Feel good about Microsoft first party after E3?

Yeah sorry, I'll cut less out. Just wanted to respond right to the Fable sucking part.

The Witcher 3 doesn't save the day there for me though - I buy any RPG that's good, not just one to play heh. Even with that game coming out, I'd still look forward to a good Fable game and it would be a contributing factor to buying an Xbox One. The Witcher 3 is a PS4 game for me and not at all relevant to me wanting an Xbox One or not. None of the multiplatform games are a factor when I consider purchasing one. Microsoft showing a solid, big, "normal" Fable game would have gone a long way to persuading me to buy their system.

Besides, Fable games and The Witcher have practically nothing in common, that's like comparing Uncharted to Batman games just because they belong to the same broad action adventure genre.

ReKon, it's incredibly easy to play the "but why buy platform X because of Y when Z on another platform is better?" game with any console. But that's where things like personal tastes come into play. Last gen I cared far more about Too Human than I could ever care about God of War, for instance, and someone could find more joy in SOCOM Confrontation than in any Halo. You have your own perception of the situation, but it doesn't necessarily have to be shared by others.
 
Sunset Overdrive is the only Xbox One exclusive I'm somewhat interested in. Otherwise, their first-party offerings can be summed up as deep, but not very broad. I'm still somewhat dumbstruck by all the people purportedly buying the system just for the Masterchief collection, especially when every single one of the games it contains can be played right now on the Xbox360 they already own.

Either way, I'm kind of resigned not to get the system until the inevitable slim model releases. I'm hopeful its library will be a bit more fleshed out by then.
 
If we go by history, Should SO becomes successful it likely isn't going anywhere. See Gears of War.
Yeah, people never look at other factors other than IP ownership. It's likely that the publisher would have rights of first refusal. Also, it's hard enough to get a publisher in the first place. There's a reason why developers will continue to work with the same publisher over and over again.

Are there any recent examples of major series that switched publishers without the developer being bought?
 
Yea lol, I was wondering if I was the only one who caught that "and beyond" part (also reinforced by the fact that none of the CG trailers they showed would even put a vague '2015' release window up for the game.
Looks to me like MS has the X1 lined up to receive a steady stream of 4-5 big AAA exclusives every year, just look at this list as proof, its like a pattern. I wouldn't be surprised if they announced several 2017 games at next year E3 too unfortunately...

2013
1.) DR3
2.) Forza 5
3.) Killer Instinct
4.) Ryse
2014
1.) Titanfall
2.) Sunset Overdrive
3.) Forza Horizon 2
4.) Project Spark
5.) Halo MCC
2015
1.) Halo 5 Gaurdians
2.) Fable Leagends
3.) Forza 6
4.) Quantum Break
2016
1.) Gears
2.) Crackdown
3.) Phantom Dust
4.) Scalebound
5.) Forza Horizon 3

They should have Rares next game, Lionheads new IP, and Class 4 from Undead Labs in 15/16 also. I expect twisted pixels next game to be out in 2015 since they were done LocoCycle in 2013 but delayed it to port it to X1 launch. Also, Press Play will have their next "big" project by 15/16. Project Totem from them is being worked on by a small group of people.
 
Their first party as a publisher? Yeh, I feel very good about it. Lots of interesting titles on the horizon (to me anyway): Sunset Overdrive, Quantum Break, Scalebound, Ori and the Blind Forest, D4, Phantom Dust and Crackdown all with outside teams... Halo 5 + MCC, Gears, Forza, Fable internally plus other stuff.

Undead Labs will end up being huge based on how awesome State of Decay is personally.

First party as in the studios they own? Yes and no...
Not convinced by Fable Legends personally yet but looking forward to whatever their new IP ends up being.
They need to let Rare work on their older IPs, its a no brainer with the Xbox One's current market situation and also seems like a waste if they don't.
Losing the Black Tusk new IP was disappointing for me personally as excited as I am for Gears, I feel like they should have been able to make both, but I understand why MS didn't want to do that
Twisted Pixel, well Lococycle was... not great personally but their new IP concept art looked different and I'm interested in that
Press Play I like, seem like a great studio
Team Dakota, im not sure about the last appeal of Project Spark but it is cool
I hope Lift London eventually work on console as well but I doubt they will

