APEX 2015 | Fighting Game Tournament | Jan 30-Feb 1

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Reddit would have you think that WE MUST CHOOSE IF WE WILL EVER ACCEPT NINTENDO SPONSORSHIP AGAIN OR ELSE PM MUST BE KILLED PERMANENTLY. Hence: "Community Decision Time: Deciding The Fate of Project M"

Not even all that serious.
The funny thing is that, as Ultra David said on Twitter, Nintendo could shut down PM whether they sponsor the community or not. For some reason people don't understand this. The community doesn't have a choice in the matter.

People keep saying "we don't need them, we built this community without them", and that may be true, but now that their eyes are on the community you simply don't have a choice to reject Nintendo.
 
Repost from FGW but godamn.
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Looks like some guy whose a copyright lawyer is saying PM is not illegal, but unauthorized. What I understand this to mean is they can cease and desist but not sue.

http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2unqlw/ultradavid_weighs_in_on_pm/

Edit: I may be remembering wrong but didn't PM start off as trying to put melee falco in brawl.

UltraDavid is a pretty cool dude. He'll be at GDC this year to explain all kinds of stuff like this.

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session/legal-issues-in-competitive-gaming

TeamSp00ky is uploading SMASH4 videos now on his Youtube, he should have everything except SMASH4 singles top 8 which is on VGBootCamp which'll come later as well. Both of these have a twitch archive if you want to scan through and watch the whole VOD now.

Yo, where's aMSa and his Greninja! I need to see that match again.
 
Looks like some guy whose a copyright lawyer is saying PM is not illegal, but unauthorized. What I understand this to mean is they can cease and desist but not sue.

Negative. What it means is that the PM people can be sued, but can't be put on criminal trial. There are two basic halves to the court system: civil court and criminal court. Civil court is like lawsuits about copyrights and making people feel bad and accidentally leaving a rake on the lawn that someone stepped on, etc, and mostly all it can do is make one party pay the other or stop doing something. Criminal court is where the government puts you on trial for things like burglary and assault and murder, and it can put you in jail or decide you should die. The two systems are pretty separate.

Copyright is almost exclusively a civil matter. So you can get sued, and maybe you'll have to pay money to whoever owns the copyright or maybe you'll have to stop doing whatever you were doing. But you can't get put in jail, outside of a few narrow circumstances.

A cease and desist letter is a common but not necessary precursor to a civil lawsuit. You're telling someone, Hey, quit doing whatever you're doing, cause if you don't, I'm gonna take you to court and sue you and you're probably gonna end up paying me money.

Let me know if you have any questions

(sometimes i search for my name on here blah blah)
 
Negative. What it means is that the PM people can be sued, but can't be put on criminal trial. There are two basic halves to the court system: civil court and criminal court. Civil court is like lawsuits about copyrights and making people feel bad and accidentally leaving a rake on the lawn that someone stepped on, etc, and mostly all it can do is make one party pay the other or stop doing something. Criminal court is where the government puts you on trial for things like burglary and assault and murder, and it can put you in jail or decide you should die. The two systems are pretty separate.

Copyright is almost exclusively a civil matter. So you can get sued, and maybe you'll have to pay money to whoever owns the copyright or maybe you'll have to stop doing whatever you were doing. But you can't get put in jail, outside of a few narrow circumstances.

A cease and desist letter is a common but not necessary precursor to a civil lawsuit. You're telling someone, Hey, quit doing whatever you're doing, cause if you don't, I'm gonna take you to court and sue you and you're probably gonna end up paying me money.

Let me know if you have any questions

(sometimes i search for my name on here blah blah)

Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?
 
Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?
If they transform Project M into its own game, write their own code, create there own assists, music, textures, sound effects and characters and publish it on a Nintendo console. Yes, then it could work.
 
Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?

Lets say they secure the rights again, just for Project M, hire the P:M team and start working in a game called Project:M
The problem is that the original P:M uses an exploit to run Gecko, the same exploit used to install hacks and stuff on the Wii. I dont think they want to be associated with that.
 
They could in theory grant a license to PM devs that would allow them to use Nintendo's characters and code legally but I'm not sure what the logistics of that would be or how that would affect their business.
 
Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?

Copy and paste PM and its systems and sell it as their own. Unless there are copyrights on the underlying systems powering PM, there is nothing the modders can do.
 
Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?

