Doctor Who Series 8 |OT| We've fucking time-travelled, yes?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Trike

Member
That fits into my big fat hope that the 10th anniversary features McGann, Eccleston, and Capaldi, with Captain Jack as the "companion" for the episode, as all of those characters have some pretty big "Failings" they have yet to address to their own satisfaction (McGann chose to abandon the name he gave himself, for example, Jack abandoned Torchwood after Children of Earth, etc. etc)

Would be great to see Eccleston and Capaldi rage at each other. Or Eccleston getting made at McGann for the choice he made. Though I don't consider what he did as giving up or failing. He did what he had to do to stop a horrible war that was destroying the universe, but he was unable to save that girl which would fit in with the theme.
 

iMax

Member
Eccleston is never coming back.

Now, I'd love to see McGann with Capaldi in an episode, though

He never had beef with the show, did he? I thought it was just the cast and production team, which has changed a lot since his departure.
 
He never had beef with the show, did he? I thought it was just the cast and production team, which has changed a lot since his departure.

He had issues with Phil Collinson, one of the old producers, and one of the directors on his series in particular (who was never asked back), but his primary beef appears to be with the fanbase that aren't kids. He did the show because he wanted to act for kids. That was it.

He's generally a bit of an arsehole, it seems like. A lot of the people he fought with Tennant, Piper, Barrowman et al got on like a house on fire with, and Barrowman once described him as being incredibly combative on set, basically saying he and Billie would have a laugh and a joke with the rest of the crew and he'd remain a disconnected, moody sod. I just don't think he likes these green-screen heavy, bluster and explosion sort of jobs. He does the Hollywood ones for the money (this is a man who took to the red carpet at the Thor 2 premiere and said he took on the role because he fancied new furniture, and in another instance described GI Joe as "shit, but it paid the mortgage") -- and he did Who because he wanted to tick acting for children off his bucket list. He definitely dislikes the sci-fi nerd side of Who, though, he's talked on that a few times in the past.
 
We never saw Journey's brothers face right? Her surname is Blue and Danny's is Pink, like Clara said to her. I wonder if there's a connection there. Maybe Danny is a soldier from the future and he doesn't remember or something like that and the Doctor and Clara will bump into him, or someone who looks like him, in later episodes.

I'm starting to think that Danny is a plant.
 

Maddocks

Member
Seems to be a few things for him. The rabid fanbase, think he didn't care for the older group of fans hounding him everywhere he went and the crew. I forget what it was, that the crew wasn't respectful or he wanted the higher ups to respect the crew. I remember reading about the crew and how that was an influence.
 
Eccleston will come crawling back when he realizes he's abandoning his pension.

Eccleston's actually a good actor, though - which isn't technically true for a number of the Doctors. Tom, for instance, isn't really a good actor IMO, he was just born to play this particular part. He'll not struggle for money for a long time.

He'll be like Tom, though. Or Shatner with Star Trek. When he's in his seventies and everything else seems too tiring, he'll start doing the convention circuit and stuff.
 
It'll be interesting to see whether we ever get to see Ecclestone, Tennant or Smith doing audios. It's been 10 years since Chris had the part. It would be easy money for him.
 
Seems to be a few things for him. The rabid fanbase, think he didn't care for the older group of fans hounding him everywhere he went and the crew. I forget what it was, that the crew wasn't respectful or he wanted the higher ups to respect the crew. I remember reading about the crew and how that was an influence.

Here's some choice quotes from the man himself, draw conclusions as you wish:
"I thought to remain, which would have made me a lot of money and given me huge visibility, the price I would have had to pay was to eat a lot of shit. I’m not being funny about that. I didn’t want to do that and it comes to the art of it, in a way. I feel that if you run your career and– we are vulnerable as actors and we are constantly humiliating ourselves auditioning. But if you allow that to go on, on a grand scale you will lose whatever it is about you and it will be present in your work. If you allow your desire to be successful and visible and financially secure – if you allow that to make you throw shades on your parents, on your upbringing, then you’re knackered. You’ve got to keep something back, for yourself, because it’ll be present in your work. A purity or an idealism is essential or you’ll become– you’ve got to have standards, no matter how hard work that is. So it makes it a hard road, really.

