Digital Foundry: Performance Analysis: Destiny on Xbox One

Jessie.Bristol said:
Why are so many people talking shit about the parity on Destiny? Bungie had a visual target, they nailed it. It was 1080p30 on PS4, Microsoft sent engineers to Bungie to help them optimize the game to 1080p30 instead of 900p30. Are you guys saying Bungie should have delayed the game to make the game look better since the Xbox One was able to achieve parity late into development? That is ridiculous.
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Exactly. This is just silly. (perhaps Sony should have sent over engineers to increased the visual POP of the ps4 version? Why is it up to Bungie to spend more money on the PS4 development?)
 
crazycracker said:
Increasing those things in a build costs money and time? Should they had spent time utilizing the PS4 controller screen? Should they have added Kinect features? When is it ok when the developer draws the line? Should Bungie had created more assets just for the PS4 version because its 50% more powerful than the xbox one? (I'm just throwing a number out there) I am not a developer so I'm just guessing here...

This topic has been beaten to death already in previous threads, but Bungie made a great looking game on the PS4...isn't that enough?
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How does tweaking an anisotropic filtering or shadow resolution setting equate to implementing entirely new system-specific features?
 
ElTorro said:
Care to elaborate and give evidence for these claims? Because they are extraordinary given that all major parts of both the PS4 and the XBO are virtually PC technology and come from the very same product line of the very same manufacturer.
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Pretty much. Both are AMD machines with some custom chips to handle other tasks. Outside of those custom chips and memory architecture, they're pretty much identical.
 
ElTorro said:
rknxao.gif
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ElTorro the GOAT
 
KKRT00 said:
Awful analogy. You cant compare it this way.
What would be 900p or less stable framerate, or slightly lower quality post processing in Your analogy? Yeah ...
People need to stop looking at %, but what are real advantages of that difference. Difference that is well documented in PC world.
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My point is that you can't say that 530GFLOPS is a slight difference when it's 40% of the FLOPS of one of the GPU's in the comparison.

There is no talking around this. how does 530 GFLOPS become slight when 1310 GFLOPS is all that one of the GPU's have?
 
Shin-Ra said:
How does tweaking an anisotropic filtering or shadow resolution setting equate to implementing entirely new system-specific features?
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Like I said, I'm not a developer, so maybe it would have been easy to implement? I suppose if that is the case...its surprising they didn't do it considering the Sony deal that they had in place for advertisement.
 
The Game looks and plays great on both systems just enjoy it and realize some games especially cross gen games will not fully utilize either machine. I expect to see parity in third party cross gen games what I do not expect to see is parity in next (current) gen only games. I cannot wait to see the DF write ups on Batman,Evolve,CoD and Unity..... now that will be an interesting read.
 
Infinite Xero said:
Do people think resolution and frame rate are the only components of a video game's presentation?
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Hm..Yes, seems like it.

I mean are those people even using their eyes? Or just talking about numbers when it comes to pressntation?
Destiny is a good example for great art design.
 
OsirisBlack said:
The Game looks and plays great on both systems just enjoy it and realize some games especially cross gen games will not fully utilize either machine. I expect to see parity in third party cross gen games what I do not expect to see is parity in next (current) gen only games. I cannot wait to see the DF write ups on Batman,Evolve,CoD and Unity..... now that will be an interesting read.
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isnt cod released in every platform under the heavens? or did i miss the only next gen announcement?
 
Journey said:
That's a difference in numbers, but what's the tangible (visual) difference in a modern architecture with similar feature set? Is it same game assets with 900p vs 1080p resolution? And if equal resolution, how much assets have to be dialed back? is it 4xAA vs 2xAA, some shadow quality or SSAO? I believe it's too complicated to quantify.

I truly believe that Bungie set a proper target for Destiny current gen version, and another target for last gen version. They designated assets to run at 1080p on PS4 and 900p on Xbox one, which seems reasonable given the power gap and the drivers that Bungie had at hand when the assessment was made. Then later MS did some drastic changes to the SDK by removing Kinect requirements plus optimizing esram utilization.

