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[The Librarian]

I think off topic threads about a celebrity and drooling over/criticizing them is not a big deal. She's in the public eye and is popular for both her looks and music. Now if people were doing this about game industry professionals or in the post your significant other threads it would be different.

Someone like taylor swift who is photographed and displayed for her looks is going to get and invite that kind of discussion. A woman coming into work to do a job is not.

It is a big deal if your concern is how comfortable women feel posting on NeoGAF.

 

[7DollarHagane]

One time, at the company I work for, we had an anonymous contest where you submitted funny pictures.

People either forgot it was anonymous (but the company could still see your entries once submitted), forgot that all of the other branches of my company (world wide) would see it, or just didn't give a fuck that women in the company would see it.

Some entries I saw were along the lines of:
A) asked (new) girl out at work, rejected
+
1) guess i'll have to wait for the next woman hire
2) your loss/what a bitch
3) i hate myself/why don't women like nice guys like me

It was fucking AWKWARD. I'm not joking either.

That's not to say that only nice guys who have social issues are the only men who act like this, but I'm sure there are a LOT in the game industry.

 

[Zack117]

Jeez, this topic again. I'm tired of this. Why can't people just play their games, respect each other and have a good time together, whether it be a female or male, black or white, yellow or pink. I guess we can't help it, for we are doomed by the fate of humanity.

There will always be people who don't understand/accept the principle of equality to which most of our cultures have moved to.

 

[7DollarHagane]

It is a big deal if your concern is how comfortable women feel posting on NeoGAF.

Well obviously the above bolded by a mod was out of line but drooling over a celebrity? Why would that make a woman feel uncomfortable? Maybe they agree or disagree that Taylor swift is pretty. Theres threads about male celebrities too.

 

[Steve Youngblood]

Holy crap that was fast O_O.

Wasn't even me! I clicked that thread to find this miscreant only to find that it was already dealt with.

 

[The Librarian]

Well obviously the above bolded by a mod was out of line but drooling over a celebrity? Why would that make a woman feel uncomfortable? Maybe they agree or disagree that Taylor swift is pretty. Theres threads about male celebrities too.

You don't see how a comment like this would make me feel uncomfortable?

 

[Neiteio]

Wasn't even me! I clicked that thread to find this miscreant only to find that it was already dealt with.

lol, "this miscreant." Your avatar makes me picture a detective monkey swinging through the trees, one hand on the vines and the other holding a magnifying glass. "He's down in the brush somewhere!"

 

[Amir0x]

You don't see how a comment like this would make me feel uncomfortable?

well I know Steve Youngblood missed the first one, but if I were that guy I'd start taking shelter now lol

 

[The Librarian]

Jeez, this topic again. I'm tired of this. Why can't people just play their games, respect each other and have a good time together, whether it be a female or male, black or white, yellow or pink. I guess we can't help it, for we are doomed by the fate of humanity.

There will always be people who don't understand/accept the principle of equality to which most of our cultures have moved to.

If you're tired of the topic, don't post in the thread.

 

[Jobbs]

You don't see how a comment like this would make me feel uncomfortable?

I think the whole thread is icky (for lack of a better word) in general. I understand girls may also participate in the discussion, but there's something about a thread of mostly guys comparing notes on how many hot girls are around and who's hotter than who and dissecting someone's appearance (even if they are famous) that's kinda.. gross, and beyond that, it invites posts like that one.

 

[Amir0x]

If you're tired of the topic, don't post in the thread.

To be fair, in the context of his full post, i think he's saying 'it's horrible to have to keep seeing threads pop up like this, why can't we all treat each other with respect?' rather than saying I don't think this thread should exist for discussion, he's saying he wishes threads like this didn't HAVE to exist for discussion.

At least that's my interpretation.

 

[7DollarHagane]

You don't see how a comment like this would make me feel uncomfortable?

I'll leave it to the mods to decide what is allowed in threads like that its clearly a joke.