You know, it’s easy to find a job when you’ve got no morals, you’ve got nothing to be compromised, you can go, ‘Yeah, yeah. That doesn’t matter. That director can bully that prop man and I won’t say anything about it’. But then when that director comes to you and says ‘I think you should play it like this’ you’ve surely got to go ‘How can I respect you, when you behave like that?’ So, that’s why I left. My face didn’t fit and I’m sure they were glad to see the back of me. The important thing is that I succeeded. It was a great part. I loved playing him. I loved connecting with that audience. Because I’ve always acted for adults and then suddenly you’re acting for children, who are far more tasteful; they will not be bullshitted. It’s either good, or it’s bad. They don’t schmooze at after-show parties, with cocktails."

If I had to put it down to three things it is:
1) Disagreements with elements of the production and the BBC itself - the BBC's attitude towards a blockbuster show is very different than towards, say, the lower-key dramas he usually does with them. As soon as the show began to air and became this national phenomenon again, I think he was uncomfortable. He was already unhappy, the press/public reaction to the first 2-3 episodes, which was basically hysterical, sealed his decision. This stuff, which has reached a new zenith with the way Capaldi was announced for the role and then paraded around the world, is not what he wants at all.
2) His feeling that he's a "proper actor" and it's the sort of role that might not be befitting. A bit like how being James Bond is at once hugely prestigious and hugely looked-down-upon. He'd rather be on stage doing Shakespeare.
3) In line with 2, his dislike for the adult fanbase of what he absolutely perceives as a children's show. In interviews, he's said he feels like adults should grow out of things like Doctor Who and seek out 'deeper' drama. He likens Doctor Who to a 'gateway' drug for kids - get them with good stuff young, and they'll graduate to liking proper drama instead of soap operas and reality TV. He sees the adult fans as people who aren't 'graduating'.
 

iMax

Member
One thing that's been bugging me this series so far is the weird repetition—but now I'm starting to wonder if it's an arc of some sort.


  1. The Doctor thinking he's seen his face before (which still hasn't been resolved, has it?).
  2. The Doctor thinking he's seen the clockwork droids before.
  3. The "do you want some chips?" line?...
  4. ...followed by the "but I haven't got any money" line, which I swear Eccleston uttered in Rose.
  5. The imprisoned Dalek.
Am I losing it or is there something here?
 
One thing that's been bugging me this series so far is the weird repetition—but now I'm starting to wonder if it's an arc of some sort.


  1. The Doctor thinking he's seen his face before (which still hasn't been resolved, has it?).
  2. The Doctor thinking he's seen the clockwork droids before.
  3. The "do you want some chips?" line?...
  4. ...followed by the "but I haven't got any money" line, which I swear Eccleston uttered in Rose.
  5. The imprisoned Dalek.
Am I losing it or is there something here?

There's just a lot of repetition in general. "Well then, here we go again", which Vastra says, is straight up ripped from a 70s regeneration scene, and yes, the chips/money exchange is lifted from 'The End of the World' pretty fully. I don't think it means anything, it's just meant to be twee.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
One thing that's been bugging me this series so far is the weird repetition—but now I'm starting to wonder if it's an arc of some sort.


  1. The Doctor thinking he's seen his face before (which still hasn't been resolved, has it?).
  2. The Doctor thinking he's seen the clockwork droids before.
  3. The "do you want some chips?" line?...
  4. ...followed by the "but I haven't got any money" line, which I swear Eccleston uttered in Rose.
  5. The imprisoned Dalek.
Am I losing it or is there something here?

Uh, absolutely.

It all ties into the fact that he thinks he's trying to tell himself something by subconsciously picking that face during his regeneration, which has something to do with the fact that Capaldi played a character in Who before. (And maybe even tying into his appearance in Children of Earth, though I don't know why the Doctor would know anything about that.)

edit: I dunno, guys. I'm willing to believe anything means something after we had that jacket thing in season 5. I don't buy that it's all nonsense.
 

Trike

Member
The multiple Capaldi thing was confirmed by Moffat to be a plotline that came from RTD that never came to fruition due to his departure. At the time it just had to do with the multiple Capaldis, as he wasn't even close to being cast as the Doctor at the time. No idea if it will be resolved anytime soon though.
 

GulAtiCa

Member
Doctor Who is a children's show?

Granted, I'm in States and don't have cable, so I watch the episodes on Amazon, but from all the episodes I've seen, I'd figure it be aimed to people in general that like sci-fi, and not just a children's show.
 

LawfulEnder

Neo Member
Both of the first two episodes have been pretty clear callbacks to old episodes ("The Girl in the Fireplace" and "Dalek", respectively). Add the familiar dialogue and the comments on Capaldi's face and I think it's pretty clear that the series arc with Missy and Heaven/The Promised Land is somehow connected to the overall repetition.

