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[speculawyer]

Seems pretty homophobic to me.

Anything to back your statement up?

His lifetime of working with gay people, not making anti-gay statements, a long history of liberal politics, and even being the first person to play a recurring gay character on a national television show.

Right, he just doesn't want it to become an everyday thing, what's so hard to understand about that.

That statement can just be viewed as trying to get the right mix of things.


I'm sure he'll clarify this (if he hasn't done so already).

Edit: Looked at his twitter and nothing this topic. However, his most recent tweet was expressing sadness of about an openly gay person that recently died.

Billy Crystal ‏@BillyCrystal Jan 10
So sad to hear of the loss of @Taylor_Negron. Brilliantly funny comedian
actor and wonderful painter. #RestInPeace

People just have such knee-jerk reactions to things that they often bash before considering the full context of things. :-/

 

[Sai-kun]

Not sure how old you are, but I'm old enough to have seen Soap in its original run. Crystal portrayed the gay man as a regular person, i.e., not stereotypically gay. At the time it was quite refreshing. Not saying that makes him not homophobic, but it's a point in his favor at least.

You know that men who are stereotypically gay are also 'regular' people right? God what a shitty thing to say.

And what a stupid comment from Billy. Fuck off with that.

 

[Loke13]

Or perhaps you're reading it "Gays on TV shouldn't be an everyday kind of thing" and they're reading it "stop shoving characters who are defined by being gay in our faces. It's becoming an everyday kind of thing."

I don't know who is correct in their interpretation.

Right because that defintely translates to this:

Crystal’s exact issues with the currently roster of gay characters appearing on network television weren’t made clear, but the actor intimated that the recent uptick of queer intimacy in shows like 'How To Get Away With Murder' were a bit too much for him.

 

[Mumei]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.”

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

 

[MormaPope]

Best gay TV characters: David and Keith from Six Feet Under.

 

[Patapwn]

Did he communicate this via showtune?

 

[hey_it's_that_dog]

I can't tell what he's trying to say for sure, so I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt, but it really reads like he doesn't want gayness to become more common on television. For what reason, I do not know.

 

[stupei]

Do the gay characters in the example he gives (How to Get Away with Murder) really have that as their only defining characteristic, or is that all that people can see?

He appears to refuse to name any shows directly, from his statement. The article references How to Get Away with Murder outside of quotes, so presumably he didn't name drop it himself.

To be honest, I doubt he would watch a show that has implied rimming between dudes.

But no, being gay is far from the defining characteristics of the gay characters on the show.

 

[lednerg]

You should source the original article instead of that blog, which omitted a lot of what he said.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/billy-crystal-says-gay-scenes-tv-pushing-003926796.html

 

[Jag]

I don't disagree. I am also totally for gay rights. I think they should get married, have kids, etc. However, I don't want to see 2 guys going at it on TV. To me it's gross. Is that homophobic?

 

[LQX]

I hope this doesn't sound off but I think there is trend of sorts with cable shows to make gay characters very promiscuous so they can can almost have a sex scene every episode. I notice this with Shameless on Showtime.

 

[ivysaur12]

How are people reading "sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste" combined with "to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing" and assuming that means "don't make them flamboyant" or "they should have story lines that don't revolve about being gay"?

He doesn't say that. Anywhere in his statement.

That's sort of what I got for it as well -- his intention seemed fairly clear.

 

[Calamari41]

Well, there was nothing wrong with Jack. He's flamboyant? Sure. Flamboyant gay people exist. And in the context of the show, it's not like Jack was only queer person on Will & Grace.

I agree, but Jack was as you implied balanced by the other gay characters. What Crystal is saying, I think, is that we're getting the point where the networks all want their shows to have a gay guy in them so they throw in a Jack and leave it at that. Of course I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted his statement.

 

[The Adder]

Where is the line drawn between something being tastefully gay and something being forced down people's throats? Did the show Six Feet Under shove gayness down our throats when there were intimate moments between two gay characters?

The character(s) who is (are) gay vs The Gay Character(s).

Same place I draw any characterization line.

 

[nicoga3000]

I think he's saying that it is more natural if your show has a gay character to make them like Will rather than to make them like Jack (to use Will and Grace as an example...)

Just have the character be gay, not "hey look at this gay character, our show has a gay character and this flamboyant caricature guy is the gay one. Look at him, he's gay!"

Yeah, my interpretation of his statement is that shows need to try and avoid making gay men out to always be hyper-flamboyant, as that's not the only kind of gay male out there.

