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[The Librarian]

The problem doesn't only affect women though. Its like trying to fix a broken vase with half the pieces.

The fact that this thread is only about the harassment that women receive, and not harassment in the games industry in general is part of the problem, because its not a gendered problem.

If we're solving "harassment" in general, we're going to solve something that affects everyone. If we're solving "women's only harassment" it can alienate men from the cause.

All I'm saying, is unilaterally there'd be a lot less pushback regaqrding the industry if it was fixated on all genders.

I think you should know that what you're saying is another variation of "Men get harassed to, so why should we focus on women?" which undercuts and distracts from the issue at hand.

1. Women are more harassed, on average, than men in the videogame industry and at lart.
2. The reasons why women are harassed, and harassed more than men, stem from different problems than men getting harassed.

These are facts. Saying "men get harassed too" and concluding with by saying "everyone should stop being sexist" isn't at all helpful.

 

[Neiteio]

This is what I do on GAF, actually. I once took part in a gender/sexism discussion on here, voiced an unpopular opinion in a polite and civil way (and I even went to great lengths explaining where that opinion came from) and some moderator who was too dumb to understand my posts and way too trigger-happy accused me of saying weird shit I had never even said and banned me for civilly voicing an unpopular opinion. (Multiple email complaints I subsequently sent were blatantly ignored.) So yeah, I'm not gonna join into these sorts of discussions on GAF anymore and I don't feel like this is a safe, free or open-minded environment to discuss these topics.

These threads get very emotionally charged, and mods are humans, so mistakes can be made. Sometimes I think it might be better to actually start a dialogue with people who seem to have a bigoted standpoint, provided they're polite and seem to listen. Then one might be able to help them come around and actually grow as a person. An immediate ban at the first sign of an unfavorable viewpoint allows no such opportunity for growth, and discourages some people from sharing their own viewpoints and possibly changing. BUT... but... I do understand some people are so deeply entrenched in certain views that there's no point trying.

The mood in these threads can sometimes backfire. I once tried to inject some levity into an otherwise deadly serious Tomodachi Life thread, playfully depicting Reggie as a total bro in the same spirit as my avatar. I was then banned for a month. I understand now it seemed out of place in that thread, so I don't begrudge the mods or anything. It was just a thorn in my mind's eye for awhile, because in my real-life career I've done a lot of work garnering sympathy for same-sex marriage in a battleground state, so to be banned in such a thread and look like a bigot (to anyone who only saw the thread and not what I actually wrote) kinda killed me.

 

[Jinko]

Really sad but not surprising given the anonymity of online communication.

World is full of pathetic sick A-holes and the internet just gives them more courage.

 

[velociraptor]

The 'gaming community' itself is pretty bad. Just look at the abuse people give/receive over FIFA and Call of Duty.

Heck, EA Sports received a shit load of twitter abuse from FIFA fans when they announced FIFA 15.

I can't find the link though.

Basically; angry teens.

 

[Neiteio]

The 'gaming community' itself is pretty bad. Just look at the abuse people give/receive over FIFA and Call of Duty.

Heck, EA Sports received a shit load of twitter abuse from FIFA fans when they announced FIFA 15.

I can't find the link though.

Basically; angry teens.

The FIFA community exhibits this sort of behavior?

 

[Lowmelody]

The rampant 'waifu' shit grinds my nerves to no end. I know it's just good fun and I'm not trying to slag people who use it but it nearly always diminishes the worth of the subject its applied to, reducing all other overt or interesting design aspects to the contours of it's femininity to bridge ownership.

That's just how I see it, not expecting people to agree or calling anyone out.

I do have to say that NeoGaf is a better place for it's future-facing modding tendencies. For better or worse many use this community (and others to be sure) as a weathervane for various things and it's good that a relevant venue can display good faith and insightful discussions of some of the trickiest subjects around while controlling for outdated shit that otherwise dooms such discourse anywhere else. It's as much 'how' to think as it is 'what' to think and this is best imparted though frank and honest discussion I feel.

