Ah, good call. Traube may have a point then. It makes it difficult to be certain about anything that happened with his switches after he role claimed. I feel like he wouldn't have any reason to lie about anything prior to that though.
Ah, good call. Traube may have a point then. It makes it difficult to be certain about anything that happened with his switches after he role claimed. I feel like he wouldn't have any reason to lie about anything prior to that though.
Actually, even his Night 4 was a lie, but that was after he semi-outed himself with the Kalor/Ward stuff. I still believe his Night 1, 2, and 3 are accurate.
Zippedpinhead
Member
I am inclined to believe that only his night 4 was a lie. Quantum always said he swapped the person he thought would be targeted with a random player. There is a definite pattern to his post of characters:
Nin1000 didn't post much because he wanted to lay low,
Karkador really didn't come out blazing until day 3,
Ward was just some random and Quantumbro wanted to save Kalor,
Until this day cycle, Traube has been only posting once or twice a day,
and AbsolutBro was a also a low poster until recently.
The only person that doesn't make sense is amir0x and Quantumbro. Amir0x had come under fire that day so maybe that one was legit ( I think QuantumBro did vote "no lynch" that day), BUT QuantumBro was far from a "random" target. It is the only day that does not fit the pattern
With 70 posts in this thread? I highly doubt that.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Traube I am sorry,
It had been a while since I checked the who posted board, and you are right, you have posted a lot more than I thought you had. Same with nin1000, he posted a lot more than I thought, but his switch was also day 1.
I still stand by my assumption, that the only night that Quantum lied about was night 4, unless someone wants to say they KNOW he lied on a different day...
RobotNinjaHornets
Banned
So public transport is the best and not delayed all the time. Goddamnit. I'm also having trouble staying awake so reading and responding to everything won't happen now, but should tomorrow morning. Which means EVEN MORE STUFF TO READ THROUGH YAY.
But you'll have more information tonight since...List time!
Night 1: Traube - no target
Night 2: StayDead - target
Night 3: Palmer - target
Night 4: Lord - target
Night 5: Quantumbro - target
Night 6: Tomakasatnav - no target
So then, I checked StayDead again to go with Zipped's plan, and he did target someone. I was ill over the last couple of weeks so I wasn't on my computer as much, and as such completely missed out on the Lord debacle. I would've brought StayDead up in some way on that day phase, but clearly that didn't happen before my other redacted imploded on himself.
So that left me with a free check last night. Thinking about Zipped's plan, I thought it could work in reverse - someone who hadn't targeted anyone before could target someone later, and therefore potentially standard mafia sending a kill. So I checked traube.
VOTE: traube
Yeah he targeted someone last night, and I'd guess it was StayDead
Sorry for the wait on this, and sorry I haven't actually read/responded to anyone yet. This game is far too time consuming how do you do it how?
*flumps into bed*
But you'll have more information tonight since...List time!
Night 1: Traube - no target
Night 2: StayDead - target
Night 3: Palmer - target
Night 4: Lord - target
Night 5: Quantumbro - target
Night 6: Tomakasatnav - no target
So then, I checked StayDead again to go with Zipped's plan, and he did target someone. I was ill over the last couple of weeks so I wasn't on my computer as much, and as such completely missed out on the Lord debacle. I would've brought StayDead up in some way on that day phase, but clearly that didn't happen before my other redacted imploded on himself.
So that left me with a free check last night. Thinking about Zipped's plan, I thought it could work in reverse - someone who hadn't targeted anyone before could target someone later, and therefore potentially standard mafia sending a kill. So I checked traube.
VOTE: traube
Yeah he targeted someone last night, and I'd guess it was StayDead
Sorry for the wait on this, and sorry I haven't actually read/responded to anyone yet. This game is far too time consuming how do you do it how?
*flumps into bed*
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I pointed out that interfering in neighbouring states is not an exclusive property of Russia in the Ukraine thread. I'm not a Russian apologist, but I do think that approaching the situation from a moralist perspective is not in the slightest bit useful because ordinary Russian people obviously don't see themselves as immoral and certainly don't see the US as moral, so it makes negotiations difficult when one side says you should do what we say because we're the good guys. There are better ways to open dialogue.
Zippedpinhead
Member
Traube?
Any defense? The only reason I can think of to have you not target someone one night and target someone a different night is Mafia.
Any defense? The only reason I can think of to have you not target someone one night and target someone a different night is Mafia.
So your new list is:
Night 1: Traube - no target
Night 2: StayDead - target
Night 3: Palmer - target
Night 4: Lord - target
Night 5: Quantumbro - target
Night 6: Tomakasatnav - no target
Night 7: StayDead - Target
Night 8: Traube - Target
Night 2, 4, 7, and 8 being the new Information. Night 2, 4, and 7 are just too easy of a claim for me to like this very much. Screams cop-out to me. Night 8 feels like an attempt to bus Traube so that if we catch one of you, we'll disregard the other one. It's just hard to believe you only targeted people who had already self-confirmed they target.
The only people in a position to call you a liar are Tomak and Traube. I don't currently have any reason to trust Tomak so anything he says is kind of a wash in my mind. I already pointed out why I think the Traube thing could be a red herring as well.
What bothers me most though, is targeting StayDead twice. What the hell is this plan with Zipped that you mention?
Zippedpinhead
Member
The assumption was that Mafia without roles that target, i.e. goons, have two options on how they submit their kills. 1: switch who submits their kill everynight or 2: use the same person every night until they get found out.
Since he had found two people who target but were not yet revealed I said, "why not look at one of those nights, and see if they target again." If they do not, then we question them directly as to why they did not use their ability.