The easiest way to do it is have an official Nintendo system for modifications just like how Project M already has for Brawl Add-ons similar to Steam Workshop, and license and restrict that. It makes sense because Brawl has an insane amount of mods skins and otherwise, but realistically, Brawl's selling lifespan is done, and coding that in THEN making sure to police it so it isn't just a bunch of boob mods on Nintendo servers still costs money, but supposing all goes through, both could theoretically monetize (with Nintendo advantage) but it works.
 
DISCLAIMER: I got absolutely nothing against Project M, just trying to use some common sense.

I'm very late on this but:

So no one should make a similar work to something that inspired them?

Brawl Minus existed before PM, was that arrogant? PM is Project Melee, they made Brawl play like Melee, to the Melee scene that is ALOT better and is exactly what those players wanted, so if they are modifying Brawl, are they supposed to not make it like the game that made them passionate to begin with? Does that even make sense? Are the developers of Alundra or Darksiders arrogant for making a Zelda-like game? I think this conversation only exists because they are indie and filled a niche.

They actually made a game, they didn't mod an existing one without the consent of the creators while using an exploit to make it work on a system from the same creators. I hope you realize how wildly different that is. That's the same difference that allowed the flash Smash game to be at Apex while Project M wasn't.

What gets me the most is the outrage aimed at Nintendo, which is simply protecting their own work while trying to stay neutral in regards to Project M. They could've C&Ded it eons ago but they didn't, that says a lot already: Square Enix would have annihilated it after one day of development.

Project M players and creators seem a little naive to me: if I took someone else's work and modified it without permission, because I didn't like how it was, then published the reworked version so that everyone could see it... I'd at least presume that the original creator would get angry at me.

Look, Project M is a wonderful thing, made by the community for the community, however nobody should've expected to get away with it without repercussions, yet surprisingly it lived and became what it is today: we're at the point of crying that Nintendo doesn't allow it at Apex or doesn't want it to be publicized on stream, in an event officially sponsored by Nintendo. What did they expect? Why the outrage?
 
After this tournament I think I have a new Melee tier list. Also included are some of the top players who I think are pushing each character to their limit. These impressions are based on the highest level of play currently possible, and my opinion with regards to what the future may hold for each character as the game continues to develop.

Keep in mind this is based on the current competitive meta game. For example, I know Sheik beats Bowser and bunch of other characters 10-0 but since no one fucking uses Bowser in tournaments I'm more concerned with how she performs against the top tier characters.

ELDER GOD TIER:



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Fox (Mango, Leffen, Armada)

Melee in 2015 is a Fox dominated game. While it's not 20XX quite yet, after seeing Armada pull out what is essentially a pocket Fox and go on to beat the two best Fox players in the world, I do believe we are on that path. The order of my tier list is strongly dependent on the Fox matchup. The better you can hang against him, the higher you are likely on the list. It's hard to deny that Fox is the best character in the game right now, especially since three of what I consider the top four players now maining the character (not to mention many, MANY other high ranked Foxes). There is no character more fully explored than Fox, and unfortunately for us, no character with more potential than Fox. The depth of this character knows no bounds. They're only going to get faster and more technical and time goes on... until the players physically can't control him anymore.

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Marth (PPMD, M2K, PPU)

I believe Marth has the best matchup against Fox in the entire game: 50:50 on most stages, and 60:40 in his advantage on Final Destination. The two top Marths, PPMD and M2K, show just how devastating his punish game is. Being played ideally, a grab at 0% should result in death against any Fox or Falco, or at the very least an edge guard situation. Perhaps even more interestingly was PPU’s victory over Hungrybox this last weekend. A matchup that seemed unwinnable for years (not even M2K would dare use Marth against Puff) has finally been advanced to a point where careful spacing can result in the W. It’s close between Marth and Falco for #2, but after this weekend, I had to give Marth the nod.

Falco (PPMD, Mango, Westballz)

Falco is still a fantastic character that absolutely wrecks most of the characters below, but in this Fox dominated and Marth “One grab and you’re dead” metagame, it’s starting to feel like Falco is just a step too slow. Mango has seen little success with his Falco, needing to bring out the Fox to keep up with the other gods. PPMD felt more like a Marth main than a Falco main this past weekend, and once again, this was mainly due to his struggles with Falco against other top Foxes and Marths. Westballz flashy gameplay hasn’t resulted in wins at the bigger tournaments. If Falco wants to reclaim his spot at #2, I think he’s going to have to win some big tournaments. Marth and Fox have just seen way too much success lately for me to believe otherwise.