Bottom line is, without any changes, the original assessment had a 1080p PS4 version vs a 900p XBO version with equal assets, but given the last minute changes plus help from MS, Bungie was able to update the Xbox One version's resolution. I don't think this has anything to do, or had any effect on the PS4 version which would have looked the same had MS made changes or not. The only difference is that with MS doing nothing, Destiny would have been 1080p on PS4 and 900p on Xbox One, and everyone would have been happy, vs what we have now.
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If they can do that much with 131 GFLOPS being freed from Kinect just imagine what they could do with the 530 GFLOPS that the PS4 GPU has free compared to the Xbox One GPU?
 
onQ123 said:
If they can do that much with 131 GFLOPS being freed from Kinect just imagine what they could do with the 530 GFLOPS that the PS4 GPU has free compared to the Xbox One GPU?
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Exactly. Some people like to bring up the 10% Kinest-less improvement as substantial but pretend like the 40% improvement the PS4 has is a myth. You can't have it both ways.
 
LukasTaves said:
You are reducing very complex designs to a single number to come up with a performance delta. This is a bit naïve...

There are many things that impeach a gpu from being 100% utilized all the time, even with heavily optimized code for the architecture (remember that Tomorrow Land's gpu usage slide? That empty spaces shows just that).

And yes, they are largely the same architecture, but Ms chose to offer more on chip storage than processing power, that also skews the comparison somewhat (I have no idea to what degree, but I've seen many many papers, even from SMD itself that suggest that more on memory chip could indeed bring huge performance gains).
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Links? Do they talk about CPU or GPU?
 
onQ123 said:
If they can do that much with 131 GFLOPS being freed from Kinect just imagine what they could do with the 530 GFLOPS that the PS4 GPU has free compared to the Xbox One GPU?
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I don't think it was from Kinect alone, not by a long shot. Kinect resources removal, plus optimizations done to the SDK by MS, plus Microsoft assisting with resources to get the team up to speed.

There's no question that a PS4 sequel of Destiny will see drastic improvements, but what I'm trying to say is that had Destiny remained at 900p on Xbox One, it would have no effect on PS4 since Sony didn't update their drivers and come in with a team of developers to help bungie boost Destiny's performance... they didn't need to because it was already hitting the desired target.

Destiny looks beautiful on PS4 imo, I haven't seen what it looks like on XBO but from the sounds of it, it looks just as good. I guess that's good news for Xbox fans but I don't see how that affects me or how I should be upset that Bungie didn't also set a new team to try an add 4xAA instead of 2xAA, or add a few more shadows here and there, or let the game run at fluctuating 50'ish fps a la Tomb Raider instead of a locked 30.
 
Parity was in their best financial interest especially when MS's engineers aided them. PS4 owners should be happy that the game looks and plays the way it does w/o being compromised innately due to the parity. PS4 version wasn't downgraded; Xbone version was upgraded.

Does this mean that more could have been done with the PS4 version? Undoubtedly but why put in the time, resources and money when there is no substantial incentive to do so?

If it bothers anyone that much then he/she ought to display his/her dissatisfaction with his/her wallet.
 
-tetsuo- said:
Disgraceful. Bungie must still have some deep rooted ties to M$ for them to force parity onto such a huge game as this. One that is basically exclusive to PS4, even. THe PS4 is 40% more powerful the the Xbox loss and Bungie is not taking advantage of it why? It should be 60fps on PS4 but Halo posters still hang from the walls of Bungies bathroom for them to jerk off to and they can't bring themself to make a proper game.
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tumblr_lfgedkLORG1qgnsnbo1_400.gif
 
pixlexic said:
Minor? You will never find a pc with the same hardware set up. Not even close.

Comparing the basis of something like the xbone's logic board to a pc logic board is crazy.
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What are you talking about man? These are pretty of the shelf parts in fact given how GCN 1.1 is designed the customization that Sony and Microsoft have put it in are even less significant. Unless you have a link proving otherwise, these are safe off the shelf parts with minor customizations.
 
badb0y said:
What are you talking about man? These are pretty of the shelf parts in fact given how GCN 1.1 is designed the customization that Sony and Microsoft have put it in are even less significant. Unless you have a link proving otherwise, these are safe off the shelf parts with minor customizations.
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I'm talking more on the logic board side of things. The xbone has custom chips to do things like move memory around.. as well as the ps4 to a lesser extent.



Then there is also the pros and cons of unfied memory versus separated memory pools which also go into the xbone's custom esram and move engines set up.
 
Akai__ said:
A capture card that can record uncompressed video and a FPS monitoring tool like FRAPS.

That's at least what I heared from others. Not sure if it really works like this.
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I've tried this doesn't seem to work. All it does it shows the file frame rate or the output. It does for PC games but some reason not through a cap card unless I'm doing something wrong.
 