 

[Fehyd]

I think you should know that what you're saying is another version of "Men get harassed to, so why should we focus on women?" which undercuts distracts from the issue at hand.

1. Women are more harassed, on average, than men in the videogame industry and at lart.
2. The reasons why women are harassed, and harassed more than men, stem from different problems than men getting harassed.

These are facts. Saying "men get harassed to" and concluding with by saying "everyone should stop being sexist" isn't at all helpful.

But whats the harm in saying "everyone stop harassing people?" and then focusing change around that paradigm. It also helps prevent that "women are delicate flowers and require protection" sexist trope, because its not the men whiteknighting women in the workplace, its everyone getting everyone's back in the workplace.

I mean, more men die in the workplace than women (by a large factor). I wouldn't think that being focused on lowering deaths in the workplace regardless of gender was detrimental to men and wouldn't be helpful.

If we're combating the issue, why does it matter what gender you are?

 

[Foggy]

Would it be prudent for the games industry to collectively pursue a way to insulate their employees from this sort of abuse? I know a lot of people in the industry development/journalism/etc. depend on Twitter and Facebook to network and communicate with people, but the ease of anonymity makes dealing with the monsters pretty much impossible. Maybe they should resort to a more insulated social network that can be viewed, but is restricted to people without emails tied to the business?

This certainly isn't a "stick your head in the sand" approach, but I don't think all the fist-waiving and shaming in the world is going to stop someone capable of some of those heinous comments. I just feel it's more realistic than shaming sociopaths, getting Twitter to crackdown in any meaningful way, or pursuing strong legislation against online harassment.

It's definitely not a panacea, but shit, at least it'll help insulate from the scariest elements of the internet.

 

[Northeastmonk]

The 'gaming community' itself is pretty bad. Just look at the abuse people give/receive over FIFA and Call of Duty.

Heck, EA Sports received a shit load of twitter abuse from FIFA fans when they announced FIFA 15.

I can't find the link though.

Basically; angry teens.

We let misery run its course. We can only correct our mistakes once we've realized the destructive nature of our actions. Someone get out the Evanescence CD.

 

[dLMN8R]

The problem doesn't only affect women though. Its like trying to fix a broken vase with half the pieces.

The fact that this thread is only about the harassment that women receive, and not harassment in the games industry in general is part of the problem, because its not a gendered problem.

If we're solving "harassment" in general, we're going to solve something that affects everyone. If we're solving "women's only harassment" it can alienate men from the cause.

All I'm saying, is unilaterally there'd be a lot less pushback regaqrding the industry if it was fixated on all genders.

It's really sad how you're so afraid of being ignored. The second you enter a thread that's not about you or your gender, you need to change the topic to make it about you.

It's like you're so insecure in your privilege and dominance as a (presumably) white male that second this article is written, remotely threatening it, you need to change its trajectory to ensure the world once again revolves around your gender.

Sure it's under the guise of "harassment in general", but if you stopped being so egocentric for a moment and learned more about the problem, you'd quickly learn that "harassment in general" factually implies "mostly women", unfortunately.


The article is about women, and the treatment of women in gaming. Can you just shut up for a second and listen? Let the article speak for itself instead of trying to make sure you're included?

Don't you realize that doing this is directly contributing to the problem? That women who are harassed don't feel safe to bring it up because men like you will just try to dominate the discussion again?

 

[Gestault]

I really don't see how publishers targeting males with sexy pictures is relevant when the discussion should be about females receiving abuse and harassment. Unless you equate the two and at that point we tend to see blurred lines.

See the problem in these discussion often is that someone writes an article about a specific case of abuse (be it in the fighting game community or in the world of Counter Strike) and suddenly we are talking about society as a whole, feminism, how women are living in a world of billboards and constant conditioning. At that point there is just animosity all around, hateful responses, backlash and eventually nothing substantive happens within the gaming community. It's the same shit over and over again. Gonna have to eject now before I get banned.

If a large portion of semiotics for how female characters are utilized in something as broad as gaming tends to be for narrow pandering/titillation/secondary support, you have whole generations growing up with those as the assumed norms unless there's a more potent control against it in their personal lives.