GOD TIER:


Jigglypuff (Hungrybox)

Amazingly, after all this time, Hungrybox remains as the only elite Jigglypuff. He continues to make the Fox matchup look free against most players… until you reach the gods. Leffen, Mango and Armada seem to have finally figured out the matchup, and Hungrybox has struggled. Is it because Hungrybox is playing less due to school, or has the Jigglypuff metagame reached its peak? Puff is still a fantastic character and pretty much beats the crap out of everyone else on this list, but like I said, that Fox matchup is crucial. I’d like to see more Puff players in the future push the character further, and in different ways. Perhaps a return to the character by a certain #1 ranked player… ?

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Peach (Armada)

While Armada feels that Peach struggles against Puff and to an extent the space animals, he has shown a punish game with this character over the last 5 years that no other Peach players have even come CLOSE to reaching. Peach’s combo and punish game against space animals is almost as brutal as Marth’s, as Armada has shown. Unlike Marth, she can actually close out the stock with her quick, powerful kill moves when the Fox is no longer in combo percent. While I believe Armada pushed Peach close to her limit as a character in this game, that level of Peach play is absolutely capable of hanging with the best of the best in this game, and I hope that not only Armada keeps playing her, but other Peach mains are able to reach that level someday.

Sheik (M2K, Shroomed, KK)

Sheik is still the easiest character to pick up and play in the game. However, I feel a bit of the Falco syndrome here with Sheik. She looks a bit slow at the top level. Her punish game doesn’t come close to any of the above characters now that players are so good at DIing out of what were easy kill combos in 2006. Most of Sheik’s extended combos and punish game comes from reading tech rolls, and preferably, reading platform tech rolls with a perfectly placed down air or two. While it’s hype as hell when M2K lands these, it ain’t easy. It’s also rare that he doesn’t drop the first game of the set against a top player with Sheik, and immediately counterpick to Marth on FD or FoD. Shroomed continues to develop his Sheik after dropping Doc, and KirbyKaze had a great showing though still lacks some of that polish that he had a few years ago, but neither player can hang with the gods it seems. Unfortunately, at the highest level in 2015, Sheik feels somewhat limited, especially against the top Foxes.

HIGH TIER:

Ice Climbers (Wobbles, Fly Amanita, Nintendude)

Wobbles at Evo 2013 showed the potential of Ice Climbers. Grab. Wobble. Dead. Repeat. Grab. Wobble. Dead. Repeat. He was able to take sets off PPMD’s Falco and Mango’s Fox with his Ice Climbers. Unfortunately, his pseudo-retirement has clearly hurt his play, and while Fly Amanita and Nintendude continue to improve and place very well at huge tournaments, neither of them have been able to take sets off the god space animals like Wobbles has. I think Ice Climbers have a ton of potential, and I can see them jumping up a tier if the top Iceys players continue to improve and polish their grab game.

Captain Falcon (S2J)

Poor Cap. While still probably the most hype character in the game to watch (and the most fun to play), the results just haven’t been there for him since the days of Isai. As Fox and Falco play continues to be perfected, it becomes more and more painful to watch favourites like S2J seem helpless in the matchup. Falcon’s recovery is just so terrible and Fox’s shine and Falco’s dair just completely shut him down. At the top level, Cap needs to be perfect. Get SOMETHING out of every grab, if not a solid combo. Get EVERY edgeguard, and punish the hell out of laggy recoveries. S2J is far and away the best Falcon at the moment, and he doesn’t really do either of those things, at least in tournament. Either S2J needs to patch those holes in his game, or Falcon needs a savior, like Axe or Amsa have done for their characters, to bring Falcon to the next level. I believe Falcon does have potential, even in this Fox dominated metagame, but it's not going to be easy, or pretty.


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Pikachu (Axe)

What Axe has managed to do with Pikachu, once considered a low tier character, is nothing short of remarkable. At this point, players need to start being a lot more scared of Pikachu. A great, unpredictable recovery, a chain grab against heavy characters, the strongest uncharged up smash in the game (yes, even stronger than Fox!) and a tail spike that seems like Sakurai put in the game specifically to gimp space animals means Pikachu has one of the better matchups against Fox and Falco in the game. So far, only Axe has been able to push the character to the speeds and precision needed to take out the best of the best, but it is indeed possible. Not easy, but possible.

