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[ryutaro's mama]

Zenyatta....?

It's pretty clear that poster doesn't respect her enough to post her actual name.

#theyallsoundalike

 

[bananafactory]

Has this news hit the big mainstream media yet or is this shitshow going to get worse when more people find out?

 

[Scrooge McDuck]

Yes, but the flipside isn't "I prefer the red hair" which I've said I agree with. That's an understandable take. It's "without red hair, it's not Mary Jane", which is a perplexing take for any adaptation. It's not a defining facet of the character and like many other adapted heroes, visual and even character resists change all the time.

Aa yes, alright. From that point of view, I agree completely.

Because 'Spider-Man' is literally the costume, otherwise it's just Peter Parker. Thats why people care about what it looks like.

Mary Jane is an actual person, the visual details of her are relatively insignificant

I must admit I don't really understand this. To me Spider-Man and Peter Parker is interchangeable, and that costume he wears is just a costume he wears. Just like Mary Jane's hair is just Mary Jane's hair.

 

[Dai101]

What happened?

IT was the usual stupidity you can get from those kind of threads until this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214142916&postcount=1443

Fuck everything.

 

[lightskintwin]

They'll be mad if it's done right.

LOL This. It reminds me of what Chris Rock said about the Jackie Robinson movie.

"If you make a civil rights movie, and white people like it; it's not a good movie".

 

[Htown]

Not this shit again...How about we make Luke Cage asian and Black Panther a white guy instead. That's okay right?
Nothing against Zenyatta, I'm just sometimes sick of corporate decisions of disregarding the idea of being a faithful to the source material just because of whatever reasons.

What you posted right here is really stupid, and that's about all the time I'm willing to spend on this post.

 

[Teletraan1]

Okay. I think if a character's hair color is a big part of their identity, then they're probably a paper thin character. I mean you could probably exclude Aquaman from that list because you could do some interesting things with the prejudices that cultures create but DC ain't touching that shit.

Who decides what is and isn't a "defining trait." You mention Liz Allen, so what makes her situation different? Because there are other blonde in the comics? Because blondes are more common? Because people don't care about the character as much? Because they've consistently been portrayed in the comics that way and people want rigid adaptations of looks? What is it?

The original MJ was fashioned after Ann-Margret. Who was also known for her red hair yet was a natural brunette and only started dying her hair red at the beginning of her career. So the circle is now complete.

 

[Nesotenso]

Because 'Spider-Man' is literally the costume, otherwise it's just Peter Parker. Thats why people care about what it looks like.

Mary Jane is an actual person, the visual details of her are relatively insignificant

I would like to think that the visual details of one of the most important members Spidey's cast is pretty important, particularly if it is a distinct feature that identifies her in popular culture.

 

[bananafactory]

I must admit I don't really understand this. To me Spider-Man and Peter Parker is interchangeable, and that costume he wears is just a costume he wears. Just like Mary Jane's hair is just Mary Jane's hair.

Yes but the post I quoted was comparing nitpicking details on a costume to nitpicking visual traits of a person.

My argument was that a costume is by definition entirely visual, so it's fair game, whereas a person is...well, a person. They are different.

I would like to think that the visual details of one of the most important members Spidey's cast is pretty important, particularly if it is a distinct feature that identifies her in popular culture.

Beyond 'being attractive' which I accept as being important to the role MJ has traditionally played in Spider-Man stories, I don't think it is. The MCU is already simply an interpretation of the comics and not a literal translation. Nick Fury is black, Scarlett Witch isn't a mutant, a brown haired MJ isn't any crazier than those.

 

[LilWayneSuckz]

Her hair color is a central part of her character lmfao just say you wish she were white

I've read 15 pages of this thread and this sounds like what all the "change her hair color" amounts to IMO.

I know this movie is based on a comic book character but they don't literally have to copy every cell of the comic books in order to make the movie.

Zendaya will be great and hopefully the Marvel/Sony studio execs do the Mary Jane character justice.

 

[Exploratory]

Point being that most objections are from people that would struggle to name a single other defining trait that is integral to the character besides being Peter's fixtion. But you already know this.

I don't care about any of that. I'm saying her red hair is an integral part of her character unlike many other physical characteristics of tons of other characters. I'm not saying she has to be white and I don't care what race she is.

Just give her red hair it ain't hard. Why piss people off? If you're okay with this but you don't like the look of Lex Luthor in BvS you're a huge hypocrite.

