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[Durante]

Kickstarter is a great idea and excellent games came out from it, but it seems that the great games are the exception, and the cancelled projects / scams are the norm.

That's not true, at least if you go by projects which were actually funded successfully and apply some minimum due diligence as a backer. I've backed 30 projects or so, 5 of which delivered gloriously already, and a few more which delivered at the very least according to what was specified. Most of the rest are well on the way, and only 2 of them I'd qualify as not likely to be successful.

I mean, just this year we got (among lots of other worthy releases!) Shadowrun Returns, Divinity: Original Sin, Wasteland 2, and even the Pillars of Eternity beta. You could say that kickstarter already delivered on saving the CRPG.

The only other games I ever backed were Pillars of Eternity and the Planescape Torment sequel. My hopes ain't high for either of those.

What the fuck?

 

[More_Badass]

As i said at this point i would like to have a good visual representation of how the game will play and then depending on the budget and the devs i would look to back(at least for companies i know nothing about).

In my opinion, this campaign is perhaps the most recent one that does everything right
That Which Sleeps

1) Interesting concept/premise
It's a grand strategy where you play as an ancient Old One corrupting and manipulating the world in secret

2) A lot of development and progress pre-Kickstarter
The game is pretty much playable and complete with all major features and systems. Devs have an hour of footage showing them both making and playing the game, as well development blogs on IndieDB and TIGForum

3) A reasonable goal
Since the game is pretty complete, the goal of the Kickstarter was to raise funds to hire an artist, so they can revamp and improve the art and assets

4) Stretch goals
The Religion stretch goal had already been in the game, but the devs removed it since they didn't have the time or money to fine tune and fully implement the system. Procedual generation, same thing: already designed and prototyped but didn't have the time or money to keep in the game. The other goals are all built off of the already existing mechanics and system

5) Responsive and engaging developer
The best thing about this campaign. No other campaign I've backed has had such a communicative developer. Every question is answered with such detailed responses, exactly how the game works, down to the numbers and percentages. While most devs can only say, "This is what we want to do", these devs are able to describe every system, every feature and mechanic, in definite terms, since the game already exists rather than being some quick vertical slice made for a Kickstarter campaign

For example, part of dev's response on the world structure and AI

As for taking no actions - that is a KEY element of the world, that it behaves on its own. In The North Burns, for instance, their is historical enmity between the colonizing nations of the East and the former owners of the continent that the scenario takes place on. The Kingdom of Cylaria longs to reclaim the farmlands of Arden, New Caledon wishes to retake its position as the dominant Trade Power, and The Golden Republic seeks to keep an equilibrium so it can maintain its own status. If you skip turns you will most often see a variety of low intensity skirmishes (a fight over a single POI with limited engagement) punctuated by more vigorous engagements. Rarely will you see a "Total War" without your pushing a nation into it, Total War here being defined as the full mobilization of a nation to eradicate another.

The AI is very aggressive with trying to achieve its objectives, weighed only against any awareness it may have of a greater evil and the advise of its advisers (Barons for a feudal nation, council members for a republic etc). A King who seeks glory will override his own desire for glory if it is practical (depending on his capacity for reason), but each time he does his desire builds up (a simple additive algorithm) and if he continues to deny it he may suffer drops in his willpower or he may override his advisers and better instincts to seek a glorious action. This can lead to sometimes explosive situations if multiple rulers of powerful nations reach their breaking point at the same time.

 

[Pyroclastic]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

'indie standards'

man, people are the worst.

 

[BPoole]

There's definitely the element of a handful of scammy-looking projects making people unsure about the plethora of worthwhile projects. But if you think about it, people should be smarter than that, we're all adults and as with every purchase, they should be able to analyse the risks beforehand and assume responsibility for themselves.


The potential upsides of a platform like Kickstarter thriving in this industry are so huge, that a few bad apples shouldn't dissuade people from shying away from the projects worth supporting. It's hurtful generalisation - I can understand the saltiness from some of the supporters in here that see a service that could be so significant badmouthed and put down by a small, loud minority with a very destructive mindset.