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Yoshi (Amsa)

Pretty much read the above and replace Axe with Amsa and Pikachu with Yoshi. Never in a million years did I think a Yoshi would place 5th at a Melee tournament, let alone in 2015. Like Axe and Pikachu, this is the result of Amsa’s incredible character dedication, pushing the character from obscurity and irrelevance to its absolute limit. Not only is Yoshi now relevant, he's viable. I think at this point it’s hard to deny that Yoshi is a good character. Some of his aerials hit hard as hell. Others are great combo moves, especially off jab resets or grabs. His smash attacks kill at decent percents. Most importantly, his insane speed (if you can get the double jump cancels and wavelands down perfectly) and invincibility on his double jump allows him to actually keep up with the best Foxes and Falcos in the world. Just when you think the character has hit its peak, Amsa somehow improves at every tournament he attends, this time almost taking a set off Mango’s Fox. I hope in the future that some tech skill heavy players give the space animals a break and try to swag out with Yoshi, because he’s an awesome character that can hang with Fox and Falco surprisingly well.

Samus (Plup, Hugs, Duck)

Samus is a character that has been pretty constant on the tier list over the years. While her position doesn’t change, the character has clearly improved, especially in the space animals matchups. Samus’ are faster than ever, able to consistently punish tech rolls in any direction, and gimp recoveries in a multitude of different ways. In an era where Foxes are catching the best Marths and space animals with shine spikes at 0%, Samus’ incredible recovery is a solid asset. I don’t know how much potential this character has at this point (she still seems too slow to keep with the faster characters and players), the evolution of her matchup against Fox and Falco, which has resulted in sets like Plup over Leffen recently, gives me hope that Samus will continue to be a high placing character at big tournaments in the future.

STILL VIABLE TIER:

Luigi (Eddy Mexico, Abate)

Almost like Yoshi, Luigi players have learned to play the game so quickly that they’re managing wins off speed alone. With the best wave dash in the game, Luigi can punish tech rolls in a way no other character really can. He also has solid combo and kill moves. The success of Eddy Mexico and Abate have definitely caught me by surprise, and I think this unorthodox character definitely has the potential to be pushed further in the current metagame. Also, misfires continue to be the most hype thing in Melee.

Dr. Mario (Formerly Shroomed)


Unfortunately, with Shroomed seemingly moving on from the character for good, there are simply no great Doc players to look up to. For that reason, Luigi has slid ahead on the tier list and is now the best Mario brother in the game. Shroomed proved with his Doc play that this character kicks ass at high levels and can punish space animals super hard. Unfortunately, it will be hard to justify this position as time goes on and there are no Docs entering tournaments, let alone placing high.

Ganondorf (Kage, Bizzarro Flame)


Hype as hell to watch and hits like a beast. Three or four hits will probably kill your opponent. That sounds easy enough… in theory. In practice, the chances of Ganon landing those three clean hits before Fox can combo you 0 to 100 real quick and easily edge guard Ganon’s god awful recovery are slim :(


Everyone else is irrelevant at this point. But who knows, maybe Armada will have a change of heart and main Young Link and start bodying everyone. Maybe a Game and Watch player will come from out of nowhere and start killing everyone, like Amsa did with Yoshi. This game continues to surprise!




Let me know what you think. Is Falco #3? Does Pikachu and Yoshi deserve to be that high?
 
Is there a way for Nintendo acknowledge a work like Project M without fear of losing its trademark or copyright of the brand?

For sure, there's absolutely no legal problem with them just saying explicitly that PM can go ahead, Nintendo's rights in trademarks and copyrights would not suffer at all as a result of that. You mostly can't "lose" copyright rights anyway. Trademark rights can be lost but like, sooo much would have to happen for a giant like Nintendo to lose control over a giant franchise like Smash Bros that it's not even really worth acknowledging. There are some good reasons to be more proactive about defending trademark rights even still, but those rights wouldn't suffer at all if Nintendo gave PM a license to do what they're already doing.
 
Anthony, make the goddamned Super Smash Bros. Melee |OT|
Shine Bright Like A Diamond
already.

There. I even gave you a fucking title.

Stuff like this shouldn't be obscure and lost in random tourney threads/fighting game weeklies.

On topic: Totally agree with everything in that post.
 
For sure, there's absolutely no legal problem with them just saying explicitly that PM can go ahead, Nintendo's rights in trademarks and copyrights would not suffer at all as a result of that. You mostly can't "lose" copyright rights anyway. Trademark rights can be lost but like, sooo much would have to happen for a giant like Nintendo to lose control over a giant franchise like Smash Bros that it's not even really worth acknowledging. There are some good reasons to be more proactive about defending trademark rights even still, but those rights wouldn't suffer at all if Nintendo gave PM a license to do what they're already doing.