Journey said:
I don't think it was from Kinect alone, not by a long shot. Kinect resources removal, plus optimizations done to the SDK by MS, plus Microsoft assisting with resources to get the team up to speed.

There's no question that a PS4 sequel of Destiny will see drastic improvements, but what I'm trying to say is that had Destiny remained at 900p on Xbox One, it would have no effect on PS4 since Sony didn't update their drivers and come in with a team of developers to help bungie boost Destiny's performance... they didn't need to because it was already hitting the desired target.

Destiny looks beautiful on PS4 imo, I haven't seen what it looks like on XBO but from the sounds of it, it looks just as good. I guess that's good news for Xbox fans but I don't see how that affects me or how I should be upset that Bungie didn't also set a new team to try an add 4xAA instead of 2xAA, or add a few more shadows here and there, or let the game run at fluctuating 50'ish fps a la Tomb Raider instead of a locked 30.
Click to expand...

I'm not really concerned with Destiny looking & playing the same on both consoles I was talking about the person saying that there was little to slightly difference in power between the PS4 & Xbox One. that was flat out wrong and before MS updated the clock rate & freed up the 10% taken up by Kinect, PS4 was going to be damn near 2X more powerful than Xbox One for games. That's when all the lies about special sauce and so on was floating around to try to help the Xbox One look better & people was saying it was only a small difference they was lying flat out & some people are still holding on to them lies.
 
Journey said:
That's a difference in numbers, but what's the tangible (visual) difference in a modern architecture with similar feature set? Is it same game assets with 900p vs 1080p resolution? And if equal resolution, how much assets have to be dialed back? is it 4xAA vs 2xAA, some shadow quality or SSAO? I believe it's too complicated to quantify.

I truly believe that Bungie set a proper target for Destiny current gen version, and another target for last gen version. They designated assets to run at 1080p on PS4 and 900p on Xbox one, which seems reasonable given the power gap and the drivers that Bungie had at hand when the assessment was made. Then later MS did some drastic changes to the SDK by removing Kinect requirements plus optimizing esram utilization.

Bottom line is, without any changes, the original assessment had a 1080p PS4 version vs a 900p XBO version with equal assets, but given the last minute changes plus help from MS, Bungie was able to update the Xbox One version's resolution. I don't think this has anything to do, or had any effect on the PS4 version which would have looked the same had MS made changes or not. The only difference is that with MS doing nothing, Destiny would have been 1080p on PS4 and 900p on Xbox One, and everyone would have been happy, vs what we have now.
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Good post. 40% in raw TFlop difference is just a number. How that translates to on-screen differences is quite complicated. Unless you're a developer who understands both the Xbone and PS4 architecture then complaining about what should or shouldn't be in the PS4 version is just fanboy drivel. I have a PS4, but the lengths people go to to feel superior about their console of choice is ridiculous.
 
Soooooo much salt.

Can't we all just be happy that we all have a really beautiful, fun game to play?

Really, outside of being the Internet, why all the hatred and anger? You guys know that isn't good for you, right? It will just make you bitter and hardened.
 
Deadpool_X said:
Soooooo much salt.

Can't we all just be happy that we all have a really beautiful, fun game to play?

Really, outside of being the Internet, why all the hatred and anger? You guys know that isn't good for you, right? It will just make you bitter and hardened.
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Pretty much this. Going forward, unless Sony is keen on differentiating itself on the third party front, people should start expecting parity as the norm. That extra horsepower innately provides headroom but it does not necessitate exploitation w/o desirable return on investment of resources.

At the least, the days of inferior ports for PS only owners are only memories.
 
Good to seen that both platforms get a good experience. I don't expect Destiny to have been pushing the hardware for either of the platforms outside of the big environments considering you cant really interact with anything outside of the enemies.

I was actually surprised Box 1 was initially having issues getting to 1080p considering how Bungie said getting parity was the most important priority for them, even between generations.