 

[Soulscribe]

Honestly if you had 0 problems with gay characters or plotlines in your shows then you wouldn't really notice any small uptick in content, at the least wouldn't be so bothered that you'd talk about it.

Too bad, I'm a fan of Billy. Just not an every day kind of thing.

 

[Hours Left]

I think, and this is just a guess, it's more of "let's make gay characters just because" while the topic is ho!t instead of being truly relevant. It's hard to put into words because someone is always going to read it wrong.

A few years ago there was a marriage between same sex couple on TV during the Superbowl half time. I was like why? Why do I need to see a wedding, gay or straight, during the halftime? Sometimes things can seem forced onto the public and most of us do not care, just live your life.

Does that make sense?

No, it doesn't.

Heterosexual expressions of love/lust are literally everywhere. They are ingrained in nearly every aspect of media. Why does a sudden uptick in gay characters/content on TV suddenly equate to "too much" or "shoving it in our face".

I don't disagree. I am also totally for gay rights. I think they should get married, have kids, etc. However, I don't want to see 2 guys going at it on TV. To me it's gross. Is that homophobic?

Yes, it is.

A lot of people in the topic are not being genuine in their perspective of the reality of straight content on television as opposed to gay representation.

 

[ivysaur12]

I don't disagree. I am also totally for gay rights. I think they should get married, have kids, etc. However, I don't want to see 2 guys going at it on TV. To me it's gross. Is that homophobic?

Kind of, sure. No one bats and eye when there's a straight sex scene on television.

 

[daviyoung]

Because no one writes heterosexual characters as being defined by the fact that they are straight.

of course they do, just look at every friend-of-the-main-characters in any US sitcom, but they are also defined as being regular, everyday people

 

[Deleted member 47027]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.”

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

I really just felt like giving him the benefit of the doubt considering all he's done to help pro-gay groups and bringing a sort of "respectability" to the hammy stereotype that was prevalent (and still kind of is.) When you lay it out like that, I don't know why I gave him the benefit of the doubt aside from his past.

I don't disagree. I am also totally for gay rights. I think they should get married, have kids, etc. However, I don't want to see 2 guys going at it on TV. To me it's gross. Is that homophobic?

Not homophobic, but a double standard that isn't fair at ALL.

 

[CornBurrito]

there is a police comedy on TV right now and the few episodes I've seen, the police captain may be gay, but its never made to be as if it's the main part of his character, its just he happens to be gay. that could be it.

But if they decided to make that character's romance a plot suddenly is that unacceptable and shoving it in their faces and reducing him down to "gay" as his only defining characteristic?

 

[Divvy]

Reading the Yahoo article, it sounds like he's just a prude

 

[Choppasmith]

I get What he's saying. I remember this one supernatural show they aired on BBC America called Hex I believe. It seemed like every commercial they had to show a character saying the same line. Something like "Do you have any idea what it's like to be a LESBIAN ghost?"

After a while I was thinking, "Okay BBC, WE GET IT! Your show is SO progressive"

Another example is Gotham. I remember someone here in the OT posted something along the lines of "In the comics, Montoya is a good cop that happens to be lesbian. Here she's more like the angry lesbian that happens to be a cop."

Pretty sure that's what he's getting at. Don't make it like it's such a big deal, even if it's a good thing to be represented.

 

[ElectricBlanketFire]

You should source the original article instead of that blog, which omitted a lot of what he said.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/billy-crystal-says-gay-scenes-tv-pushing-003926796.html

Not seeing much of a difference.

 

[Karsticles]

I think he's trying to say that a character can be gay. It just shouldn't be the defining characteristic, that homosexuals are regular people.

That is what I took from it. Right now, most gay characters are like most black characters. They embody a set of stereotypes that define them in the public mind. Gay characters love fashion and dancing, speak with a lisp, etc. They are kind of like midgets were back in the day: paraded in front of an audience for amusement at their peculiar features. It is just in poor taste.

One thing I love about Brooklyn 99 is its portrayal of Captain Holt. He is gay and black, but neither of these things define him as a character. He is just a hard working man with an interesting personality that plays a pivotal role in the series. He is also hilarious. ("Cwazy cupcakes" always gets me) Yes, he is a member of a minority caucus for the police force, but this is an aspect of his character, not a gimmick.

I feel like that is what Crystal is speaking to here. Token characters are "in your face" not because they are gay, but because their only trait as a character is "being gay". Generally, I try to read people with generosity. Unless Crystal said something more heinous, I am going to interpret the ambiguity of his comment in a positive manner.

