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Zendaya's role in SPIDER-MAN: HOMECOMING has been revealed!

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A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
It still kind of boggles my mind how there are so many people who can't grasp the difference between a character whose identity is inextricably linked to their racial culture (Black Panther, Luke Cage, even Iron Fist to a reasonable degree), and a character who just happens to be white because most characters are white and they could easily be any other race (pretty much everyone related to Spider-Man)
 
T

The Cretan

Member
When you support a character's change of race or gender or personality in his transition to film (which is totally fine if you do), then you have to support every change, even if the change is black to white or woman to man or something else. Racism is when you discriminate someone based on his skin colour, his gender etc. When you say that a black character can't be played by a white person, but a white character can be played by a black person, this is a discrimination. Also, I understand the "minorities aren't represented as much as white people on holywood" argument, but discrimination is still discrimination.
 
T

Tansut

Member
Exploratory said:
Okay moving beyond the whole racist people exist and hate this for racist reasons let me ask you all a question.

Is it okay to eliminate the fact that Mary Jane is a ginger from her character. She's literally the most iconic ginger in comic books. You aren't changing Gwen Stay, Lois Lane, etc etc these are all generic white people. You're getting rid of the #1 ginger.

And you might say I'm okay with getting rid of gingers in film (which I'm not okay with but okay you're a terrible person) but BLACK PEOPLE CAN BE GINGERS TOO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/photographs-redheads-of-color_us_55db9929e4b0a40aa3abf017

People of mixed race, people who would be considered "black" in America can be natural red heads. Leave your preconceived notions at the door people.

This shit pisses me off to no end man. You guys need to take a look at yourselves. People get so caught up in the odd racist and jump on it.
Click to expand...
I love gingers, but I don't think anyone thinks of them as having a plight remotely similar to a minority group. They're just really rare because red hair is a recessive trait.
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
The Cretan said:
When you support a character's change of race or gender or personality in his transition to film (which is totally fine if you do), then you have to support every change, even if the change is black to white or woman to man or something else. Racism is when you discriminate someone based on his skin colour, his gender etc. When you say that a black character can't be played by a white person, but a white character can be played by a black person, this is a discrimination. Also, I understand the "minorities aren't represented as much as white people on holywood" argument, but discrimination is still discrimination.
Click to expand...
Poor white people :(
 
J

jmood88

Member
The Cretan said:
When you support a character's change of race or gender or personality in his transition to film (which is totally fine if you do), then you have to support every change, even if the change is black to white or woman to man or something else. Racism is when you discriminate someone based on his skin colour, his gender etc. When you say that a black character can't be played by a white person, but a white character can be played by a black person, this is a discrimination. Also, I understand the "minorities aren't represented as much as white people on holywood" argument, but discrimination is still discrimination.
Click to expand...
I don't know you so before I respond I have to ask if this is a joke or not
 
E

Exploratory

Banned
GAMEPROFF said:
Maybe they just found no actress who fitted.
Click to expand...

We do live in a world where changing your hair color is possible thankfully. We do indeed have the technology.

I'm just saying how can you not want this? This would be awesome.

MC1R_DSC_2993.jpg
Click to expand...

That's REAL diversity.
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Exploratory said:
We do live in a world where changing your hair color is possible thankfully. We do indeed have the technology.

I'm just saying how can you not want this? This would be awesome.



That's REAL diversity.
Click to expand...
Good then that she can and will most likely dye her hair, right?

My point stands. What if they just didnt found a black ginger actress? Pardon my ignorance, but until 10 minutes ago I didnt even know that this was possible. Pretty sure its not that common and this makes finding an actress not that easy.

Sorry, I consider feeling beeing discriminated because of the hair color as stupid as left handed feeling discriminated because most things are conceptet for right handed people.

The Cretan said:
So, discrimination is just if the person who gets discriminated is white. Do you find that right or not?
.
Click to expand...
No, but I think arguments with "it goes booth ways, when white character are changed into blacks thats bad, too!" Are super stupid. Talking about white privilege.
 
