TheLostBigBoss
Banned
its as exaggerated and unrealistic as the way males are portrayed in games
He's the God of War.
New Tropes vs Women video is out (Women as Background Decoration pt. 2)
- Thread starter Fracas
- Start date
He's the God of War.
Riposte
Member
Do you have numbers to support that or is it what you'd like to think?
You're savvy enough to know that things on twitter can be faked, but you assume it's his real name?
Not trying to be a dick, dude, but why not just assume that it's a burner account without someone's real name that actually said these awful things -- because people say these awful things to outspoken women on the internet all the time -- instead of contemplating whether or not Sarkeesian faked threats against the lives of her own parents.
Big-ass Ramp
hella bullets that's true
Nah, I'm saying if it were a real account, that would be dumb to leave your full name like that. But yep, sexism is totally rampant on the internet. I agree with that.
It's what I think, I should have added "in my experience" I suppose.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Not sexual violence, no...
I know she said it for her first ever video for the series but I swear it bears repeating in each one that it's okay to enjoy these games despite the criticisms you can find in them. You can enjoy a thing as a whole but dislike or be critical of certain constituent parts of it. People do this all the time already. I don't know why it's so hard to extent towards this topic, though.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Ehh I don't know if that's true. Just for instance take HBO shows, think of all the sex and prostituion in them, then think of the main demographic for said shows.
Sober said:
Well that's the whole reason for the argument isn't it? Some people think it's unfair criticism. And to add, it's not a criticism of a game mechanic, but of a much heavier subject that holds more ramification. When she implies that these games are sexist, that's quite a heavy punch to throw, so it's understable for people to get offended by the criticism.
Because the drive towards "there are two sides to everything" has forced us to simplify arguments into "for" or "against" in an incredibly stupid and reductionist way, despite the fact that our model of education within the humanities at the university level and graduate level is built entirely around nuance based upon evidence.
There are no sides to some things. There are two sides to some things. There are dozens of perspectives to other things.
From my experience HBO shows include sex and prostitution for reasons much deeper than video games. At least in my community those who watch shows that do contain explicit content almost always say they watch it despite those scenes.
I'm thinking I should have used mature rather than adults
Lemming_JRS
Member
Option A: Someone who has *already* been doxxed and is receiving *actual* threats and invasions of their privacy sets up a fake Twitter account to post fake threats in order to garner additional sympathy to their cause, i.e. "false flag."
Option B: Someone wants to say horrible things to someone else via Twitter, yet doesn't want to get pilloried or arrested, sets up a fake Twitter account so they can say awful shit and then disappear without a trace.
Which one seems more plausible to you?
HINT: THE ANSWER IS B
Not to derail, but how exactly did you get "experience" in this?
I didn't get experience, I experienced it. from the people around me? You know, anecdotal?
All you have to do is search on her name and read through plenty of comparable tweets.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Is it surprising that gamers act like sports fans? Gamers and sports fans fit basically the same demographic profile.
Psykodoughboy
Banned
can't criticize her points without being labeled a women hater
B because people are stupid, and hateful people are extra stupid.
Another thought-provoking video, but could someone help explain a part for me?
There's a point in Sarkeesian's video where she talks about the fact that sexual violence is not reserved for the most dastardly of villains, but is more often carried out by regular, every-day people. But wouldn't it be better to associate sexual violence with "evil"? I understand that it's unrealistic and an oversimplification, but isn't it a good idea for the social consciousness to associate sexual violence with the vilest evil?
There's a point in Sarkeesian's video where she talks about the fact that sexual violence is not reserved for the most dastardly of villains, but is more often carried out by regular, every-day people. But wouldn't it be better to associate sexual violence with "evil"? I understand that it's unrealistic and an oversimplification, but isn't it a good idea for the social consciousness to associate sexual violence with the vilest evil?
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Well obviously not true as plenty of us have been doing so for the whole thread.
kvothe said:
As I understand she considers that morally irresponsible because it gives the idea that you should only fear rape from "evil" knife wielding maniacs, rather than close friends, where statistically, rapes are more likely to come from.
I'm just having fun with you because when you put together what you said and say it outloud it sounds funny as hell actually in a sad and morbid way.
"From my experience the majority of kids enjoy prostitution in their games more than adults"
Almost sounds like a commercial. 9 out of 10 experts say kids enjoy prostitution in their games.
Strawman ahoy.
The work - the video - exists to foster discussion, hence criticism of the work is welcome, in fact encouraged.
It doesn't welcome personal attacks or doxxing.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Honestly I think this is one of those areas where she'd be denouncing those portrayals just as hard, if they were common. I agree with a lot of what she says, but this just seems like arguing in bad faith.
EdibleKnife
Member
Uh you can totally criticize her without being labeled a woman hater. Several people who love her videos would also claim that her research and points are not without their flaws.
