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[itwasTuesday]

What if she dyes in universe.

And then peter can walk into a room and comment the drapes are really nice, oh and they match (pan to show the floor). Then he turns around and winks at the camera and we hold on his face for 8 seconds, then pan out to show mj standing there. Then laugh track.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I like vanilla looking white girls.

I thought this was about strawberry looking white girls tho..

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

If somebody wants to fight racism against black people or women or someone else, then the solution isn't to make a discrimination against the race or the gender who has never faced racism, but to find ways that can show people that we are all equals.

I get that many black people has suffered because of discriminations, but that's an argument on why we should fight every discrimination.

Casting a traditionally white character with a black actress is not discrimination.

 

[Skilletor]

If somebody wants to fight racism against black people or women or someone else, then the solution isn't to make a discrimination against the race or the gender who has never faced racism, but to find ways that can show people that we are all equals.

I get that many black people has suffered because of discriminations, but that's an argument on why we should fight every discrimination.

Why is it discrimination to offer more roles to minorities?

 

[Jest Chillin]

Archie of course but I meant in the super hero landscape.

And I think MJ is well known to any comic book fan. She's like the highest profile love interest in comics (because spider man is super popular in general).

And ultimately I disagree. I think her being red is important in the grand scheme. If you can have her be not white and have her be ginger why not do it? You're making a conscious decision not to at that point.

I don't think she's the highest profile love interest in comics either. Jean Grey and Lois Lane seem more well known off the top of my head.

Again, I think you're mixing up the cultural influence of the 90s cartoon with the influence from the books. Which is fine on the surface, when discussing the overall expectation but becomes misleading when you cite it as if the influence is from the source materials reception.

As for why not do it? Because it isn't anymore necessary than her being white. Perhaps she doesn't want to dye her hair and wigs look bad. Maybe red hair actually doesn't suit her? Maybe the creative's on the film don't care about the hair color because it has zero to do with plot, character development/motivation, or anything else that actually determines how the film does?

Or maybe it's because they want to hide that she's MJ for as long as possible and she goes red in a future film?

It can be a conscious choice or not. She really is not a character defined by her hair. She's defined far more by her role in Peter's life, her iconic phrases, and her being beautiful in such a way as to intimidate a young Peter. The specifics beyond that don't matter.

 

[The Cretan]

Casting a traditionally white character with a black actress is not discrimination.

Why is it discrimination to offer more roles to minorities?

I'm not saying casting a person of minority in a white character's role is a discrimination, I'm saying that accepting a change of race and not accepting another change of race is a discrimination.

 

[Iceternal]

When you support a character's change of race or gender or personality in his transition to film (which is totally fine if you do), then you have to support every change, even if the change is black to white or woman to man or something else. Racism is when you discriminate someone based on his skin colour, his gender etc. When you say that a black character can't be played by a white person, but a white character can be played by a black person, this is a discrimination. Also, I understand the "minorities aren't represented as much as white people on holywood" argument, but discrimination is still discrimination.

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

 

[bananafactory]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Casting a minority for a character traditionally white is not hating white people

There have been several excellent posts justifying and explaining why this is acceptable, admirable even.

 

[icespide]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

dude

 

[Jest Chillin]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

I haven't read the WHOLE thread mind you, bit I don't THINK anyone said they hate white people.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

😖

 

[BronsonLee]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Either you phrased this wrong or you're a goddamn idiot

 

[EdibleExplosives]

It's funny how treating minorities the same as white people is now 'discrimination against whites'. It's hilarious.

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

No, you ignored every explanation anyone gave you but yeah we all just hate white people.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Are..are you saying you..nah.

 

[BLACKLAC]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwgNh3tKXjE&list=WL&index=1

 

[-griffy-]

😖

Never has an avatar been more appropriate.

 

[Coffee Dog]

It's funny how treating minorities the same as white people is now 'discrimination against whites'. It's hilarious.

Minorities aren't being treated the same. They can't be spider-man, oh no, that'd be too far. They can be a wacky friend, supporting character, or an object of romantic desire.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

I'm not saying casting a person of minority in a white character's role is a discrimination, I'm saying that accepting a change of race and not accepting another change of race is a discrimination.

what

We don't accept, say, a black character being portrayed by a white dude because the vast majority of actors in Hollywood are white to begin with

We accept the other way around because it opens opportunities for the casting pool be more diverse than just 9 white people and 1 black guy

 

[The Kree]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

You might be inferring that this site's owner is a self-hating white man.