They need to beef up their studios with some acquisitions partly to increase the size and partly to ensure that they don't lose development partners to other publishers (see Bioware, Bizarre plus others). Personally Remedy make sense to me as does Playground but it depends if they want to be acquired (which I doubt) but they also opening new studios.
They should look at areas with lots of talent (and tax breaks, like Montreal) to tap into and open a Japanese developer too, it strikes me as strange they never opened a Japanese studio to pump out exclusives for them

Its a mixed bag, but I am very happy with the games Microsoft are making for Xbox One, lots of stuff that interests me
 
They should have Rares next game, Lionheads new IP, and Class 4 from Undead Labs in 15/16 also. I expect twisted pixels next game to be out in 2015 since they were done LocoCycle in 2013 but delayed it to port it to X1 launch. Also, Press Play will have their next "big" project by 15/16. Project Totem from them is being worked on by a small group of people.

Lionhead just started prototyping their next new IP. Personally, I don't expect it to come before 2017.
 
They should have Rares next game, Lionheads new IP, and Class 4 from Undead Labs in 15/16 also. I expect twisted pixels next game to be out in 2015 since they were done LocoCycle in 2013 but delayed it to port it to X1 launch. Also, Press Play will have their next "big" project by 15/16. Project Totem from them is being worked on by a small group of people.

and Ori
 
Thoroughly unimpressed so far. If you aren't already invested in the future iterations of Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable there's slim pickings besides games far out in the future announced with only CG trailers.

Third parties carrying the load has been known for awhile so it's not really surprising but all the first party offerings from these console makers has been mediocre at best.
Not seeing anything that will make me pick up the console any time soon.
 
I understand, I just thought I'd share what Nintendo's overall release pipeline is, since you said you're not that familiar.

Like you said, it's not that thorough, a lot of assumptions, etc...but it's about somewhere there, give or take. I actually put out a revised one that had ? at the end of games with no release details like Rime/Rapture orz. It's my own personal list, so it's not exactly vetted or carefully removed of inconsistencies.
Appreciate the list, keep it up. It's always good to get a ballpark of what is coming up for all platform holders.
 
Not just yet, still need to see more than the CG trailers they showed. They have convinced me to keep my X1 for the time being though.
 
2013
1.) DR3
2.) Forza 5
3.) Killer Instinct
4.) Ryse
2014
1.) Titanfall
2.) Sunset Overdrive
3.) Forza Horizon 2
4.) Project Spark
5.) Halo MCC
6.) Killer Instinct Season 2 (on streams they have said this will be like going from SFIV to Super - more than just character dlc)
7.) D4 (apparently still coming out this year)
8.) Ori and the Blind Forest (seen it reported that MS own the IP)
2015
1.) Halo 5 Gaurdians
2.) Fable Leagends
3.) Forza 6
4.) Quantum Break
2016
1.) Gears
2.) Crackdown
3.) Phantom Dust
4.) Scalebound
5.) Forza Horizon 3

A couple additions.
 
Yeah, people never look at other factors other than IP ownership. It's likely that the publisher would have rights of first refusal. Also, it's hard enough to get a publisher in the first place. There's a reason why developers will continue to work with the same publisher over and over again.

Yes, a publisher usually plays a major role in determining a game's market performance. Likewise, just like in any line of work, many people will prefer working with a great partner and in a pleasant work environment than making more money. If a studio is satisfied with a publisher, they're unlikely to change it. Those factors are often overlooked, but when you look at the history of developer-publisher relations, they shouldn't be.


Are there any recent examples of major series that switched publishers without the developer being bought?

First party series? I can't think of any, apart form those that were sold off, like Crash Bandicoot.
 
Platinum and Insomniac aren't first party studios, so no, not really. I haven't cared about Halo since Halo 2, and Crackdown 2 and Fable 3 have lowered my expectations for their respective series. Also I don't play racing games.

That said, as far as XBone exclusives, Sunset Overdrive looks fun, and a Platinum dragon game should be absurd.

Still a long way until it's worth $400 + games for me, though.
 
I have a ps4 and wanted to have good announcements as well but microsofts conference was easily better. Wish I could get phantom dust, killer instinct and kamiyas game
 
I kinda expect Microsoft to kind of go crazy with game like they did on the Xbox with some really strange IPs.

Please bring back Crimson Skies
 
Not really. Microsoft needs to create and acquire studios for me to be confident in their 1st party output.