I just have a different mindset when I approach a Kickstarter. When I see a game that interests me, and then I see a "Release: Q3 2016" that juts puts me off of it. I have no idea what I'll be doing then. I may not even be playing games that much anymore. The way I see it, a good game is going to get funded one way or another. I haven't seen any games that just looks phenomenal get snubbed and end up not making it.

I do understand that if everyone had the same mindset as me, nothing would ever get funded, but between the potential scams for games or the potential for a game to come out and just not be as good as I thought it would be (such as Dead State, even though that isn't full out yet, I was hoping for more).

 

[maltrain]

I backed a lot of games last year... but some cancellations dissapointed me and now I'm more cautious.

I think developers have the obligation of deliver what they promise.

Not a legal obligation, I know they haven't any... BUT they should have.

For me, it's a scam when you fund a project and you cancel it without giving the money back.

Kickstarter IS, you like it or not, a "pre order" kind of thing. And I'm OK with this, in fact, that is how it SHOULD legally be.

My son is studying a videogames career at the university and I hope he can go to Kickstarter for funding his first projects as an independent developer... and I'll be the first pushing him for delivering if he fund his game.

How can Kickstarter raise the level of supporters?

First, involving in the process AFTER a game is funded and demanding that the project completes in a proper time.

Second, making a reputation system where you can see, easily, the history of the developer or publisher in the site (and after that).

 

[FoneBone]

I will never understand the casual animosity toward Kickstarter on this forum by so many.

It is really, really annoying that we can't have a single thread without someone going "KICKSTARTER IS A SCAM LOLZ".

 

[CecilRousso]

I think Double Fine has definitely hurt confidence in Kickstarter and similar forms of funding. Broken Age still isn't finished and it's currently 2 years past its due date. And there are a lot of Steam users who are really mad about Spacebase DF-9 - it's the first game I've seen on Steam where over half the reviews are negative.

Well, Spacebase has nothing to do with Kickstarter. Crowdfunding? Maybe, that depends how you want to use that definition.

With Broken Age, yes, there are a lot of negativity. Double Fine should have communicated a lot of things better. That has been their main problem.

But the delays with Broken Age is something people need to learn to deal with, since delays is something that could hit any project, and that they used extra money is not that strange either. Double Fine have suffered because they were so upfront with it. If you look at a game like Wasteland 2, that people use an example of a succesful kickstarter, that is also a project that needed A LOT of extra money, some raised through early access, and it was heavily delayed, like Broken Age.

It surely hasn't been a smooth sailing for the project, but since they have through the whole time actually shown progress, it's really unfair to compare it with complete clusterfucks like Yogventures.

 

[Kouriozan]

Never backed any project, Early Access failures already got me wary of those things.

 

[Dolor]

I backed two projects. Defense Grid 2 has been a stunning success. Torment: ToN looks to be coming along nicely.

But kickstarter has produced a number of awesome games already - Divinity: OS and Wasteland 2 to name but a few.

At this point though, I really don't know why you wouldn't do Early Access instead unless you have almost no money to start with.

Early Access isn't just an alternative funding method, but a way to safely QA and iterate on the product to make the best final game possible. This has been stated by numerous devs including high profile Kickstarted ones as well.

 

[More_Badass]

It is really, really annoying that we can't have a single thread without someone going "KICKSTARTER IS A SCAM LOLZ".

I maintain the 2014 Kickstarter thread and make a lot of threads for campaigns, and I've noticed that those kinds of posts tend to only pop up in the threads focused on the negative aspects of Kickstarter, rarely (if ever) in the threads about the campaigns themselves.

 

[domlolz]

I only ever backed Mighty No. 9 and Amplitude. Guess I'm part of the problem...

i've not backed anything even if interested in them, if they are good i will buy them when they are released or on sale

 

[SuperDowns]

I haven't seen a game that really makes me want to go out and back.