 

[EdibleExplosives]

Minorities aren't being treated the same. They can't be spider-man, oh no, that'd be too far. They can be a wacky friend, supporting character, or an object of romantic desire.

Oh yeah sorry, I should have said minorities being treated even slightly as well as white people. It makes the 'white hate' argument even more ridiculous.

 

[DeathoftheEndless]

I thought this was about strawberry looking white girls tho..

Only fools complain when you order strawberry and get chocolate-vanilla swirl instead.

Spoiler

this sounds creepy since we're talking about teenage girls

 

[xxracerxx]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Just keep on digging, keep on digging.

 

[Skilletor]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Holy shit. lol.

I don't hate white people. I have, at least, like four friends that are white.

BTW, you just said it's okay to hate white people, but it's not okay to hate minorities.

This is why people are judging you.

 

[Garlador]

I'm sure it's a coincidence, but that's the second time one of my favorite redheaded characters lost their red locks...

Poor gingers. Can't catch a break.

 

[EstoyBlackWaldo]

I 100% agree with you and already tried to make the same argument but it's apparently ok here to hate white people but not the contrary.

Goddamn ... The truth shall set you free.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

I'm not saying casting a person of minority in a white character's role is a discrimination, I'm saying that accepting a change of race and not accepting another change of race is a discrimination.

Let me ask you, are you against any pushes of diversity? Affirmative action, minority scholarships, BET, and basically anything that tries to get POC equal footing in this county when they clearly aren't?

 

[The Cretan]

what

We don't accept, say, a black character being portrayed by a white dude because the vast majority of actors in Hollywood are white to begin with

We accept the other way around because it opens opportunities for the casting pool be more diverse than just 9 white people and 1 black guy

If somebody wants to fight racism against black people or women or someone else, then the solution isn't to make a discrimination against the race or the gender who has never faced racism, but to find ways that can show people that we are all equals.

Also, I don't know who has this way of thinking (accepting a change, but not another change), I just made an argument against this way of thinking.

 

[phanphare]

Never has an avatar been more appropriate.

except all 4 panels need to be the full face palm

 

[Litan]

When someone accepts the change X of a character, but doesn't accept the change Y (you can insert anything you want in X and Y), then you make a discrimination against the people with the characteristic Y. That's my point. I don't care if the people behind something are white or black.

So if BP was cast as a white dude and people weren't accepting of that, it would be discrimation against white people despite the fact that BP is a hero whose race is central to his character and those of his people? No.
Want an example you can understand? Captain America. Based on his origin that's a character who, if he had been cast as black or some other minority, would have been hard to swallow.

Would you change the race of Falcon in the movies or someone else's whose race doesn't matter? Black's or white's. Because if you do, then I don't think you disagree with me, unless it's about story reasons, in which I agree with you. But if you would't change the movie's Falcon's race and you would change Stark's race for example, or the opposite, then you would make a discrimination.

We're 13 movies into the MCU and every lead has been a white male (unless you count BW in avenger movies. Still white, though.)
So, yeah, if they'd change Falcon, one of the first black heroes in comics, you bet people would be upset. Instead of trying to create this anti-white narrative that doesn't exist, maybe you should just be glad that Marvel is stepping up with diversifying their movies.

I'm not saying MJ's change of race was a dicrimination.

That's exactly what you're trying to argue.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Also, I don't know who has this way of thinking (accepting a change, but not another change), I just made an argument against this way of thinking.

'find ways to show we're all equals'

How does working towards a more diverse actor pool in Hollywood by casting more minorities, i.e., Zendaya as Mary Jane, NOT help that cause?

 

[Skilletor]

That's exactly what you're trying to argue.

Yeah, I'm hella confused. Poster keeps saying one thing, but all of his arguments point to another.

 

[Blader]

If somebody wants to fight racism against black people or women or someone else, then the solution isn't to make a discrimination against the race or the gender who has never faced racism, but to find ways that can show people that we are all equals.

Improving representation for minorities or women in film is not discrimination against whites or men.

White men in Hollywood face no racial or gender discrimination whatsoever. Not now, not ever. Having a white actor play a traditionally black character is worlds apart from having a black actor playing a traditionally white character. There's a loss of representation in the former scenario; there's no such loss in the latter because whites are in no danger of not being represented on screen.

 

[Iceternal]

Holy shit. lol.

I don't hate white people. I have, at least, like four friends that are white.

BTW, you just said it's okay to hate white people, but it's not okay to hate minorities.

This is why people are judging you.

Lol that argument, "I'm not racist I have a black/white friend". This is the argument that's always used by extreme right parties in France to justify that they're "not racist".

Also ... nope I just said it's not okay to be able to criticize one side but not the other.

You either allow both sides to be criticized or none.

 

[The Cretan]

Let me ask you, are you against any pushes of diversity? Affirmative action, minority scholarships, BET, and basically anything that tries to get POC equal footing in this county when they clearly aren't?

A person of colour must have his scholarship if he deservers it, like any other person should have it.

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

Also ... nope I just said it's not okay to be able to criticize one side but not the other.

You either allow both sides to be criticized or none.

yeah because whites and blacks are totally equal in America right

Jesus Christ, just give up

 

[spiderman123]

Cant see it tbh. But who knows maybe her performance will be fantastic

 

[Jest Chillin]

Yeah, I'm hella confused. Poster keeps saying one thing, but all of his arguments point to another.

I think the problem is he's using the word discrimination when what he's describing seems more like hypocrisy at most. I don't think hypocrisy fits exactly either though since representation is so far from equal.

 

[Skilletor]

Lol that argument, "I'm not racist I have a black/white friend". This is the argument that's always used by extreme right parties in France to justify that they're "not racist".

Also ... nope I just said it's not okay to be able to criticize one side but not the other.

You either allow both sides to be criticized or none.

Yeah, I know. I used it sarcastically.

That's not what you said. Words have meaning.

 

[Iceternal]

yeah because whites and blacks are totally equal in America right

Jesus Christ, just give up

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

Yeah, I know. I used it sarcastically.

That's not what you said. Words have meaning.

English isn't my first language so excuse me if I'm not fluent enough to make my argument sound nicer.

 

[ViewtifulJC]

A person of colour must have his scholarship if he deservers it, like any other person should have it.

do you understand what minority scholarships are

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

This is an american movie, developed by American people, depicting American life, casting based on American histories and values.

Its kiiiiinda the center of this topic.

 

[Sanjuro]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

It's the center of the Spider-Man property.

 

[Litan]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.



English isn't my first language so excuse me if I'm not fluent enough to make my argument sound nicer.

Take a guess at which country this movie is based.

 

[Blader]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

It is for American comics and American movies that reflect the demography of real Americans.

 

[Exploratory]

I don't think she's the highest profile love interest in comics either. Jean Grey and Lois Lane seem more well known off the top of my head.

Again, I think you're mixing up the cultural influence of the 90s cartoon with the influence from the books. Which is fine on the surface, when discussing the overall expectation but becomes misleading when you cite it as if the influence is from the source materials reception.

As for why not do it? Because it isn't anymore necessary than her being white. Perhaps she doesn't want to dye her hair and wigs look bad. Maybe red hair actually doesn't suit her? Maybe the creative's on the film don't care about the hair color because it has zero to do with plot, character development/motivation, or anything else that actually determines how the film does?

Or maybe it's because they want to hide that she's MJ for as long as possible and she goes red in a future film?

It can be a conscious choice or not. She really is not a character defined by her hair. She's defined far more by her role in Peter's life, her iconic phrases, and her being beautiful in such a way as to intimidate a young Peter. The specifics beyond that don't matter.

You think Jean Grey is higher profile than Mary Jane Watson?

Bruh...

I think you're devaluing that part of her character. Would you be okay with no S on his chest? Changing the color of Beasts blue hair to pink? Etc.

I really don't think Marvel gives a fuck what Zendaya wants to do with her hair. It's much more likely she's dying (ha) to be a part of this film at all since it's a huge role. And red hair is popular right now among women of color anyway.

 

[Jest Chillin]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

It's an American made film about American characters.

It's not like we're discussing racial equality in a Chinese made film about Chinese characters from an American perspective.

 

[droggg]

wow this thread...what happened to this forum?

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

You keep trying to make this false equivalency while ignoring (intentionally or otherwise) the historical context of black oppression. "Oh, both sides are equal!" is a childish-as-hell perspective that more or less tells black people to get over being handed the short straw for the past few centuries.

English isn't my first language so excuse me if I'm not fluent enough to make my argument sound nicer.

It's not your English. Its the fact that you're short-sighted as hell.

 

[The Kree]

wow this thread...what happened to this forum?

They let people rock anime avatars. Been downhill ever since.

 

[BronsonLee]

But I don't give a fuck about America dude. I'm not american. Why should I care ?

America is not the center of the world.

Bitch the movie is in Queens NY, not Helsinki Finland

 

[Yeezus H. Christ]

anime avatar GAF taking so many fucking Ls oh man