Thank you for answering.
 
Let me know what you think. Is Falco #3?

can marth be #2!? Don't both sheik and falco clearly beat marth??

Mew2king's marth would be relatively safe from sheik because he's the only one of the "gods" (i don't like that term :p) that uses her, but PPMD's marth would have to deal with mew2king's sheik (if he played only marth).

Then there's falco. Looking at mew2king's performance against PPMD's and mango's falco, it seems that marth loses to falco too (i have seen mew2king lose against falco so many times, it's ridiculous :p). I know, mew2king hates falco, but we haven't seen how PPMD's marth does against mango's falco. I remember watching PPMD using marth against multiple great fox player's like mango, leffen or armada but, has he recently used it against mango's falco?? i don't think so. It would be ok on final destination (and falco also does better than fox here) but... doesn't marth lose in most stages with platforms against falco? Also, in a 2 best out of 3, marth wouldn't even have final destination...
 
Anthony, make the goddamned Super Smash Bros. Melee |OT|
Shine Bright Like A Diamond
already.

There. I even gave you a fucking title.

Stuff like this shouldn't be obscure and lost in random tourney threads/fighting game weeklies.

On topic: Totally agree with everything in that post.

Agreed, that was an incredible post and I effing love that thread title. With EVO on the horizon and the potential to out "shine" APEX numbers, I think this needs to happen.
 
Omg if none of you make an OT I'll just do it lol, let me PM a mod and ask if it'll be okay

ask Anth0ny too, maybe he's actually going to make one :p At least, from what he said earlier, he has an idea of what he would like to see on the first post.
 
ask Anth0ny too, maybe he's actually going to make one :p At least, from what he said earlier, he has an idea of what he would like to see on the first post.

No reply from a mod yet, I'll PM Anth0ny too asking what he wants to see.
 
Just so everyone knows Anth0ny will be making it, but it can't be framed as an OT as per the details given by the mods. Anth0ny knows more about it since I PM'd him.

Edit: Also Mang0 is streaming on twitch for those that care.
 
A general Smash community thread would be better in my opinion. A Melee OT would die fairly quickly.

general smash community thread would be a shit storm. it's unfortunate but that's just the way it is.

every smash can get its own thread, including PM. they're all massive games.

also there are Melee tournaments almost daily, and certainly every weekend. I don't think it would die at all.
 
A general Smash community thread would be better in my opinion. A Melee OT would die fairly quickly.

No thanks, please.

I don't want to read any "which items, characters, or stages" -shit you want to see in the next Smash bros game discussions ever again. Keep that shit in the Smash 4 threads, thanks.
I feel that the only common thing between Melee and Smash 4 is the name and some characters, but that's it.
 
A general Smash thread would not be good. No one's going to get along.

Each side's going to attack each other and play the victim.

Edit: Also no one knows who I am on SWF since I use a different name (besides maybe a couple). I'll probably keep it that way, haha.
 
No thanks, please.

I don't want to read any "which items, characters, or stages" -shit you want to see in the next Smash bros game discussions ever again. Keep that shit in the Smash 4 threads, thanks.
I feel that the only common thing between Melee and Smash 4 is the name and some characters, but that's it.

You know you're on GAF and not r/smashbros right?
 
You know you're on GAF and not r/smashbros right?

So what? There are more than enough threads for Nintendo fans who want to discuss about their wet dreams already.

I want to discuss about Melee, it's gameplay and tournaments and so on. There's a good reason why the game is still so popular even after 13 years. It's just so good.
 
I havent been keeping up with this thread but i can say I would be very active in a Melee OT :)

Also Anthony, personally feel that Pikachu is better than falcon and ice climbers. Axe is amazing, but is not reaching full potential of that character.

Pikachu eats spacies alive and I think does very well against puff. I exclusively play pika against puff and have never lost a set in that matchup.

Great tier list though. I really agree with it.

edit:maybe I'm being a bit too positive about the puff matchup. Its not easy, but definitely doable.
 
So what? There are more than enough threads for Nintendo fans who want to discuss about their wet dreams already.

I want to discuss about Melee, it's gameplay and tournaments and so on. There's a good reason why the game is still so popular even after 13 years. It's just so good.

That's not what I was talking about. Your attitude was condescending as fuck.
 
Also to reiterate. IT WILL NOT BE AN OT, it will either be a discussion or community thread about competitive Smash. Mods already made their point clear.
 
can marth be #2!? Don't both sheik and falco clearly beat marth??