For me, kickstarter exists for genres that are not lucrative enough for major publishers to back, so we the fans back them. For instance, I have backed Mighty No. 9, Broken Age and Shadowrun Returns.

 

[OnionPowder]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

lmao wtf.

 

[Brerlappin]

Only KS i ever backed was Titanic Honor and Glory. Now i see theyre launching a new KS in February to try and get more cash. I dont know whether to be glad they theyre aiming for an even bigger project or be pissed they couldnt stick to their original vision and that i will, in all likelihood, lose my investment after their next KS fails and the project flops.

 

[IDKAboutThat]

The fad is ending and Kickstarter's true life as a niche market can begin.

 

[FoneBone]

The fact that something as rad as Flagship is struggling to hit it's incredibly modest goal is all the evidence one needs to see that the Kickstarter fad is done.

I see this has already been pointed out, but it's a terrible example. The concept is super-cool, to be sure, but the devs are inexperienced, and their "incredibly modest goal" relative to the game's ambition strikes me as a recipe for disaster.

 

[inm8num2]

Seems like it all boils down to people pledging as much as they're comfortable with doing, and exercising more restraint while they wait for supported projects to finish and deliver.

Plus the crowdfunding market is more crowded, and it's harder to get the necessary exposure amidst a sea of competing projects.

 

[Cmagus]

I think people are being more cautious when it comes to kickstarters. I think that when the kickstarter scene took off people were throwing money at anything and everything and a lot of people got burned.

I've donated to a few and for the most part I've been very happy with the projects I've backed. For me after I got burned the first time I really stepped back and set some higher requirements for myself when looking at kickstarters.

-Do the authors regularly update and stay in contact?
-Do the developers have a nice portion of the game to show?
-Do they have experience and do they come off as professional?
-Are they showing any new stuff over the course of the kickstarter showing progress?

I usually won't donate till the remaining few days as I like to make sure those type of questions above are answered for me.

I backed Skullgirls because I'm a huge fan of the artists on the project and I know they are extremely hard working team with plenty of experience, they did live streams, took backer feedback and engaged with the community and they delivered and still are delivering everything they promised.

I also backed another gaffer project Olympia Rising as they came off professional about their project, provided a nice little gameplay demo, regularly stay in contact and ask backers for feedback and provided enough information their their project plans making their project vision very clear so I have full confidence in them.

I really hate when someone pitches a kickstarter with like a piece of concept art or 2-3 sprites idling it's like is that it?

You have your kickstarter up for a month, over that month have they shown any progress or new stuff?, Have they been working on stuff and making progress?

I also hate when funding isn't looking good and they end the kickstarter early because all that says is you have zero confidence in your product and can't even see the kickstarter through till the end.

Kickstarters may have slowed down a bit but at least a lot less garbage and clear scams have been weeded out. It's still a great platform for those serious about putting out a project.

 

[Arulan]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

What is this? Please enlighten us with your "good good" games.

The only other games I ever backed were Pillars of Eternity and the Planescape Torment sequel. My hopes ain't high for either of those.

What? Pillars of Eternity is still scheduled to come out late this year and looks great. Torment: Tides of Numenera shows no signs of problems and Wasteland 2 from what I've played so far is great.

Never backed any project, Early Access failures already got me wary of those things.

Early Access is inherently different though, at least when talking about the games which are trying to get funded through Early Access sales. While on Kickstarter you know that when they've reached a target amount it'll at least live up to what they promised. Of course failures can happen but they're in the small minority, but some delays are common. On the other hand, Early Access doesn't promise you anything because they don't know if they'll receive enough funds through sales to continue development or add in all the features they'd like to. It is for that reason that I generally only buy Early Access titles if I feel they're worth the asking cost at that given moment. And there have been quite a few that despite not being finished I feel they're already worth the price I paid. Of course, as I stated earlier this is about Early Access titles that are trying to get funded through sales.

 

[joecanada]

It is really, really annoying that we can't have a single thread without someone going "KICKSTARTER IS A SCAM LOLZ".