When you can legitimately measure real-world effects of that in trends for how women are regarded in gaming workplace environments, you see a second layer of why people are concerned about this. Particularly as the best way to get sincere, accurate portrayals of women is to have women involved, and you have a systemic issue of the industry being unwelcoming to them, both from audiences and workplace peers.

 

[Thorakai]

The problem doesn't only affect women though. Its like trying to fix a broken vase with half the pieces.

The fact that this thread is only about the harassment that women receive, and not harassment in the games industry in general is part of the problem, because its not a gendered problem.

If we're solving "harassment" in general, we're going to solve something that affects everyone. If we're solving "women's only harassment" it can alienate men from the cause.

All I'm saying, is unilaterally there'd be a lot less pushback regaqrding the industry if it was fixated on all genders.

Just wanted to add to Dax's point as well that you have elements of this http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll where you are more concerned about the delivery or wording used as opposed to the actual issue at hand.

 

[enoki]

I really don't see how publishers targeting males with sexy pictures is relevant when the discussion should be about females receiving abuse and harassment. Unless you equate the two and at that point we tend to see blurred lines.

See the problem in these discussion often is that suddenly we are talking about society as a whole, feminism, how women are living in a world of billboards and constant conditioning and at that point there is just animosity, hateful responses and nothing substantive happens. It's the same shit over and over again and in these threads. Gonna have to eject now before I get banned.

I respectfully disagree, but I can see where you are coming from and I can see how my post gave off the wrong message. The OP and quotes from the article specifically mentioned the constant cues women face in development that make them feel they aren't necessarily welcome in the industry.

“Because I got blank stares when I asked why a female soldier in a game I worked on looked like a porn star,” responded Caryn Vaino, a user interface designer in Seattle

I saw this quote in an earlier post, and it really struck home with me. I don't have any issues whatsoever with the development of a sexually appealing character in a video game. It doesn't bother me to play a male protagonist 95% of the time. I honestly don't see those as issues that exclude women from playing games. It's the idea that you can't question it, and that's there's really no (honest) answer given to this team member when the question is asked. Why does this soldier look like a porn star? That post reminded me of this ad.

I don't think the ad is particularly sexy compared to others, it's a woman holding a weapon. It's the "Men Only" Epic Fantasy Game bit that makes it discussable. It may as well stay "Women Stay Out". Even then, I do realize this is one outlying group of people creating this ad. Those people don't represent you, or others here. However, it exists, and the mentality is still there and I (perhaps mistakenly) considered it relevant to the topic at hand. I don't mind dropping this part of the discussion at all, as I can see that besada was right and it is derailing this thread.

 

[Carcetti]

If we're combating the issue, why does it matter what gender you are?

Because there's a widespread variety of harassment that's aimed at women because they're women? Specific problems can require specific solutions and specific discussions.

 

[Neiteio]

The rampant 'waifu' shit grinds my nerves to no end. I know it's just good fun and I'm not trying to slag people who use it but it nearly always diminishes the worth of the subject its applied to, reducing all other overt or interesting design aspects to the contours of it's femininity to bridge ownership.

That's just how I see it, not expecting people to agree or calling anyone out.

I do have to say that NeoGaf is a better place for it's future-facing modding tendencies. For better or worse many use this community (and others to be sure) as a weathervane for various things and it's good that a relevant venue can display good faith and insightful discussions of some of the trickiest subjects around while controlling for outdated shit that otherwise dooms such discourse anywhere else. It's as much 'how' to think as it is 'what' to think and this is best imparted though frank and honest discussion I feel.

For what it's worth, I think there's a large subset of people who use the word "waifu" or "husbando" mainly because they're amused by the word itself. They can find the character aesthetically appealing, but the usage of the word is mainly just thinking it's funny.

 

[Beefy]

Really sad but not surprising given the anonymity of online communication.

World is full of pathetic sick A-holes and the internet just gives them more courage.

Yep, the internet makes it easier. If people followed the whole "only say things that you are willing to say to some ones face" the World would be a bit better.