 

[IntelliHeath]

I thought it was an interesting take on Modern New York City so it's going to be fun to watch the movie with more diverse cast. I wonder if we are going to see same meltdown as we did with Annie.

It's a conspiracy to wipe out gingers from pop culture

You still have Black Widow.

 

[ShockingAlberto]

What if the movie changed details about things from a comic book from the 70s

 

[excelsiorlef]

Not this shit again...How about we make Luke Cage asian and Black Panther a white guy instead. That's okay right?
Nothing against Zenyatta, I'm just sometimes sick of corporate decisions of disregarding the idea of being a faithful to the source material just because of whatever reasons.

Bolded basically describes your post.

 

[Plywood]

It's pretty clear that poster doesn't respect her enough to post her actual name.

#theyallsoundalike

She's gonna help Spiderman beat the villain when she uses her orb of discord, but she needs to do it before Blizzard makes the patch live and not just on the PTR servers.

Spoiler

i tried

Spoiler

no i didn't

 

[guek]

Okay. I think if a character's hair color is a big part of their identity, then they're probably a paper thin character. I mean you could probably exclude Aquaman from that list because you could do some interesting things with the prejudices that cultures create but DC ain't touching that shit.

Who decides what is and isn't a "defining trait." You mention Liz Allen, so what makes her situation different? Because there are other blonde in the comics? Because blondes are more common? Because people don't care about the character as much? Because they've consistently been portrayed in the comics that way and people want rigid adaptations of looks? What is it?

The character's history determines defining traits. Mary Jane and Jean Grey being redheads have always been defining characteristics for both of them. The same goes for the color of Scott Summers' eye blasts or Beast's blue fur or Xavier's bald head or Superman wearing red and blue or Cyborg being black etc. etc.

This doesn't mean these characters absolutely can't work without these traits but you are losing a part of what makes them iconic when you make changes. It doesn't make them paper thin just because they have defining physical characteristics. Comics are a visual medium, of course their appearance is going to help define them.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

So many people in this thread are very transparent with their...um, hair concern...smh.

 

[Bluekaveli]

IT was the usual stupidity you can get from those kind of threads until this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214142916&postcount=1443

Fuck everything.

Welp I'm out

 

[Sorcerer]

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/t/the-police/album-zenyatta-mondatta.jpg

Zenyatta....?

 

[Spinluck]

How about we make Luke Cage asian

How about we don't

and Black Panther a white guy instead. That's okay right?

Nope, seeing how he's African royalty and born in Africa it wouldn't make sense. Not remotely the same.

Nothing against Zenyatta

Her name is Zendaya, you can stop crying now.

I'm just sometimes sick of corporate decisions of disregarding the idea of being a faithful to the source material just because of whatever reasons.

Those fucking disrespectful cunts at Marvel casting a Brit as Matt Murdock/DD. How dare they, fucking hacks. A black Mary Jane oh great, Marvel just doesn't care. This girl will never live up to the prestigious character in the comic, and Dunst's iconic performance from the Raimi movies... At least she was white with red hair though...

 

[KingBroly]

No S-curl was bullshit tbh, but Snyder has so many sins that people were distracted.

Actually there's so much wrong with the DCEU that it shouldn't really be used as anything but a cautionary tale.

They probably did what they did at the end of BvS to reboot Superman. That's my theory, anyway.

 

[Dereck]

What you posted right here is really stupid, and that's about all the time I'm willing to spend on this post.

lmao

 

[melonrabbit]

The character's history determines defining traits. Mary Jane and Jean Grey being redheads have always been defining characteristics for both of them. The same goes for the color of Scott Summers' eye blasts or Beast's blue fur or Xavier's bald head or Superman wearing red and yellow or Cyborg being black etc. etc.

This doesn't mean these characters absolutely can't work without these traits but you are losing a part of what makes them iconic when you make changes. It doesn't make them paper thin just because they have defining physical characteristics. Comics are a visual medium, of course their appearance is going to help define them.

Wolverine is supposed to be short. A plucky Aussie who does theater could never work.

MJ is supposed to the dream girl. This Peter likes some diversity. Also black and brown people can have red hair.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

"What if they made Black Panther white?!" can take it's rightful place alongside "I bet if I made a White Entertainment Television I'd be called a racist!", "When's White History Month?!?" and "#AllLivesMatter" in the stupid bullshit lexicon.