X

Xun

Member
Exploratory said:
Okay moving beyond the whole racist people exist and hate this for racist reasons let me ask you all a question.

Is it okay to eliminate the fact that Mary Jane is a ginger from her character. She's literally the most iconic ginger in comic books. You aren't changing Gwen Stay, Lois Lane, etc etc these are all generic white people. You're getting rid of the #1 ginger.

And you might say I'm okay with getting rid of gingers in film (which I'm not okay with but okay you're a terrible person) but BLACK PEOPLE CAN BE GINGERS TOO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/photographs-redheads-of-color_us_55db9929e4b0a40aa3abf017

People of mixed race, people who would be considered "black" in America can be natural red heads. Leave your preconceived notions at the door people.

This shit pisses me off to no end man. You guys need to take a look at yourselves. People get so caught up in the odd racist and jump on it.
Click to expand...
Perhaps in the MCU she'll say she dyes her hair brunette?
 
S

Skilletor

Member
The Cretan said:
When you support a character's change of race or gender or personality in his transition to film (which is totally fine if you do), then you have to support every change, even if the change is black to white or woman to man or something else. Racism is when you discriminate someone based on his skin colour, his gender etc. When you say that a black character can't be played by a white person, but a white character can be played by a black person, this is a discrimination. Also, I understand the "minorities aren't represented as much as white people on holywood" argument, but discrimination is still discrimination.
Click to expand...

This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this site. I don't have to support "every change" because some changes don't make sense.

Changing Iron Fist, Black Panther, or Luke Cage's race matters to the story. Changing Mary Jane's does not.

The Cretan said:
So, discrimination is just if the person who gets discriminated is white. Do you find that right or not?


No, it's not a joke.
Click to expand...

Who is being discriminated against here?
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
GAMEPROFF said:
Good then that she can and will most likely dye her hair, right?

My point stands. What if they just didnt found a black ginger actress? Pardon my ignorance, but until 10 minutes ago I didnt even know that this was possible.

Sorry, I consider feeling beeing discriminated because of the hair color as stupid as left handed feeling discriminated because most things are conceptet for right handed people.
Click to expand...
I mean, maybe. But the movie is already shooting and there are pictures of her on set without red hair. Maybe she'll dye it half way through the movie, but that seems like an unnecessary step when they could have just had her be a red head from the get go.
 
K

Kelsdesu

Member
Some of that Ghoshtbuster crowd in here I see...

Anyway, Dunst was and is still bad, but Zendaya that new hotness for a new generation of young people.

It will be fine all is well based Marvel.
 
G

GAMEPROFF

Banned
Zen_Arcade said:
I mean, maybe. But the movie is already shooting and there are pictures of her on set without red hair. Maybe she'll dye it half way through the movie, but that seems like an unnecessary step when they could have just had her be a red head from the get go.
Click to expand...
Pretty sure the prom night scene everyone speculates about isnt shot outdoor.
Also, wigs exist.
 
J

Jest Chillin

Member
Exploratory said:
Okay moving beyond the whole racist people exist and hate this for racist reasons let me ask you all a question.

Is it okay to eliminate the fact that Mary Jane is a ginger from her character. She's literally the most iconic ginger in comic books. You aren't changing Gwen Stay, Lois Lane, etc etc these are all generic white people. You're getting rid of the #1 ginger.

And you might say I'm okay with getting rid of gingers in film (which I'm not okay with but okay you're a terrible person) but BLACK PEOPLE CAN BE GINGERS TOO.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/photographs-redheads-of-color_us_55db9929e4b0a40aa3abf017

People of mixed race, people who would be considered "black" in America can be natural red heads. Leave your preconceived notions at the door people.

This shit pisses me off to no end man. You guys need to take a look at yourselves. People get so caught up in the odd racist and jump on it.
Click to expand...