 

[besada]

But whats the harm in saying "everyone stop harassing people?" and then focusing change around that paradigm.

Nothing, and you're welcome to do that. What you aren't welcome to do is shit up a thread that's not about all genders, because you felt you've been left out.

This thread exists because a particular person wrote a particular article that one of our members thought was reasonable to discuss. Many people have, in fact, reasonably discussed it.

If you want to approach harassment in a different way, you're welcome to write your own article, make your own group, and even start your own forum. Here, though, we discuss particular topics based on the threads created.

As for why it's often done this way, it's because the harassment of men and women suffer is both quantitatively and qualitatively different. They are not the same thing, regardless of your attempts here to conflate them.

Again, if you are interested in discussing this topic, you're welcome to do so, but if you want to discuss a different topic, or you want people to discuss this topic, but framed in a wildly different way, you're in the wrong thread.

 

[Sera O]

I'd like to hope that NeoGaf is at least more inclusive of women than other sites, or at least, is trying to be.

There are many places online that are far less inclusive to both men and women, so hopefully we can make Gaf much more inclusive.

Well GAF is the only gaming forum I would post on with a nick that indicates I'm female. Obfuscating gender makes life a lot easier online, but I was really tired at the time of hearing stuff about how women are such a tiny subset of the audience for "real games" that it was totally preposterous to expect even the slightest amount of influence. GAF is better than most forums because of the moderation.

There are definitely threads I back out of immediately. Derails into image dumps start. I also avoid threads relating to the newer Persona games/community. I'm not sure if it's because I find them alienating or just because the waifu stuff strikes me as not worth the time to parse to get to any discussion there.

Related to the responses to the article re: anonymity being a factor in people acting like assholes, there are tons of people being ignorant/racist/hateful on facebook or whatnot with real names attached.

The real issue is not anonymity, but consequences from peers. I think that those who spew crap believe they have silent permission to behave that way, and sometimes that they are speaking for a group of people who silently agree.

The implicit assumption about 'real names' is that this will result in real-world consequences. It doesn't pan out that way when you have two parties able to find information about each other, but one is way crazier. Maybe having a real name would help for those cases where it escalates past verbal harrassment, but by then it's too late because something has happened. For the most part, the harassers are just being assholes because they think it's okay to be assholes, they think people agree with them, and it entertains them.

Because what, is a woman getting harrassed supposed to sic people on this commenter to beat them up? Seek law enforcement intervention? Sue them? Even with real names, the only open avenues for real-world consequences are costly for the victim of the harrassment. And to top it all off they will be be greeted with all the comments about being a poor sport, not being able to tell when people are just blowing off steam, not tough enough to take comments, etc.

At best, most people would passively hope that, at some indeterminate point in the future, a potential employer will find out about it while researching hires. Yeah. That's not helpful to the person who is dealing with it now.

Anyway, I tend to avoid threads on gender issues in the gaming sphere because sometimes they read like people trying to argue through a time machine. I really admire those who have the fortitude to help educate people again and again, though.

 

[Seeds]

It's really sad how you're so afraid of being ignored. The second you enter a thread that's not about you or your gender, you need to change the topic to make it about you.

It's like you're so insecure in your privilege and dominance as a (presumably) white male that second this article is written, remotely threatening it, you need to change its trajectory to ensure the world once again revolves around your gender.

Sure it's under the guise of "harassment in general", but if you stopped being so egocentric for a moment and learned more about the problem, you'd quickly learn that "harassment in general" factually implies "mostly women", unfortunately.


The article is about women, and the treatment of women in gaming. Can you just shut up for a second and listen? Let the article speak for itself instead of trying to make sure you're included?

Don't you realize that doing this is directly contributing to the problem? That women who are harassed don't feel safe to bring it up because men like you will just try to dominate the discussion again?

And some wonder why men wouldn't want to speak up.

 

[APF]

I don't know if this is still relevant, but both testosterone and estrogen are positively correlated to sex drive in human beings.