That's not how they do business though. Spencer has talked about it, and they'll look at if owning the studio is actually beneficial to them and the devs or if just contracting them to make the game is better. This is why we see companies like Insomniac and Platinum taking the contracts to bring an exclusive game to the Xbox One because the studios still get to do their thing across other platforms and make money while developing these titles.
 
Phantom Dust and Crackdown 3 by realtime worlds part 2 made this the best xbox console in my opinion, if Phil brings back Banjo and Crimson Skies then this console will topple the snes in my mind.
 
That's not how they do business though. Spencer has talked about it, and they'll look at if owning the studio is actually beneficial to them and the devs or if just contracting them to make the game is better. This is why we see companies like Insomniac and Platinum taking the contracts to bring an exclusive game to the Xbox One because the studios still get to do their thing across other platforms and make money while developing these titles.

There's no reason they can't continue to fund games while creating their own studios. And unless they own the IP of the games they fund, there's a possibility they'll end up on competing platforms, in which case, why wouldn't I buy the best performing version?
 
Nah. Didn't care for anything besides Halo but I hope I can resist it, even though the game(s) is a fantastic deal.

I'll buy an Xbox One the day Scalebound comes out though.
 
There's no reason they can't continue to fund games while creating their own studios. And unless they own the IP of the games they fund, there's a possibility they'll end up on competing platforms, in which case, why wouldn't I buy the best performing version?

Microsoft doesn't own the Sunset Overdrive IP, but I will bet they have first say on publishing rights on the franchise from here on out. It's how they handled Gears of War and they never actually owned the IP until last year. Microsoft typically works out a deal where they get first say on publishing for sequels on titles. Mass Effect was an odd case because Bioware was purchased by EA effectively voiding that deal with Microsoft on the first Mass Effect.

They have their own studios and they're all working on stuff. Microsoft doesn't act like Sony in that they don't put priority on owning the IP or the studio but would rather want exclusive publishing rights for games.
 
You have to believe. Tell me you believe, Chobel.

Tell me you believe.

I want to believe, but I don't want to be excited just to end disappointed once again.

That Conker thing in Project Spark E3 trailer broke my heart, it was really cruel.
Fuck you MS
 
Thoroughly unimpressed so far. If you aren't already invested in the future iterations of Halo/Gears/Forza/Fable there's slim pickings besides games far out in the future announced with only CG trailers.

Third parties carrying the load has been known for awhile so it's not really surprising but all the first party offerings from these console makers has been mediocre at best.
Not seeing anything that will make me pick up the console any time soon.

Speak for yourself. They showed a lot i was interested in that had nothing to do with any of those games.
 
Less projects, better quality.

One would hope.

All of these games will most likely track 7.5 or better. Just depends if you are into then Xbox brand or not.

What they have shown looks cool.
 
Microsoft doesn't own the Sunset Overdrive IP, but I will bet they have first say on publishing rights on the franchise from here on out. It's how they handled Gears of War and they never actually owned the IP until last year. Microsoft typically works out a deal where they get first say on publishing for sequels on titles.

I'm not sure if that's true. I've seen it stated as fact many times, but I've never seen anyone produce the tiniest bit of evidence that Microsoft has ever had the right of first refusal. However, that doesn't mean that their development partners can just go and take their Microsoft-published games elsewhere. As a publisher, they fund most of those projects, and they have contracts protecting that investment. Even when they don't own the IP, they own publishing rights for the games that they publish. I suppose the details vary from contract to contract, but I'm sure that they at least keep exclusive publishing rights on consoles for every game that they fund. And even though developers can choose to work with someone else on sequels, that normally doesn't happen for a number of reasons, as discussed above.


Mass Effect was an odd case because Bioware was purchased by EA effectively voiding that deal with Microsoft on the first Mass Effect.

Mass Effect was indeed an exception, but I doubt that the buyout voided their contract for the first game. It probably did void their plans for the trilogy, however, and they probably agreed with EA to let go of the first game in exchange for other benefits (timed exclusivity on the sequels, among other things).
 
Scalebound and Halo are enough for me. I'm more worried about Sony, the only thing they showed that interested me was Bloodborn.
 
I want to believe, but I don't want to be excited just to end disappointed once again.

That Conker thing in Project Spark E3 trailer broke my heart, it was really cruel.
Fuck you MS

Yeah, the Conker in Spark reveal really pissed MD off. Haven't been that angry and upset in quite some time.

