So the EU will be forever boring then.
Star Wars: In Production [Rumors/SPOILERS for All Films Past, Present, & Future]
- Thread starter inm8num2
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So the EU will be forever boring then.
I haaaaate the prequels...but I agree.
It felt in continuity and safe that it was based on the official outline but without Lucas' awful writing
Both incredibly awful IMO.
But I give TPM the edge because of the lack of cringe-worthy romance scenes.
And Duel of the Fates.
Dooku, Jango, asteroid starfighter chase, clones, Coruscant speeder chase, better end battle, beginning of the Clone Wars (and damn that final scene is nice, minus the terrible CGI that has aged really, really badly).
Sure, the romance scenes are bad but i think there's enough better stuff overall than in the TPM.
Unfortunate that so many good things were more or less wasted though. Jango Fett was just ineffectual villain, we know next to nothing about Dooku (and Zam Wesel) and... well, so much was wasted, but then that applies to all prequels.
Also shame some of the deleted scenes didn't make it in, there were a couple of good ones, or with good ideas.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
SW, ESB and ROTJ were great movies because they had great ideas from Lucas edited and reworked by other people. I hope TFA still uses some ideas that Lucas suggested even if they claim that the whole treatment was scrapped. Because if it uses literally zero input from Lucas, what differentiates it from fanfic?
Even that one.
We were Uncharted 3 bros and then you had to go and be all like that.
You let me down, Ishida.
That it is made by the offical owners of the IP?
Legally speaking at least.
(Also it is likely to avoid most common pitfalls of fanfics, and will have many times better production values than fanfilms. I think. Might not, of course.)
It happens to me often. I'm bro with Terrisus because we both love Chrono Trigger, but enemies because I also love Chrono Cross.
I'm bro with several Metal Gear fans, but a handful hates me because I also love Metal Gear Solid 4.
Shit happens. XD
is "i know" fanfic because ford told lucas to get f'ed and refused to say "i love you too"?
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
I think Chrono Trigger is the better game, but Cross was pretty good. Where I had a problem with Cross is the battle system itself. This is getting off topic though
As for the Star Wars movies, I love them all. Have you read The Ring Theory concerning the Star Wars films? If you haven't, you really should.
Sectorseven
Member
I thought he was supposed to say something along the lines of "don't worry, i'll be back," but they changed it cause they weren't sure Ford would actually return?
IIRC, they tried many different lines yet none really worked so they had Ford to ad-lib something.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Of course. But I mean... they're going out of their way to reference the original concept art by Ralph McQuarrie to give the film an authentic feel, yet they would completely scrap Lucas' suggestions?
That's a way oversimplified example. What I basically mean was that if the producers and writers of ESB had somehow fired Lucas and completely scrapped his story treatment to make their own sequel to SW, it would have been a very different film.
I have no opinion on any of those.
But your so outspoken in your love of UC3 so this one hurts.
Why you gotta disrespect KotOR bro?
I have no opinion on any of those.
But your so outspoken in your love of UC3 so this on hurts.
Why you gotta disrespect KotOR bro?
Oooh wait! Don't get me wrong! While I never considered the EU as canon, I absolutely LOVED the plotlines in many of them, KotoR included! It doesn't need to be canon to be good.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Maybe his suggestions sucked?
What is Star Wars for you?
I have to say for me it is quite heavily McQuarrie's art.. I retrospect, i do appreciate Lucas' ideas (i just read that he more or less popularized "used future" concept), but that will never override the fact the visual impact of the films was... is more powerful than Lucas' ideas i think.
And i don't doubt that i'm not alone in this.
Perhaps this is JJA's and Kasdan's thinking as well? I don't know but i would not be surprised.
You guys gotta get over Lucas. Whether they were going off his notes/outlines/whatever or not was going to have pretty much zero bearing on whether the movie turns out good or bad anyways. It was always going to be a new thing made by new people, and that's kind of the point.
Also don't see how it becomes fanfic now. Was Skyfall fanfic just because Ian Fleming didn't write it? Lucas sold it! The people who own the IP are in control now.
