Antiwhippy
the holder of the trombone
Alright. So the skill tree stuff is just how many of a specific type of magic we can use right?
Divinity: Original Sin Beta - Christopher lives to see another day..
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Alright. So the skill tree stuff is just how many of a specific type of magic we can use right?
Is it? Maybe they've changed that fairly recently. It used to just determine how powerful that element is when you use it, and you couldn't learn high level stuff without a high level in the skill. Sounds like a good change for hybrids.
I had a couple issues, but I think that's more because my PC isn't up to snuff more than anything. I still need to mess with the settings more.
It's certainly more closely related to Bastion than Dragon Age: Origins but the combat system I think is something that should be copied for future designs in RTwP games.
It may be harder to pull off with multiple classes and skill sets however.
First of all, I'm pretty sure co-op is limited to 2 players without mods. When someone joins for co-op, they just take over the other player character, and I've read that they take over a recruited NPC too. If you start a new game in co-op, you can each customize your own character, but from then on, the characters belong to the saved game itself, not to the players.
While on the subject, there is a trait called Lone Wolf that makes it so the PC with Lone Wolf cannot recruit an NPC. The other PC still can, unless they also pick that trait. So it effectively reduces your maximum party size by one, in return for making that character stronger. You'll always have two PCs though, as far as I know.
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So I'm confused as to certain character attributes and how they contribute to the game - since you can only control one character at a time.
Perception for example. Do you need to manually be in control of that character to get the added 'sight', or when you hit ALT does it just take the highest perception bonus of the party no matter who you're controlling? What if you have 2 characters with really high perception, does their benefit stack in any sort of way?
What about the Lucky Charm ability? Does that character have to specifically be the one that opens the chest or box? Is there no point in having more than one character with Lucky Charm then?
Perception for example. Do you need to manually be in control of that character to get the added 'sight', or when you hit ALT does it just take the highest perception bonus of the party no matter who you're controlling? What if you have 2 characters with really high perception, does their benefit stack in any sort of way?
What about the Lucky Charm ability? Does that character have to specifically be the one that opens the chest or box? Is there no point in having more than one character with Lucky Charm then?
Like I said above, in any co-op, if someone joins you, they take control of one of your characters. They don't bring their own.
I don't think perception stacks in any way, other than the fact that you have two guys looking out for traps and such. If you have one with higher sight than the other, then you'll just see farther no matter which character you're controlling, since you can always see what all characters can see. Lucky Charm probably works the way you think it does, but I'm really not sure. Maybe it's a party skill everyone contributes to. I'd like to know too.
I got that. What I meant is how do you actually start/join a co-op game?
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I bought that one yesterday too. Uninstalled it after an hour. The RTS combat is really boring - basically boiling down to spam building units faster than the other guy. Very little strategy in regard to positioning and such. And being a dragon felt really weak and underwhelming.
Just tried messing around with my settings, ran Heaven and played some DS2 to make sure it wasn't my video card and nope, I get a stutter every 3-4 seconds. If the final game is like this I will be quite pissed to say the least.
MisterShine
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The RTS portion is very weak indeed. The story, characters and political machinations you go through.... Hoo boy, good shit.
Play it more like a Total War game where you auto-resolve pretty much every fight. You might enjoy it more that way.
Scrooge McDuck
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Aw, so the co-op partner wouldn't have any progression of their own? That's rather... discouraging.
Oh I see. The way I did it is I just started my saved game and then invited a friend on Steam to join me. If you want to start a new game as co-op, then you just pick multiplayer and new game on the menu and invite someone.
Yeah, progression is tied exclusively to the saved game. Whoever has it can continue on their own without a co-op partner. I'm not sure if you can share the saves while in the game, but yeah, I think they expect that if you start playing in co-op, you'll keep playing co-op with that person. It's not very drop-in, drop-out friendly in that way.
RTwP ends up being "I just let my guys flurry the enemy to death". You can't dodge like in a true action rpg with movement, nor have any meaningful options except "use skill XYZ". It inherently requires less strategy due to the nature of the "real time" part. It makes the encounters feel less strategic as they are often designed to be "right click" bullet sponges - even bosses as you want a battle to go on for x minutes. In TB that's easy and feels natural. In RTwP that means an artificial huge health pool. I have yet to play a RTwP game where that wasn't the case. Torment, Never Winter Nights, Baldurs Gate you name it. Without movement turns smart positioning is nigh unusable except for the first cast. One of the better RTwP gameplay games is Dragon Age Origins. And even there my melee ended up being an auto-attacking-aura-bot, that I barely needed to control. I just dunno, even tho it should be MORE engaging for the user, it often ends up requiring less interaction from the player than FF13.
This is the best way to enjoy it - the RTS stuff gets a little more involved in later chapters, but the character stuff is all excellent.
Why wouldn't you just play EUIV then? The only reason to consider Total War is because of the battles. Without them, it's a shallow Paradox game.
You can pretty much cheese through the RTS fights with upgraded Shamans. I can annihilate ANY battle (except Sea battles) with any unit (even a mere soldier). Just build SHAMANS asap and then just use the mind control to make the enemy fight his own units. After you have a big Shaman army, just build some canon tanks or something to close it out faster, or Baloons. Dragon helps too - it's a really strong unit.