Imru al-Qays;127403828 said:
Not sure that it's surprising, but I can't say that it's productive or even very healthy. At least with sports you get an off season.
Lots of people in this thread calling other people women haters?
Imru al-Qays;127403828 said:
People act the same with political parties: they may in their heart have disagreed with a notion or idea but are willing to eschew their perception and go balls-deep supporting the party line because it identifies who they are.
At it's core it's just tribalism.
The point there is that it's normalized to the point of being unremarkable within media and thus perpetuates it socially.
Not that media makes you do anything. But the fact that you're in and around it regularly makes it unremarkable.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Oh, absolutely. Hell, after gamers, sports fans, and Tea Party types the people that spring to mind most readily to me for engaging in this sort of behavior are internet feminists.
Señor Coyote
Banned
I wonder how many of you that are up in arms of violence against women in video games are also against violent video games in general. Since Men are four times more likely to be a victim of homicide than a women it would make sense to see violence against men just as much of a problem as violence against women yet I see no discussion about this.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Señor Coyote;127404902 said:
That's a fair discussion to have, but her videos are 1) about women, and 2) about sexual violence/placement etc.
While I think in concept it would be fair and probably smarter/cause less hassle/threats/upset to discuss all sides from all genders in these videos, that's not what she's doing.
Ah, okay. So she's saying that these portrayals potentially endanger women by giving them false ideas about who's more likely to rape them. I guess this constant "super evil rapist" character could also lead to people saying "Billy isn't a rapist! He's not super evil!" when in fact, he is a rapist but just seems like an everyday Joe (or Billy).
I also think there's a pretty big danger for young men assuming that rape is a thing that only truly evil men do to helpless women they've never met. More often than not, rape is a man who assumes he knows what a woman he is already acquainted with wants without bothering to ask.
Look at how many abusive husbands and boyfriends would hardly think to call themselves that, because obviously they are loving. Nothing like those monsters on TV.
These heightened portrayals that hardly match reality make it harder for both men and women to notice the signs of actually dangerous behavior that is way more common.
But, in this case, it's normalizing the idea that sexual violence is evil and bad. By always associating it with villains. So, shouldn't that be good?
Exactly. There's this idea of a "hiding in the bushes rapist" that's a complete joke because you're much more likely for a victim to personally know the rapist than for it to be a stranger.
That's a bit of a non-sequitur.Señor Coyote;127404902 said:
The thread is not about violence in-and-of-itself. It's about the propping of one genders' portrayal across a vast layer of this medium.
Violence in games is effectively a 20-year-long discussion ever since Doom came out. It's just become buried because we're so desensitized with...well, it's become a god damn joke at this point ever since Dead Rising 2's weapons and Suda games and Gears and countless other examples.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
This is true today in the developed world, where efficient policing keeps most forms of public violence between strangers to a minimum. It may not have always been true in other times and places.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Just throw it on the back of the box somewhere.
And this media is created for modern 1st world nations, so that caveat is unnecessary.
LTTP in giving props to this comment. It really is the thing in a nutshell, and while I was watching the video, I kept hoping Sarkeesian would make this connection. It would have cut down the criticism substantially.
IdreamofHIME
Member
its as exaggerated and unrealistic as the way males are portrayed in games
Duuuuuude
Don't be 'that guy'. Kratos is not a female sexual fantasy...he's a male power fantasy.
Go watch a 90's Diet Coke commercial for the objectification of a male....but don't be posting pics of Kratos.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
It's not always created about modern first world nations, though, which was my point. It's a bit silly to criticize games set in other times and places for not faithfully representing the sexual assault demographics of our time and place.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Señor Coyote;127404902 said:
It's more that violence against women in games tends to be sexual in nature than violence against women in games is too common.
Take the God of War 3 example. You pull her around on a leash and shove her under a gear to use her body as a wedge so you can keep a gate open. Kratos does much, much worse over the course of the game to male enemies, but what stands out is that she has a tit sticking out. It'd prompt a few raised eyebrows if it weren't such a common theme with how women are portrayed in games.
Paracelsus
Member
So basically a male is objectified only when the image that comes out of it is fruity? Sounds like fujoshi.
ChawlieTheFair
pip pip cheerio you slags!
Well surely both are cause for titillation, as both are mean't for the "entertainment". The world is just as important as the characters in it.
pretty much
Imru al-Qays
Banned
Does it matter what the dev's intent is, though? If it mattered what the dev's intent was presumably we would never feel the need to criticize games for anything, because devs presumably never intend to create problematic portrayals.
If your criticism of portrayals of stranger sexual assault is that sexual assault is factually more likely to occur between acquaintances that's fine. But confine that criticism to cases where it makes logical sense. You can't remove the factual basis for the criticism and still make it.
Yeah this doesn't sound homophobic or anything