Also don't see how it becomes fanfic now. Was Skyfall fanfic just because Ian Fleming didn't write it? Lucas sold it! The people who own the IP are in control now.
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
Same here. The EU had lots of great stories and ideas. I hope they look at those stories and try to incorporate the ones that work into the films if possible.
The Elite
BOSS
Pretty much. You can remember him at his best but he isn't going to be at the helm of Star Wars from here on out.
Honestly, anything he may have had planned prior to the sale to Disney shouldn't be something you assume is going to happen unless there was a contractual agreement.
terrisus
Member
You're like Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde :þ
WadiumArcadium
Member
Can't say I'm all that surprised by the news on Lucas's treatments. Would be interesting to see how they compare with the final film though.
So wait, when the credits role that universe just stops existing? That nothing happens beyond the title cards?
I just tend to keep the most positive outlook about the things/franchises I love. :3
Memories. Good memories. But I cannot use non-canon information on discussions, for example.
It's not like they stole your EU books. Let the fresh blood do their thing without being bogged down in 2+ decades of mostly crap.
As for Lucas' treatments, I'm sure they were the 5th completely different idea he had about what would happen after RotJ since 1977 anyways.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
This pretty much sums it up.
Was "Wrath of Khan" fanfic? It was a direct sequel to a previously existing piece of material, featuring ZERO story input from any of the people involved in the creation of "Space Seed."
Was "ALIENS" fanfic? It was a direct sequel, written by a completely different writer, directed by a completely different director, with no input from Shusett, O'Bannon, OR Scott.
freethought
Member
They're films, surely the director is more important than the screenwriter. Certainly we can give him more weight than the guy getting a 'Story by' credit. We already had a Star Wars film directed by someone other than Lucas and by the illustrious director of Robocop 2 no less. Most, or at least a lot of people think it's the best one. Not me, I think it's fanfic. Jedi too. OG directors only please.
That's generally how movies work. Except for Marvel films, they go on a little bit past that.
That's generally how movies work. Except for Marvel films, they go on a little bit past that.
So when Obi-Wan says "For over a thousand generations the Jedi Knights were the guardians of Peace and Justice in the Old Republic" you just scoff that notion way because you didn't see it in the film therefore it didn't happen?
BlueDogAnchorite
Member
I think that's a good thing. I try to keep a positive outlook myself :3
Actually if you venture into the world of the big Trek communities like TrekBBS you will find people in the Original Series boards who are pretty adamant that only the original stuff Roddenberry approved of (The Original Series + The Motion Picture) count.
Actually if you venture into the world of the big Trek communities like TrekBBS you will find people in the Original Series boards who are pretty adamant that only the original stuff Roddenberry approved of (The Original Series + The Motion Picture) count.
I don't think fan-fiction is a good description personally, but I can certainly understand the irritation of deviating from something that has already been laid out. It's not like they are going in blind, a "blue-print" was offered and refused.
So yeah, I wouldn't use the word "fan-fic" but it certainly is a case of "Richard Donner-Superman 2."
For me it all depends on the story. JJ is a poor ideas man but he is great with execution, the opposite can be said about Lucas. So here is hoping Kasdan is the force many of you assume he is.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Actually if you venture into the world of the big Trek communities like TrekBBS you will find people in the Original Series boards who are pretty adamant that only the original stuff Roddenberry approved of (The Original Series + The Motion Picture) count.
I'm familiar w/ those guys (they actually had a decent Battlestar sub-board at one point, but I rarely lurked anywhere outside of that) - but man, that viewpoint is ridiculous.
Especially considering that if they know as much as they do, they should know a lot of the greatest Original Series episodes basically rolled right past Roddenberry. Gene Coon was responsible for a LOT of why that show worked the way it did.
to be fair even lucas wasn't sure about the time span lol
25k years is a lot. I wonder if that's why inserted the "Thousand-year old Republic" line to AotC?
Presumably trying to imply it has existed only for a thousand year, that the Jedi Knights have guarded it only for a thousand years?