Still, I remain hopeful that RARE are working on their core IP again now that MS seems to be distancing themselves a little from Kinect. Or at least any future RARE games will offer both Kinect and controller support.
 
I feel really good about it. Spencers has only been in office for a few months as well as the MS CEO. Most of that stuff was already setup under the previous administration. I have full fave now though that more $ is going to be invested for IP and 2nd/3rd party exclusives. I feel Spencer would have already done that if he had control 2 or 3 years ago. So its gonna take time but I do feel Its going to be back to good spot in a year or too. I wouldn't be suprised if there was a huge increase in spending for funding of new IP and old IP under spencer in the coming years. He just gets it. This coming from a fan who's been screaming for a new leadership for 3 years now. Many I just have blinders on but the stuff I've sen Xbox do in the past months have me extremeley excited. I like it when they are backed in a corner and come out swinging
 
People want to buy a console because they showed a cgi trailer? Wow.

I saw nothing groundbreaking yet. I won't buy a console for a cgi trailer of a game that could be anything between a 1-10/10.

But they showed that they are going to have a good amount of games for the next years. How they turn out? We will see.
 
Yeah, the Conker in Spark reveal really pissed MD off. Haven't been that angry and upset in quite some time.

Still, I remain hopeful that RARE are working on their core IP again now that MS seems to be distancing themselves a little from Kinect. Or at least any future RARE games will offer both Kinect and controller support.

Yea that does suck for conker fans i feel bad for yall. I was never really a fan so it didnt affect me but i can see why it would make you mad.

As far as RARE goes, everyone keeps saying that all the staff that made Rare who they were in the late 90's and early 2000 have left. So while I want to see Banjo and others again, im cautiously optimistic as to how those games would turn out. Hopeully Spencer and Lobb will bring in some more developers that can fully flesh out those studios and create the games that those franchises deserve and not just some cash grab. But from hearing those 2 talk it seems like they are about making games with the right teams at the right time. Example being crackdown coming back with the original creator Dave Jones
 
There's two Halo games in the works, another first-party studio got pulled off another project to work on Gears and PG are working on Forza:Horizon while T10 is probably working on Forza 6. Rare is doing Fable.

I'd call that a pretty familiar cycle, yes.
I never said that's all they are making, but they are clearly keen on continuing the trend, wouldn't you agree?

Did I miss the news thread about Nintendo and Sony cutting off development of all their mainstay franchises?

Care to link me to them?
 
Microsoft doesn't own the Sunset Overdrive IP, but I will bet they have first say on publishing rights on the franchise from here on out. It's how they handled Gears of War and they never actually owned the IP until last year. Microsoft typically works out a deal where they get first say on publishing for sequels on titles. Mass Effect was an odd case because Bioware was purchased by EA effectively voiding that deal with Microsoft on the first Mass Effect.

They have their own studios and they're all working on stuff. Microsoft doesn't act like Sony in that they don't put priority on owning the IP or the studio but would rather want exclusive publishing rights for games.

And yet the possibility remains Sunset Overdrive can go multiplatform and thus gamers will hold out hope and wait and wait until either they can buy the game cheap or on a better performing platform. There will always be uncertainty surrounding games by external studios unless Microsoft have the IP completely locked down.

Gears of War worked out great for them. It became a billion dollar franchise synonymous with third person action games. We also know Microsoft had to pay a pretty penny to acquire that IP - in fact, they even killed a new IP by one newly created studios, Black Tusk, to fast track making a return on that acquisition. I'd argue Microsoft would've been better off owning the Gears of War IP right from the beginning.

I wasn't going to bring up Mass Effect because I know that's a different situation altogether unlikely repeat itself.

Microsoft have their own studios, yes, but which one of them is really known for being an amazing studio that makes great games, 343? They made a great looking game but many would argue it's not a particularly good Halo game. Turn 10? Forza 5 got lambasted with criticism for their shitty micro transactions. Lionhead? They arguably haven't made a good core game since Fable 2.

When it comes to first party, Microsoft's biggest problem is the fact that they turn every AAA studio they own into a factory for one big IP. Sure, Lionhead is supposedly working on a new franchise, but let's be honest, they should've moved on to something new a long time ago.

