No skin thick enough: the daily harassment of women in the game industry

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Well, to be fair, I didn't see it as a 'hypothesis' more of an insinuation that maybe this doesn't happen out west (someone said their experiences were out east).

Turns out I don't get the privelege of being around when old men are being creepy as hell with... well middle age women really.

Still I just am not around creeps that much I guess. *shrug* Still trying to figure out how I don't see this more.

In my experience, it usually happens when I'm on my own or with other women. When it doesn't involve yelling out of vehicles or from across the street, strangers don't take note of it.

edit - As for the argument about appreciation threads for attractive people, it doesn't bother me. There's lots of shit I'm not interested in and I just don't go to those threads. It's when it leaks out everywhere and you can't escape it that it makes this place less welcoming.

It bothers me when any time a woman is a topic of conversation for whatever reason - be it politics, opinion, business, she's the topic of a news story - there is a tendency to evaluate her as a collection of boobs and orifices that one would/would not insert a dick into.

I also find it weird when there is some topic about a game/show/movie that one would think would be discussion, but it becomes someone's folder-dump of bikini pics for no particular reason.

Basically, the women who post around here already have thick skins and know how to ignore what bothers them. That's why I find it hard to take any evaluation of the female demographics of 'out' female posters/players in the gaming-related internet seriously. We are already a self-selecting group. I have female friends IRL who really love videogames and talking about them. They would also never consider playing online as a woman or posting on forums because it's not worth the trouble/headache. It's just for fun, and constantly trying to make the point that feminism happened and we exist is not fun.

Passion is about being willing to suffer. From what I can tell, a woman has to be pretty passionate about games to even bother with the gaming-related areas of the internet.
 
You will never get anywhere like that. Its trying to stop crime through gun control... kinda impossible since you are skipping over the whole damn picture.

The issue is how females are treated (and treat others) in modern america. If you think the video game industry will solve this issue before anyone else you are a bit misguided. So if you are going to discuss female treatment in the work place do it... but don't hyper focus on the video game industry thinking it is the terrible exception.

Edit: Can we also start talking about solution and not just pointing out problems.
The issue of this thread is how women are treated in the video game industry. You're welcome to make a more expansive thread if you desire.
 
I may be digressing from the current conversation a bit but I feel this is relevant to bring up nonetheless.

When I was about 16, I was standing on my porch and this grown man rode by in his car. He was staring really hard at me and I can't remember if he winked but he did something that made me uncomfortable. So I turned away, and rolled my eyes.

Do you know he actually stopped his car and backed up to "check" me because I got offended? He started fussing at me, saying how he was a grown man and could look at me any way he wanted to. Mind you, I was a teenager and he was GROWN. Age clearly has nothing to do with this. Young or old, there's men out three that feel entitled to women. And that he even felt it was alright to get after me about it is unbelievably disrespectful and wrong.
 
Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?
Guys very do much say that sort of thing in real life. "I'd totally do her" and its million variations are standard random straight guy talk.
 
See, I agree with you, but there's a duel side to this where if I say I don't want to see 'your' (by that I mean women in general) cleavage at a certainy place/location I'd be considered as being a cultivator of a 'culture of rape' by imagining a woman as a sexual object who is not wearing many clothes.

I'm not saying you personally would feel this way Dax, but that is a huge argument out there right now.

.......................
 
Then why make a post like that? I don't need – nor WANT – to know what you're thinking of sexually about certain women.

You wouldn't say stuff like that in real life. Why would you said it here?

With all due respect. Celebrities, both men and women, like and want to be talked about. Even sexually.
 
Guys very do much say that sort of thing in real life. "I'd totally do her" and its million variations are standard random straight guy talk.
Do they do this routinely in front of women? Because I've been a guy for forty-four years, and my experience is that men talk like this when women aren't around, because they're totally aware that women would find it offensive.
 
I don't think anyone should pretend straight men aren't attracted to beautiful women. What's unsavory about the thread is all of the comparing going on. She's hot. No she isn't. Okay, she's kind of hot but XYZ is wrong with her. I know hotter girls in real life. Girls in my area are hot. This. That. And on and on.

This is hostile and it's damaging to girls (especially young girls) self esteem to see this sort of discussion. A poster talked about this on the previous page and I really agree. Girls face constant pressure to look a certain way. I'm aware that guys will discuss amongst themselves what girls they like, and to some extent I view that as pretty harmless, but, again, this isn't a locker room. This is a massive venue with many people reading from all walks of life.