Well I can see where you are coming from and I certainly don't care what people choose to do with their money, but the title of the thread is "kickstarter funding in decline"
soooooo.... I'm just going to say that I would never give money to kickstarter... if you have extra money kicking around, buy shares in a company or something.... most of these companies need money evidently and you are just giving them money for "nothing" (although I do see some of the promised items having value).... be a real backer of a company. It doesn't take too much.
Although if you have just thrown ten bucks at a couple games then meh, it's all good. But if that's the case, know what it is and don't complain when nothing happens.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

I'm still willing to donate. I understand the risk. You just have to be picky and not throw money at everything like people did last year.

I wish you could use kickstarter straight from the PS4 dashboard.

 

[SFenton]

I maintain the 2014 Kickstarter thread and make a lot of threads for campaigns, and I've noticed that those kinds of posts tend to only pop up in the threads focused on the negative aspects of Kickstarter, rarely (if ever) in the threads about the campaigns themselves.

I think a lot showed up in the Amplitude thread, but more to baselessly complain about "but why aren't they using their [actually really non-existant] Rock Band fortune?".

 

[Burt]

I wanted to respond to clarify the purpose of the second tab--I made this list; it's true that I list successes but then claim "most fail". I came to this conclusion by looking at the updates for a variety of low-pledge KSes and based on my own experience backing lower-end titles. What I've typically found is that very low value KSes do not appear to provide deliverables or reasonable updates; for example, check the successfully funded sub-$1000 KS projects and look at the updates. Typically you will find that they either do not update, update but don't really get anywhere, etc. Now I don't necessarily think this is a problem because I think at that level there are a lot of friends and family donations. Like when a kid starts a "Help me buy a minecraft server" KS and gets 2 $100 donations, it's hard to imagine those people want accountability.

I don't mention this to shit on small devs, I think you can tell I'm sympathetic, but my purpose in assembling the list was the following:
- First, evaluate the success rate of high profile (>75k) kickstarters: Results: Most >75k kickstarters are successful or on track to be successful. Side note: Most of them miss their release targets, so don't back if you need to get the game delivered on time.
- Second, note that there were a number of lower profile kickstarters which led to great games
- Third, incidentally observe that lower profile kickstarters fail or fail to maintain adequate communication on a much more frequent basis and that if the aggregate fundraising amount can't afford to employ the people full time, your ability to get progress and accountability will be comparatively limited. There was no citation because it was an off-the-cuff observation based on personal experience and a brief investigation into this stuff while in the course of trying to make the points that I felt were more important to make. I'm open to challenge if someone would like to put in a more thorough assessment of low-profile KSes, but personally assembling the >75k part was already an enormous amount of wasted time for something I was basically doing out of idle personal interest.

(I plan on continuing to update the >75k list pretty frequently)

Ah, well there we go. You're probably correct, because my problem is that I subconsciously block out most Kickstarters with ~$5k goals. Between the time and cost of running a Kickstarter, there's hardly enough money left to justify the campaign, let alone complete a game. There have been a few (surprisingly solid) exceptions like Spud's Quest/The Escapists, KRZ, and Rex Rocket, but overall I do find it hard to take campaigns with goals that low very seriously. The $20-75k range does seem to have a decent success rate though, albeit likely not as high as $75k plus.

Thanks for putting that list together though, it's definitely been handy in showing some numbers to non-believers. Thought you had just quoted it, not assembled it yourself.

Also, you should totally play Rex Rocket/add it to that list. Amazing little Mega Man-esque that deserves to be mentioned despite only making $12k.

 

[Kagoshima_Luke]

I can dream.

 

[Messofanego]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

I don't know what indie standards means. Good game is also good good game.

 

[Mudcrab]

We got Perfect Stride and Shadowrun Returns out of it. Everything else just can't compete.

Son, let me tell you about Wasteland 2.

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

This quote is a perfect example of why we need kickstarter. Something like Pillars of Eternity will never have the huge marketing budget needed to be considered a "good good game"

 

[CecilRousso]

The fad is ending and Kickstarter's true life as a niche market can begin.

