geordiemp
Member
Yes, But if you have a serious amount to spend > £ 5000
Plasma, LCD, OLED, LED, best tv for next gen
- Thread starter spannicus
- Start date
Yes, But if you have a serious amount to spend > £ 5000
whitemex88
Member
Just had my Panasonic TCP50S30 die on me yesterday. It was almost 3 years old. I'm currently mulling over my options here. Don't know what to do. Repair or replace?
michaelius
Banned
LG and Samsung - they have amazing picture but input lag is really gross - around 100 ms range
lostinblue
Banned
800 Hz is besides the point... It's also marketing jargon mumbo jumbo.
W905A panel is just 240 Hz, I'm not sure about W829 just yet, but it might be as low as 120 Hz; it'll never be 800 Hz. Either way, doesn't really matter: motionflow is not so good, 800 Hz relates to the number of intermediate source scans and manipulation the processing engine can perform but it introduces undefeatable sharpening (and ringing) and will only enhance really crappy sources anyway. It's not even one of the best processing engines of it's kind in the market.
As for response... You're right, but I'll argue W905A had arguments to convince me to go higher than W650A, I don't think W829B has that over either W650A's or W705B's.
Namely, triluminos wasn't just marketing, it was one of the only LCD sets fighting against the fact that LCD can't show full gamut at all times and instead rebate color detail, in short - it's the closest to DCI 98% (from plasmas) you'll get from a regular LCD. And that's something W829 lost.
^ This could be W905A vs W829B.
If you've seen ST60/VT60 reds, greens or blues and were left amazed at them, know that the closest you can get to that, is with a W900A. That's a big deal for me.
Regarding uniformity/consistency and banding, I'll say that's fanfiction until they get well into the hands of people and we're able to judge them outside of review samples and the fact reviewers always neglect to consider the lack of quality there a "deal breaker", I cringe every time they don't consider something that major to be anything but an annotation, if they even take the time to put it like that.
Also, QA and yields usually improve during the production year, buying a W900A now you're likely to get the last batch and that could be better than the first ones. Anyway, getting something with a screen is always a gamble, both the newer model and the old, but the older model is better. And hence, even if it has a little less inches going on, thing for me is, years from now I'll get a newer TV, and a bad TV will still suck, a good TV will still shine. I don't think W829B suck, but I definitely do think W905A's will shine for years to come.
W900A also has dynamic local dimming which will make horizontal black bars in films and pillar boxed bars on 4:3 content... blacker. Nowhere to be seen on W829B.
And that's an improvement, even because it hides away lack of uniformity (which won't be perfect in anything edge lit with a slim profile.
How did it die?
A lot of plasmas die from the power source giving out, and that's usually a bunch of bad caps who can get repaired on the cheap providing they didn't damage anything else whilst going out.
I'd repair it, if it can be repaired like that, but not through Panasonic as they'll just replace the whole board and charge you big bucks for it. (well, you can ask for their opinion/diagnosis if it's free, but don't pay them for repair if it's expensive). Anyway, lots of places give free diagnosis (at least here) I'd try at least that.
A Panny S30 is still a very good TV if you can salvage it.
whitemex88
Member
Funny thing really, i just got home from best buy after buying new pioneer speakers. I was all excited to set them up. Turned on the TV. College game was on. Parts of the screen turned a weird color and then the screen just went out. Happy birthday to me. from all I could find online about my issue, it seems like one of the boards is bad. I have to call Panasonic today to just get some sort of estimate.
lostinblue
Banned
I see, yes it's probably one of the boards.
Does it blink now? (how many, 8 or 14?)
Plasmas draw a lot of energy, against tech like LCD, so the power board going out is kind of normal, the more energy a device eats out the more prone to problems in that front it is.
It's also something Panasonic has been known to go cheap on, (and they loose efficiency with time) so in some models they're time bombs (was it getting louder lately? sometimes "plasma buzz" is not plasma buzz, it's power source caps turning ineffective and being stressed out, like an old power supply adapter biting the dust, they do get noisy), I've seen power boards going out on ST50's.
Luckily they're also very repairable, usually just a bunch of bad caps, one could even repair them at home with a multimeter, isolate the problem and replace them. Although I wouldn't recommend it if you have no prior experience (also know that because Plasmas draw some energy, they're not "secure" like LCD's which you can mess out right after taking the plug out of the wall, with some older plasmas you were advised to wait for one hour as to avoid electrical discharges, I'd follow said protocol with newer ones too).
If you're interested in trying though, there's a forum where self-repair people gather on, they might be able to help.
whitemex88
Member
14 blinks. Its a solid when hit the power. 14 blinks when I hold
Edit: thank you
Edit: thank you
michaelius
Banned
Once supply of 2013 W905 runs out what are other candidates for low input lag, good motion performance, great color gaming TVs ?
lostinblue
Banned
Ok, that's consistent.
