I think they said they won't rework him, rather just retune some numbers/ratios.
League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot
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Stone Ocean
Member
How do you even get outfarmed by a Yasuo as Gragas?
Like I'm not even CSing hard or pushing you out of lane, if you as much as Q the caster minions on every wave you'll at least keep up with me.
Like I'm not even CSing hard or pushing you out of lane, if you as much as Q the caster minions on every wave you'll at least keep up with me.
SUPER WEEK is here!
Gambit Gaming vs SK Gaming
Copenhagen Wolves vs Alliance
Fnatic vs Supa Hot Crew
Gambit Gaming vs Copenhagen Wolves
Alliance vs Roccat
Millenium vs Fnatic
Following today's LCS action today will be that start of the Quarterfinal Round of the EU Challenger Series 2.
Cloud9 HyperX Eclipse vs Departed
EU Challenger Series 2 Quarterfinal Preview
EU LCS goes to Carnival
Turning AP into OP in the Top Lane
EU LCS Week 8 Preview
Road Trip! From Austria to the LCS
The Recap: NA Challenger Series 2 Play-In
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The Recap: EU LCS Week 7
How to Watch
Twitch
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Azubu
Remember to check out the LCS Season 4 thread for discussion. Let's try to keep this thread spoiler free.
Gambit Gaming vs SK Gaming
Copenhagen Wolves vs Alliance
Fnatic vs Supa Hot Crew
Gambit Gaming vs Copenhagen Wolves
Alliance vs Roccat
Millenium vs Fnatic
Following today's LCS action today will be that start of the Quarterfinal Round of the EU Challenger Series 2.
Cloud9 HyperX Eclipse vs Departed
EU Challenger Series 2 Quarterfinal Preview
EU LCS goes to Carnival
Turning AP into OP in the Top Lane
EU LCS Week 8 Preview
Road Trip! From Austria to the LCS
The Recap: NA Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: NA LCS Week 7
The Recap: EU Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: EU LCS Week 7
How to Watch
Twitch
YouTube
Azubu
Remember to check out the LCS Season 4 thread for discussion. Let's try to keep this thread spoiler free.
I am having trouble deciding if I'm just a little salty that one of my favorite champions (whcih I barely had a 50% win rate on last season anyways) is getting nerfed or I genuinely believe it's unwarranted.
I've played with, as and against quite a few Elises in Season 3 and without bias I don't really see her as a serious problem. She has a 48-49% winrate on lolking, she does have a strong early game but still needs to be in the mix mid and late game and holds that inherent risk.
I dunno. I'm not going to stress over it. It is what it is. I was pretty lucky that all my best champs have been relevant for so long or became relevant with S4 (all my khazix jungle games in S3 vindicated). Will just have to learn some new junglers. She'll probably still be effective just because of her kit but it's definitely a hit.
I've played with, as and against quite a few Elises in Season 3 and without bias I don't really see her as a serious problem. She has a 48-49% winrate on lolking, she does have a strong early game but still needs to be in the mix mid and late game and holds that inherent risk.
I dunno. I'm not going to stress over it. It is what it is. I was pretty lucky that all my best champs have been relevant for so long or became relevant with S4 (all my khazix jungle games in S3 vindicated). Will just have to learn some new junglers. She'll probably still be effective just because of her kit but it's definitely a hit.
Wolf Akela
Member
That's 81 damage to champs and 60 heal per hit.
I noticed Feral Flame's ward range is huuuuuge. Was Wriggle this way too?
First time seeing this. This seems...broken.
I think some of you need to re-interpret what Riot Jag was saying. He's speaking in context of the Elise nerfs which are exceptional early game ganking and objective control:
"On another note, I think some of the Lee Sin comparisons here are fair."
He isn't saying that it's not ok to have champions that are strong early and get weaker late game, he's saying that this playstyle of champion is dominating the meta. If your champion can't do what Elise, Lee Sin and - to a lesser extent - Vi and Kha'Zix and friends do early to mid game, then that champion is simply going to be a tier below.