Beyond that, the thread produces a platform for vile posts to show up. So it also becomes a question of a value proposition -- What good clean fun comes from the thread (very little, in my view), and what grossness comes from it (a lot already, demonstrably).

I think you have to consider that discussion about a pop star does not equal discussion about women. And that's something that most girls and boys learn as well as they mature and grow up.
 
.......................

What I am referring to is a previous post where someone was not happy with the way women present themselves as sexual objects to attract men, such as in some twitch streams.

If I say something negative about how someone dresses, or say "hey I don't wan't to see that" ... I would be labelled as cultivating a culture of rape... instead of just feeling uncomfortable, which is similar to feeling uncomfortable around the word 'ejaculate' or 'erection' etc.
 
What I am referring to is a previous post where someone was not happy with the way women present themselves as sexual objects to attract men, such as in some twitch streams.

If I say something negative about how someone dresses, or say "hey I don't wan't to see that" ... I would be labelled as cultivating a culture of rape... instead of just feeling uncomfortable, which is similar to feeling uncomfortable around the word 'ejaculate' or 'erection' etc.
I'm not even going to try this again. You've posted so many ridiculous things in this thread that don't have any merit, I don't even know why I bother.
 
Holy jeezus.
http://www.polygon.com/2014/7/22/5926193/women-gaming-harassment

I hope you're ready to read this. Brianna Wu contributes three myth/reality stories and more. Here's what kicks off the story - brace yourself.



I can't even imagine trying to endure this.




I highly recommend reading the article and there's a LOT of reading to do between just the myth/reality parts. There's also conclusions to each, and there's a lot to talk about.

Something that stood out to me in Case Study 1 was this:

"A male friend of mine that develops AAA games told me, "When a woman criticizes me, it goes to a different part of my brain than when a man on my team does. I get defensive really quickly. I’m trying to get better about it." I don’t think his is a unique experience."

To the males: Are you trying to get better about it? Have you felt that way?

Jesus...

this is why I want INSTANT Ip address back-tracers to be a thing, preferably with some sort of software linking the harasser's social media/"normal" internet profile to this bile so everyone knows how big of a waste of tissue they are. Imagine Jay and Silent bob strike back
 
Do they do this routinely in front of women? Because I've been a guy for forty-four years, and my experience is that men talk like this when women aren't around, because they're totally aware that women would find it offensive.

Guys in high school and college will do it in front of women, which is probably relevant in some of these threads given GAF demographics.
 
I think you have to consider that discussion about a pop star does not equal discussion about women. And that's something that most girls and boys learn as well as they mature and grow up.

I think you need to stop and think about how girls (particularly young girls) internalize what they see and what society tells them.

Again, all of the stuff I'm saying here is premised on what Cyan and other mods have said -- That this is to be an inclusive community where no one is left out or made to feel uncomfortable. I like that idea, and I don't think threads like that one fit with it.

Read this, because I couldn't put it better.
 
I may be digressing from the current conversation a bit but I feel this is relevant to bring up nonetheless.

When I was about 16, I was standing on my porch and this grown man rode by in his car. He was staring really hard at me and I can't remember if he winked but he did something that made me uncomfortable. So I turned away, and rolled my eyes.

Do you know he actually stopped his car and backed up to "check" me because I got offended? He started fussing at me, saying how he was a grown man and could look at me any way he wanted to. Mind you, I was a teenager and he was GROWN. Age clearly has nothing to do with this. Young or old, there's men out three that feel entitled to women. And that he even felt it was alright to get after me about it is unbelievably disrespectful and wrong.

times like this, a white lie ala "my father is a cop" is in order.
 
I wonder how much does the region difference takes into account.

In the companies I been in, there are a lot more woman involved (still a minority), and they are treated with respect. I haven't heard any sexual harassment issues in my area.

Edit: Actually, I remember one time when a female friend of mine, a QA manager, went to Louisiana to assist a QA team. On the first day, she was immediately sexually harassed with college students using sexual remarks and trying to get her to go out with them (they soon found out she was their lead lol).

I am not disagreeing with that.
We cool then.
 
