Zen5 Review Thread.

No, I can load up 4 different BIOSes and get 4 different power results at factory default settings.

Different versions of the BIOS?
How much difference did you see between them?
Could it be because of the mitigations against cpu degradation?
 
Different versions of the BIOS?
How much difference did you see between them?
Could it be because of the mitigations against cpu degradation?
Yes... full MT load examples I've seen.

180w, 210w, 145w, 155w , all at factory defaults, but differenct BIOS versions.

Could it be because of the mitigations against cpu degradation?
I haven't checked the very latest, but the first mitigation one added about 10w from the prior one (under full MT load), which occured well before the stability issue patches came in.

What a mess this launch has been!

And sorry I ignored your thread Leonidas Leonidas .
:messenger_blowing_kiss:
 
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Yes... full MT load examples I've seen.

180w, 210w, 145w, 155w


I haven't checked the very latest, but the first mitigation one added about 10w from the prior one, which occured well before the stability issue patches came in.

That is a lot of variance.
I have done a few bios updates with my 5800x3d and power usage in ycruncher was always inside margin of error. Around 110w.

Are you sure there wasn't something turned on or off, that could cause that difference.
Or maybe different power profiles.
 
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Zen5 was not made for us, the gamers. We are third class citizens in this day and age.
All improvements were made for servers, workstations and AI.


geometric-mean-of-machine-learning-tests-result-composite-ar99r99lpb.svgz


geometric-mean-of-hpc-high-performance-computing-tests-result-composite-ar99r99lpb.svgz


geometric-mean-of-cryptography-tests-result-composite-ar99r99lpb.svgz


geometric-mean-of-creator-workloads-tests-result-composite-ar99r99lpb.svgz


geometric-mean-of-all-test-results-result-composite-ar99r99lpb.svgz

This is more in line with what was expected performance wise. Is it possible that it's due to windows vs linux or just gaming workloads in general ? (or combination of both)
 
Is next gen for Intel supposed to include AVX512, or is Intel going to stick with their dumb policy of separating that into "professional" products?

Intel is adding AVX10 to their next CPUs.
And their plan is to eventually have a 512bit path with AVX10.2
But no word as to when that will happen.
 
Are you sure there wasn't something turned on or off, that could cause that difference.
Or maybe different power profiles.
I'm 1000% sure. Check this, even Tech Powerup has similar data.

13600K launch Blender 187w
power-multithread.png


13600K 2-years later in Blender 139w

power-multithread.png


Almost 50 watts difference.
 
Again with anecdotal evidence...
Check the post above you, smarty pants, explain to me how Techpowerup went from 187w in 13600K launch review to 139w today in 13600K blender load, pretty sure they're seeing the same thing I did, the new BIOS use a lot less power than before...
 
Check the post above you, smarty pants, explain to me how Techpowerup went from 187w in 13600K launch review to 139w today in 13600K blender load, pretty sure they're seeing the same thing I did, the new BIOS use a lot less power than before...
My bad. Answered before reading the whole thread. Sorry about that. Also, there's some more happening in those charts. Some processors increased consumption, others decreased.
 
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So is 7800x3D still the best one to get?
By far, basically only cpu worth getting if u got enough cash to pair it with high/top end gpu or u wanna futureprof urself till next gen consoles (u will be safe at least till 2028+ crossgen period of 2years=2030).
 
I think they just had different design goals of servers and laptops and not gaming. Failed at marketing though.
If their goal was server gainz then why launch desktop version at under 5% perfromance increase avg(often perf decrease) and rise price by 40%? Those fkers wanted to squeeze out cash from their own fanboys w/o any reason.
Even nvidia isnt as nasty coz at least their 4090 even tho overpriced af, at least is top dog and by a solid margin both in raster and even more in rt perf, here with zen 5 we get nothing.
 


z1Y4sON.png


Basically, a 4% improvement for Zen5, if we bypass the Windows bug with Admin rights.
Microsoft never fails to screw up. Make me wonder how much performance we are all losing, because of not yet known bugs with Windows.
 
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Funny to see the excuses looking back, I wonder when fanboys will reach acceptance...

but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but SMT off... no one is turning SMT off, on P-core only CPUs which will lose massive performance in many apps, to maybe gain a % or two in gaming, when the same platform already has much better gaming CPUs.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...

Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
 
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Funny to see the excuses looking back, I wonder when fanboys will reach acceptance...

but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...

Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
Last hope for what? Intel is the company in deep shit right now across almost the entire product stack they offer. Their consumer sentiment has also taken a massive nose dive. Arrow Lake leaks don't paint a picture of massive performance gains either. Consumer desktop CPUs is the only segment where they offer some form of competition.
 
Last hope for Zen5 having a meaningful upgrade over Zen4.