Has anyone actually done a "well-implemented" RTwP system? Bad pathfinding is rampant and they tend to dumb-down environmental interaction since they're really designed for just automating your party with simplistic, unstrategic rulesets of sorts.
They make easy fights less tedious, yes... but there are solutions to that outside of the combat system itself.
How are your companions handled in this game? Can you control them in combat? Or are they always run by the AI?
I'm sorry, but if you didn't find strategic positioning useful in BG, or IWD, or NWN2 (particularly SoZ which has the most strategic battles) then that's not the fault of the gameplay system.
Seriously, there's nothing TB can't do that RTwP doesn't have the potential to do better.
NWN2: SoZ is probably the best modern example. But (other than easily fixed technical issues i.e. pathfinding) IWD1 and 2 were also great.
D
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I may have to go back to that and auto-resolve everything if that's an option, because I really, really didn't like the RTS stuff. Then again, I only like traditional base-building RTS games like Warcraft, Command & Conquer, and Starcraft.
It was supposed to be released today, but they delayed it until the 30th which makes me sad cause that's not at the start of a weekend, but the start of a week...which blows ass.
hemtae
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Wasn't there something about a dream RPG that they wanted to make awhile ago?
Sentenza
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Wondering what we should expect.
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I already feel lost and stuck.
I've been dinking around in the first city for awhile, solving the murder stuff mainly. I'm level 3 and now all my clues and side-quests lead me out of the city - where I'm either confronted by large groups of level 4 undead or level 6 orcs. I get my ass kicked.
Am I going the wrong way, underleveled (where else can I level up?) or is the game just that hard?
I've been dinking around in the first city for awhile, solving the murder stuff mainly. I'm level 3 and now all my clues and side-quests lead me out of the city - where I'm either confronted by large groups of level 4 undead or level 6 orcs. I get my ass kicked.
Am I going the wrong way, underleveled (where else can I level up?) or is the game just that hard?
LurkerPrime
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Real-time with pause systems are much easier to use for the most part, I would agree to that. But saying that RTwP can do anything better than turn-based systems is a big fat fib.
Real-time with pause systems are hamstrung by their need to be played out in real-time; by their very nature, they must obfuscate the mechanics from the player to ensure everything works smoothly. Attack and movement ranges in meters or feet instead of hexes or spaces is inherently obscure (in a video game) and works against a player's ability to strategise. Real-time with pause sacrifices precision of movement and clarity of choice in an effort to make the game faster and more easy to understand.
Turn-based games like XCOM or Fire Emblem would not work with a real-time, pausable system - it would compromise core aspects of their respective designs. The former is designed around percentage-based risk-taking, and the latter around tactical certainty - transforming them into real-time with pause games would undermine the very foundation of their respective designs, and would in no way improve them. At best, a real-time with pause system would act as a poor crutch for the lack of a turn-based system, periodically pausing the game so tactical decisions can be made.
Turn-based systems are not inferior, so don't be a fibber, Durante.
I am way too excited.
Lv3 is an okay point to venture outside but note what the guards at the gate say, if they wish you well or if they warn you of dangers. That will help point you in the easier direction. Also note that you can pick up companions. There are two in Cyseal in the beta. Large groups of enemies are to be expected!
Let's see how you justify that position.
How so? I don't see any reason for that to be true, and you don't make an argument, just a statement.
How does it sacrifice precision of movement? In fact, most (inferior) turn-based systems restrict themselves to squares or hexes (luckily not Divinity), and those clearly do restrict both precision and choice.
I'd argue that any luck-based system is inherently nonstrategic. Is Go luck-based? Chess? Starcraft?
Statistical chance is at best an abstraction you use if you have no other choice.
You are aware that your save file is going to be invalid in a week right?
Sentenza
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I would *absolutely* disagree.
On a side note, unlike you I also have a very ill opinion of pretty much everything about NWN2, so I really wouldn't take anything about its combat system as a model.
It's really sad that you are all so wrong. I pray that you will see the light when PoE releases.
I replayed IWD this year, and I had more significant positioning and interesting strategic plans and fights in that game than most any turn-based title I can remember. And all while still being able to resolve boring parts of fights extremely quickly and painlessly.
I replayed IWD this year, and I had more significant positioning and interesting strategic plans and fights in that game than most any turn-based title I can remember. And all while still being able to resolve boring parts of fights extremely quickly and painlessly.
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flaxknuckles
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I just bought your stupid dlc Larian.
RTWP can be done right (like in say Aarklash Legacy for a modern example), but NWN2's combat is just a bloody mess top to bottom.
The ie games had terrible combat back in the day. I can barely imagine how awful they'd be now.
lol. Joke post? The ie mechanics alone make what you say pretty much impossible.
They are great. Particularly IWD and BG2.
How so? Next time I play one of them I'll take a few Shadowplay videos.
Swen (Larian's owner) has been talking about the RPG to end all RPGs for a few years now. He says he wants his studio to complete a few games before attempting it but he also mentioned how Original Sin turned out far better than he expected so the SUPER RPG might have been pushed forward a bit.
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