A poorly thought out and gross joke, but the kind of thing a lot of guys say when their out drinking or whatever. Just not at women, if they have any sense.

Edit:fast acting ban! I was surprised that comment had lasted.

 

[weemadarthur]

Huh, I apologize. My boss claims she gets it all the time from "creepy old men"... (by that she means 60+)... who come up and say "smile."

She says there's a thing that started in the last year (for some reason) where they will also come up and say "you're the prettiest girl i've ever seen!" just randomly.

I guess you miss this when you spend 90% of your time on a PC or hiking in the mountains... hrm

Hey, thank you for being adult enough to check out something you had no prior knowledge of, and to come back afterward even when your hypothesis turned out to be mistaken.

 

[ReignofSparrows]

Neeervermind.

 

[Jinko]

The vast majority of it will stop if we make it socially unacceptable for them to do so. Which is why talking about and encouraging women to come forward is the right thing to do.

It already is socially unacceptable, but just because someone won't say these things in person doesn't mean they won't think them and the internet is basically a canvas for ones thoughts.

As long as there is anonymity it won't stop and could potentially get worse as the younger generations will see it more often.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I think the whole thread is icky (for lack of a better word) in general. I understand girls may also participate in the discussion, but there's something about a thread of mostly guys comparing notes on how many hot girls are around and who's hotter than who and dissecting someone's appearance (even if they are famous) that's kinda.. gross, and beyond that, it invites posts like that one.

Sure, but so is a lot of stuff in off topic. Like the guy who talked about jerking off with his sister sleeping in the room. Or threads about pimples or something.

 

[Jobbs]

I'll leave it to the mods to decide what is allowed in threads like that its clearly a joke.

A poorly thought out and gross joke, but the kind of thing a lot of guys say when their out drinking or whatever all the time, but they'd never say that to a woman.

But thye just did say it to a woman. As a red said earlier in this thread, you're talking to many people of all walks of life when you post on this forum. It's not your locker room.

Sure, but so is a lot of stuff in off topic. Like the guy who talked about jerking off with his sister sleeping in the room. Or threads about pimples or something.

Does that mean it's okay? The discussion in this thread, I feel, has naturally led us to examine some of what is going on.

 

[Neiteio]

To be fair, in the context of his full post, i think he's saying 'it's horrible to have to keep seeing threads pop up like this, why can't we all treat each other with respect?' rather than saying I don't think this thread should exist for discussion, he's saying he wishes threads like this didn't HAVE to exist for discussion.

At least that's my interpretation.

I agree. You beat me to pointing this out.

 

[7DollarHagane]

But thye just did say it to a woman. As a red said earlier in this thread, you're talking to many people of all walks of life when you post on this forum. It's not your locker room.



Does that mean it's okay? The discussion in this thread, I feel, has naturally led us to examine some of what is going on.

I do sort of like the seedier and weird elements of off topic. I do think that people talking about their porn or masturbation habits should not be allowed.

 

[The Librarian]

I'll leave it to the mods to decide what is allowed in threads like that its clearly a joke.

A poorly thought out and gross joke, but the kind of thing a lot of guys say when their out drinking or whatever. Just not at women, if they have any sense.

Edit:fast acting ban! I was surprised that comment had lasted.

This isn't a hard concept to grasp:

It's not super difficult. On GAF, discuss things as if you were in a real-life conversation with acquaintances/ people you don't know particularly well, which includes women. (Because, well, you are.)

Would you, in a real-life conversation including women you don't know particularly well, look at a passing woman and say "OMG would totally bang! Amirite? Fist bumps all around!" Probably not, right? Well then also don't do it on GAF. Pretty simple.

Making comments like that makes me feel unwelcome because it makes it feel like certain threads are a "boys' club." You wouldn't make that comment in real life when women are hanging around.

It already is socially unacceptable, but just because someone won't say these things in person doesn't mean they won't think them and the internet is basically a canvas for ones thoughts.

As long as there is anonymity it won't stop and could potentially get worse as the younger generations will see it more often.