Do they do this routinely in front of women? Because I've been a guy for forty-four years, and my experience is that men talk like this when women aren't around, because they're totally aware that women would find it offensive.
I'm not the best guy to answer that one. :-P I know the inverse discussion w/ straight women/gay guys tends to make the guys uncomfortable.
 
I'm not going to defend that kinda post, I understand how women view them. But surely you get that is an over exaggeration and is very unlikely the guy is having any kind of sexual reaction to that picture in reality right?

We have veered very far from what this thread is about, and I don't want to harp on this too much as I feel we've already derailed this thread enough. Further, I'd like to note that I've had a slow trigger finger all night and have been late on all bannings that have occurred in that thread. I'm just saying that so that anyone questioning whether I've gone too far doesn't appeal to me thinking I've acted insanely and unilaterally. It wasn't me, but I agree with the decisions made.

Having said that, I don't think the end game is to cultivate a community that ignores that public figures can be very attractive. Obviously, sex appeal is integral to the appeal of many pop/movie/TV stars. It's not against any rules to comment on appearances when appropriate. But we'd also like to keep things just a bit classy. I don't mean that we should behave as 19th century London gentlemen. But we are also very tired of commentary here that thinks that any sense of tact and discretion is prudish nonsense.

Nobody is offended when you state that Taylor Swift is attractive. I'm sure if she read it she'd appreciate the sentiment. But whether literal or not, we're really not amused by the colorful commentary some offer. Further, let's be clear. Taylor Swift isn't having sex with anyone here coming forth to offer unabashed commentary or funny gifs about how aroused they are.
 
I don't think anyone should pretend straight men aren't attracted to beautiful women. What's unsavory about the thread is all of the comparing going on. She's hot. No she isn't. Okay, she's kind of hot but XYZ is wrong with her. I know hotter girls in real life. Girls in my area are hot. This. That. And on and on.

This is hostile and it's damaging to girls (especially young girls) self esteem to see this sort of discussion. A poster talked about this on the previous page and I really agree. Girls face constant pressure to look a certain way. I'm aware that guys will discuss amongst themselves what girls they like, and to some extent I view that as pretty harmless, but, again, this isn't a locker room. This is a massive venue with many people reading from all walks of life.

Beyond that, the thread produces a platform for vile posts to show up. So it also becomes a question of a value proposition -- What good clean fun comes from the thread (very little, in my view), and what grossness comes from it (a lot already, demonstrably).

You actually really just changed how i viewed posts like that then... I took that link as a decent enough "Haha, ok, dick joke" and smiled. But it seems to be one thing to gawk, but another then to be gawked at and like that sort of attention then want to keep supporting the stupid-high beauty standards (Taylor Swift being extremely fortunate looking even without the 'celebrity finish' of high-end stylists and fancy wardrobe).

Of course, I like a good looking guy as much as anyone likes anyone good looking. I'd be lying if I didn't say I didn't judge people's appearance, but it's usually more about bad hair or clothing choices than someone's 'mug' --- something that you're, more or less, stuck with.
 
I'm not even going to try this again. You've posted so many ridiculous things in this thread that don't have any merit, I don't even know why I bother.

...

Thanks for being helpful... (if I missed a reply to that comment about innapropriate dress I apologize).

This is very similar to the types of conversations I get online when you bring this up to people who go on and on about how men are horrible and there's a 'culture of rape'...

I say: "Part of this is likely hormonal" ... the response is "no it's not, your hormones don't matter"... I say "it felt like this"... i'm told "No it doesn't" (by women)... then it's shrugged off.

They say: "this makes me uncomfortable about men" ... I say: "me too... this makes me uncomfortable about women" they say "that's ridiculous"...

*sigh*

I would like equality lol.
 
I think you need to stop and think about how girls (particularly young girls) internalize what they see and what society tells them.

Again, all of the stuff I'm saying here is premised on what Cyan and other mods have said -- That this is to be an inclusive community where no one is left out or made to feel uncomfortable. I like that idea, and I don't think threads like that one fit with it.

Read this, because I couldn't put it better.


Well sure but does the op of the Taylor swift thread have a right to start a discussion about how Taylor swift is pretty if he wants to? Because that was the origin of the thread. That she is pretty.


She's also very talented and in none of the photos is she shaking her ass or showing her chest off. I'm not really sure where all the sexually charged comments came from because nothing about the thread invited that, nor does Taylor swift's pop star persona.
 
