marquimvfs
Member
They're paying him with shares, that's why he's upset lately.Man, I really hope Intel is paying you, because otherwise “just why.gif”…
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Zen5 Review Thread.
- Thread starter Leonidas
- Start date
Von Hugh
Member
Nah, just OP is upset that these aren't the best in idle power consumption. Because that is what matters in productivity focused CPUs on a gaming forum.
StereoVsn
Gold Member
The issue that it’s not really any better and it’s more expensive. We shall see what happens when 9800x3D and 9950x3D hit.
Haint
Member
Cause it is. A barely above average 7700X sample will outperform a 9700X in a lot of workloads due to the higher TDP and clocks. Meanwhile a cheaper 7800X3D (currently $340) will curb stomp it in gaming.
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The 9700X is going to 105W though.
Loxus
Member
Barely above is not 5× worst though.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
When its coming 2 years later and offering no real upgrade for Zen4 for most users, its abysmal.
Zen has always had nice gaming upgrades, with each new version. And now Zen5 comes out with 2-3% better gaming.
No getting around it. It's abysmal.
If Arrow Lake launches and is only 2-3% faster than Zen4 in gaming, I would say it is abysmal as well.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
On the bright side, you could be in the shitter like Intel right now. And a hot shitter to boot.
I did see what Leonidas posted earlier and those are great results for that chip. Must be a hell of a bin.
I did see what Leonidas posted earlier and those are great results for that chip. Must be a hell of a bin.
winjer
Gold Member
AMD Ryzen 9 9900X sees immediate 7% price cut in Germany post-launch - VideoCardz.com
AMD Ryzen 9 9900X now at €499: 7% below MSRP Did AMD make a quick price change, or did retailers just lower the price? Ryzen 9 9000 Series, Source: ComputerBase While Ryzen 9700X and 9600X pricing did not surprise customers in Europe, it was more or less in line with what one could expect once […]
videocardz.com
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
AMD promises Windows 11 patch boosting Zen5, Zen 4, and Zen 3 gaming performance - VideoCardz.com
AMD clarifies discrepancies in gaming performance between official data and reviews The company says that Windows patch will improve gaming performance, explains why ‘admin’ account was used for internal testing. AMD published a blog post discussing the disparity between the official gaming...
videocardz.com
I don't think its any thing special for Raptor Lake... I tested more than one Raptor Lake CPU on my rig and they produced simlilar (within error margins) low idle power numbers.
I think what's more likely is that people don't realize how efficient Raptor Lake is when doing light tasks, compared to modern Ryzen CPUs.
analog_future
Resident Crybaby
AMD promises Windows 11 patch boosting Zen5, Zen 4, and Zen 3 gaming performance - VideoCardz.com
AMD clarifies discrepancies in gaming performance between official data and reviews The company says that Windows patch will improve gaming performance, explains why ‘admin’ account was used for internal testing. AMD published a blog post discussing the disparity between the official gaming...
Cool to see we should see a boost in performance, not just on 9000 series processors but previous gen processors as well.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Yikes! HUB calling BS on AMD. I'll wait to see the testing but HUB doesn't seem to think its going to amount to much...
At the end of the day, even if the update reaches AMDs best case, it will still only match Raptor Lake in gaming. When Arrow Lake's launch is right around the corner.
winjer
Gold Member
AMD Works with Microsoft to Improve Zen 3 thru Zen 5 Performance in Windows 11 24H2
AMD Ryzen 9000 "Granite Ridge" desktop processors have been out for a couple of weeks now, and the "Zen 5" based processors have fallen short of gaming performance expectations, set mainly by some of the numbers AMD put out in its Computex 2024 reveal for the processors. The consensus among the...
AMD Clarifies Ryzen 9000 Game Benchmarks - New Windows 11 Update and Chipset Driver Will Help
AMD released a blog post to address discrepancies in Zen 5's gaming performance benchmarks following the launch of its Ryzen 9000 series. Various reviewers reported differing results, leading to confusion among users.
www.guru3d.com
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marquimvfs
Member
That's precisely what they are claiming. Extracted from their blog post:
Emphasis in "parity in gaming".
I get what you are saying, but, as of right now, Intel haven't launched their new platform yet. We will certainly be able to see some reviews when they launch, but it will be almost next year when the masses will be able to put their hands in Core U. We can only wait. Maybe it's the second coming of Jesus, or maybe it's also meh.
Like others have said in here, people are bashing Zen 5, but it's a perfectly fine platform for what it is. I, personally, see no reason to call AMD on anything besides not being a soo good upgrade in gaming, and that alone doesn't justify the level of criticism I've seeing.
