Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue
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Skullface
Member
You've got to understand that no one admits fault prior to an investigation. Also, that doesn't for a second point to guilt. It's not apparent that they're engaged in some active cover up.
Have you something to say?
Email the new york times and see which official gave them that statement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/u...er-as-holder-schedules-visit.html?ref=us&_r=1
benjipwns
Banned
It's not a special cover up, it's SOP.
The county said they didn't have one from him last week, I'm doubting that's changed.
Why would it be "fault" to document a good shoot.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
Why, are you the US government?
Because that rule only applies to them in advance of a trial. It's kind of nonsensical for a normal person with access to this much information to the contrary to act that way.
Skullface
Member
La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo?!
They were asked not to release the store video by state/national authorities and did it anyway. They refuse to give out a name for a week. They tell "Wilson's side" through third parties. They actively inflamed the situation on the ground in Ferguson, escalating a bad situation into the tempest we've been dealing with for a week +. They aren't actively investigating Wilson, so why are they releasing information at all? The reason we don't have a statement from Wilson: his Union lawyer told him not to do one. Why would you want to do that? Because it lets you change your story later.
Skullface
Member
I'm not arguing that particular point. But with any business, public office etc., this behavior isn't unusual or remotely unique to this event where any issue of liability is concerned.
benjipwns
Banned
Didn't you hear? We're having the trial here on GAF first. Then we'll send Wilson to jail for being guilty.
We aren't Cardassians.
Well, except for the part where the private citizens are hauled down to the station for questioning on the record and then probably charged with something if they refuse to come and give any kind of statement.
Skullface
Member
That hypothetical person would be wise not to speak, because the chances are, they'll be charged regardless.
TacticalFox88
Banned
In my ultimate head fantasies, it's all a ruse to trick all the racists into donating and the people who started are going to give it to Mike Brown's fam as a "Fuck you"
...
Maybe unemployed White people should start getting into law enforcement. Sounds quite lucrative if you take the life of another (Black) person.
Skullface
Member
I'll bet you think this shooting was racially motivated as well.
benjipwns
Banned
Unless they had a good case for self-defense which would ward off charges. Then going into hiding for weeks is probably not a good defense strategy.
Skullface
Member
You've lost me.
Except for the part where cops who discharge firearms usually write reports.
Especially when they shoot someone six times.
Even when someone dies.
LiveFromKyoto
Member
The fact that we don't have that power is exactly the reason why we're free to use common sense. Unless you still think OJ was innocent.
oh baby we're so far apart that I'm unsure if we'll ever reach a common understanding.
benjipwns
Banned
If I shoot you and then go into hiding for weeks I am most definitely going to face a huge amount of charges.
If instead, I can make a case that it was self-defense then in it is in my interests to cooperate and give my version of events since I am the only witness.
This is how Zimmerman initially avoided charges and then got acquitted.
If I am an officer of the law and required to issue such a report after shooting someone, doing so is even more in my best interests. Hiding without doing so while my copatriots smear the dead is probably not.
No-one can say exactly what was passing through Wilson's mind when he shot Brown.
It is a sad truth though that police brutality frequently falls along racial lines in the United States. There's a substantial amount of evidence that subconscious (or conscious) racist stereotypes mean that African-Americans are more likely to be perceived as a threat than white people. This factors into play when it comes to the split-second decision to shoot an unarmed suspect.
http://www.newrepublic.com/article/119060/michael-brown-studies-show-racial-bias-police-shootings
Skullface
Member
This point that you've reintroduced.. That's the point I said I wasn't arguing. Because you're not wrong with this particular point. But none of this means "guilty". There could very well be a reasonable explanation.
damn. he brought up OJ. anyway, it seems like they're in damage control mode instead of law enforcement mode. No one has interviewed the eyewitnesses, I don't think they have given the clothes over so they could be inspected for powder burns, they send out a fucking one line police report with nothing but a date and an address on it, and they have old officer wilson hiding in a safe house somewhere because his life is in so much danger with every PD in the st louis metro area and every respectable law and order citizen forming a protective barrier around him.
So far it looks like shit. but at least the world is watching, which if it weren't this would probably already be over and done and officer wilson on his way back to duty.
So far it looks like shit. but at least the world is watching, which if it weren't this would probably already be over and done and officer wilson on his way back to duty.
Skullface
Member
Yikes
benjipwns
Banned
And yet, neither Wilson nor the Furgeson PD seem to be interested in giving that explanation...
Sorry for the abrasive post, but unless that audio is discredited I don't see how anyone can take a neutral stance on this at the moment.
If there was one volley of shots Wilson could still have an argument, but with 2 volleys, the number of shots, and what we know from the autopsy Wilson crossed a line as soon as he got out of the car.
He was shooting to kill an unarmed man from distance who posed no threat.
If there was one volley of shots Wilson could still have an argument, but with 2 volleys, the number of shots, and what we know from the autopsy Wilson crossed a line as soon as he got out of the car.