Jesus...

this is why I want INSTANT Ip address back-tracers to be a thing, preferably with some sort of software linking the harasser's social media/"normal" internet profile to this bile so everyone knows how big of a waste of tissue they are. Imagine Jay and Silent bob strike back

Should you really be posting stuff like this from that account? Like, we've gone over several times in this thread about how the solution you just proposed would be devastating to women online. You've proposed a method which would make stalking women much easier, and would endanger several marginalized groups. Anonymity online is both a blessing and a curse.

This is honestly embarrassing coming from a former CEO.
 
Exactly. It devolved from "pretty" to "look at everything that is wrong with her, she's gross, etc etc etc."

....wat?

I checked in again and people are calling her a horse face, and someone posted a picture of another celebrity to mock her appearance, and on and on...

I don't want to sound too preoccupied with this one thread, but it became an interesting question for me -- because there seemed to be such evolved attitudes (mostly) in this thread, and at the same time a lot of creepy stuff going on elsewhere in this same community, and I think maybe some things should be examined.
 
We have veered very far from what this thread is about, and I don't want to harp on this too much as I feel we've already derailed this thread enough. Further, I'd like to note that I've had a slow trigger finger all night and have been late on all bannings that have occurred in that thread. I'm just saying that so that anyone questioning whether I've gone too far doesn't appeal to me thinking I've acted insanely and unilaterally. It wasn't me, but I agree with the decisions made.

Having said that, I don't think the end game is to cultivate a community that ignores that public figures can be very attractive. Obviously, sex appeal is integral to the appeal of many pop/movie/TV stars. It's not against any rules to comment on appearances when appropriate. But we'd also like to keep things just a bit classy. I don't mean that we should behave as 19th century London gentlemen. But we are also very tired of commentary here that thinks that any sense of tact and discretion is prudish nonsense.

Nobody is offended when you state that Taylor Swift is attractive. I'm sure if she read it she'd appreciate the sentiment. But whether literal or not, we're really not amused by the colorful commentary some offer. Further, let's be clear. Taylor Swift isn't having sex with anyone here coming forth to offer unabashed commentary or funny gifs about how aroused they are.
I'd like to add that even though this thread has kind of gotten off-topic, I do appreciate the discussion taking place here, especially the comments made by the moderators.
 
I sort of think we're veering a bit off-topic...the idea of feeling welcome and its changing modern standards is a much more fascinating and deeper subject due to the technological advances of the last 60+ years (and one I would happily discuss in a separate thread / PMs); but I think we're aiming for "not feeling completely freaking harassed and hated" for women trying to get into the field.

I have a pretty thick skin even by male standards; but at a certain point it comes down to the "they don't want me here at all" feeling people start to get, and the level of hopelessness that brings to the table. Even if it wouldn't personally offend me, no one wants to work to go somewhere they do not feel wanted in the slightest.

There's also an empathy gap due to socialization between men and women; men are often socialized to be pushed to the absolute limit of taunting, teasing, etc, and are rewarded for not showing any effect (suck it up!). If you can take it all, other men tend to accept you into the fold as a fellow male. I don't believe women are particularly rewarded for similar actions. So you run into the issue that many men don't see what the problem is because they talk that kind of stuff (jokingly) even about other guys, but if you haven't grown up in it and been rewarded for taking it, it seems completely insane to many women.

I mean, we're all different in how we perceive the same thing; so while I may not have as much of a problem with grief giving, I know that some people in my life will not do as well if I treat them the same way I treat other people. We should try to be decent freaking human beings cuz we'd want the same treatment in their shoes.
 
It's disappointing that the writer felt it was necessary to hyperbolize and make a number of definitive statements that are inherently unprovable, in addition to taking such an unnecessarily divisive stance on gender issues. I feel that doing so distracts somewhat from the core issue and makes the article less persuasive to those who would be skeptical to the topic upon beginning the article, as well as directing the discussion around the article to a more combative tone.

First off, having a main point of the article be "Many men believe women have no worth in the games industry beyond appearance." is problematic in many ways. First off, the point doesn't do anything to inform or persuade about the issue at hand. Second, the statement inherently puts men on the defensive by presuming the odds are greater that a man thinks this way rather than not, as well as telling women to assume that men view them this way more likely than not. I firmly believe that statements like this that pit the genders against one another and try to create suspicion between the genders are counterproductive and actively harmful to gender equality.