If I were in Phil Spencer's position, the first thing I would do is acquire studios that have worked closely with MGS. Remedy, Playground, Ruffian, Frontier Developments - all these studios that have worked on Xbox games and IP that presumably share a good relationship with the Xbox team. Double Helix serves as an example of what happens if Microsoft doesn't pull the trigger on a talented studio. Hell, Bioware should've taught them their lesson on owning the studios that create games they fund.

From there, I'd go out and acquire studios that I know are open to acquisition or probably soon won't have a choice due to financial woes, e.g. like Harmonix. I'd be aggressive and assertive about getting as much proven talent on board as well as creating new studios.

What's more, I'd make sure these studios worked in multiple teams on multiple IP to keep them cycling and avoid layoffs whilst creating new experiences without letting older IP get to stale or lead to franchise fatigue.

Xbox needs 1st party studios that are not only diverse but are allowed creative freedom and are allowed to take risk when they've earned it with new IPs - look at just how well that payed off for Sony with Naughty Dog? Those guys cranked a few critically and commercially well received Uncharted games before creating The Last of Us, and I shouldn't have to tell you how successful that new IP is.

All of the above is what Phil Spencer should be doing to improve on 1st party. Sure, funding a promising game from an external studio should still be on the table, but it shouldn't be what Microsoft relies on to support Xbox.
 
If I were in Phil Spencer's position, the first thing I would do is acquire studios that have worked closely with MGS. Remedy, Playground, Ruffian, Frontier Developments - all these studios that have worked on Xbox games and IP that presumably share a good relationship with the Xbox team. Double Helix serves as an example of what happens if Microsoft doesn't pull the trigger on a talented studio. Hell, Bioware should've taught them their lesson on owning the studios that create games they fund.

From there, I'd go out and acquire studios that I know are open to acquisition or probably soon won't have a choice due to financial woes, e.g. like Harmonix. I'd be aggressive and assertive about getting as much proven talent on board as well as creating new studios.

What's more, I'd make sure these studios worked in multiple teams on multiple IP to keep them cycling and avoid layoffs whilst creating new experiences without letting older IP get to stale or lead to franchise fatigue.

Xbox needs 1st party studios that are not only diverse but are allowed creative freedom and are allowed to take risk when they've earned it with new IPs - look at just how well that payed off for Sony with Naughty Dog? Those guys cranked a few critically and commercially well received Uncharted games before creating The Last of Us, and I shouldn't have to tell you how successful that new IP is.

All of the above is what Phil Spencer should be doing to improve on 1st party. Sure, funding a promising game from an external studio should still be on the table, but it shouldn't be what Microsoft relies on to support Xbox.

Double Helix is NOT a talented studio. Almost every game they made up to KI was a bomb. That is why there was so much skeptism leading up to its release. You cant purchase a studio like that just for recreating a game using essentially all the same assets and mechanics. Now Amazon has them and we will judge when those come out. But double helix isnt a quality studio.

Everything else you said I agree with. But the man has only been in charge for a few months. Being head of studios and being head of the entire division is two different things. Most likely he never had the authority to buy studios until now. Especially since the previous Head made the entire division focus so hard on the Kinect and cross-media offerings.

Like I said its a situation that takes time. And as of now the Xbox is already in a better position than where it was 2 years ago. So lets be patient. I know as gamers its hard
 
And I'll get excited about crackdown when they actually show the game.

Until then it is just the same Forza, Fable, Halo cycle as normal.

Same here. Perhaps the first party offerings will be more interesting in a year or two, but right now it's just the same old stuff and cg trailers. E3 was a fine show, but it in no way sold me on an Xbox purchase.
 
Double Helix is NOT a talented studio. Almost every game they made up to KI was a bomb. That is why there was so much skeptism leading up to its release. You cant purchase a studio like that just for recreating a game using essentially all the same assets and mechanics. Now Amazon has them and we will judge when those come out. But double helix isnt a quality studio.

Everything else you said I agree with. But the man has only been in charge for a few months. Being head of studios and being head of the entire division is two different things. Most likely he never had the authority to buy studios until now. Especially since the previous Head made the entire division focus so hard on the Kinect and cross-media offerings.

Like I said its a situation that takes time. And as of now the Xbox is already in a better position than where it was 2 years ago. So lets be patient. I know as gamers its hard
Double Helix made a good turn around after KI and Strider (both good games), that's why it stung to see them purchased so soon after putting those two out. I'd certainly agree with the sentiment that it was a missed opportunity for MS.