To all of you claiming that smoothing out Lee Sin's power curve will lead to boring homogeneity, well, that's exactly what the jungle is right now. The ~6 or so top tier champions are similar to each other. In competitive play, there are no top tier counter jungling duelists (Udyr, Shyvana, Olaf), there are no top tier utility junglers (Maokai, Nunu) there are no top tier mADC carry junglers (Tryn, Yi, Jax), and there are no top tier tanks (Nautilus, Sejuani).
In what world are slight Elise nerfs and Lee Sin power shifts not worth potentially and significantly opening up the jungle meta?
"On another note, I think some of the Lee Sin comparisons here are fair."
He isn't saying that it's not ok to have champions that are strong early and get weaker late game, he's saying that this playstyle of champion is dominating the meta. If your champion can't do what Elise, Lee Sin and - to a lesser extent - Vi and Kha'Zix and friends do early to mid game, then that champion is simply going to be a tier below.
To all of you claiming that smoothing out Lee Sin's power curve will lead to boring homogeneity, well, that's exactly what the jungle is right now. The ~6 or so top tier champions are similar to each other. In competitive play, there are no top tier counter jungling duelists (Udyr, Shyvana, Olaf), there are no top tier utility junglers (Maokai, Nunu) there are no top tier mADC carry junglers (Tryn, Yi, Jax), and there are no top tier tanks (Nautilus, Sejuani).
In what world are slight Elise nerfs and Lee Sin power shifts not worth potentially and significantly opening up the jungle meta?
Stone Ocean
Member
Do the monsters killed torwards the Feral Flare upgrade count in it's damage? Or do you always start at 100/12?
Wolf Akela
Member
I... didn't notice. I only know Machete and Razor kills count towards the upgrade towards Feral Flame, since Wriggles was 11/25 when I bought it.
Great comment. I agree Elise and Lee are great fun to play and requires above average skill, but they need more weaknesses to warrant their obscene versatility.
Jeez, that thing is going to make Yi scary as shit, fiora as well.
It's a jungle item...
OGN Champions Spring 2014 Group Stage Brackets
Group A
SK Telecom T1 K
SK Telecom T1 S
Prime Optimus
KT Rolster Arrows
Group B
Samsung Galaxy Ozone
Incredible Miracle #1
CJ Entus Frost
Midas FIO
Group C
KT Rolster Bullets
NaJin Black Sword
Samsung Galaxy Blue
Jin Air Falcons
Group D
NaJin White Shield
Xenics Storm
CJ Entus Blaze
Incredible Miracle #2
Matches start one week from today, March 12th.
The first match is SK Telecom T1 S vs SK Telecom T1 K followed by Midas FIO vs CJ Entus Frost
Cant wait!!
Group A
SK Telecom T1 K
SK Telecom T1 S
Prime Optimus
KT Rolster Arrows
Group B
Samsung Galaxy Ozone
Incredible Miracle #1
CJ Entus Frost
Midas FIO
Group C
KT Rolster Bullets
NaJin Black Sword
Samsung Galaxy Blue
Jin Air Falcons
Group D
NaJin White Shield
Xenics Storm
CJ Entus Blaze
Incredible Miracle #2
Matches start one week from today, March 12th.
The first match is SK Telecom T1 S vs SK Telecom T1 K followed by Midas FIO vs CJ Entus Frost
Cant wait!!
You can jungle fiora!
gragas has an aoe waveclear and escape mechanism
yasuo is melee and will get pooped on if caught out
Seriously can they nerf the following champs?
Pantheon, Akali, Trynda, Fizz.
Like it doesn't matter what their score is; once they get a few kills they just constantly snowball. I have won a great deal of games and lost as well but as a matter of fact, it is disgusting how easily they can come back to the game.
Pantheon, Akali, Trynda, Fizz.
Like it doesn't matter what their score is; once they get a few kills they just constantly snowball. I have won a great deal of games and lost as well but as a matter of fact, it is disgusting how easily they can come back to the game.
Akali is kind of easy to stop though, I don't think she needs any more nerfs. She is already a rather weak niche pick. Just get Oracle Sweeper or pink wards for her invisibility.
Stone Ocean
Member
I meant I was playing Yasuo and was easily outfarming a Gragas.
Stone Ocean
Member
1 - Don't buy characters with RP unless you're getting them in skin bundles. You'll regret it later.
2 - Which item is that?
Rejoice!