Furthermore, it is impossible to prove or measure in an objective manner. And while the examples provided in the article are pretty deplorable and clearly indicate a problem that needs addressing, they demonstrate nothing about the frequency of such attitudes of the gaming audience at large, let alone half of humanity.

Along the same lines, saying "I’ve personally never heard of a man in the games industry getting rape threats for having an opinion." is a bone-headed and obnoxious thing to say, for plenty of reasons that should be pretty clear (and oh god I really don't want to expand on this any more), while not being necessary to illustrate the point that women get sexually-related threats more often than men do.

There are a few other statements like this in the article that weren't worth expanding on much due to having similar issues as what I listed above, but were along these lines of being controversial gender-related statements that didn't seem to serve any purpose in the article aside from being controversial.

Second, I think it's disingenuous to title the article as it is when the article doesn't really contain what is promised. From the title, I was expecting some idea of what the average woman in the games industry faces day-to-day at work, but instead we largely got a bunch of online harassment from larger public figures. I remember hearing a lot of disappointing stories and anecdotes when the #1reasonwhy thing was happening from what it was like day-to-day for some women in the games industry, but what is presented in this article is little like that. It's orders of magnitude worse. I think that if the average woman in the games industry experienced things like that from coworkers every day, either this industry would've seen huge reform some time ago or there would be no women who would be willing to work in the industry.

Again, if you approach it from the perspective of someone who is skeptical of the premise upon starting the article, they will be more likely to dismiss the content because it isn't as bad as what they may have expected from the headline. Also, for persuading these people, it would be helpful to better provide a proper frame of reference for the effects that online harassment can have, specifically on women in such a position. People inherently relate the things they read to their own experiences, and absent a proper frame of reference, online harassment can seem pretty minimal. I could easily see plenty of guys reading this, thinking along the lines of "Oh, they're just getting smacktalked by some random asshole," and thinking back to when that happened to them while playing DoTA because that's what they have to personally relate to it, and thinking "That's it? That's not so bad."

The core of the article is dealing with an extremely serious and pressing issue (anonymous online harassment) with a focus on what women might uniquely face, and this is certainly worthy of a detailed and honest discussion, but in addition to not being particularly well-written as a persuasive article for those who need persuading, it seems to me that the more pressing issue to the writer was to generate clicks with controversy. Considering the source, I'm sadly inclined to believe this is the case.

I may have laughed in the past when I was incorrectly viewing neogaf as a boy's club. I've become very aware as a result of this thread that it's just not.

and threads devoted to dissecting a woman's appearance are going to invite this sort of stuff. which is why I'm calling into question the value of those threads existing at all.

Yeah, I'm not really sure what to make of those kinds of threads either. I'm not really sure what kind of proper discussion could take place in a thread like that.

Whenever I click on one of those threads, my reaction is usually, "Yeah, huh, I guess so. Well, good to know." and the thread gets closed. As for the replies, well, after several years on GAF, you know what you're likely to see in a thread like that.
 
I sort of think we're veering a bit off-topic...the idea of feeling welcome and its changing modern standards is a much more fascinating and deeper subject due to the technological advances of the last 60+ years (and one I would happily discuss in a separate thread / PMs); but I think we're aiming for "not feeling completely freaking harassed and hated" for women trying to get into the field.

Well, NeoGAF (and other forums) relates to the thread title in that it is a gaming forum which IS part of the gaming industry in its own small way Women take to forums to interact with fans and other gamers, so it's pretty important to discuss how videogame forums treat women because if not taken care of, they can be just another avenue of harassment.
 
Hey, GirlGAF had a couple pages dedicated to hot guys.

That is different from that thread, which was okay until it became a thread about (see comment below).



Exactly. It devolved from "pretty" to "look at everything that is wrong with her, she's gross, etc etc etc."

....wat?

Ah yeah; gawking is fine, demeaning is not so much.
 
What I am referring to is a previous post where someone was not happy with the way women present themselves as sexual objects to attract men, such as in some twitch streams.

If I say something negative about how someone dresses, or say "hey I don't wan't to see that" ... I would be labelled as cultivating a culture of rape... instead of just feeling uncomfortable, which is similar to feeling uncomfortable around the word 'ejaculate' or 'erection' etc.