Sheik does not cleanly beat Marth at top level. Sheik likes to stay grounded, but Marth's down tilt and dashdance / grab game beat out everything Sheik has. The historic opinion that Sheik beats Marth comes primarily from that Sheik gets easier KO's, especially off of grabs, but Marth is able to win the neutral and establish stage control so well that it can't be considered a losing matchup for him anymore. I'd call it 50-50, or 55-45 in Marth's favor.

Falco is tough. I think I'd call that one even right now, because both characters have strong presences in the neutral game, Falco can effectively open Marth up and convert to KO's off of small openings, and Marth gets easy KO's on Falco too. However, I think as the meta continues to move towards amazing levels of consistency, and Marth players are able to powershield more and more lasers and aerials, the matchup will favor Marth more. That is, Falco's control of the neutral has an expiration date (or some aspects do), and Marth's doesn't.

Marth at #2 is completely reasonable imo.

Edit: I just wanted to add that I would also be interested in having a Melee discussion thread.
 
I havent been keeping up with this thread but i can say I would be very active in a Melee OT :)

Also Anthony, personally feel that Pikachu is better than falcon and ice climbers. Axe is amazing, but is not reaching full potential of that character.

Pikachu eats spacies alive and I think does very well against puff. I exclusively play pika against puff and have never lost a set in that matchup.

Great tier list though. I really agree with it.

I can see it. Pikachu is basically Fox Jr. I wouldn't be surprised at all if more Pikachu players started coming around and tearing it up.
 
Anth0ny my main objection to your tier list is your Sheik placement. She desperately needs to be modernized in the way that Marth, Fox, and to some extent Falco have, but she has the building blocks to be successful. In particular Sheik's 3-frame jump (and decent wavedash), strong ledge options (second only to Fox imo), and decent groundspeed and jumps will all allow her to keep up with the metagame speed-wise in the areas where Peach has been struggling. Her punishment is harder than Peach's now that everyone knows how to DI, but it's still strong enough to not hold her back.

I think the issue with Sheik is that the right person hasn't picked her up, like Leffen has with Fox or PP with Marth. She desperately needs to be modernized. I think Shroomed is showing a lot of promise in that respect, but honestly what we need is someone to combine Shroomed's neutral game fundamentals and innovation with M2K's consistent gimps. M2K is obviously incapable of advancing the Sheik meta, so right now I'd put my cards on Shroomed to be the one to push Sheik back into relevance.


On a different note, I agree with Pappasman that Axe hasn't capped out Pikachu's potential by a long shot. Small hitboxes and susceptibility to lots of common combos and chaingrabs hold Pikachu back, but I think the character has more to show us.
 
I posted on Smashboards once. I'm an 06er, so get off my lawn.

I don't have the same username over there as over here, because who the fuck pays for a name change on a messageboard?
 
APEX Post-mortem: Untangling Apex 2015 with Wife and Nintendude (APEX main TO)

http://www.twitch.tv/war_and_peach

Wife and Nintendude's are talking right now talking how APEX went down. Live right now.


So, Nintendo/Gaming Generations provided 64 Wii Us, 64 Adapters, 64 copies of Melee, 32 copies of Smash 64, 32 copies of Brawl, and 96 Wiis. This was the first event where no community support was needed for setups (Nintendude didn't say anything about monitors/CRTs. I guess Nintendo probably didn't provide those? I dunno.) Melee discs were used copies. I'm assuming the 64 and Brawl copies were used too. Everything went back to Gaming Generations at the end of it.

Nintendude said that Nintendo couldn't move Splatoon to the new venue because there was some kind of contract or some kind of permit required that they couldn't get at the last minute. He didn't really go into details about it.
 
So, Nintendo/Gaming Generations provided 64 Wii Us, 64 Adapters, 64 copies of Melee, 32 copies of Smash 64, 32 copies of Brawl, and 96 Wiis. This was the first event where no community support was needed for setups (Nintendude didn't say anything about monitors/CRTs. I guess Nintendo probably didn't provide those? I dunno.) Melee discs were used copies. I'm assuming the 64 and Brawl copies were used too. Everything went back to Gaming Generations at the end of it.

Nintendude said that Nintendo couldn't move Splatoon to the new venue because there was some kind of contract or some kind of permit required that they couldn't get at the last minute. He didn't really go into details about it.
So, I wonder how much of that Nintendo was responsible for and how much Gaming Generations was responsible for. Especially since it all went to Gaming Generations afterward.
 
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