I don't disagree. I am also totally for gay rights. I think they should get married, have kids, etc. However, I don't want to see 2 guys going at it on TV. To me it's gross. Is that homophobic?

No more than not wanting to see old people have sex makes you a geriatrophobe (made up word).

 

[Garrett Hawke]

To be fair, I am only gay on some days. It's not an everyday type of thing.

Glad heterosexuals are allowed to be an everyday type of thing tho.

 

[thesoapster]

I'm not sure what his exact intent is here, but I do think most gay characters on TV shows are often portrayed unrealistically when compared to any gay friend I have or gay person I've known.

 

[The Adder]

Right because that defintely translates to this:

Except the first half of that wasn't actually from Billy Crystal. It was from the person who wrote the article.

 

[Stet]

Right because that defintely translates to this:

It says he "intimated" it.

That's a reporter editorializing. Just wanted to let you know that intimation isn't vocalization.

 

[Veitsev]

You should source the original article instead of that blog, which omitted a lot of what he said.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/billy-crystal-says-gay-scenes-tv-pushing-003926796.html

“It was very difficult at the time,” said Crystal. “Jodie was really the first recurring [gay] character on network television and it was a different time, it was 1977. So, yeah, it was awkward. It was tough.”

Crystal told the audience his groundbreaking performance didn’t sit well with some viewers back in the day.

“I did it in front of a live audience and there were times when I would say to Bob [Seagren], ‘I love you,’ and the audience would laugh nervously. I wanted to stop the taping and go, ‘What is your problem?'”

Yeah. Total homophobe guys.

 

[ivysaur12]

I agree, but Jack was as you implied balanced by the other gay characters. What Crystal is saying, I think, is that we're getting the point where the networks all want their shows to have a gay guy in them so they throw in a Jack and leave it at that. Of course I could be wrong, but that's how I interpreted his statement.

I don't see him saying that at all. This:

“Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are,” he said. “I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.”

In the context of:

But, the comedian says today’s gay storylines are, at times, too much.

Doesn't make me think this has anything to do with him his empathy for the state of gay characters on television.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

Billy fucked up by saying he won't clarify on what he means by 'to his taste.' Then why bring it up and let people's imaginations conclude what level of homosexual expression bothers you? Don't get coy with the vague 'hey now dial that back' talk and expect your ambiguity to shield you from accusations of homophobia.

 

[MormaPope]

You should source the original article instead of that blog, which omitted a lot of what he said.

https://tv.yahoo.com/news/billy-crystal-says-gay-scenes-tv-pushing-003926796.html

LOL, that doesn't paint him in a better light at all:

But, the comedian says today’s gay storylines are, at times, too much.

“Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are.”

Crystal isn’t the only person to raise the argument. “How to Get Away with Murder’s” gay character, Connor Walsh (Jack Falahee), has certainly gained attention for some of his provocative scenes. Falahee’s unapologetic sex scenes included some graphic moments that had some viewers squeamish.

In one particular scene, Falahee’s character famously had one of his lovers’ eyes water with an act involving the derriere.

“I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an every day kind of thing.”

He's talking about gay intimacy, he didn't reference that show in the paragraph, but hes talking about intimacy.

 

[The Adder]

of course they do, just look at every friend-of-the-main-characters in any US sitcom, but they are also defined as being regular, everyday people

I don't think you understand what "defined by" means.

 

[Samara]

He's talking about How to get away with murder to which I agree with 100%.
Dude in question did all of his things tru him being gay and irresistible to all men. Like are you serious? We get it, you're gay, that's not all you are.

 

[ivysaur12]

Yeah. Total homophobe guys.

What about that is mutually exclusive?

 

[sixteen-bit]

Bigot.

 

[Hours Left]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.”

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

Because he didn't say that.

 

[John Kowalski]

I have to imagine that the recent increase in LGBT characters is directly correlated with contemporary notoriety of LGBT issues and will eventually subside as they become less of an novel concern and more embedded with the social context of the audience.

Though i don't really know what increase there has been since i don't really watch that much TV.

 

[Red Liquorice]

There's like what, shows in single digits that show the briefest homosexual intimacy or characters that aren't the gay equivalent of blackface, and there are like what 63 billion shows that have huge long seat-squirmingly unnecessary scenes of fit, young, beautiful straight people having sex purely for titilation and ratings that have nothing to do with the story whatsoever?

I'd say the balance is still in favour of heterosexuality and that doesn't seem under threat any time soon, so crawl back in your hole Billy.

 

[MormaPope]

The character(s) who is (are) gay vs The Gay Character(s).

Same place I draw any characterization line.