He was shooting to kill an unarmed man from distance who posed no threat.
of course it wasn't. in fact, quite the opposite, it was his own white guilt that caused the gun to discharge.
awhile back someone here asked if you can fire a whole police department, and the answer is yes. because they did, to Wilson's former department.
This isn't a "point" being reintroduced.
The entire situation could be explained away if officer wilson would have written his report.
It's despicable that anyone would try to defend the fact that a police office shot and killed a person and there isn't god damn first hand account from the officer himself.
Skullface
Member
I think the way that you present the fact that Wilson's former police department was disbanded is intentionally misleading. Many of those officers got their jobs back when that department was reestablished. Wilson chose to go else where.
Skullface
Member
Are you not seeing the part where I agree with you? It's sketch that there's no incident report. This doesn't mean he's guilty though, not by a long shot.
Ninja Scooter
Member
And we are all entitled to that explanation, like, yesterday. The police work for us. They serve us. This isn't Mayberry rfd where they are just golly gee good old Boy Scouts. Stop giving them the benefit of the doubt just because they are cops. I don't care if they are the best cops in the world everything they do should be scrutinized.
If you think all of this uproar, the media attention, the fervor, the protests, the rioting, the anger is just about whether or not Wilson is a cold blooded murderer than you and your donations are incredibly misguided and you are really out if touch with what is happening in Ferguson and all around the country.
Skullface
Member
It's not because Wilson's a cop. Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Yet one person is dead and the other very much alive. We should assume that Brown did something that resulted in his death?
EDIT:
You are giving the benefit of the doubt to only one of the two parties. You are also giving the benefit to the guy who is alive and not to the person who can't defend themselves. It seem to me that the person who survived this life and death scenario should have to explain the details of why the other needed to die.
Skullface
Member
Everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Look, I get that you don't like me, but you need to chill out.
Ninja Scooter
Member
It has everything to do with him being a cop. We should hold him and his peers to a higher standard. We should demand the utmost transparency. And every step of the way Wilson and the department he is letting represent him have denied us of that and refused to give us any answers that we as the public are entitled to. I don't care if Wilson is innocent and really was just defending himself the Ferguson PD has been disgusting throughout this whole situation and should be investigated from top to bottom.
What? No. Him being a cop is absolutely crucial to this. Cops are not like average citizens.
benjipwns
Banned
At minimum equally. Wilson is currently not being given the same benefit of the doubt Brown would have received if the roles were reversed.
Don't worry, that's all you've been getting.
Thankfully, there's every indication that this is happening at a federal level.
When it comes to a criminal trial, you're absolutely correct: guilty until proven innocent. When it comes to whether or not there should even be a trial? No. You don't get the benefit of the doubt there. You get the benefit of the evidence. If evidence exists sufficient to support an indictment is not out-weighed by clearly exculpable evidence, then there should be charges brought and a trial held. This is what the protests were about: making sure that the evidence speaks and is heard over a police department's desire to protect its own and to make the incident about something it wasn't: the robbery/theft and whether or not Michael smoked a little weed.
Skullface
Member
Let's keep context in mind here. I'm not saying the fact he's a cop doesn't change the game, but Ninja Scooter told me to stop giving him the benefit of the doubt simply because Wilson's a cop. I'm not, everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, and being a cop doesn't take away from that. If there was any wrong doing, I am confident it will come out when this inevitably goes to trial and if he fucked up, he'll pay for it.
There will be a trial. I'm certain of this.
Someone needs to make a full summary of this whole thing, including peripheral events and media coverage. So far, we've discovered that at least one police officer in this force who has said the protestors should have "been put down like rabid dogs", and another has said expressed bigotry towards muslims and stated that "I'm into diversity. I kill everybody".
Yet another cop in this department has pointed guns directly at protestors and another physically assaulted a 12-year old girl with a pistol, but kept his job. Meanwhile, the orbital blowout story is false, and the "Josie" eyewitness absolving Wilson is a hoax, lifted from a Facebook page.
Wilson himself was a member of a police department that was disbanded, and I quote the Washington Post article:
Nothing to see here, move along.
Yet another cop in this department has pointed guns directly at protestors and another physically assaulted a 12-year old girl with a pistol, but kept his job. Meanwhile, the orbital blowout story is false, and the "Josie" eyewitness absolving Wilson is a hoax, lifted from a Facebook page.
Wilson himself was a member of a police department that was disbanded, and I quote the Washington Post article:
Nothing to see here, move along.
QuicheFontaine
Member
You're wasting your time. Skullface thinks that donating to one of the two parties demonstrates even-handedness and levelling of the playing field.
benjipwns
Banned
The full context is that most people don't share that confidence, especially because of the actions already taken by Wilson and the FPD where they have not acted like he was justified.
And they doubly don't understand donating to someone who already has a foot on his side of the scale in terms of getting more than the benefit of the doubt.
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