And as a related aside, I find it difficult to square a man who simultaneously waves aside male aggressive behavior due to high testosterone levels, yet also whines about perceived female aggressive behavior during periods of high estrogen levels. That said, the relationship between testosterone, estrogen, and aggression is actually pretty interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aggression#Effects_on_the_nervous_system

 

[The Librarian]

But whats the harm in saying "everyone stop harassing people?" and then focusing change around that paradigm. It also helps prevent that "women are delicate flowers and require protection" sexist trope, because its not the men whiteknighting women in the workplace, its everyone getting everyone's back in the workplace.

I don't think you read my post. The harm, as I already laid out, in lazily saying "harassment affects everyone" is that women are harassed more than men, and the reasons WHY women are harassed are different from that of men. You can't solve those problems by simply pushing "everyone stop being sexist." This is a thread about women. You're essentially doing another form of "Why are we talking about this?" but twisting it so you want to turn the thread's focus away from women.

If you want to discuss issues of harassment in the videogame industry, then make a thread. Go ahead. Nobody's stopping you! But this thread is about women.

Anyway, I'm going to take a break from this thread. I've responded a lot in it already.

 

[Carcetti]

And some wonder why men wouldn't want to speak up.

Maybe 'some' shouldn't wonder because men could try to go for another approach than 'let's not discuss this'.

 

[Fehyd]

It's really sad how you're so afraid of being ignored. The second you enter a thread that's not about you or your gender, you need to change the topic to make it about you.

It's like you're so insecure in your privilege and dominance as a (presumably) white male that second this article is written, remotely threatening it, you need to change its trajectory to ensure the world once again revolves around your gender.

Sure it's under the guise of "harassment in general", but if you stopped being so egocentric for a moment and learned more about the problem, you'd quickly learn that "harassment in general" factually implies "mostly women", unfortunately.


The article is about women, and the treatment of women in gaming. Can you just shut up for a second and listen? Let the article speak for itself instead of trying to make sure you're included?

Don't you realize that doing this is directly contributing to the problem? That women who are harassed don't feel safe to bring it up because men like you will just try to dominate the discussion again?

I will say, I don't like being attacked, or having words put in my mouth. But I digress.

Just wanted to add to Dax's point as well that you have elements of this http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Concern_troll where you are more concerned about the delivery or wording used as opposed to the actual issue at hand.

Because there's a widespread variety of harassment that's aimed at women because they're women? Specific problems can require specific solutions and specific discussions.

Nothing, and you're welcome to do that. What you aren't welcome to do is shit up a thread that's not about all genders, because you felt you've been left out.

This thread exists because a particular person wrote a particular article that one of our members thought was reasonable to discuss. Many people have, in fact, reasonably discussed it.

If you want to approach harassment in a different way, you're welcome to write your own article, make your own group, and even start your own forum. Here, though, we discuss particular topics based on the threads created.

Alright then, I will bow out of the discussion.

 

[foxuzamaki]

It does happen
Just have to take a look at the twitter accounts of the call of duty community managers

But it's still pretty obvious that women receive more harassment.

the fuck

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

That article is just chilling to read, especially the first paragraph. The part about the anonymous fan fiction was terrible, too.

I had no idea it was this bad. Of course I knew about all the public garbage that gets thrown at women in the industry, but it never occurred to me that the private, deeply psychological shit was happening as well. I can't even imagine what that's like. I don't want to imagine.

This has definitely opened my eyes. I was always sympathetic to these issues on a basic level but I never looked beyond the obvious. It shakes me to my core, and I'm not a guy who commonly has that reaction.

 

[mentallyinept]

It's really sad how you're so afraid of being ignored. The second you enter a thread that's not about you or your gender, you need to change the topic to make it about you.

It's like you're so insecure in your privilege and dominance as a (presumably) white male that second this article is written, remotely threatening it, you need to change its trajectory to ensure the world once again revolves around your gender.

Sure it's under the guise of "harassment in general", but if you stopped being so egocentric for a moment and learned more about the problem, you'd quickly learn that "harassment in general" factually implies "mostly women", unfortunately.


The article is about women, and the treatment of women in gaming. Can you just shut up for a second and listen? Let the article speak for itself instead of trying to make sure you're included?