It's definitely not saying it's "dead".
A-Board is the board where the firmware is, hours count and cpu just the same are located there, it's the heart of the thing (and thus, lots of things can go wrong), P-Board is power supply board.
It's probably one of those two, and that gives you a ballpark, it's likely very repairable, but sadly, as cheap as changing a capacitor or two in there would be Panasonic doesn't contemplate hand-fixing boards in their modus operandi, instead they switch them as a module.
Then they ship them somewhere and often rebuild them (change caps, all that), only to sell them to someone with a tech problem later on. It's fine, they do the same on electrical parts for cars, but knowing it was a $2 fix can bite, as it often is.
Right now... No 2K sets on the same footing.
Perhaps Sharp Quattron 4K, which aren't 4K at all and are RGBY (Red, Green, Blue and Yellow), but I don't know how they'll behave with input lag, Sony is class leading on that right now.
Then there's the possibility of a future triluminos 2K 2015 set from Sony themselves and if Samsung changes their minds and actually releases the H7000 plasma and it has low input lag (unlike F8500) then it'll be a contender because color reproduction will be there. (and I don't know if 2014 evo kits improve the still in production F8500)
Nothing else with a 2K resolution is promising a exceptionally ambitious color gamut reproduction, good motion and low input lag I'm afraid (except quattron). Even 4K sets, are pulling away from the per pixel color accuracy war, instead they'll try to achieve it via look up tables due to the fact 1:1 1080p scales up as 1:4 on them and ultimately dithering mixed with additive mixing (your eyes, doing the end job), since the pixel detail surpasses your vision capabilities at optimal distance and hence, they'll rebate them, it's like impressionist pixelation at a distance.
Less than ideal/honest I'd say, but fitting for LCD's since price per crappy pixel is cheap. Cheaper than pulling quality pixels, which was what condemned plasma tech in the first place. Some TN panels out there only pull 18 bit color in reality (rebating the rest of the color nuances), and that might turn out fine for 4K sets with interpolation. It's just sad at this point. It might be what's delaying OLED mass production too, since yields are not going right and more pixels don't make them any better.
Triluminos on W905A's is very high quality per pixel and I'd demand no less for any TV costing as much. (or even slighly lower) I can only forgive forgoing it on W650A and W705B's because I find them cheap enough.
lostinblue
Banned
sorry, double posted.
whitemex88
Member
I think I just made the decision to just wait until the vizio p series launch. I'll start setting up a little fund to the side. Gonna have to make do with my old 32 inch dynex I bought in 07. Such a shame
Finally finished calibrating my VT60.
I'm in love all over again.
Been going through all my old Blurays and playing some older PS3/360 games just to see how they look. Just an amazing set and I'm so glad I was able to get one before they completely disappeared!
Planet Earth is still the GOAT Bluray of all time.
I'm in love all over again.
Been going through all my old Blurays and playing some older PS3/360 games just to see how they look. Just an amazing set and I'm so glad I was able to get one before they completely disappeared!
Planet Earth is still the GOAT Bluray of all time.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
What did you use to calibrate yours?
The 2014 bravias all look pretty good. Unlike the 2013 range, where the 800 was a poor choice, this time the 829 looks like the sweet spot in terms of value.
They have similar low lag performance as last year, sony's motionflow is better than most on clear/clear plus
lostinblue
Banned
Did you miss W950B's?
They stink more than W800A's ever did.
2014 bravia range stays mostly the same in the entry W6/7 series, solves the W8 issue in creating a model that stays between the aforementioned models and W900A, yes... And totally butchered the W9 series with the W950B making both any other W range TV preferable to them (exactly like it was for W800A's last year).
End result is a top range model massive downgrade, yet the W829B's still feel like a middleterm, or rather, what the W800A's should have been in the first place.
Unknown Soldier
Member
98% DCI is pretty amazing if you run a gaming PC or any console which outputs in Full Range to your TV, it's basically indistinguishable from computer sRGB.
I ran the D-Nice slides for the first 100 or so hours followed by inputting the CNet settings and tweaking them to my taste a bit.
I actually loved the THX Cinema settings by default with just some slight adjustments but the inability to run the pixel orbiter with that setting led me to stick Cinema and get it as close to the THX look as I could.
It's by no means a professional calibration but I'm really happy with the picture quality and how blu rays/games look on it. FFX HD looks especially great. Next step is to pick up a PS4 in a few months.
Applesauce
Boom! Bitch-slapped!
I can't get good daytime settings if my life depended on it. But the THX Cinema mode does indeed look incredible in low light. I am probably gonna get a pro to come in and calibrate it now that I've broken mine in.