Archie is more iconic a ginger in comics than MJ. He's at least a main character. I'm not certain that MJ would even be that well known if not for the 90s cartoon (I.e. people not knowing who Gwen Stacy was when ASM came out).

But your overall point that she could be a redhead is accurate. If they did or do that, cool. If not, cool. It isn't that important in the grand scheme though.
 
Y

Yeezus H. Christ

Banned
She can dye her hair red y'all, couldn't care less if she's a natural redhead or not.

Do you guys really think Marvel would fuck up one of the most recognisable characters in their largest franchise that they just got back from Sony?

I don't think it's debatable that she looks the part way more than Dunst or Woodley.
 
Z

Zen_Arcade

Banned
GAMEPROFF said:
Pretty sure the prom night scene everyone speculates about isnt shot outdoor.
Also, wigs exist.
Click to expand...
Look, I'm not saying said they won't or can't make her hair red in some way. I'm just saying it would a pretty lame and unnecessary change to the character if they don't for whatever reason.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
Angelus Errare said:
How in the instance of this film by a white studio, where all of the suits are white, directed by white people, are white people being discriminated against?
Click to expand...
When someone accepts the change X of a character, but doesn't accept the change Y (you can insert anything you want in X and Y), then you make a discrimination against the people with the characteristic Y. That's my point. I don't care if the people behind something are white or black.
Skilletor said:
This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this site. I don't have to support "every change" because some changes don't make sense.

Changing Iron Fist, Black Panther, or Luke Cage's race matters to the story. Changing Mary Jane's does not.
Click to expand...

First of all, comments like "This is one of the stupidest things I've ever read on this site" are rude and don't provide anything.

Would you change the race of Falcon in the movies or someone else's whose race doesn't matter? Black's or white's. Because if you do, then I don't think you disagree with me, unless it's about story reasons, in which I agree with you. But if you would't change the movie's Falcon's race and you would change Stark's race for example, or the opposite, then you would make a discrimination.

Skilletor said:
Who is being discriminated against here?
Click to expand...
I'm not saying MJ's change of race was a dicrimination.
 
E

Exploratory

Banned
GAMEPROFF said:
Good then that she can and will most likely dye her hair, right?

My point stands. What if they just didnt found a black ginger actress? Pardon my ignorance, but until 10 minutes ago I didnt even know that this was possible. Pretty sure its not that common and this makes finding an actress not that easy.

Sorry, I consider feeling beeing discriminated because of the hair color as stupid as left handed feeling discriminated because most things are conceptet for right handed people.


No, but I think arguments with "it goes booth ways, when white character are changed into blacks thats bad, too!" Are super stupid. Talking about white privilege.
Click to expand...

Xun said:
Perhaps in the MCU she'll say she dyes her hair brunette?
Click to expand...

Jest Chillin said:
Archie is more iconic a ginger in comics than MJ. He's at least a main character. I'm not certain that MJ would even be that well known if not for the 90s cartoon (I.e. people not knowing who Gwen Stacy was when ASM came out).

But your overall point that she could be a redhead is accurate. If they did or do that, cool. If not, cool. It isn't that important in the grand scheme though.
Click to expand...

Archie of course but I meant in the super hero landscape.

And I think MJ is well known to any comic book fan. She's like the highest profile love interest in comics (because spider man is super popular in general).

And ultimately I disagree. I think her being red is important in the grand scheme. If you can have her be not white and have her be ginger why not do it? You're making a conscious decision not to at that point.
 
E

Experien

Member
I feel like if this was done by Sony of FOX, all the MCU fanboys would cry fowl. Since it is Disney doing it, they are fine with it.

Never been a big fan of Spiderman so I don't care either way. I just want a good movie that is better than the last three spiderman movies.
 