Don't you realize that doing this is directly contributing to the problem? That women who are harassed don't feel safe to bring it up because men like you will just try to dominate the discussion again?

Wow... this is a lot of personal attacks on someone you barely know, who, while possibly ignorant of certain aspects of the issue, has been nothing but polite from what I can tell.

 

[Suzushiiro]

The problem doesn't only affect women though. Its like trying to fix a broken vase with half the pieces.

The fact that this thread is only about the harassment that women receive, and not harassment in the games industry in general is part of the problem, because its not a gendered problem.

If we're solving "harassment" in general, we're going to solve something that affects everyone. If we're solving "women's only harassment" it can alienate men from the cause.

All I'm saying, is unilaterally there'd be a lot less pushback regaqrding the industry if it was fixated on all genders.

I would agree that a major reason why the shit women get in gaming culture is so bad is that many gaming subcultures are built around everyone being assholes to each other, regardless of race, gender, or anything else. Calling a random woman on the internet a bitch seems less bad when you're calling the men you play video games with/against bitches all the time.

I don't necessarily think those subcultures have to change, people just need to learn to regulate themselves outside of them.

 

[dLMN8R]

Alright then, I will bow out of the discussion.

http://leighalexander.net/but-what-can-be-done-dos-and-donts-to-combat-online-sexism/

DON’T: Tone-police. Does she sound enraged, impatient, and bitter? Is she not being especially nice to all the people who have Tweeted at her to explain sexism, ask her how to solve sexism, or otherwise undermine the things she is saying? Too bad. You wouldn’t be nice either if you lived in a system which consistently conspired to remove your authority and devalue your work. No matter what happens, you are not the victim in the situation — do not re-center conversations on yourself and your needs and emotions by pestering angry women to talk more nicely to you.

Did she hurt your feelings? You’ll live. Ditch the passive aggressive “fair enough” and “I was merely trying to” and “as you wish” and all of this, leave her alone, and consider your obligation to be part of the solution to a system that has harmed her and made her angry. If you think women, particularly women who are public figures, should feel an equally-important sense of obligation to make you feel good about yourself while they are under stress, congratulations: You are part of the problem.

 

[Seeds]

Maybe 'some' shouldn't wonder because men could try to go for another approach than 'let's not discuss this'.

The men who don't want to discuss this are obviosuly not the ones who are also having problems in the industry.

 

[SousedLouse]

http://leighalexander.net/but-what-can-be-done-dos-and-donts-to-combat-online-sexism/

So Fehyd should stay and dig an even deeper hole, then, gotcha

 

[Krejlooc]

The 'gaming community' itself is pretty bad. Just look at the abuse people give/receive over FIFA and Call of Duty.

Heck, EA Sports received a shit load of twitter abuse from FIFA fans when they announced FIFA 15.

I can't find the link though.

Basically; angry teens.

It's not just angry teens, that's the point. It's colleagues, adults, industry professionals doing this crap in person, at the job, to other adults.

 

[jackal27]

And some wonder why men wouldn't want to speak up.

Maybe we, as men, need to do a little less speaking up and a little more listening.

That being said, let's all be respectful here, even if we disagree, which is inevitable.

 

[Riposte]

"Women are the niggers of gender," the email said. "If you killed yourself, I wouldn’t even fuck the corpse."

This guy totally posts on 4chan.

 

[MiniBossBattle]

I had to re-read the article. It feels like its the anonymity of the internet that allow sexism/harassment to be cranked up to a deafening and terrible mess. The audience that many games cater to are also ones that can be vocal and terrible.

Fun fact; posts on GAF on a piece of art my co-worker did made her cry.

 

[dLMN8R]

Wow... this is a lot of personal attacks on someone you barely know, who, while possibly ignorant of certain aspects of the issue, has been nothing but polite from what I can tell.

I was going to respond to this, but then:

Maybe we, as men, need to do a little less speaking up and a little more listening.

explains it well enough. It's not "personal attacks", it's direct observations of the entire core problem that the Polygon article is describing in the first place.