So far AM5 upgrade path has not really been impressive at all.
It's not a good upgrade if you are only into gaming. If AVX512, power consumption, and AI are things you are interested in then it's a pretty good upgrade. It's clear the focus was on servers and mobile.
 
It's not a good upgrade if you are only into gaming. If AVX512, power consumption, and AI are things you are interested in then it's a pretty good upgrade. It's clear the focus was on servers and mobile.
Power consumption is a concern for me. > 1/2 my PC use is web browsing and ebook reading, where even Raptor Lake is probably more efficient, since Intel CPUs are able to go to a lower power state in light usage scenarios.

power-idle.png

Any efficiency I lose in high power workloads will be gained back by the time spent browsing and doing light tasks.
 
Funny to see the excuses looking back, I wonder when fanboys will reach acceptance...

but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but SMT off... no one is turning SMT off, on P-core only CPUs which will lose massive performance in many apps, to maybe gain a % or two in gaming, when the same platform already has much better gaming CPUs.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...

Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
I use Linux. There are less and less reasons to use Windows these days. The only thing I use windows for is games that won't work with Proton. What kind of fucked up OS needs an Admin account or run in Admin mode to get best performance. I mean, What?!?!?
 
Power consumption is a concern for me. > 1/2 my PC use is web browsing and ebook reading, where even Raptor Lake is probably more efficient, since Intel CPUs are able to go to a lower power state in light usage scenarios.

power-idle.png

Any efficiency I lose in high power workloads will be gained back by the time spent browsing and doing light tasks.
Idle efficiency is mostly useless for the use cases I mentioned. Your PC would need to spend something like 80% of the time in idle for it to make up the difference anyway.
 
Idle efficiency is mostly useless for the use cases I mentioned. Your PC would need to spend something like 80% of the time in idle for it to make up the difference anyway.
But its useful for my use cases of web-browsing, ebook reading, light office, word proccessing, etc. Things that I do a lot.

The power difference between full idle and web-browsing/ebook reading/light office/word processing, etc. for me is miniscule, still probably lower on Raptor Lake than any modern Zen CPU.
 
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Idle efficiency is mostly useless for the use cases I mentioned. Your PC would need to spend something like 80% of the time in idle for it to make up the difference anyway.
Also I'd like to point out, the highest CPU power task I do is video rendering. Its not something I do every day, not even every week. And rendering a video takes less than 10 minutes of maximum power, so I'm probably using maximum CPU power maybe 0.1% of the time. I don't know the exact number but its way less than 20% of the time where my CPU is at full tilt.

I can say for sure, the majority of the time my PC is in a low power state, with the various tasks I mentioned previously.

And I game at 120 FPS max, where efficiency differences of CPUs is unlikely to be all that different.

TPU for example shows Zen5 using anywhere from 15 watts less, to 25 watts more (on average) than 13600K in gaming, which even in the best case isn't enough to make up for Zen5s higher idle power, but they are testing at frame-rates higher than my limit, which is unrealistic for my setup.

When the FPS is locked to 120 FPS, the difference in gaming CPU power is probably miniscule with Zen5 vs. Raptor Lake.
 
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I use Linux. There are less and less reasons to use Windows these days. The only thing I use windows for is games that won't work with Proton. What kind of fucked up OS needs an Admin account or run in Admin mode to get best performance. I mean, What?!?!?
Yeah, there is no way in hell anyone should be using that option to get a few extra frames. Already MS advises people to turn off memory protection.
 
Am I the only one who do not care about power usage???? Maybe because I live in Quebec and electricity is dirt cheap here
I mean it depends, right? If we are talking up to 200 watt, then it's manageable. If we have CPUs like Intel 14900k go and use almost 400w, then that's ridiculous.
 
I mean it depends, right? If we are talking up to 200 watt, then it's manageable. If we have CPUs like Intel 14900k go and use almost 400w, then that's ridiculous.
It only does that if you remove power limits.

Zen5 is also not efficient when you remove power limits and allow the CPU to use a lot more power.
 
Am I the only one who do not care about power usage???? Maybe because I live in Quebec and electricity is dirt cheap here
I don't care about power usage but I am totally off grid solar powered
Funny to see the excuses looking back, I wonder when fanboys will reach acceptance...

but the MSRP... MSRP comparisons are useless, Zen4 reached much better value, ages ago.
but the efficiency... my 13600K saw bigger efficiency gains in a BIOS update.
but Linux... no one uses Linux.
but SMT off... no one is turning SMT off, on P-core only CPUs which will lose massive performance in many apps, to maybe gain a % or two in gaming, when the same platform already has much better gaming CPUs.
but the Windows bug... Intel CPUs see improved performance in games from running in Administrator mode as well, this was known long ago.
but Zen5 3D...

Seems Zen5 3D is the last hope.
Episode 5 Reaction GIF by The Office
 
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