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HeisenbergFX4
Gold Member
Celcius
°Temp. member
AMD Ryzen 9000X3D with 3D V-Cache now expected to launch in January - VideoCardz.com
AMD Ryzen 9000X3D reportedly launching at CES 2025, not next month as claimed earlier Not as soon as expected. New details have emerged about the upcoming Ryzen 9000X3D series, based on the Zen5 architecture and featuring additional 3D V-Cache. Contrary to earlier reports suggesting an earlier...
videocardz.com
X3D coming in January
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I wonder why AMD is being more dodgy this time than I've ever seen them. I knew their first party numbers were off because of their test setup, but they were off by even more than I was expecting.
I don't see why they didn't just delay the launch by a month or two. They should have delayed it till everything was ready, including the X870 boards.
I wonder if people inside AMD know about Arrow Lake's true performance so they decided to push this out before it was ready, in an attempt to get sales before their competitor (could) launch a better product.
This launch really has me wondering about a lot of thngs...
I don't see why they didn't just delay the launch by a month or two. They should have delayed it till everything was ready, including the X870 boards.
I wonder if people inside AMD know about Arrow Lake's true performance so they decided to push this out before it was ready, in an attempt to get sales before their competitor (could) launch a better product.
This launch really has me wondering about a lot of thngs...
My prediction of Arrow Lake taking the 2024 gaming crown increases even furtherAMD Ryzen 9000X3D with 3D V-Cache now expected to launch in January - VideoCardz.com
AMD Ryzen 9000X3D reportedly launching at CES 2025, not next month as claimed earlier Not as soon as expected. New details have emerged about the upcoming Ryzen 9000X3D series, based on the Zen5 architecture and featuring additional 3D V-Cache. Contrary to earlier reports suggesting an earlier...
X3D coming in January
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Zathalus
Member
Guess I’m waiting until January to see if anything is worth upgrading from my 13900k. I’m thinking probably not for gaming at 4k.AMD Ryzen 9000X3D with 3D V-Cache now expected to launch in January - VideoCardz.com
AMD Ryzen 9000X3D reportedly launching at CES 2025, not next month as claimed earlier Not as soon as expected. New details have emerged about the upcoming Ryzen 9000X3D series, based on the Zen5 architecture and featuring additional 3D V-Cache. Contrary to earlier reports suggesting an earlier...
X3D coming in January
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I know, and that's not good for a 2024 CPU, to only reach parity with a 2022 architecture in gaming. I thought new things were supposed to be faster, not reach the same performance as old CPUs in gaming.
All it does is make me think, damn, my ~2 year old 2022 CPU is still doing well, trading blows with a 2024 CPU.
The criticism comes from the BS marketing, which even baffled most reviewers. I've never seen a CPU that falls so short of their claims.
The criticism is justified. I'm surprised Gamers Nexus hasn't went after AMD for their marketing claims, if it were Intel who fell way short and misrepresented AMD, you can bet your ass GN would have had a multi-series investigation out by now.
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peish
Member
Zen5 problem is found
In summary, older zen cpus have some security flaws, to mitigate it on OS levels, amd gave MS the permission to constantly flush branch prediction buffers
Zen5 fixed the flaw in hardware and has also much larger forward looking branch prediction. MS old buffer flusher needed to updated!
We are back, it was all in the tools/software!
Intel shares dropped on this leak yesterday
In summary, older zen cpus have some security flaws, to mitigate it on OS levels, amd gave MS the permission to constantly flush branch prediction buffers
Zen5 fixed the flaw in hardware and has also much larger forward looking branch prediction. MS old buffer flusher needed to updated!
We are back, it was all in the tools/software!
Intel shares dropped on this leak yesterday
marquimvfs
Member
If your criticism had roots in bullshit marketing, you weren't an Intel fanboy. GN wasn't going to loose their time because there's nothing to investigate. AMD benchmarks were released, and they did their own, results compared, reviewed launched, what else did you want? An wasted series of bashing AMD just for the clicks? An coverage similar to Intel failure just because you're not happy with the results? Grow the fuck up.
Von Hugh
Member
Loxus
Member
AMD would just release the X3D variants.
winjer
Gold Member
You still don't understand that people don't care about first party benchmarks.
That's why we always want independent reviews.
But you are so obsessed with your Intel vs AMD fanboy attitude, that all you can think is about some useless powerpoint slides.
And to make it just the more hypocritical of you, let us remember that you completely ignored the issues that Intel is having with CPUs degrading, RMAs not being granted, tray CPUs not being included in the extended warranty program, the biggest loss in Intel's stock value in it's history, thousands of jobs being cut, Intel selling assets to pay it's own restructuring, tech events being cancelled to save some money, lawsuits from shareholders and consumers, and let's not forget that the powerpoint slides that Intel presented for Arrow Lake only had synthetic benchmarks and not one single game nor real world program.
Talk about grasping for straws, when the company you shill for is in so much trouble.
So what if some powerpoint slides from AMD failed the AMD by a few percent. It's the kind of crap we expect from first party numbers and why we all want independent benchmarks.