Yes: Women are the victims of harassment far more than men, factually, objectively.
No: It does not help the discussion to say "but men get it too"

Because this thread isn't about men getting harassed. This thread shouldn't be about men getting harassed. It's about men needing to shut the fuck up for once and just listen to what many women have to go through that, statistically, those men probably haven't had to go through.

 

[Nicktals]

Man, those people must have such an emotional disconnect from what they're typing...or are just the worst fucking people. Maybe a combination, but that's ridiculous.

And yeah, I don't see the point in separating it either, if the EFFECTS are the same. If harassment tends to effect genders differently then it makes sense to separate when discussing.

The CAUSE of WHY someone was harassed shouldn't matter, because it's always a combination of these things: lack of control, ignorance, hate (and these things seem to be enhanced exponentially on the internet!) The best course of action is to speak up. If you see anyone being harassed...speak up...if you have a friend who speaks in a deragatory manner towards a sex, talk to them about why it isn't cool....but man, that stuff seems unfathomable!

 

[Phades]

Maybe we, as men, need to do a little less speaking up and a little more listening.

In a environment where responding is the only way to show participation, placing such a muzzle for any arbitrary reason just gives incentive to skip topics entirely and thus invalidates the "listening" aspect.

 

[jtenma]

I'm kind of disgusted that he used a derogatory term for African Americans as a blanket insult for Brianna Wu.

I'm actually surprised how much this has blown up and no one is talking about the racial slur used.

I feel kind of offended by the people here now... just a tiny bit though.

I find this result more so... interesting. Yes, a very interesting result.

 

[Spinluck]

Regardless of the opinion of the moderation staff, I'm pretty dead set against using the word since it is literally equating someone with being bad as being female genitalia. Same with calling someone a "pussy" or whatever. If you want to use it, whatever. I am just saying that in this particular context I think it's wildly inappropriate.

I will use "dick" next time.

 

[Sai-kun]

I'm kind of disgusted that he used a derogatory term for African Americans as a blanket insult for Brianna Wu.

I'm actually surprised how much this has blown up and no one is talking about the racial slur used.

I feel kind of offended by the people here now... just a tiny bit though.

I find this result more so... interesting. Yes, a very interesting result.

meaning? there are a few posts of people talking about the slur used against her. personally i don't have much to say about it except that it's fucked up that they'd use the word at all.

 

[Neiteio]

This guy totally posts on 4chan.

What's weird about the "wouldn't even fuck the corpse" part is it suggests the anonymous jerk usually likes violating the dead

It was such a carefully-crafted hate-combo until he unwittingly slammed himself

 

[jackal27]

In a environment where responding is the only way to show participation, placing such a muzzle for any arbitrary reason just gives incentive to skip topics entirely and thus invalidates the "listening" aspect.

You're probably onto something, but I meant it in more of the sense of feeling a need to defend or include ourselves.

 

[Log4Girlz]

Women can definitely get "special" hate from insecure men in particular everywhere in life. Disgusting. You would think being in a cool industry dedicated to leisure time that requires such intelligent people to exist that it would be different.

 

[Eppy Thatcher]

Dat opening quote... eeeeshh...

nevermind all the societal talk and such - i wanna know - how does one manage to conjure up and say such aggressively ridiculously fucking threatening bullshit and NOT GET FIRED

I can't imagine an environment in my field of work (IT -mostly male group) that I have ever seen where that wouldn't get you instantly and completely fucking fired.

Unbelievable.

 

[enoki]

That article is just chilling to read, especially the first paragraph. The part about the anonymous fan fiction was terrible, too.

I had no idea it was this bad. Of course I knew about all the public garbage that gets thrown at women in the industry, but it never occurred to me that the private, deeply psychological shit was happening as well. I can't even imagine what that's like. I don't want to imagine.

This has definitely opened my eyes. I was always sympathetic to these issues on a basic level but I never looked beyond the obvious. It shakes me to my core, and I'm not a guy who commonly has that reaction.