I don't think you ought to assume a response as you stated here. You may have seen such responses, but I doubt they were all on gaf. So, I think it sounds like you're bringing general internet culture here, even while gaf is trying to advance to the next level.

There may be room for discussion of how straight males can avoid thinking excessively sexual thoughts about a random woman, and whether an apparent sexual wardrobe can affect the male's viewpoint, etc. sounds like you'd enjoy watching some Dave Chappelle and posting about it in OT.

But it probably isn't going to be covered in this particular thread.
 
It's disappointing that the writer felt it was necessary to hyperbolize and make a number of definitive statements that are inherently unprovable,
Why? How do you know?
in addition to taking such an unnecessarily divisive stance on gender issues. I feel that doing so distracts somewhat from the core issue and makes the article less persuasive to those who would be skeptical to the topic upon beginning the article, as well as directing the discussion around the article to a more combative tone.
How is talking about harassment women receive distracting from the issue when their GENDER is a large reason for why they receive that harassment?
 
I think that if the average woman in the games industry experienced things like that from coworkers every day, either this industry would've seen huge reform some time ago or there would be no women who would be willing to work in the industry.

Or perhaps your assumptions are flawed
 
More people should report harassment. Make the community inclusive.

Online systems need to have expanded report functions so that people can report what they see. Send the last five minutes or audio/text/video to the platform/online holder.

Leave games that bigots/misogynists/homophobes are playing. Even if you aren't the target.

Support inclusive games/clans/communities.
Reach out to people you see bein harassed. Let them know "I saw the behaviour. I don't agree with it. Invite me if you wanna play sometime."

Create and participate in communities you want to be involved in. Make it clear what you don't care for. Don't be a bystander.
 
Was it Aisha Tyler who started the "this isn't Reddit, but ask me anything" thread? I remember she wasted little time establishing she wouldn't tolerate insults of any kind. That defensive stance, right out of the gate, makes me wonder what sort of flak she must get elsewhere online. I mean, we see in the OP article how hard it is for women online. But then you have Aisha, who is 1) a woman, 2) black, 3) a public figure, and 4) not afraid to speak her mind. I can only imagine the hate she must attract from the dark side of the Internet. I commend her for staying strong.
 
Like how weirdly cynical that a woman can write an article about how she gets rape threats and other abuse on a daily basis and that she asked a few other women about whether they did and the ultimate sum-up is "Well yes this is a clickbait article"

I mean

I just
 
Or perhaps your assumptions are flawed

Definitely flawed. There was a survey a few years back on sexual harassment in the workplace in Russia. 100% of the female professionals who took the survey said that they had been subjected to sexual harassment by their bosses. Women still work in Russia.

If someone loves a field enough, they will put up with less than ideal conditions to continue doing what they like for a living. That doesn't make it right or not worth changing those conditions to be more inclusive though.
 
this reminds of that quote from haya miyazaki who said that "otakus are killing anime". people thought that he refered to anime fans when in fact he was using the actual definition of otaku in japan that is freak. He said that lots of guys in the anime industry were freaks completely disconnected with reality.

My gamer experience, both in game and in forums has teached me that lots of guys are jerks when treating with womans, I had met tons of guys who are gamers who act super awkward in front of womens only to later act as alpha mens who "had fucked tons of bitches" and treat womens as people who has no business in gaming. with that in mind I will not be surprised that the industry is filled with freaks.

That being said, I had met lots of girls who use this at their advantage, and exploit the fact of being women to ask those lonely men for favors.
 
Like how weirdly cynical that a woman can write an article about how she gets rape threats and other abuse on a daily basis and that she asked a few other women about whether they did and the ultimate sum-up is "Well yes this is a clickbait article"

I mean

I just

I don't even know what some people are reading, anymore. I feel like my link is taking me to a different article.
 
Well, NeoGAF (and other forums) relates to the thread title in that it is a gaming forum which IS part of the gaming industry in its own small way Women take to forums to interact with fans and other gamers, so it's pretty important to discuss how videogame forums treat women because if not taken care of, they can be just another avenue of harassment.

I think Steve Youngblood covers what I meant by going off-topic w/r/t the Taylor Swift thread.