 

[Sorcerer]

I'm on board. Can't say I have seen her act, but she is gorgeous. Spidey is iconic but he has been through changes, can't see why Mary Jane has to stay the same. This is coming from someone who loves redheads.
The contrast between her hotness and his nerdiness is going to be awesome.

Her recent Cosmo cover I couldn't help noticing in supermarkets:

 

[ryutaro's mama]

Those fucking disrespectful cunts at Marvel casting a Brit as Matt Murdock/DD. How dare they, fucking hacks. A black Mary Jane oh great, Marvel just doesn't care. This girl will never live up to the prestigious character in the comic, and Dunst's iconic performance from the Raimi movies... At least she was white with red hair though...

Yeah, Zendaya actually looks like a model...it always struck me as odd that Dunst just looked like a girl next door. Part of the mythos of MJ is that she is knockout gorgeous, right?

Let's ignore that and pretend to obsess over her fucking hair color...

 

[bananafactory]

you hit the jackpot Tiger

 

[NightShift]

Not this shit again...How about we make Luke Cage asian and Black Panther a white guy instead. That's okay right?
Nothing against Zenyatta, I'm just sometimes sick of corporate decisions of disregarding the idea of being a faithful to the source material just because of whatever reasons.

Embrace tranquillity.

you hit the jackpot Tiger

Already better than Kristen Dunst.

 

[Nesotenso]

Beyond 'being attractive' which I accept as being important to the role MJ has traditionally played in Spider-Man stories, I don't think it is. The MCU is already simply an interpretation of the comics and not a literal translation. Nick Fury is black, Scarlett Witch isn't a mutant, a brown haired MJ isn't any crazier than those.

neither Fury or Witch have the cultural cachet that MJ has. Witch and QS origin change has more to do with movie rights. Fury was based on Ultimate and because of they movies they introduced a horrid retcon with a stupid crossover event into the books

 

[TwEE-N-Toast]

People wanting MJ to have a red hair job is really setting some people off.

 

[excelsiorlef]

The character's history determines defining traits. Mary Jane and Jean Grey being redheads have always been defining characteristics for both of them. The same goes for the color of Scott Summers' eye blasts or Beast's blue fur or Xavier's bald head or Superman wearing red and blue or Cyborg being black etc. etc.

This doesn't mean these characters absolutely can't work without these traits but you are losing a part of what makes them iconic when you make changes. It doesn't make them paper thin just because they have defining physical characteristics. Comics are a visual medium, of course their appearance is going to help define them.

It took what 3 X-Men movies for young Xavier to go bald?

 

[J@hranimo]

IT was the usual stupidity you can get from those kind of threads until this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214142916&postcount=1443

Fuck everything.

Yo WTF is with that pic and that post?

Spoiler

I mean they didn't even quote it like it's big as shit rip mobilegaf

That's too bad this thread got derailed though.

 

[bananafactory]

neither Fury or Witch have the cultural cachet that MJ has. Witch and QS origin change has more to do with movie rights. Fury was based on Ultimate and because of they movies they introduced a horrid retcon with a stupid crossover event into the books

If MJ is such a weakass character that her hair colour is *actually* THAT important, then she's not even worthy all of this debate to begin with

We're going to have to agree to disagree, then

 

[guek]

Wolverine is supposed to be short. A plucky Aussie who does theater could never work.

MJ is supposed to the dream girl. This Peter likes some diversity. Also black and brown people can have red hair.

Dude, I never said it can't work. Of course it can work.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

It took what 3 X-Men movies for young Xavier to go bald?

Well, that doesn't count cause we knew he would eventually be bald!

😐

 

[DontBeThatGuy]

IT was the usual stupidity you can get from those kind of threads until this

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=214142916&postcount=1443

Fuck everything.

I never went into that thread, but that's the road it went down? Racists really do have the worst taste.

 

[melonrabbit]

you hit the jackpot Tiger

And we're done here.

Glorious.

 

[SporeCrawler]

The Original waifu.. MJ>>>> Gwen

Already better than Kristen Dunst.

Kirsten Dunst will always be original MJ to me.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

People wanting MJ to have a red hair job is really setting some people off.

People hiding behind their want for MJ to have red hair (to try and mask their true agenda in regards to this MJ) is setting some people off.