But yeah, the reach engine is really scalable it seems, good for them.
 
onQ123 said:
I'm not really concerned with Destiny looking & playing the same on both consoles I was talking about the person saying that there was little to slightly difference in power between the PS4 & Xbox One. that was flat out wrong and before MS updated the clock rate & freed up the 10% taken up by Kinect, PS4 was going to be damn near 2X more powerful than Xbox One for games. That's when all the lies about special sauce and so on was floating around to try to help the Xbox One look better & people was saying it was only a small difference they was lying flat out & some people are still holding on to them lies.
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The PS4 was never going to be anything close to 2x as powerful.... :/

There are definitely some who are unwilling to accept that the gap is as big as it is, but there's also some that are trying to make the gap bigger than it is. Both extremes are misinformed or being disingenuous because of personal bias.
 
Lukas Japonicus said:
Is that really a fact, though? I don't remember the gulf between the OG Xbox and the PS2, both in terms of visuals and performance, being as wide as it has been this gen.

I haven't done any actual technical research about that, though. I'm just talking in terms of the differences I see between games between games then and now.
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Its close I just did some looking and in terms of gpus the xbox original's gpu was almost a 66-80 percent stronger than the ps2's gpu. The xbox originally could handle 125 million polygons while the ps2 could only hander 75 million. The PS4's gpu is about 1.84Terraflops while the Xbox One gpu is aboutt 1.31 Terraflops which gives the PS4 gpu a 40 percent advantage in processing power. However in terms of cpu the xbox one has 8 cores at 1.75 Ghz and Sony has 8 coures 1.6 Ghz. In terms of ram the xbox one and ps4 has both 8 gigs. However the PS4 uses DDR5 which is much faster whie the xbox one to fight this included 32 MB of ESRAM (Really Really fast ram that has been bottlenecking the one cause no one really knows how to use it). Now in terms of ram available for games MS always gives 5 gigs while Sony gives 4.5 gigs. Sony does have a flexible 1 gig ram of available but aren't really clear on how you get access to it.
 
Inuhanyou said:
Good to seen that both platforms get a good experience. I don't expect Destiny to have been pushing the hardware for either of the platforms outside of the big environments considering you cant really interact with anything outside of the enemies.

I was actually surprised Box 1 was initially having issues getting to 1080p considering how Bungie said getting parity was the most important priority for them, even between generations.

But yeah, the reach engine is really scalable it seems, good for them.
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It was mostly dealing with how to actually use the ESRAM and the SKU upgrade.
 
Also; I suspect Bungie may have more development experience using MS tools and may be able to optimize on a MS based system more easily.

In 4-5 years there's a good chance both systems have almost all games running 1080p / 60 FPS; just because programmers will get way better at fully utilizing the system. Right now they're just using raw power. The PS3 was scads more powerful than the X360 (especially if you knew how to write for Cell) - didn't ever really make that much of a difference, because Cell was such a PITA to write for.

The best thing Sony and MS did was make their systems so similar in terms of components; it will allow optimization of the systems and code to go multiple times faster. You won't have to separate teams and write substantially different code. Also, I will be saddened if we don't get lots of PC ports; it is going to be soooooooo much easier to port a game over to PC.
 
People are really upset over this huh? LOL.

Obviously MS bringing over engineers to Bungie helped the develpment. If Sony did the same then they might of not been extremely identical like they are now.
 
Seanspeed said:
The PS4 was never going to be anything close to 2x as powerful.... :/

There are definitely some who are unwilling to accept that the gap is as big as it is, but there's also some that are trying to make the gap bigger than it is. Both extremes are misinformed or being disingenuous because of personal bias.
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I mean both the original xbox/ps2 and xbox360/ps3 had larger gaps than the current generation it terms of gpu power.
 
I have it on the PS4 and couldn't care less if they didn't go out of their way to push the PS4 to its max. The game looks great. My guess is Bungie had a target for being able to get the game to run on older consoles and the newer ones and they hit it. They then tuned it on each platform to hit their 1080p 30fps. Is it the greatest looking game? No, but it plays great and is a lot of fun.

The fact they were able to make it similar on both the One and the PS4 is great for everyone!
 
Seanspeed said:
The PS4 was never going to be anything close to 2x as powerful.... :/

There are definitely some who are unwilling to accept that the gap is as big as it is, but there's also some that are trying to make the gap bigger than it is. Both extremes are misinformed or being disingenuous because of personal bias.
Click to expand...



For games yes it was.

Xbox One 1.23 TFLOPS - 10% = 1.10 TFLOPS for games plus the bigger OS overhead vs PS4 with 1.84 TFLOPS


1.10 TFLOPS vs 1.84 TFLOPS is what it was looking like for games before the up clock & removal of Kinect standard 10% GPU overhead.
 
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