I've been tweaking the Game mode settings on my Sony W653 42'' quite a bit recently, I think I hit a point where I'm quite satisfied. I didn't use any calibration set, just a set of eyes and some good video.
Backlight: 3
Contrast: 96
Brightness: 52
Color: 53
Hue: R1
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 50
Smooth Gradation: Low
[All other processing off on this page]
[All processing off on the advanced settings]
Gamma: -2
White balance:
R gain: 0
G gain: -2
B gain: -1
R bias: -1
G bias: -3
B bias: -4
Probably won't work for everyone, but if it helps anyone - great.
Backlight: 3
Contrast: 96
Brightness: 52
Color: 53
Hue: R1
Color Temperature: Warm 2
Sharpness: 50
Smooth Gradation: Low
[All other processing off on this page]
[All processing off on the advanced settings]
Gamma: -2
White balance:
R gain: 0
G gain: -2
B gain: -1
R bias: -1
G bias: -3
B bias: -4
Probably won't work for everyone, but if it helps anyone - great.
Marvel
could never
Can someone help me calibrate? I have a Sony Bravia KDL R500 42" LED.
This is what it's on right now.
Picture Mode: Custom
Game Mode: ON
Input renamed to GAME
Backlight: Max
Contrast: Max
Brightness: 43
Color: 50
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Noise/MEPG Reduction: OFF
Advanced Contrast: OFF
Black Corrector: Low
Gamma: 0
Clear White: High
Live Color: High
LED Motion Mode: ON (dims the screen a lot but gets rid of a slight tint)
And I'm using HDMI IN 2 MHL port, if I use HDMI 1 it looks like shit.
This is what it's on right now.
Picture Mode: Custom
Game Mode: ON
Input renamed to GAME
Backlight: Max
Contrast: Max
Brightness: 43
Color: 50
Sharpness: 0
Color Temp: Neutral
Noise/MEPG Reduction: OFF
Advanced Contrast: OFF
Black Corrector: Low
Gamma: 0
Clear White: High
Live Color: High
LED Motion Mode: ON (dims the screen a lot but gets rid of a slight tint)
And I'm using HDMI IN 2 MHL port, if I use HDMI 1 it looks like shit.
Delt31
Member
So I want the best PQ and lowest game lag and it seems like W900a is the clear choice. I am interested to see how good these plasmas from panny are (s60) however I don't like plasma's duller look (IMO) and I currently have a Samsung c8000 which still is awesome today. I love the pop and potentially saturated picture so I feel like the sony LED will be the best choice but should I try panasonic or regardless of how good it is, if I don't like that plasma look, this won't change my mind...?
Im guessing most Plasma you've seen is in stores? If so, most likely you just aren't conditioned to natural image contrast in a home environment I think. W900 is the closest you will get to Plasma picture on an LED set btw.
Delt31
Member
Bought a tv from them - all went well. What discounts btw b/c I'm looking for this tv too. seems like 1500 with 2% off. anything else?
geordiemp
Member
Same dilemma as you, check out hdtvtest and other review sites that measure lag by the 2 methods (fast camera and input device)...There is a clear trend...
I currently have an LG47LM660 and was horrified when I checked that it had 67 ms lag. It made me feel I was behind a little on CD Ghosts. Went back to my old Panny plasma and all was better.
So, Samsung / LG / Panny LED was off the menu, down to Sony LED or Plasma...
Went with a Sony 46W905, dat 8 ms input lag, for me that's a TV and a gaming monitor in one. Also I can wall hang it on existing VESA bracket I have on wall.
Next contender was 50W829B, cheaper, bigger, same lag, worse sound and not so good colours. It sticks out more wall hanging......It was close...
Delt31
Member
were you happy with the tv choice? where did you buy the 905?
NubCakes09
Member
What's the best tv for $500-$600? Every TV I have checked out that is under $500 seems to have some major issues (motion blur, input lag, TV turning itself off). Any help would be super appreciated.
runningjoke
Member
The buttons in the youtube app look bigger now
[edit] Sony support website sorta has a changelog
Hmm for $100 less I would be on it. But I really only need 32-40 inches, 1080p, low input lag, and don't need any smart features
Thanks! I might as well disable auto-update, they're constant and annoyingly they always reset the clock.
FrankNitty
Member
Not meaning to be rude, if I come off that way I sincerely apologize in advance.
Running slides and inputting other users settings is not a "calibration". You're just using someone elses settings and tweaking them. A calibration is tailored to the specifics of your viewing environment and meets set standards for various aspects of PQ which are measured.