I don't think it will go well. Slow clears due to no aoe and her spells are kind of shitty for the jungle. You can't use E a lot, you can essentially only use Q to lasthit creeps, your W has a bad uptime and the low true damage is not very useful against the jungle creeps, they don't have much armor. The ganks will not be very good since you probably won't have the luxury of using a creep as a Q target.
Next comes the Wukong and Pantheon nerfs then it's back to finding the most effective 4-6 junglers and it starts all over again.
I understand everyone is frustrated by the fact that the jungle is largely dominated by a few champions but seriously - name me a time this was not so. There will always be champs in a particular role that are more effective than the others. It's the nature of the game. How about that top lane? Snoozefest. We see Trundle, Shyvana, Renekton with a splash of Jax. How about that midlane Lulu?
It looks like they are nerfing the carry junglers that are thriving in the current meta again and we're going to run the risk of going back to the boring tank/utility only junglers.
This has been the best time for jungling since I've started playing the game but they just continue the trend of nerfing the carry ones. Even Evelynn is resorting to building tank in the LCS now.
Every time they introduce a viable carry jungler, people get all hissy about it and they start another round of nerfs. This is like the 800th Vi nerf since she was introduced.
Once this round of junglers are gone it'll just be another until they kill the carry jungle again.
sigh
If I had to guess, some up and coming junglers will be:
Akali (the damages are strong with this one)
Amumu (new spirit stone and building some damage will make him a monster again)
Darius (maybe.. mobo boots nerf hurt him but spirit stone solves his mana problems)
Fizz
Lissandra
Master Yi (watch this new wriggles)
Rengar (again with the wriggles)
Talon
I understand everyone is frustrated by the fact that the jungle is largely dominated by a few champions but seriously - name me a time this was not so. There will always be champs in a particular role that are more effective than the others. It's the nature of the game. How about that top lane? Snoozefest. We see Trundle, Shyvana, Renekton with a splash of Jax. How about that midlane Lulu?
It looks like they are nerfing the carry junglers that are thriving in the current meta again and we're going to run the risk of going back to the boring tank/utility only junglers.
This has been the best time for jungling since I've started playing the game but they just continue the trend of nerfing the carry ones. Even Evelynn is resorting to building tank in the LCS now.
Every time they introduce a viable carry jungler, people get all hissy about it and they start another round of nerfs. This is like the 800th Vi nerf since she was introduced.
Once this round of junglers are gone it'll just be another until they kill the carry jungle again.
sigh
If I had to guess, some up and coming junglers will be:
Akali (the damages are strong with this one)
Amumu (new spirit stone and building some damage will make him a monster again)
Darius (maybe.. mobo boots nerf hurt him but spirit stone solves his mana problems)
Fizz
Lissandra
Master Yi (watch this new wriggles)
Rengar (again with the wriggles)
Talon
Stone Ocean
Member
Vi "nerfs"
Love taps at best
Maybe with the new Wriggles upgrade though.
Love taps at best
Nope. She doesn't clear fast enough for it to work. It was already really hard in S3, can't imagine how slow she is in S4.
Maybe with the new Wriggles upgrade though.
Ya trying to think of different jungles that the usual that might work with the new wriggles.
Maybe twitch, or twisted fate.
Maybe. Then again even when not jungling, I've had more fun playing this season than previous seasons by far. I've rather enjoyed having 5 influential, desirable positions. I really disliked having two positions completely designated to a utility role.
Maybe. But it does lead to more people wanting to play jungle. People don't like playing tanky tops. Being a tanky jungle is just as boring, if not more-so.
KiwiLannister
Member
The jungle is awesome right now. Those vi nerfs are nothing, the increased ad ratios are a buff for offensively built vi. Probably makes it a bit harder to just build pure tank and still deal damage like you can right now.
As long as the jungle items don't change Diana is still a viable carry jungle when the enemy jungler isn't a strong counter jungler or early ganker.
Pantheon is who I would nerf first if anything, because his kit is too easy. An early gank with elise or Lee is much more difficult than with point and click q+w.
As long as the jungle items don't change Diana is still a viable carry jungle when the enemy jungler isn't a strong counter jungler or early ganker.