And Phil Spencer absolutely had the power to buy studios in his prior position, in his interview at IGN he said as much.
 
I thought it was good. Only 2-3 games really grab my attention as something to look forward to and anticipate every year. MS had two at their press conference that they're publishing, Phantom Dust and Kamiya, so for me that's a ton and way more than I was expecting from any first party or platform holder published.
 
And IP ownership will stop that from happening? just look at what happened to Demon's Souls -> Dark Souls, owning the IP means nothing when you have to deal with 3rd parties so what's stopping (in theory) From to make a Beastborne under say Namco if Bloodborne becomes a hit?

What I'm saying is owning the IP won't stop 3rd parties to go multiplatform (even if it's not a direct sequel) if they want to.

The situation you're referring to is Sony letting a surprise hit slip through their fingers. It's not going to happen again. You're not going to see a blatant copy of an ip owned by another studio like that.
And he IS right on Sunset Overdrive, and Microsoft in general; they put big money out for Sunset Overdrive and Titanfall, yet either franchise can and will wind up on other platforms. Most of what they're creating internally isn't all that exciting, and it seems to me 343 can't do a great Halo game by themselves, but instead have to ride Bungie's coat tails.
Now I'm reading they don't own Ryse either? Ugh! Compare that with Sony where you have far more pools of better talent developing content that will never see the light of day on another console.
To Microsoft's benefit I think they've got the better library out of the gate, but they need to step it up. Instead of paying huge money for Titanfall, bring back Crimson Skies, Mech Assault, and Hydro Thunder! Compete with your ips, and not ones that will wind up elsewhere in time.
 
Did I miss the news thread about Nintendo and Sony cutting off development of all their mainstay franchises?

Care to link me to them?

I don't know about Nintendo.

But Guerrilla Games is working on a entirely new game in a different genre. Evolution isn't making another Motorstorm but are making Driveclub.
Naughty Dog just made a new GOTY-winning IP at the tail end of last-gen. Now on U4.
SCE Santa Monica is working with RAD on The Order 1886.
Media Molecule is working on a new IP after Tearaway, which also was a new IP.
SCE Japan Studio is working with From Software on Bloodborne, and with Capcom on Deep Down. Both new IP's. Just made Knack as well.

Team ICO, Polyphony, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla Cambridge, Sony Bend, Quantic Dream all up in the air. This is all first-party and yet i'm probably still forgetting a bunch.
Sure their mainstay franchises are inevitably coming, but they seem to have no trouble exploring beyond their mainstay as well.
 
Why, what changed at E3 with regard to Microsoft first party exactly? It's still the same merry go round of Fable, Forza and Halo that has been pretty much the entirety of what MS makes themselves for years now.

Captain Platitude was full of bluster about gamesgamesgames all year and the only good looking new game we got to see was Ori, and that's on PC. Every new exclusive announced was a CGI trailer to boot. One of the most disappointing E3s for exclusives MS have ever had imo.

I'm gonna need to see more than Halo ports and 30fps racers to get me excited.
 
I don't know about Nintendo.

But Guerrilla Games is working on a entirely new game in a different genre. Evolution isn't making another Motorstorm but are making Driveclub.
Naughty Dog just made a new GOTY-winning IP at the tail end of last-gen. Now on U4.
SCE Santa Monica is working with RAD on The Order 1886.
Media Molecule is working on a new IP after Tearaway, which also was a new IP.
SCE Japan Studio is working with From Software on Bloodborne, and with Capcom on Deep Down. Both new IP's. Just made Knack as well.

Team ICO, Polyphony, Sucker Punch, Guerrilla Cambridge, Sony Bend, Quantic Dream all up in the air. This is all first-party and yet i'm probably still forgetting a bunch.
Sure their mainstay franchises are inevitably coming, but they seem to have no trouble exploring beyond their mainstay as well.
Quantic Dream and Ready At Dawn are not owned by Sony so no, they're not first party. But I get what you're saying.
 
Quantic Dream and Ready At Dawn are not owned by Sony so no, they're not first party. But I get what you're saying.
From Software and Capcom Online Games aren't either and going by their history Japan Studio likely has little to no involvement in the development of Bloodborne or Deep Down. Team ICO is just staff from Japan Studio too I believe, not a separate distinct team.
 
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