It could be as simple as hinting at Missy being an old character who's returning or something much more complicated - but Moffat loves cleverness, so you can bet it's all intentional.

EDIT: Speaking of repetition, while rewatching the "You would make a good Dalek" clip from "Dalek" I noticed that the ninth told the Dalek in that episode that it "[was] gonna get rusty" when it was standing around getting rained on. Seems appropriate that he chooses to call this one Rusty.
 

Blader

Member
That was a pretty good ep, and it only got better toward the ending. "I am not a good Dalek. You are a good Dalek." Goddamn.

Definitely warming up to Capaldi more, but I also hope (and slightly expect) he'll soften a bit as time goes on too. It still feels like there's still too much of a disconnect between Eleven and Twelve, not necessarily because they're different people but because Moffat really wants to hammer home that they're different people, and the "darker, grittier, rough around the edges Doctor" angle feels a little too forced at times. But it was better in this episode and I think should improve more as the series goes on.

In either event, a strong episode and certainly the most interesting Dalek story in years.

The Curse of the Black Spot
Fun episode!

The Doctor's Wife
I hated it. It is actually my least favorite episode of the show.

Kuwabara's alt confirmed.
 

Toxi

Banned
Wow, that was a good episode. It managed to reconstruct the Daleks as both interesting and intimidating villains, and the episode defied my expectations by ending on a dark note.
 
Doctor Who is a children's show?

Granted, I'm in States and don't have cable, so I watch the episodes on Amazon, but from all the episodes I've seen, I'd figure it be aimed to people in general that like sci-fi, and not just a children's show.

In Britain, Doctor Who is considered to be a show for children, yes. Even the first episode of this season had devices designed by children as part of a contest: the gauntlet used to scan the T-Rex, Strax's medical device, and one other thing.
 

Toxi

Banned
I don't get why everyone is loving the "You are a good Dalek" line. It's just an echo of "You would make a good Dalek". Actually, the episode has a lot in common with "Dalek".
Except "Dalek was a great episode".
For me, it feels different. In "Dalek", the line is a biting insult and the Dalek knows it. In "Into the Dalek" the line is blind admiration. The Dalek sincerely sees the Doctor as a heroic example to live up to.

It's also a nice twist on the "Am I a good person?" line from the start of the episode.
 
Doctor Who is a children's show?

Granted, I'm in States and don't have cable, so I watch the episodes on Amazon, but from all the episodes I've seen, I'd figure it be aimed to people in general that like sci-fi, and not just a children's show.

It's a family show, really. 7pm, Saturday night... mum, dad and kids sit and watch it together. That's what it's always been (though the time slot was earlier), right since the 60s. It's one of the few 'event TV' things left in Britain.

One of the actresses in the show, Alex Kingston, actually described it really well - it's a children's show that adults watch too, but it really belongs to the kids. Akin to a good Disney or Pixar movie, really... designed for kids, but with depth and thought that makes it a fascinating watch for adults.
 

Trike

Member
For me, it feels different. In "Dalek", the line is a biting insult and the Dalek knows it. In "Into the Dalek" the line is blind admiration. The Dalek sincerely sees the Doctor as a heroic example to live up to.

It's also a nice twist on the "Am I a good person?" line from the start of the episode.

It's not admiration, it seems like it is the same meaning. Both recognize what would make a good Dalek. Rusty hated Daleks by the end too.
 

Toxi

Banned
It's not admiration, it seems like it is the same meaning. Both recognize what would make a good Dalek. Rusty hated Daleks by the end too.
Rusty admires the Doctor (Remember, he patterned himself off the Doctor's mind) and sees him as what a good Dalek would be.

The last Dalek on the other hand was trying to get under his skin.

I think this episode is a bit too reminiscent of previous Dalek stories (Genesis and Dalek especially), but I thought it had enough new stuff from both a character and a world-building angle to make me like it.
 

Caelus

Member
Just from what I've read of posts, even with the divisiveness of the episodes so far, it seems Capaldi's pretty much universally liked. That's awesome, I really can't wait for a multi-Doctor episode.

I also find the transition from Matt to Capaldi quite compelling, after nine-hundred years defending one planet and living a war, it'd make sense he'd be this on the edge, even with the warmth hidden underneath. All the "good man" questions make more sense, in this regard.
 

mclem

Member
It'll be interesting to see whether we ever get to see Ecclestone, Tennant or Smith doing audios. It's been 10 years since Chris had the part. It would be easy money for him.