(Though this notion has been apparently abandoned (ignoring EU), as doesn't the Clone Wars refer to the Old Republic as being something that was something thousand years before the the Clone Wars? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Republic )
freethought
Member
^^^^I'm sure in Kotor they bandy about 20,000 years for the age of the Republic. I think anyway, been a while since I played them. Not that Lucas gives a shit really, he's not much of a details guy. Look at the whole parsec debacle.
My personal Trek canon doesn't include any episodes that feature mafia planets, cowboy planets, Nazi planets or Greek god planets. It does include Space Lincoln though. He was the Great Emancipator after all.
Actually if you venture into the world of the big Trek communities like TrekBBS you will find people in the Original Series boards who are pretty adamant that only the original stuff Roddenberry approved of (The Original Series + The Motion Picture) count.
My personal Trek canon doesn't include any episodes that feature mafia planets, cowboy planets, Nazi planets or Greek god planets. It does include Space Lincoln though. He was the Great Emancipator after all.
Actually if you venture into the world of the big Trek communities like TrekBBS you will find people in the Original Series boards who are pretty adamant that only the original stuff Roddenberry approved of (The Original Series + The Motion Picture) count.
Online communities are the only places where you'd see the word "fanfiction" used at all anyway.
The EU has ever since ANH said the Republic is 25k years old. Well, not quite that long. First explicit claims about that were in the Tales of the Old Republic comics, i think. At least. Those pre-date KOTOR quite a bit.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
A good director can make a good movie from a good or mediocre script
A bad director can make a good movie from a good or mediocre script
A good director can make a bad movie from a good or mediocre script
A bad director can make a bad movie from a good or mediocre script
NO ONE can make a good movie from a bad script.
prag16
Banned
Eh, I don't know. How many movies that typically can be considered good or at least decent have completely nonsensical and/or stupid plots... plenty...
Though I guess you're contention is that a "good script" can still spring from a completely nonsensical and/or stupid plot.
freethought
Member
So is George Lucas a bad director who made a few good movies, or a good director who made a few bad movies?
brandonh83
Banned
I wouldn't say that's necessarily true. They just thought they had better ones. I personally wish Lucas had a say in the "what happens" department, like the general character ideas, development, and central conflict, but if it's good, whatever.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
Well i haven't seen THX 1138 or American Graffiti, so i can't tell you if he's made more than 1 good movie
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Thx 1138 is probably his best film, honestly
brandonh83
Banned
It's absolutely true that fantastic scripts have been written, but at the same time I do feel like the director's vision, what the actors bring, the improv, the general production, etc. can override even a technically bad script. I mean, I've seen movies where the writing isn't particularly good that still ended up being entertaining and worth watching. Kind of like every single episode of Star Wars.
I'm not disappointed so much as I feel bad for Lucas. Is that weird? It's probably weird. It's his fault, after all. Still, it must be shitty for him to have no input in what he created and fostered for decades.
I also don't have much more faith in Abrams or Kasdan to cobble anything decent together. Neither have a glowing resume as far as writing goes, especially Kasdan. (JJ is a fine director, though) I wanna see whatever Arndt wrote.
I also don't have much more faith in Abrams or Kasdan to cobble anything decent together. Neither have a glowing resume as far as writing goes, especially Kasdan. (JJ is a fine director, though) I wanna see whatever Arndt wrote.
unholyrevenger72
Banned
It may override a mediocre script, Transformers 1 and 3, most Jackie Chan Movies, but never a bad script, Transformers: 2 and 4.
brandonh83
Banned
I mean, if you're talking that bad then yes, I'd be inclined to agree. Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen had a remarkably, impressively terrible script, but the script for the first one was still pretty fucking terrible. The third one had the luxury of not really having a script, so it ended up being like half-terrible and then the second half was watchable because people rarely talked and it was basically Bay just firing on all cylinders without trying to tell much of a story. Just action.
freethought
Member
The Transformers movies had scripts?
edit: Commando - Terrible script, fucking amazing movie. Check and mate.
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