Would be happy with that, when the niche market is this: http://store.steampowered.com/tag/en/Kickstarter/#p=0&tab=TopSellers

 

[AkelisRain]

First game I Kickstarter doesn't seem like it will meet its goal. Blossom tales...

 

[Messofanego]

I've largely had a sour taste in my mouth after a spurt of backing projects.

Double Fine's shady behavior, Star Citizen being vaporware, a couple of straight up "take the money and run" situations, and then delays delays delays.

I'd just rather pay the extra $15 bucks when the game comes out.

If it gets good reviews.

If you can play the game right now, it can't be vaporware.

 

[Mooreberg]

The high profile implosions probably have not helped. If you are a strictly a consumer and not a lifelong fan of a particular studio, waiting for something to come out so you can evaluate it or the see the reactions to it before spending money makes sense.

 

[TrebuchetGames]

I backed 9 projects in all on Kickstarter, but since then (and this is over 1 year ago), I haven't actually gone back. Strangely enough nearly everything i backed was late, and it wasn't just 3 or 6 months, most were longer :|

I am slightly depressed about KS seemingly being a worse place for gaming projects, am hoping to launch a KS early next year and this would suggest that it's going to be a hard sell

 

[Baron_Calamity]

Uber Entertainment just put up a new kickstarter for a game called Human Resources.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=132615968

I'm probably going to back it but they are asking for 1.4 million. I'm not confident they can make their goal.

 

[Stumpokapow]

Also, you should totally play Rex Rocket/add it to that list. Amazing little Mega Man-esque that deserves to be mentioned despite only making $12k.

I added it. I suspect when I saw it on KS it hadn't yet been released on Steam, and I missed it when I did a follow-up pass recently. It looks cool, though, added it to my Steam wishlist.

 

[More_Badass]

Uber Entertainment just put up a new kickstarter for a game called Human Resources.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=132615968

I'm probably going to back it but they are asking for 1.4 million. I'm not confident they can make their goal.

This is the kind of campaign that I'm wary of backing. Sure the devs have pedigree. But I doubt that trailer is gameplay (I could be wrong). One of my guidelines is to only back campaigns that show gameplay. I do hope it succeeds, because the concept sounds awesome

I added it. I suspect when I saw it on KS it hadn't yet been released on Steam, and I missed it when I did a follow-up pass recently. It looks cool, though, added it to my Steam wishlist.

I recommend it as well. A challenging mix of precision platforming, fast paced puzzles, and arcade action. A lot of charm and great lighting and effects

 

[Natureboy99]

Kickstarter will continue to work,but not broadly. A game like Star Citizen could never work without kickstarter, since the number of people interested is relatively low. However, if that low number is willing to shell out hundreds or thousands to get the game, boom theres your budget. If that number was only paying $60 each there wouldn't be enough return.

In other words, kickstarter is similar to mobile apps that make so much money. A few "whales" support the whole thing.

Once the whales are happy, yeah kickstarter will lose funding. I think its here to stay, but nothing will beat Star Citizen I think.

 

[Messofanego]

This is the kind of campaign that I'm wary of backing. Sure the devs have pedigree. But I doubt that trailer is gameplay (I could be wrong). One of my guidelines is to only back campaigns that show gameplay. I do hope it succeeds, because the concept sounds awesome

Planetary Annihilation also had a concept video kind of pitch, but I didn't play it so don't know whether it matched the original. Do like the art style if it ends up looking like that, but probably won't have as fluid animation.

 

[mnannola]

Planetary Annihilation also had a concept video kind of pitch, but I didn't play it so don't know whether it matched the original. Do like the art style if it ends up looking like that, but probably won't have as fluid animation.

I have PA, the gameplay actually looks very close to the original pitch video. Check out some videos from the release version, graphics are pretty rad! The problem currently with PA is that they promised some features(DRM Free, Save Games) that are not yet in the released version.