I was talking about harassment as a whole. Obviously, if people keep making these comments on and off the internet, and think they can get away with it, then obviously it's not socially unacceptable to the best degree.

 

[Neiteio]

I'm ashamed to say that, as a woman, I actually don't care about that stuff... because I've been completely desensitized to it.

When I saw that thread, it seriously didn't alarm me. I just wrote it off as "gamers being gamers." I actually had to stop and think, oh wow, I'm so used to thinking of the gaming culture as being a bunch of men objectifying women and assigning value to them based purely on how much the woman makes their penis happy.



Okay, for us veterans of the internet, we write this off as everyday interaction.

But how do you think your young, impressionable, 13 year old daughter will feel when she comes into a forum about videogames, and sees threads like that?

You have a thread of people saying things like, "Oh yeah I'd totally fuck her." Then you have a bunch of people saying things like "she's not even attractive."

Let's say she's at the stage where she's worried about her body. She looks at a thread like that, where a lot of the comments are like "oh she's not good enough [for me]," and then might think "well shit, if that celebrity isn't pretty, then I must downright be disgusting."

This is a lot of whatifs, and purely hypothetical, but it's not fiction.

All of this. And those comments stay there on the Internet, like landmines ready to blow up the self-esteem of whatever young impressionable self-doubting kid comes across them. It might be now, it might be later, but those words can and will hurt someone, and continue to hurt them.

 

[maquiladora]

I honestly don't understand the type of people that post these kinds of unbelievably hateful shit to women in this industry, just because they are women.

I mean....I just don't understand it. At all.

 

[GamerJM]

I don't feel like reading this entire topic, but man, some of the things women have gone through in that article are horrible.

You don't see how a comment like this would make me feel uncomfortable?

What did he say?

 

[Jintor]

lol, "this miscreant." Your avatar makes me picture a detective monkey swinging through the trees, one hand on the vines and the other holding a magnifying glass. "He's down in the brush somewhere!"

Well...

 

[The Technomancer]

lol, you could take it further and have the equivalent of "why aren't you smiling," like so:

"Why aren't you clenching, madam! It doesn't flatter a lady to relax her buttocks so!"

...man, Butt World would be weird

Weirder than you could imagine

 

[Jobbs]

What did he say?

Something about jizz or ejaculating or something. You probably don't even want to know. XD

 

[MrBadger]

I know this comment chain is old as fuck, but I happened to end up on it recently. Not sure how relevant this is but I kind of think it shows the difference between men and women on the internet.

Guy on Reddit's gaming sub posts picture of cosplay, people think he's the girl in the picture, guy's PM box explodes

I didn't even know Reddit had PM's...

 

[hydrophilic attack]

This article makes me sad.

Unfortunately, it's present on Gaf as well. In pretty much every thread concerning Julie Larson-Green or Jade Raymond, a large number of posters will make remarks about their looks.

 

[Jobbs]

pretty much every thread concerning Julie Larson-Green or Jade Raymond, a large number of posters will make remarks about their looks.

I don't think this should be tolerated anymore. I honestly think we're evolving here. I hope I'm right.

 

[Neiteio]

Weirder than you could imagine

 

[ASIS]

I never got threats like these, nor have I received critiscm on the magnitude these devs get, so I cannot even understand these circumstances. But the little harassment I got online had zero effect on me. However, I think the impact of these threats are not the content but the idea that someone could think so low of another that they even get creative with the insults.

For the record, I am a guy and I still haven't read the article, but I will when I get the chance.

 

[besada]

I don't think this should be tolerated anymore. I honestly think we're evolving here. I hope I'm right.

We're either going to evolve, or we're going to be a smaller community.

 

[soultron]

I don't think this should be tolerated anymore. I honestly think we're evolving here. I hope I'm right.

I hope you're right too.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I wonder how people feel about this post.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=122228617

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw that gif used as a reply. But I guess its not too far removed from the banned post.

But then people kind of have to have a sense of humor too. Its hard to say and probably different for everyone.