 

[Heshinsi]

We talking about the girl from the acne treatment commercials? She looks pretty white to me, but maybe has some mixed races in her genes

No she doesn't. She clearly looks like a visible minority. Seriously, is your threshold for looking "white" simply anyone with a somewhat lighter skin tone? lol

 

[Nesotenso]

If MJ is such a weakass character that her hair colour is *actually* THAT important, then she's not even worthy all of this debate to begin with

We're going to have to agree to disagree, then

it is an identifying trait which makes MJ, MJ along with the characters' personality. It is not hard to fathom why for fans visual identifiers might be important when the source medium itself a visual one.

 

[MHWilliams]

Just give her red hair it ain't hard. Why piss people off? If you're okay with this but you don't like the look of Lex Luthor in BvS you're a huge hypocrite.

Luthor with hair in BvS was the least of that character's problems. Luthor begins Eisenberg, also not a huge problem. Luthor having no consistent character or motivation was ultimately the issue. See also: Kevin Spacey.

But hey, perhaps they'll give her red highlights.

The character's history determines defining traits. Mary Jane and Jean Grey being redheads have always been defining characteristics for both of them. The same goes for the color of Scott Summers' eye blasts or Beast's blue fur or Xavier's bald head or Superman wearing red and blue or Cyborg being black etc. etc.

This doesn't mean these characters absolutely can't work without these traits but you are losing a part of what makes them iconic when you make changes. It doesn't make them paper thin just because they have defining physical characteristics. Comics are a visual medium, of course their appearance is going to help define them.

Xavier survived just fine with hair. Magneto worked fine without white hair.

Much like in those cases, what people are saying is losing these traits doesn't matter if the film creates compelling characters. The characters themselves, again... see Scarlet Witch, are rather malleable.

 

[guek]

It took what 3 X-Men movies for young Xavier to go bald?

This is a bad example seeing as how First Class was in-universe with the other movies so you knew he'd be bald eventually. The movie even makes a joke about it.

Hugh Jackman is probably the best example of a casting that forgoes one of the most recognizable classic traits of a character with good results. It helps though that even though he's supposed to be short in the comics, artist depictions vary wildly.

Much like in those cases, what people are saying is losing these traits doesn't matter if the film creates compelling characters.

I'm not saying anything different >_<

A good MJ will be good regardless of her hair color. That doesn't mean a fan is wrong for wishing a movie better represented the source material. That desire also doesn't mean it's wrong for a movie to try something different as long as the execution holds up. People can have opinions on aesthetics!

 

[bananafactory]

it is an identifying trait which makes MJ, MJ along with her characters' personality. It is not hard to fathom why for fans visual identifiers might be important when the source medium itself a visual one.

Of course I understand they're important. I am also saying they have no bearing on the quality of the film or the portrayal of the character, and that a reaction beyond simply "Huh, kinda disappointing if she's not a redhead" is, in my opinion, an overreaction

 

[Ninja Scooter]

We talking about the girl from the acne treatment commercials? She looks pretty white to me, but maybe has some mixed races in her genes

Dafuq is going on in this thread?!?

 

[excelsiorlef]

Well, that doesn't count cause we knew he would eventually be bald!

&#128528;

And God knows hair dye doesn't exist in Queens heh.

XD

 

[bananafactory]

I kinda wish they had cast a black Peter now, just for the tears.

 

[ryutaro's mama]

it is an identifying trait which makes MJ, MJ along with her characters' personality. It is not hard to fathom why for fans visual identifiers might be important when the source medium itself a visual one.

And yet, Dunst was a strawberry blonde and no one cared. Hell, Dallas Bryce Howard was a deeper red head than Dunst.

Somehow, we can look at this vision of Spider-man being unconventional, the casting of Marisa Tomei as Aunt May and shrug it off as "Aunt Bae" but Zendaya is cast as MJ and we obsess over her gotdamn hair color.

Unbelievable.

 

[excelsiorlef]

This is a bad example seeing as how First Class was in-universe with the other movies so you knew he'd be bald eventually. The movie even makes a joke about it.

Hugh Jackman is probably the best example of a casting that forgoes one of the most recognizable classic traits of a character with good results. It helps though that even though he's supposed to be short in the comics, artist depictions vary wildly.



I'm not saying anything different >_<

A good MJ will be good regardless of her hair color. That doesn't mean a fan is wrong for wishing a movie better represented the source material. That desire also doesn't mean it's wrong for a movie to try something different as long as the execution holds up. People can have opinions on aesthetics!

She can literally dye her hair at some point in the next three movies

 

[Bluekaveli]

you hit the jackpot Tiger

She's so beautiful,glad we're shaking it up