I'd put money on: there's no way Tennant won't, down the line. He's too much of a fan of the show, he'd done extensive audio work (with Big Finish, even!) before. He's got way too big a career right now, but down the line, I'm sure he'll be lapping it up.
 

Trike

Member
Rusty admires the Doctor (Remember, he patterned himself off the Doctor's mind) and sees him as what a good Dalek would be.

The last Dalek on the other hand was trying to get under his skin.

I think this episode is a bit too reminiscent of previous Dalek stories (Genesis and Dalek especially), but I thought it had enough new stuff from both a character and a world-building angle to make me like it.

I see what you are getting at, but the way the Doctor receives the line is essentially the same. The line itself is also essentially the same, even if the delivery (and reason for the delivery) is different.

I thought the episode was too reminiscent of previous ones. Not just the Dalek episodes, but even "Let's Kill Hitler" had antibodies inside a robot shell. Not to mention I found the whole "shrink to do surgery" plot to be pretty cliched. I need to give it another watch, I think I am probably being too harsh on it.
 

Bluth54

Member
It'll be interesting to see whether we ever get to see Ecclestone, Tennant or Smith doing audios. It's been 10 years since Chris had the part. It would be easy money for him.

Well I don't have any doubt in my mind that Tennant and Smith would both be willing to come back and do the occasional episode of Doctor Who if the BBC comes calling again for another multi Doctor story, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to see them doing audios.
 
Well I don't have any doubt in my mind that Tennant and Smith would both be willing to come back and do the occasional episode of Doctor Who if the BBC comes calling again for another multi Doctor story, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to see them doing audios.
Didn't they basically confirm they'd be down for it? They're both incredibly faithful to the show, with Smith being very reluctant to leave in some ways it seems.

And yeah, think Eccleston might turn back to the show in his twilight years for an easy paycheque when his prides diminished a little.
 
I'd be absolutely shocked if Tennant and Smith don't leap at the chance to do anything DW related at any point in the future. Matt was doing a con in Calgary, like a month after TotD aired, so he's clearly not trying to distance himself from the property in any way.
 

Trike

Member
Big Finish does not currently have the rights to do audio plays based on the Ninth Doctor onward. I don't know if they chose not to have them or not. Honestly, they have a busy enough schedule for the five doctors they currently have that I don't think they need to anytime soon. Tennant has joked that he wondered if they didn't get picked up for a second series (and only had the christmas special) if he would still have gotten a Big Finish series.
 
Eccleston will do something Who related eventually. Its just a matter of if he will do it before he is over 70 or not IMO. The fact he turned down a short for the 50th probably means he isnt changing his mind any time soon though.


But for the 10 anniversary of NuWho I still think it would they did a story involving Rose and all those old character still in that other universe. They even have Tennant have a cameo as the Metacrisis Doctor if they wanted to do that.

Get Captain jack involved for some reason as well I guess. Would be neat if they did something for the 10th anniversary that gave Captain jack and Torchwood a bit more closure then they got.
 

mclem

Member
Big Finish does not currently have the rights to do audio plays based on the Ninth Doctor onward. I don't know if they chose not to have them or not.

I should point out that in my expectation of seeing Tennant doing the role in audio at some point, I'm assuming something a long way down the line.
 
But for the 10 anniversary of NuWho I still think it would they did a story involving Rose and all those old character still in that other universe. They even have Tennant have a cameo as the Metacrisis Doctor if they wanted to do that.

Get Captain jack involved for some reason as well I guess. Would be neat if they did something for the 10th anniversary that gave Captain jack and Torchwood a bit more closure then they got.

If there was ever a time to bring back Rose it would have been in the 50th, and I'm pretty sure Moffat himself said that RTD had wrapped up Rose's story and he didn't want to touch it, hence bringing back Billie Piper as a different character.

I'm not sure what they can do with the 10th anniversary really. I mean, Eccleston won't come back that's pretty much guaranteed. I feel like if you bring back old Doctors again you need to pair them with companions this time to differentiate it from the 50th, otherwise you're just swapping out John Hurt for Capaldi.

You could maybe pair 10 with Donna and 11 with Amy, but if Clara really is leaving at the end of the series/at Christmas then you have a companionless 12.

I actually like the idea of having the actual 'anniversary episode' just be the side characters. Have Jack working with the Paternoster Gang, bumping in to old characters and companions from the past 10 years, working to find the Doctor. And then maybe a small mini episode of the three new Doctors goofing off in some side story.
 
Tennant's even been in Big Finish before, just playing different characters.

For the 10th Anniversary they should marry the two eras together a little more tightly through UNIT; let's see Martha again, still working there, and see her with Kate. And then find a role for Jack.
 