Pantheon is who I would nerf first if anything, because his kit is too easy. An early gank with elise or Lee is much more difficult than with point and click q+w.
i don't think anyone ever wants to play top now doe
Stone Ocean
Member
Carry junglers already exist anyways. Just not Tryndamere/Yi "I can't gank for shit so I'll afk farm for 30 minutes" type of carry junglers.
But in these cases, if these champions ever become viable they need their early game severely nerfed IMO. If you're gonna scale as hard as Tryndamere then someone like Sejuani needs to be able to slap your shit.
You know, I debated mentioning top in that post. I still see people ask for top but you're right, it's gotta be the least desired role right now. lol.
But I say "top pref" everytime I enter champ select
Stone Ocean
Member
Weee, got my silver 1 back. Now to take back my gold.
I'd rather top and AFK farm as/against Mundo than touch bot lane right now.
Sweet. Making that push for gold now?
Stone Ocean
Member
Yep. I just hope it doesn't take me like 4 promo series in a row like Silver 1 took.
for me having all roles get a shit ton of money makes the game less interesting. like the ward limit made support a bit more fun since you get to build other supporty items like shurelyas and mikaels but now every game has like two tops
and like since snowballing was nerfed it's usually not about good ganking junglers but simply about scaling or crazy ultimates like wukong.
i mean i played support for hundreds of games with like a sightstone, boots and wards as my only items and i didn't mind, i had to be smart about my positioning and my ward placement and my mana use, etc. i didn't lose all of that but the role does feel a lot less unique, tho that may have something to do with having to play against fucking leona every single game
i don't play jungle but from my point of view it seems like kind of a similar issue, they allowed junglers to scale so now they pushed out all the top laners that could scale but couldn't survive laning phase and that just seems weird. like they'll just build one or two damage items, then all tank. like if they added some cool actives to jungle items like they did to support items maybe they could have their own identity that way?
edit: well all the top laners isn't really fair, it's really just wuko and panth but I imagine after them it'll be someone else and so on.
and like since snowballing was nerfed it's usually not about good ganking junglers but simply about scaling or crazy ultimates like wukong.
i mean i played support for hundreds of games with like a sightstone, boots and wards as my only items and i didn't mind, i had to be smart about my positioning and my ward placement and my mana use, etc. i didn't lose all of that but the role does feel a lot less unique, tho that may have something to do with having to play against fucking leona every single game
i don't play jungle but from my point of view it seems like kind of a similar issue, they allowed junglers to scale so now they pushed out all the top laners that could scale but couldn't survive laning phase and that just seems weird. like they'll just build one or two damage items, then all tank. like if they added some cool actives to jungle items like they did to support items maybe they could have their own identity that way?
edit: well all the top laners isn't really fair, it's really just wuko and panth but I imagine after them it'll be someone else and so on.
just play top morgana.
Dobkeratops
OT Hard Carry
Twelve straight hours of Uni today that will be followed by another twelve tomorrow, not counting travel time. Who the fuck comes up with these schedules.
I'll definitely have the thread ready this weekend, but parts of it might be even sloppier than usual (and the format is harder to compose). It's turning out really fucking silly, though.
On that note it's your last chance to let us know if we absolutely must include something!
leave mai husbando alone
I'll definitely have the thread ready this weekend, but parts of it might be even sloppier than usual (and the format is harder to compose). It's turning out really fucking silly, though.
On that note it's your last chance to let us know if we absolutely must include something!
leave mai husbando alone
Tizoc
Member
I misread it, it's Dervish Blade:
http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Dervish_Blade
...and seems it's not available on Summoner's Rift =V
On phone, but the funny part was when KaKao said he wanted to destroy the SKT organization and he draws the sister team in the raffle. Dat smile.
WOAH, IRELIA BUFF? AM I DREAMING?
Just to add onto this idea, the continued prevalence of high early damage, ganking junglers is also having massive influence on mid lane as well. Malzahar, Anivia, Brand, etc. not being viable mid picks has more to do with the current jungle picks than it does lane opponents.
Hasn't that always been the case with mid though?
Stone Ocean
Member
No. Mid used to have a lot of variety. Still does - compared to everywhere else that is - but a lot of champs that would otherwise be good just can't be played thanks to certain junglers and assassins being overbearing.
Still not as bad as late S3 mid though. That was the worst balance mid lane had in years.
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