J

jon bones

hot hot hanuman-on-man action
The Cretan said:
Would you change the race of Falcon in the movies or someone else's whose race doesn't matter? Black's or white's. Because if you do, then I don't think you disagree with me, unless it's about story reasons, in which I agree with you. But if you would't change the movie's Falcon's race and you would change Stark's race for example, or the opposite, then you would make a discrimination.
Click to expand...

no, because again - his race is important to his character considering the bad guy in the current arc is:

americops-marvel.jpeg
 
T

The Cretan

Member
jon bones said:
no, because again - his race is important to his character considering the bad guy in the current arc is:

americops-marvel.jpeg
Click to expand...
I said in the movies.
Blader said:
There is no racial discrimination against white actors in Hollywood.
Click to expand...

I didn't said that there is a racial discrimination against white actors in Hollywood, I said that when somebody accepts one change, he has to accept another, unless (and thanks for the remark) there can't be a change because of story reasons.
 
B

Blader

Member
The Cretan said:
When someone accepts the change X of a character, but doesn't accept the change Y (you can insert anything you want in X and Y), then you make a discrimination against the people with the characteristic Y. That's my point. I don't care if the people behind something are white or black.
Click to expand...

Casting a black actor to play a white character is not discriminating against white people.

And you should care. This "I don't see white or black" colorblind nonsense might sound nice and progressive in your head, but it all does is turn a blind eye to actual racial discrimination.

The Cretan said:
I didn't said that there is a racial discrimination against white actors in Hollywood, I said that when somebody accepts one change, he has to accept another, unless (and thanks for the remark) there can't be a change because of story reasons.
Click to expand...

Accepting black actors playing white characters is not the same thing as accepting white actors playing black characters. Representation for blacks and minorities in Hollywood is historically (and still currently) so poor that giving black roles to white actors demonstrably hurts visibility and representation for minority communities. No white person is in any way demonstrably hurt by having a traditionally white character played by a black or brown actor.
 
B

bananafactory

Banned
GuitarAtomik said:
She's not dyeing her hair red guys. There's already on set photos of her:
Click to expand...

Most of these photos were from the first week (or first day) of shooting. I haven't seen set photos of her in a month or more, certainly not since the Homecoming dance was filmed inside.

I think it's safe to say there's still a chance, not that it really matters to me personally.
 
B

Big Baybee

Member
The Cretan said:
I said in the movies.


I didn't said that there is a racial discrimination against white actors in Hollywood, I said that when somebody accepts one change, he has to accept another, unless (and thanks for the remark) there can't be a change because of story reasons.
Click to expand...
That's not true, though. No matter what you feel. One is not equal to the other.
 
T

TwEE-N-Toast

Banned
I hope she shaves her head at this point. Now nobody get what they want.

But will she have her hourglass figure. I too want to talk about sexy teens.
 
N

Not Spaceghost

Spaceghost
I think she's a really great choice for a cocky MJ who likes to take charge of her situation.

But I won't lie, I'm a little disappointed she won't at least dye a strip of her hair red.

Red hair is just iconic to MJ, it's like iron man without the face plate design.
 
T

The Cretan

Member
Blader said:
Casting a black actor to play a white character is not discriminating against white people.

And you should care. This "I don't see white or black" colorblind nonsense might sound nice and progressive in your head, but it all does is turn a blind eye to actual racial discrimination.



Accepting black actors playing white characters is not the same thing as accepting white actors playing black characters. Representation for blacks and minorities in Hollywood is historically (and still currently) so poor that giving black roles to white actors demonstrably hurts visibility and representation for minority communities. No white person is in any way demonstrably hurt by having a traditionally white character played by a black or brown actor.
Click to expand...
If somebody wants to fight racism against black people or women or someone else, then the solution isn't to make a discrimination against the race or the gender who has never faced racism, but to find ways that can show people that we are all equals.
Big Baybee said:
That's not true, though. No matter what you feel. One is not equal to the other.
Click to expand...
I get that many black people has suffered because of discriminations, but that's an argument on why we should fight every discrimination.
 
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