I haven't used Xbox Live in years, but if it's still as toxic in FPS lobbies as it was in 2006-2008, all you would need to do is have a female friend hop on mic for you.

If I dared get on mic, I could receive anywhere from 10-20 private messages a day asking for (or demanding) nude photos, or writing out descriptions of exactly how I could best be ravaged. It does affect you psychologically in a way that you don't expect, over time.

Posters here will say that "men are harrassed too!"... but never once have I received a message asking for nude photos when I was not on mic or did not have my gender listed in my profile. My boyfriend can play in lobbies for weeks and not receive a single message that isn't relevant to the game he's playing.

No matter how thick your skin is, it's hard to overcome the thought that maybe all you're good for is someone else's pleasure. It becomes a little harder to pick up your mic in a game, even when you know that those players are outliers and not worth feeling sick over.

 

[Amir0x]

It makes me sick how this industry can treat women and people of color. We should try to be more inclusive, more diverse. The range of potential game ideas is great, and I cannot imagine the types of experiences we have lost out on by not having minorities and more women contribute in a larger manner to developing ideas for this industry. Every human has a unique identity and perspective on the world, and that unique perspective can allow them to peer behind the veil in an entirely different way that someone born in a different place with a different skin color, gender or sexual orientation might allow.

This shit has got to stop already.

There was another thread on neoGAF, about a guy who turned his bedroom into an 80s arcade and had his fiancee leave for it. Now, you can read through the topic. There's so many misogynistic/sexist posts in the thread I was legitimately alarmed. Something like 90% of the thread not only didn't read the topic where it says she was clearly supportive and even purchased stuff for the arcade room before he began to ignore her entirely (for six months straight!!) because it became an obsession. And they began to classify her as, paraphrasing here, a shrill harpy who was somehow not understanding enough of his hobby. Many, if not most, of the users in that topic were seriously trying to argue she was wrong and a shitty person for not accepting being ignored for six months straight in favor of an arcade room. Like any chick should just sit quiet in a relationship as it deteriorates and just allow the dude to do whatever, 'cause that's totally rational and healthy. It's seriously obscene, imo

 

[Beckx]

But whats the harm in saying "everyone stop harassing people?" and then focusing change around that paradigm. It also helps prevent that "women are delicate flowers and require protection" sexist trope, because its not the men whiteknighting women in the workplace, its everyone getting everyone's back in the workplace.

I mean, more men die in the workplace than women (by a large factor). I wouldn't think that being focused on lowering deaths in the workplace regardless of gender was detrimental to men and wouldn't be helpful.

If we're combating the issue, why does it matter what gender you are?

I can no longer see these "why not equalists" arguments as anything but bad faith, raising the boogeyman of misandry to avoid dealing with the issue.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Because this thread isn't about men getting harassed. This thread shouldn't be about men getting harassed. It's about men needing to shut the fuck up for once and just listen to what many women have to go through that, statistically, those men probably haven't had to go through.

It's insane to me that any man could read the examples in this article and think they are in any way comparable to what men, by and large, experience on a day-to-day basis. It's so far out of the ballpark it's a completely different sport. What an amazing display of arrogance, stupidity, or both, to even begin to equate the two.

 

[jtenma]

meaning? there are a few posts of people talking about the slur used against her. personally i don't have much to say about it except that it's fucked up that they'd use the word at all.

What do you mean "meaning"?

You "don't have much to say" about it?


Interesting...

 

[jackal27]

I haven't used Xbox Live in years, but if it's still as toxic in FPS lobbies as it was in 2006-2008, all you would need to do is have a female friend hop on mic for you.

If I dared get on mic, I could receive anywhere from 10-20 private messages a day asking for (or demanding) nude photos, or writing out descriptions of exactly how I could best be ravaged. It does affect you psychologically in a way that you don't expect, over time.

No matter how thick your skin is, it's hard to overcome the thought that maybe all you're good for is someone else's pleasure. It becomes a little harder to pick up your mic in a game, even when you know that those players are outliers and not worth feeling sick over.

Nobody should have to be afraid of this, especially in an environment that is built around, above all else, having fun. This just makes my gut turn.