You didn't elaborate on much.

 

[Takuan]

I think he's just uncomfortable with gay sex scenes. No one has to feel comfortable watching softcore gay porn.

I personally don't give a shit, but I totally understand why it would make some people uncomfortable and don't hold anything against them, unless they're pre-occupied with it.

 

[Chuck]

>straight characters have sex<
no reaction

>gay character exists<
":/ okay i'm not homophobic or anything but why you gotta be so out there with it WTF"

 

[CornBurrito]

The character(s) who is (are) gay vs The Gay Character(s).

Same place I draw any characterization line.

But are the characters really The Gay Characters, or is that all the audience can see?

 

[Hot Coldman]

get the fuck over it, old man

 

[Stet]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it’s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I’m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don’t abuse it and shove it in our face… to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.”

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

I interpreted it as him saying that it shouldn't be abused. Writers know that people will champion gay intimacy in a show because it's groundbreaking, so they write gay intimacy into their show for no reason but to win champions, and that's what he sees as the problem.

 

[Moppeh]

I think he's trying to say that a character can be gay. It just shouldn't be the defining characteristic, that homosexuals are regular people.

That's how I read it. But goddamn, I can completely understand other interpretations.

 

[dabig2]

I hope this doesn't sound off but I think there is trend of sorts with cable shows to make gay characters very promiscuous so they can can almost have a sex scene every episode. I notice this with Shameless on Showtime.

Everyone that show is promiscuous, hence the name. The gay stuff (which happens in far less quantity than the straight stuff) probably stands out to you because...well it's not straight.

And, Shameless has probably the best written gay couple on television so I find the complaint here kinda weird.

 

[lednerg]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it&#8217;s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I&#8217;m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don&#8217;t abuse it and shove it in our face&#8230; to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.&#8221;

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

Billy Crystal, who played one of television&#8217;s first-ever gay series regular on the comedy &#8220;Soap,&#8221; said today&#8217;s portrayal of LGBT characters is, at times, gratuitous.

&#8220;Sometimes I think, &#8216;Ah that&#8217;s too much for me,&#8221; the comedian told the audience...​

Very top of the Yahoo article.

The whole 'uptick in queer intimacy' part was added by the blog.

 

[MHWilliams]

I'm struggling to understand the benign interpretation some of you have of this. How do you get - paraphrasing here - "Characters can be gay, but it shouldn't be the defining characteristic" from an article which says that it was "the uptick in queer intimacy" that was "a bit too much for him", and where he said, "Sometimes, it&#8217;s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I&#8217;m not going to reveal to you which ones they are. I hope people don&#8217;t abuse it and shove it in our face&#8230; to the point where it feels like an everyday kind of thing.&#8221;

Could someone explain how they translate what he actually said into a commentary on writing well-rounded gay characters? I'm not seeing it.

Pretty much this. Even the Yahoo article doesn't do much for the quote.

But, the comedian says today&#8217;s gay storylines are, at times, too much.

&#8220;Sometimes, it&#8217;s just pushing it a little too far for my taste and I&#8217;m not going to reveal to you which ones they are.&#8221;

Crystal isn&#8217;t the only person to raise the argument. &#8220;How to Get Away with Murder&#8217;s&#8221; gay character, Connor Walsh (Jack Falahee), has certainly gained attention for some of his provocative scenes. Falahee&#8217;s unapologetic sex scenes included some graphic moments that had some viewers squeamish.

In one particular scene, Falahee&#8217;s character famously had one of his lovers&#8217; eyes water with an act involving the derriere.

&#8220;I hope people don&#8217;t abuse it and shove it in our face&#8230; to the point where it feels like an every day kind of thing.&#8221;

It is an every day kind of thing.

I hope this doesn't sound off but I think there is trend of sorts with cable shows to make gay characters very promiscuous so they can can almost have a sex scene every episode. I notice this with Shameless on Showtime.

Cable shows make everyone promiscuous, you just don't notice the heterosexual scene because it's normal. Every HBO and Showtime show makes it a point to show nudity and sex because they can.

Billy Crystal, who played one of television&#8217;s first-ever gay series regular on the comedy &#8220;Soap,&#8221; said today&#8217;s portrayal of LGBT characters is, at times, gratuitous.

&#8220;Sometimes I think, &#8216;Ah that&#8217;s too much for me,&#8221; the comedian told the audience...​

Very top of the Yahoo article.

That says nothing about "not wanting gay to be a defining characteristic". The best you can get out of that is Crystal believes in gay rights, but doesn't want to see gratuitous gay sexuality on TV.