 

[Jobbs]

I wonder how people feel about this post.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=122228617

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw that gif used as a reply. But I guess its not too far removed from the banned post.

But then people kind of have to have a sense of humor too. Its hard to say and probably different for everyone.

I may have laughed in the past when I was incorrectly viewing neogaf as a boy's club. I've become very aware as a result of this thread that it's just not.

and threads devoted to dissecting a woman's appearance are going to invite this sort of stuff. which is why I'm calling into question the value of those threads existing at all.

 

[The Librarian]

I wonder how people feel about this post.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=122228617

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw that gif used as a reply. But I guess its not too far removed from the banned post.

But then people kind of have to have a sense of humor too. Its hard to say and probably different for everyone.

It's uncalled for. I don't need to know your dick is getting hard from seeing pictures of her.

 

[7DollarHagane]

I may have laughed in the past when I was incorrectly viewing neogaf as a boy's club. I've become very aware as a result of this thread that it's just not.

and threads devoted to dissecting a woman's appearance are going to invite this sort of stuff. which is why I'm calling into question the value of those threads existing at all.

I think the threads are fine as long as the discussion is kept in check and its not personal or about someone the op or posters actually know.

Unless were going to pretend that straight men aren't attracted to certain beautiful celebrities allowing that type of discussion makes sense. If people don't want to read it its pretty clearly labeled and its not like these threads are flooding the off topic section.

 

[Cybit]

I wonder how people feel about this post.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=122228617

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw that gif used as a reply. But I guess its not too far removed from the banned post.

But then people kind of have to have a sense of humor too. Its hard to say and probably different for everyone.

I would like to think there is some degree of difference between that specific post and what this article and this thread is about. I want women to feel equally comfortable posting pictures of Stephen Amell and the Salmon Ladder, for instance. You can't go from one extreme to the other, that's precisely what leads to the pendulum going insanely back and forth.

EDIT: Also, I suspect we would be laying the banhammer on a fair amount of female posters if we dug through the Supernatural and Arrow OT threads; IIRC, there is definitely some mass drooling / objectification going on. There's a very big difference between threatening someone and demeaning someone because of their physical appearance, and going full blown puritanical how dare you find yourself thinking about someone's looks. The latter usually becomes impossible to enforce and not even a healthy attitude either.

 

[JJDinomite]

I wonder how people feel about this post.

http://m.neogaf.com/showpost.php?p=122228617

I laughed and laughed the first time I saw that gif used as a reply. But I guess its not too far removed from the banned post.

But then people kind of have to have a sense of humor too. Its hard to say and probably different for everyone.

It's a classic gif, I don't get the hate. GAF has been hard on the ban hammer lately.

 

[sneaky77]

It's uncalled for. I don't need to know your dick is getting hard from seeing pictures of her.

I'm not going to defend that kinda post, I understand how women view them. But surely you get that is an over exaggeration and is very unlikely the guy is having any kind of sexual reaction to that picture in reality right?

 

[licktheenvelope]

Hey, thank you for being adult enough to check out something you had no prior knowledge of, and to come back afterward even when your hypothesis turned out to be mistaken.

Well, to be fair, I didn't see it as a 'hypothesis' more of an insinuation that maybe this doesn't happen out west (someone said their experiences were out east).

Turns out I don't get the privelege of being around when old men are being creepy as hell with... well middle age women really.

Still I just am not around creeps that much I guess. *shrug* Still trying to figure out how I don't see this more.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm not going to defend that kinda post, I understand how women view them. But surely you get that is an over exaggeration and is very unlikely the guy is having any kind of sexual reaction to that picture in reality right?

Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?

 

[Arkam]

That's true but let's discuss it in this bubble.

You will never get anywhere like that. Its trying to stop crime through gun control... kinda impossible since you are skipping over the whole damn picture.

The issue is how females are treated (and treat others) in modern america. If you think the video game industry will solve this issue before anyone else you are a bit misguided. So if you are going to discuss female treatment in the work place do it... but don't hyper focus on the video game industry thinking it is the terrible exception.