Plugging in someone elses settings even if it is the same display can vary as much as 20%.
geordiemp
Member
Hard to get hold of now in UK, too many 'ex demo units knocking around'
so I went with John Lewis - arrives this Friday....pay a little more but 5 yr guarantee
At the moment gone back to gaming (COD) on my very old Panny 42 " plasma and relegated the LG to other duties until 905 arrives...(the panny feels a little faster just playing COD, so I do notice lag)
Jimmy Rustle
Banned
Thinking about buying a Seiki 4k 50 inch. $700 TV that will last me 2 or 3 years sounds like a good investment until Samsung, Sony, LG, etc. start selling affordable 4k TVs.
Heard that with a few customizations people have gotten it to run games at 1440p 60fps, anyone here on Gaf done this?
Heard that with a few customizations people have gotten it to run games at 1440p 60fps, anyone here on Gaf done this?
Delt31
Member
so....I came across a Panasonic GT30 55 inch used in mint condition for $600. Comes with Skype camera, usb wifi dongle, 2 3d glasses, etc. I think this is a really good deal right? I was almost about to pull the trigger on the w900a but apparently the lag on this is 25ms which is great and good pic. W900a is 1500. Any thoughts guys?
Delt31
Member
Really? based on what I've seen on ebay, online it seems really good.....anyone else?
I own a GT30, and I switched to the w900a for gaming because the lag was not 25ms on the GT30, the plasma is now my living room TV/movie center. I would almost say the w900a is the same picture quality with blacks and color reproduction and that's with the GT30 professionally calibrated.
Delt31
Member
right before I was going to buy the gt30 for 600 another craigslist deal was listed. Get this - 55 inch ST 50 for $550. One user, mint condition. I instantly jumped on it. Drove 3 hours to get it. It's def mint condition and is awesome. For that price, it's an insane deal. I heard this tv has good game lag ratings too.
I know the w900a is equal in picture and less lag but it's also 1500 and that's at east coast tv. Normal retailers charge close to 2k. For $550 i'm going with the st50 to see if it quenches the need. For that price, even if it doesn't work out, I could resell for $1000 or more and put the profit towards the w900a as that is the clear alternative at this point. I just want to make sure I try out the other options before splurging.
I know the w900a is equal in picture and less lag but it's also 1500 and that's at east coast tv. Normal retailers charge close to 2k. For $550 i'm going with the st50 to see if it quenches the need. For that price, even if it doesn't work out, I could resell for $1000 or more and put the profit towards the w900a as that is the clear alternative at this point. I just want to make sure I try out the other options before splurging.
Haint
Member
Bad idea assuming you're talking about the 2013 Seiki with HDMI 1.4 that doesn't handle any type of 4k/60 input. Vizio's forthcoming 50" 4k P-series should be well worth the wait and the extra $300 (gonna be $999 unless something has changed). Last I heard it's HDMI 2.0 with 4k/60 AND 1080p/120 officially, and may have similar "customizations" for other resolutions/refresh rates. The Seiki is also reputed to have horrible scaling, so I'm not sure 1440/60 would be any improvement over a 1080p set (if not a notable downgrade).
I'm planning on getting a nice tv for my college dorm next year. All I really care about is around 40'-50' max and 1080p and the cheapest price. It will be used to play ps4 and WiiU games. What would you guys suggest? I won't be buying it until later in the summer but I am starting to look now.
mitchman
Gold Member
Samsung you mean? If you can get hold of a panasonic plasma, go for it.
Oh yeah. Force of habit typing Panasonic before plasma. I would love to get an ST60 but alas.
I'm assuming most are aware of this option ... but in case some were not, there are several Sears stores in the US that still have Panasonic plasmas in stock.
Only available for store pickup, no shipping currently.
Most are floor models.
Not a ton of them available, but maybe someone will get lucky,
You can check stock here :
50" ST60
$632.93 - $999.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/50-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111556&mode=seeAll
55" ST60
$1,049.93 - $1,349.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/55-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111894&mode=seeAll
60" ST60
$599.93 - $1,499.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/60-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111558&mode=seeAll
50" S60
$399.93 - $649.88
http://www.searsoutlet.com/50-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111362&mode=seeAll
Only available for store pickup, no shipping currently.
Most are floor models.
Not a ton of them available, but maybe someone will get lucky,
You can check stock here :
50" ST60
$632.93 - $999.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/50-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111556&mode=seeAll
55" ST60
$1,049.93 - $1,349.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/55-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111894&mode=seeAll
60" ST60
$599.93 - $1,499.99
http://www.searsoutlet.com/60-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111558&mode=seeAll
50" S60
$399.93 - $649.88
http://www.searsoutlet.com/50-Class.../d/product_details.jsp?pid=111362&mode=seeAll
daemissary
Member
Oh man, there is a new S60 that is 66 miles away from me. So tempting.
See You Next Wednesday
Banned
The new crop of TV's still haven't hit the market.