Bluth54

Member
Tennant's even been in Big Finish before, just playing different characters.

For the 10th Anniversary they should marry the two eras together a little more tightly through UNIT; let's see Martha again, still working there, and see her with Kate. And then find a role for Jack.

Doing something like that would be nice. I like Moffat, but the one thing about his run of Who that really disappoints me is his almost complete disconnect from the RTD era.

It doesn't have to be much. Maybe just an episode or two with Martha Jones, an episode or two with Captain Jack after he wasn't able to film a Good Man Goes to War, heck even if Catherine Tate was willing to come back for an episode I'm sure they could come up with some BS way for the Doctor to temporary bring back her memories.

Honestly I would like to see something like that maybe once a year (aside from maybe the first year with a new Doctor).
 

Fireblend

Banned
Doing something like that would be nice. I like Moffat, but the one thing about his run of Who that really disappoints me is his almost complete disconnect from the RTD era.

It doesn't have to be much. Maybe just an episode or two with Martha Jones, an episode or two with Captain Jack after he wasn't able to film a Good Man Goes to War, heck even if Catherine Tate was willing to come back for an episode I'm sure they could come up with some BS way for the Doctor to temporary bring back her memories.

Honestly I would like to see something like that maybe once a year (aside from maybe the first year with a new Doctor).

I'd shed a tear of happiness if she got her memories back :'( it would probably fuck with her marriage, but who cares, I want proper Donna back. Proper Donna would have preferred to die with her memories intact rather than go back to her previous life. Doctor Donna would be even better.
 

tuffy

Member
Doing something like that would be nice. I like Moffat, but the one thing about his run of Who that really disappoints me is his almost complete disconnect from the RTD era.
I think that's to be expected, though. Moffat considers them RTD's characters and would rather leave them alone than try to put his own spin on them. It's the same reason he brought back Billy Piper for the 50th, but not Rose's character.
 
I'm all for the return of occasional familiar faces, but let's not go too crazy on it. That episode with a full Tardis of RTD-era companions towing the Earth home was kind of cringeworthy in how fanboy-targeted it was. Like "Look at all these characters you know!"

Just use the characters if it's appropriate for a theme/episode, but don't bring them back for the sake of bringing them back. It has to make sense.
 
I think that's to be expected, though. Moffat considers them RTD's characters and would rather leave them alone than try to put his own spin on them. It's the same reason he brought back Billy Piper for the 50th, but not Rose's character.

That's why they should bring RTD himself back too, just for one special.
 

Vinci

Danish
I think that's to be expected, though. Moffat considers them RTD's characters and would rather leave them alone than try to put his own spin on them. It's the same reason he brought back Billy Piper for the 50th, but not Rose's character.

Frankly The Moment was a less annoying character than Rose.
 
A new RTD episode would be cool but I understand if he wouldn't want to step back in like that.

I do miss the charm of that era. Not sure if it was his Russell's take on Who, Tennent or the iffy production values. The show was just more "fun" for those series



Anyway if they wanted to bring someone back I would say Captain Jack would be the best pick. Donna and Martha wouldn't really add much. Rose as others said, that story kind of has a bow on it.

Captain Jack (and Torchwood I guess if they wanted) on the other hand was left in limbo. There is stuff they could do there.



While on the subject, I never could get through S1 for Torchwood. I hear it got better but then got much, much worse by the end.
 

Htown

STOP SHITTING ON MY MOTHER'S HEADSTONE
I just want somebody to un-break Donna's mind so she gets to remember having awesome adventures

Is that so wrong?
 
Moffat asks RTD every series if he wants to write an episode but he's always said no.

Yeah, this is true still, even this year.

I feel like RTD might break down and say yes in the next year or two. He'll want to write for as many Doctors as he can, as a fan (a bit like how Moffat's mental checklist was satisfied by getting McGann into a mini-episode) and there's no other outlet to write for Capaldi.

I really enjoyed what he wrote for Smith, it was nice.
 

Dalek

Member
I've rewatched Deep Breath and Into the Dalek-and I have to say that while I do like Capaldi (he's a tremendous actor with great screen presence)-I'm wondering if maybe I'm finding The Doctor himself to be a bit...boring? Granted he's not as manic as 11 or charming as 10, etc., and it's only been 2 episodes-but I get the impression that The Doctor was really just Mr. Exposition in these two episodes.

I could be wrong, and I often have trouble articulating these feelings and impressions, but maybe I'm not the only one that feels something is off about him so far?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom