Staten Island Grand Jury Does Not Indict in Eric Garner Case

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Ziltoidia 9 said:
Are those officers still on the NYPD? If so, have they had additional training on how to freaking handle situations?

Eric Gardner was upset, but he wasn't violent towards the cops.
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This. Worse case scenario, Gardner could have got away. He wasn't a violent offender, there was no need to be overzealous in their attempts to apprehend him.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
When we as a society are more worried about what's fair for the Eric Garner's and less worried about what's fair for the police officers I think we'll be in a better place.
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If you held officers to a higher standard then I think they'd be all sorts of problems relative to recruitment and unions etc... I just don't think it would be workable however good the sentiment is.
 
The good cops who don't speak up, don't at the very least publicly distance themselves from their "bad" peers and condemn their actions, are not good cops.
 
A Human Becoming said:
Assuming your pretense is true, wouldn't an officer killing a civilian using a banned move be murder?
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Murder would be hard to prove unless they can show the officer intended to kill Garner. Intent is really hard to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A second-degree would be easier to prove but more than likely manslaughter at the minimum.
 
arts&crafts said:
It happens in Toronto too. Last year there was that mentally handicapped guy alone on a bus surrounded by police who was killed.
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If you mean the one in which the cop absolutely unloaded on the guy (14 shots I think?), he's actually standing trial for murder.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Then where are all these good cops clearly speaking out that this was an illegal chokehold and it was murder? Instead of remaining silent or spinning it to support their dude?
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Probably shutting up and trying to keep their jobs
 
Dali said:
I don't know who to be angrier at:the piece of shit murderers or the worthless grand juries. Seriously how can you watch that video and not at the very least think to yourself "this needs to go to trail."
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Don't forget the prosecutor who has to tell the grand jury how to consider the evidence he/she is presenting.
 
Dali said:
I don't know who to be angrier at:the piece of shit murderers or the worthless grand juries. Seriously how can you watch that video and not at the very least think to yourself "this needs to go to trail."
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The prosecutors are getting the grand juries to think they are actual juries or something, and basically trying the case behind closed doors. They're just changing the words "not guilty" to "do not indict."
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Then where are all these good cops clearly speaking out that this was an illegal chokehold and it was murder? Instead of remaining silent or spinning it to support their dude?
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Most people only look out for themselves. They want to keep their job, so they don't speak out. This makes them complicit, no doubt.

Even good cops should be criticized in certain cases where they don't speak out (if they know something was wrong, or if they in general see shit that is wrong in their line of work). Although as has been said before, the whole thing is fucked. Departments and unions make it pretty hard for cops to come forward. Believe it or not, cops all the time speak out (not to the media), but try to speak out against practices in the department, and get shut down or get run out.

That said, if you want to argue they should be speaking to the media (and be out of their job), that is a valid criticism. I still think this is an issue that society on a whole should be speaking out against too though. Where all the "good people" that aren't outraged? Why is it that only blacks and a handful of people are getting angry. Why is the majority of society sitting idly by, and okay with this? Well, probably because it doesn't effect them.

So that's why they have no room to complain about riots and violence when they wouldn't do a damn thing about it.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Then where are all these good cops clearly speaking out that this was an illegal chokehold and it was murder? Instead of remaining silent or spinning it to support their dude?
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They are powerless. Village Voice did an expose on NYPD cops that tried pushing back against the system and lost, hard.
 
Foxy Fox 39 said:
Intentions don't mean much when you're a power hungry, callous individual with no regard for human life.

- He used an illegal chokehold on the guy

- The guy kept saying he couldn't breath

- There is video of an officer smiling while Eric Lays face down

- When asked why they aren't doing CPR he says he's breathing when he's clearly dead.
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It was a horrible video and I agree that it looks like the office used a chokehold on the guy.
The other office nearly standing on his head probably didn't help either.
 
2819155742_b3fc53224d_m.jpg



Not to derail, but where do they find these pundits on CNN? The cop defense force is astounding.
 
Hari Seldon said:
I'd like to see riots but I'm pretty sure the NYPD is bigger than most countries standing armies so I dunno how well it would go.
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40,000
An additional 700 MTA police
And 2,200 port authority police
And another 1,000 bridge and tunnel police


If there would any good cops, theyd call in sick tonight. But no, theyre all hungry for overtime and the chance to bash the heads of their fellow residents.
 
Foxy Fox 39 said:
This post is so telling.
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Telling like most of my posts on this subject that I think your country is too violent, yes. Both in police force and in violent crime by citizens. Was a sort of joke post commenting on that opinion. No I don't think Angelus or whoever else suggesting they'd move to Canada in this thread are actually violent.

But you'd rather think I hate immigrants or whatever narrative you'd like.
 
cyberheater said:
If you held officers to a higher standard then I think they'd be all sorts of problems relative to recruitment and unions etc... I just don't think it would be workable however good the sentiment is.
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There already is a problem with recruitment and unions. Good cops that violate the Blue Wall get railroaded out and unions tend to back the cops that kill unarmed people with no shame.

A Human Becoming said:
I like to hate on cops, but this is akin to Fox News blaming Muslims for not speaking up against terrorists.
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I don't like to hate on cops. We need cops. And I personally haven't had trouble with them. But last I checked cops aren't a religion or ethnicity. They're men and women that have been empowered to justly enforce the laws. So I'm sorry if I'm asking a fair bit more of them.
 
Azula said:
Most people only look out for themselves. They want to keep their job, so they don't speak out. This makes them complicit, no doubt.

Even good cops should be criticized in certain cases where they don't speak out. Although as has been said before, the whole thing is fucked. Departments and unions make it pretty hard for cops to come forward. Believe it or not, cops all the time speak out (not to the media), but try to get speak out against things in the department, and get shut down.

That said, if you want to argue they should be speaking to the media (and be out of their job), that is a valid criticism.
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Seriously

Do you really think people want to alienate the guy that's supposed to make sure that they don't get shot in the back on top of all of the above?

This isn't a simple "they should be outraged too!" shit
 
Mammoth Jones said:
Then where are all these good cops clearly speaking out that this was an illegal chokehold and it was murder? Instead of remaining silent or spinning it to support their dude?
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Because they like having jobs. Not trying to be an ass, but with how powerful the police unions are, they would be lucky to get a security guard job if they spoke out.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
There already is a problem with recruitment and unions. Good cops that violate the Blue Wall get railroaded out and unions tend to back the cops that kill unarmed people with no shame.
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Yeah this. Not only are cops run out of the department, it encourages a lot of them just to keep quiet as they know their criticisms won't get heard, and they will be out of a job (not excusing this, if you want to argue they are wrong for not speaking out, I wouldn't argue with that).
 
Just comical now. Off the top of of my head:

Michael Brown in Ferguson
The Cos-play dude with the sword
7 year old shot while sleeping on the couch
And now Eric Garner.

Which out folks it's open season on black people.

Fucking terrible. RIP.
 
Mammoth Jones said:
There already is a problem with recruitment and unions. Good cops that violate the Blue Wall get railroaded out and unions tend to back the cops that kill unarmed people with no shame.
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Sounds completely fucked. :(
 
commedieu said:
agreed, its like people asking why black people burn their own community down.



Good news for you, they said they didn't use a choke-hold in the first place.
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I'm not defending the police at all. Trust me, I'm on the side of everyone else here, and I'm pretty fucking outraged over the whole mess. I actually want people to see that extra layer of how fucked up this is, that the police wouldn't even go as far as to make it illegal, believing that classifying it as against their rules was enough to stop it being used.
 
dskillzhtown said:
Because they like having jobs. Not trying to be an ass, but with how powerful the police unions are, they would be lucky to get a security guard job if they spoke out.
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DY_nasty said:
Seriously

Do you really think people want to alienate the guy that's supposed to make sure that they don't get shot in the back on top of all of the above?

This isn't a simple "they should be outraged too!" shit
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Mammoth Jones said:
...
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So the answer is that Good Police are terrified by the police corruption Mammoth, but nope, no problems there. Just fyi.

As a black man knowing that many non-blacks are fine with this, makes me even more terrified to leave my apt.
 
Anyone watching CNN? Who is that Heavy-Set Black woman because she is spewing the dumbest shit I have heard in a while.
 
Exile20 said:
Over cigs. What the hell?!?!?!?!?!
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Just to clarify in case It wasn't clear: I'm saying it is unfathomable that someone would support the actions of the police from this incident(murder).

It's so crazy that capturing this on video and being so unequivocally wrong no matter what the law says still isn't enough to make the legal system indict an officer at this juncture.
 
wildfire said:
They are powerless. Village Voice did an expose on NYPD cops that tried pushing back against the system and lost, hard.
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This American Life did as well. If you are a good cop you will lose your job, get harassed into silence, or worse.

This American Life said:
For 17 months, New York police officer Adrian Schoolcraft recorded himself and his fellow officers on the job, including their supervisors ordering them to do all sorts of things that police aren't supposed to do. For example, downgrading real crimes into lesser ones, so they wouldn't show up in the crime statistics and make their precinct look bad. Adrian's story first appeared as a five part series in the Village Voice, written by Graham Rayman. (41 minutes)criminal justice • jobs/employment • police
Ira Glass
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http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=414&act=2
 
DY_nasty said:
Seriously

Do you really think people want to alienate the guy that's supposed to make sure that they don't get shot in the back on top of all of the above?

This isn't a simple "they should be outraged too!" shit
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I'm really disturbed by people in general being okay with this though. Just the whole, apathy and doing nothing about it, is insane. All of this is playing out again and again across the US. And it just seems like, the majority of people that think of themselves as "good people"...are just accepting this.
 
Angelus Errare said:
I'm seriously aiming to move to Canada in 2015. Hell I'll even renounce my citizenship if need be.
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Canada isnt some magical place you guys. Lots of Americans move here and marry across the border. Its probably better as a black person, but you should see the hate that Aboriginals get. A lot of the racism in Canada is just hidden and not as heated because there's less racial history. But Canadians and Americans share a lot of cultural hi-jinks and interests. Don't assume that its paradise.
 
Use of force can ONLY be used when there is immediate threat to police or civilians, this guy was no threat even accidently. He was outnumbered and on the ground. Can someone enlighten me, does a grand jury have to be unanimous?
 
If I was a cop, this would embolden me to do whatever the fuck I wanted to and get away with it.

Terrifying prescedent.

#murdernowgetacquitedlater
 
Azula said:
Cops are trained to deal with this. He used a technique that is banned. So while yeah, he shouldn't have resisted arrest, the bigger issue is not him resisting arrest, but a cop using a technique that he shouldn't have. And continuing to use it after the guy stopped resisting.

Saying if he didn't resist, then he wouldn't be dead...is totally victim blaming. Because what should have had happened is, if he resisted he should have been detained and not killed by a banned technique. Him resisting never should have led to this.
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You talk like detaining a resisting individual is easy.

I agree with most of what you are saying btw.
 
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