Intel has done much worse in it's history, from manipulating compilers, used a hidden chiller during a presentation to pretend their CPUs could clock higher, hired Principled technologies to falsify publish benchmarks, and so much more.
Even ARM did this a few months ago, claiming that the X1 would be better than any X86 CPU. Then it released and it was a dud, with performance failing by a big margin.
I'm going to say to you, something I have told you many times already, what matters are the independent benchmarks.
What matters are independent, verifiable, third party reviews.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
And those don't match up with the 1st party numbers. Why can't AMD just admit that they were wrong, and that their numbers were misleading, and update the numbers to something more realistic...
winjer
Gold Member
Because they are always wrong. Be it from AMD, Intel, Nvidia, ARM, Apple, QUALCOMM, etc.
These companies always pad their numbers. I've been following tech for over 2 decades, so I already expect it, every time. And why I repeat so many times that we need independent reviews.
You need to stop being so naïve, and just distrust all these first party powerpoint slides.
But at least this time we got a positive note, because a bug in Windows was found and when fixed, will bring a bit extra performance.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Scott "we're going to kick Nvidia's fucking ass" Herkleman at least came out and said that they missed the mark when AMDs internal numbers were off.
Why can't they just come out and do the same here?
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winjer
Gold Member
Because it doesn't matter. What matters are the independent benchmarks. Always, the f****** independent benchmarks.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
The marketing numbers do matter to a degree as they set expectations, and reviewers always test against them to see if they misrepresent the product, which AMD has done here...
winjer
Gold Member
Only for people that are too naïve to understand that these powerpoint slides are always padded.
But now I ask you how do you deal with this case.
Intel claims in their powerpoint slides that Lion Cove has a 14% IPC improvement. With only synthetic benchmarks. One of them is made by Intel.
But in the thread you created, you said that you expect a 5% improvement for single core. Do you trust Intel numbers or not.
Why didn't you say a 14% improvement, like Intel claims?
In my case, my answer is very simple, I never trust these powerpoint slides.
I always wait for independent reviews.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
A lot of AMD fans fall in that camp. I see a lot of AMD fans disappointed that AMD basically lied to them about the performance of these products.
This could have been avoided if AMD had been a bit more honest with their numbers.
winjer
Gold Member
It doesn't matter. Neither Intel, nor AMD fanboys.
And you didn't say how you deal with Intel's claim that Lion Core will improve by 14%, while you say it's going to improve by 5%.
Who is wrong, you or Intel? And do you put any stock into results from only synthetic benchmarks?
Von Hugh
Member
Good job in ignoring 90 % of the points winjer's post just had.
You truly are an 10/10 Intel shill. Ignore the facts, cherrypick the positives of Intel and negatives of AMD, rinse and repeat.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
Even if one person falls for the numbers, it does matter. And lots of AMD fans fell for it.
Intel never published gaming results for Arrow Lake. I'll compare the reviews to Intel's 1st party when they publish them, as reviewers will do.
I don't recall saying its going to improve by 5%. If I did, that was a prediction. Just like my prediction that Arrow Lake will (probably) beat Zen5 in gaming.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
It would be nice if AMD stopped grasping at straws and face the reality that the CPUs did not perform as they said, and for AMD to come out and say that they will do better next time (like Scott Herkleman did with the 7900XTX). And for them to actually, do better next time. That is what I would like to see.
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winjer
Gold Member
You concern for the AMD fanboys is truly heart-warming.
You voted on the 5% performance improvement, on the thread that you created. Unless you have gone there and change it.
But you still haven't answered my question. Do you think Intel is lying with their IPC claim?
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
An IPC number from many non-gaming scenarios does not translate to gaming performance, that type of thinking is why your CPU gaming predictions are always so far off, with you predicting Zen5 as being 20-30% faster than Zen4, before we knew the final IPC.
winjer
Gold Member
We were all wrong. Remember you voted 10-15%. Which is basically what AMD had in their PowerPoint slides.
Does that make you now an AMD fanboy?
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I just never thought AMD would release a CPU in 2024 that performed worse in gaming than Intel did in 2022. I did not think about IPC.
winjer
Gold Member
Well that's because you trust too much in powerpoint slides.
You still don't believe in me when I say that what matters are independent reviews.
You are too fixated in tech companies powerpoint slides.
On the other hand, AMD did not make a CPU for gamers, it made a CPU for AI, workstations and servers.
And in those markets, there are +30% performance improvements over Zen4.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I was the first on this forum to call BS on AMDs slides, so I'm not sure how you can say that.
And I got tons of shit for it, despite being right...
winjer
Gold Member
You got tons of shit because you claimed that only AMD slides were wrong.
Leonidas
AMD's Dogma: ARyzen (No Intel inside)
I knew AMDs slides were wrong because they blatantly skewed the results with their testing method.
If Intel does it with Arrow Lake I'll call them out too.
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