I'm not sure NeoGAF counts as part of the gaming industry (hell, E3 doesn't believe so, ZING, too soon?). It counts as part of gaming culture, but not gaming industry. What privately ran forums talk about should not be influencing the hiring decisions and business opportunities of the whole industry. While culture can influence industry and vice versa; they are two different things, and you can have a good industry and a toxic culture, or vice versa. W/R/T to the article; to me I am concerned for those who are trying to enter the industry / stay in the industry to earn a living, and aiming for solutions for that problem and that problem alone currently.

Trying to change the whole culture takes a lot longer, and screws everyone trying to get jobs now. We need to work on it. but I think it needs to be done incrementally because you're looking at a mind share / unconscious changing of standards. Good example for me is booth babes; PAX (AFAIK) took the initiative to remove booth babes, and eventually it caught on slowly and now you see far less of them then you did 10 years ago. Part of the reason there is so much frustration is that the goals are trying to solve world hunger all in one go; I think more progress will be made by taking smaller goals and trying to solve them first.
 
The best thing that these media can do to help combat this is to act as a service to these women who are mistreated to name and publicly shame their harassers.

Blanket comments like the one in the article do get people on the defensive and don't put pressure anywhere specific to have changes be made.

Because until something bad happens to them as a result, the men that the article talk about will just go on being jerks and nothing changes.

Name studios, name names. People will react and in a specific way.
 
Was it Aisha Tyler who started the "this isn't Reddit, but ask me anything" thread? I remember she wasted little time establishing she wouldn't tolerate insults of any kind. That super-defensive stance right out of the gate makes me wonder what sort of flak she must get elsewhere online. I mean, we see in the OP article how hard it is for women online. But then you have Aisha, who is 1) a woman, 2) black, 3) a public figure, and 4) not afraid to speak her mind. I can only imagine the hate she must attract from the dark side of the Internet. I commend her for staying strong.
You wonder? She got plenty of flak on this forum when she's mentioned especially when she first started doing the conferences. She must certainly see some shit likely of the worst kind and the reddit thread from before disturbs me on precisely the kind. (I didn't even realise that place was so disturbing sometimes seriously.)
 
What I am referring to is a previous post where someone was not happy with the way women present themselves as sexual objects to attract men, such as in some twitch streams.

If I say something negative about how someone dresses, or say "hey I don't wan't to see that" ... I would be labelled as cultivating a culture of rape...
Uh so the way I read this is you went to some lady's personal stream, saw what she was wearing, and said something along the lines of her being an "attention whore." That's the way I'm interpreting your post in any case. And I guess the question I have is, what does your bad behavior have to do with women feeling that some threads here might make them feel excluded or pushed away?
 
Please tell me more about how I should not feel as a women being excluded on NeoGAF given the way the forum has talked in the past about some women.

I already said that i do not understand how women feel about this particular subject. I simply cannot, because I was never put in this situation. So I am not in a position to tell you how you should feel, think, or behave in this situation. That doesn't mean I don't have particular views or opinions on this subject. I am merely trying to help you understand my perspective.
 
Was it Aisha Tyler who started the "this isn't Reddit, but ask me anything" thread? I remember she wasted little time establishing she wouldn't tolerate insults of any kind. That defensive stance, right out of the gate, makes me wonder what sort of flak she must get elsewhere online. I mean, we see in the OP article how hard it is for women online. But then you have Aisha, who is 1) a woman, 2) black, 3) a public figure, and 4) not afraid to speak her mind. I can only imagine the hate she must attract from the dark side of the Internet. I commend her for staying strong.

Here's the thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=835856

and some context, wherein GAF gets called out: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=478206

Using the word "dicks" in the AMA was a bit of a callback I think. It's not like it's in response to some hidden corner of the internet - that stuff she was reacting to happened here too.
 
Trying to change the whole culture takes a lot longer, and screws everyone trying to get jobs now. We need to work on it. but I think it needs to be done incrementally because you're looking at a mind share / unconscious changing of standards. Good example for me is booth babes; PAX (AFAIK) took the initiative to remove booth babes, and eventually it caught on slowly and now you see far less of them then you did 10 years ago. Part of the reason there is so much frustration is that the goals are trying to solve world hunger all in one go; I think more progress will be made by taking smaller goals and trying to solve them first.

The perfect is the enemy of the good and all that.
 
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