I wouldn't be wary that Uber could make the gameplay work just like in the video. They have some talented staff and already have the engine built. What I would be wary about is them being able to deliver everything they are promising.

 

[Zaku]

I backed Shovel Knight, Mighty No. 9, and a few others and they all look like they're going to turn out well... But for the most part, I'm concerned with the number of high-profile outright or partial failures and others which aren't so high-profile, but still notable.

Broken Age is yet more proof Shafer can't manage a budget to save his life, and I'm not touching anything they put out for a while because of it. I feel kind of burned over backing and still only having half a game in my hands.

For the most part these days I'm not backing a title unless I see footage or better yet, a demo which shows the title is already far enough along to be in a playable state. Anything else feels like too much of a risk.

 

[charlequin]

That's coming out this weekend?

Nope, just preview build for backers.

Shouldn't Broken Age be on this list of flops as well?

...no? Problems with their handling of the situation aside, there is a near-zero chance that the game isn't completed.

I don't think thats fair. You have an overly ambitious game, being developed by two first time indie developers, for VR on a micro budget. The chance of complete failure seems really high.

And the "get a copy of the game" tier is pretty expensive.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

.... what?

Way to move the goalpost into the bushes behind a few trees.

 

[KingJ2002]

dev cycles could also have something to do with the "decline".

Backers could be waiting to see certain projects finished prior to supporting any other titles.

I backed Amplitude HD and haven't backed anything since. I don't plan to either until the game is released and I see for myself if the game was worth it... or in a sense... if Kickstarter is worth it.

 

[ebullientprism]

Notch no longer has the excuse to not fund Psychonauts 2.

Anyone with half a brain would stay the fuck away from investing serious cash into DF.

 

[krizzx]

Some of the blame lies with the companies that screwed people over like the guys who made Dreamfall. They took money to develop for one platform then used it to develop for one that their supports didn't pay for. Then you have instances like the abuse of people on steam who paid for games that the devs stopped support before they were finished, or cases like Project C.A.R.S. which relates to the first issue.

Crowd funded games have gotten a bad reputation from them.

 

[wrowa]

Some of the blame lies with the companies that screwed people over like the guys who made Dreamfall. They took money to develop for one platform then used it to develop for one that their supports didn't pay for.

Red Thread Games has never promised a Wii U version during the Kickstarter period. I'm not even sure if they mentioned the console when the Kickstarter was still running.

 

[Moon_frogger]

It was inevitable. we've already reached the point of saturation and bigger-name studios with well-known devs only makes it more difficult for no-names to get the support they need

This is it. This is exactly what is happening, not all these supposed 'scams' people keep going on about. There are just too many people trying to make a videogame these days.

 

[Corronchilejano]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

The ones I've played that are excellent:
Faster Than Light
Giana Sisters: Twisted Dreams
ShadowRun 2
Wasteland 2

Faster than light is my all time favorite, but Wasteland 2 is the one that has my attention right now.

 

[Ithil]

Any kick started game that had actually turn out good? And I don't mean good by indie standards, I mean good good.

How about those AAA standards, eh?

 

[Messofanego]

I have PA, the gameplay actually looks very close to the original pitch video. Check out some videos from the release version, graphics are pretty rad! The problem currently with PA is that they promised some features(DRM Free, Save Games) that are not yet in the released version.

I wouldn't be wary that Uber could make the gameplay work just like in the video. They have some talented staff and already have the engine built. What I would be wary about is them being able to deliver everything they are promising.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Almighty]

Makes sense I don't think I have backed a game all year long. Mostly because there haven't been any games that were brought to my attention that looked interesting to me and I was waiting for the games I did back to come out. Now that some of them have come out and were fantastic I would be down to backing more games(mostly RPGs) that looked interesting. Though my standards for what projects I will back have gone up since I used to back a project just on the devs yelling "We are making an old school RPG".

 

[Decado]

We'll see how it goes when some of the bigger successes try and fund their follow-ups. Far too early to get worried.