Edit: Can we also start talking about solution and not just pointing out problems.

 

[Jobbs]

I think the threads are fine as long as the discussion is kept in check and its not personal or about someone the op or posters actually know.

Unless were going to pretend that straight men aren't attracted to certain beautiful celebrities allowing that type of discussion makes sense. If people don't want to read it its pretty clearly labeled and its not like these threads are flooding the off topic section.

I don't think anyone should pretend straight men aren't attracted to beautiful women. What's unsavory about the thread is all of the comparing going on. She's hot. No she isn't. Okay, she's kind of hot but XYZ is wrong with her. I know hotter girls in real life. Girls in my area are hot. This. That. And on and on.

This is hostile and it's damaging to girls (especially young girls) self esteem to see this sort of discussion. A poster talked about this on the previous page and I really agree. Girls face constant pressure to look a certain way. I'm aware that guys will discuss amongst themselves what girls they like, and to some extent I view that as pretty harmless, but, again, this isn't a locker room. This is a massive venue with many people reading from all walks of life.

Beyond that, the thread produces a platform for vile posts to show up. So it also becomes a question of a value proposition -- What good clean fun comes from the thread (very little, in my view), and what grossness comes from it (a lot already, demonstrably).

 

[sneaky77]

Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?

To be honest I have heard women in my friends group say things of the sort as well about hot guys, but while I get your point, I was just saying that its not necessarily that is an actual sexual response but a way guys tend to joke around.. and yes I agree its better if thats something only done in private with your friends if at all.

 

[BobbyRobby]

I think the threads are fine as long as the discussion is kept in check and its not personal or about someone the op or posters actually know.

Unless were going to pretend that straight men aren't attracted to certain beautiful celebrities allowing that type of discussion makes sense. If people don't want to read it its pretty clearly labeled and its not like these threads are flooding the off topic section.

I've come to accept that NeoGaf is not a place where I come to for humor.

It's a professional environment where people talk about games. Like my job, a coworker may say something funny once a week, but it's not a funny place.

 

[The Librarian]

You will never get anywhere like that. Its trying to stop crime through gun control... kinda impossible since you are skipping over the whole damn picture.

The issue is how females are treated (and treat others) in modern america. If you think the video game industry will solve this issue before anyone else you are a bit misguided. So if you are going to discuss female treatment in the work place do it... but don't hyper focus on the video game industry thinking it is the terrible exception.

Edit: Can we also start talking about solution and not just pointing out problems.

The problem of how women are being treated in the videogame industry is exactly what this thread is about.

To be honest I have heard women in my friends group say things of the sort as well about hot guys, but while I get your point, I was just saying that its not necessarily that is an actual sexual response but a way guys tend to joke around.. and yes I agree its better if thats something only done in private with your friends if at all.

Just so you know, this reads as a variation of, "Some of my best friends are women!"

 

[D4Danger]

Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?

in the context of one of those dumb "...sure is looking good" threads it's a joke (those threads suck btw, I think we can all agree on that).

I don't think we need to go round pulling every dumb gif and comment out of context and overanalyze it though

 

[licktheenvelope]

Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?

See, I agree with you, but there's a duel side to this where if I say I don't want to see 'your' (by that I mean women in general) cleavage at a certainy place/location I'd be considered as being a cultivator of a 'culture of rape' by imagining a woman as a sexual object who is not wearing much clothing (god I am not articulate when tired...).

I'm not saying you personally would feel this way Dax, but that is a huge argument out there right now.

 

[The Librarian]

in the context of one of those dumb "...sure is looking good" threads it's a joke (those threads suck btw, I think we can all agree on that).

I don't think we need to go round pulling every dumb gif and comment out of context and overanalyze it though

Just because it's a joke, if it is, doesn't make it okay, or doesn't mean it contributes any less to the feeling of the thread being a boys' club and making it unwelcoming.