Staydead was the only person who HAD to use his ability every night, he couldn't help it. so he threw a wrench in the system.
However Traube, didn't target night one and instead targeted last night. At least he could explain himself.
Zippedpinhead
Member
posts 1193 and 1194.
AbsolutBro
Member
tomakasatnav
Member
Nope, I got nuttin'. It'll have to be Traube on this one, given the two different results.
Ah okay, that makes SOME sense then. I don't know how I missed that subplot before, so apologies for that.
Would it really make the most sense for them to use a regular goon to submit kills though? If LoC and Pants were going to be targeting someone every night anyway, it seems more logical for them to also submit the kills. It's very unlikely we'd ever catch them visiting two people at once. In fact, I think it's impossible knowing what we do now, though when the game started, the Mafia might not have known that for certain.
and nevermind, because Traube didn't target that first night, but did last night after the other two were dead, so that could fit. At the time you proposed the ideas though, it wouldn't have made sense to me. Not sure how I missed it.
If we're to believe this, however, it blows the previous theories up about RNH and Traube's voting patterns. Why would Traube have been attempting to save RNH those times?
Traube, do you have any counter-claims to make here? Tomak?
Yarp. I love him and hate him simultaneously. If we didn't have some other pretty good targets, I'd be all for stringing Karkador up today. It's always tempting.
Like I said, someone knows
Zippedpinhead
Member
If somehow we decide that we are going to lynch the person you targeted last night, would you tell us?
Another possibility is RNH is throwing blame on traube because he knows we are also suspecting him currently. traube could not be mafia, and RNH sees an out.
Either way, I still say we lynch RNH. If he is mafia, we know everything he said is probably a lie and traube is likely mafia too. If he's not mafia, well then depending on if traube reveals any more information on his role, we can discuss the pros and cons of going after him the next day.
Honestly, traube is like my sub-suspect still. I still think RNH and traube are both kind of a packaged deal, and RNH is just trying to survive at this point (he's proven he's pretty good at doing that last minute). I still see no reason to believe RNH or his list. Everything he said is either remarkably convenient or already known. It's impossible for anyone to counter his story (except traube) because everyone involved is either dead or was proven to target every night. It's also convenient that he waited to now to show his redacted names, who happen to be who are dead and/or mafia. Oh, and N7 you targeted StayDead, who we know for a fact hast to target people. And N8 you targeted traube again, who happens to be the other prime suspect (apart from himself). I just find this as an insanely unlikely coincidence.
Literally the only person that can counter RNH's claims is traube himself, who maybe be a mafia as well and just taking the fall. The current theory is that traube is a mafia goon with no special abilities, or just a townie who has gotten really unlucky with circumstances.
Basically, I'm sticking with my vote to RNH. traube is next in line, potentially. I'd say, traube, if you want to clear your name, you may want to consider role claiming right about now. You've gotten oddly quiet since RNH dropped your name.
Either way, I still say we lynch RNH. If he is mafia, we know everything he said is probably a lie and traube is likely mafia too. If he's not mafia, well then depending on if traube reveals any more information on his role, we can discuss the pros and cons of going after him the next day.
Honestly, traube is like my sub-suspect still. I still think RNH and traube are both kind of a packaged deal, and RNH is just trying to survive at this point (he's proven he's pretty good at doing that last minute). I still see no reason to believe RNH or his list. Everything he said is either remarkably convenient or already known. It's impossible for anyone to counter his story (except traube) because everyone involved is either dead or was proven to target every night. It's also convenient that he waited to now to show his redacted names, who happen to be who are dead and/or mafia. Oh, and N7 you targeted StayDead, who we know for a fact hast to target people. And N8 you targeted traube again, who happens to be the other prime suspect (apart from himself). I just find this as an insanely unlikely coincidence.
Literally the only person that can counter RNH's claims is traube himself, who maybe be a mafia as well and just taking the fall. The current theory is that traube is a mafia goon with no special abilities, or just a townie who has gotten really unlucky with circumstances.
Basically, I'm sticking with my vote to RNH. traube is next in line, potentially. I'd say, traube, if you want to clear your name, you may want to consider role claiming right about now. You've gotten oddly quiet since RNH dropped your name.
Well, to reiterate, the logic is like this:
I targeted someone last night, and they did not die.
If someone can name the person (because they targeted them last night), it pretty much guarantees their side, and you can all narrow it down a little more.
If someone interfered with me, you can still probably assume they're a town blocker or something, because Mafia likely doesn't have one.
As for your theory that it's an unkillable person- I have proof that it's not.
Either way, there is info to be mined here. But if I just give the name away, anybody can come in and say whatever.
We need to lynch someone, obviously. I think we have just over 24 hours to decide at this point.
Are the choices right now basically Karkador, RNH, and Traube? I don't see a major reason to target anyone else.
Karkador: Pro is we know we have to kill him eventually. He can disrupt stuff tonight. I'm not wasting any of my night shenanigans on him though. Con is he's probably not Mafia.
RNH: Pro is Mafia or not, we learn a lot. If he's Mafia, Traube stays on my list, Kitty stays off of it. Probably adds Absolut or Tomak to my list. If he's town, we can trust what he says and kill Traube afterwards. Traube and Kitty are on my list in this case.
Traube: Pro if he's town, and not a weird role that clears RNHs results, we'll know we can kill RNH afterwards. My list would me RNH and KK. Con is he's a bit less suspicious than RNH, and we don't learn as much from his death either way.
Are the choices right now basically Karkador, RNH, and Traube? I don't see a major reason to target anyone else.
Karkador: Pro is we know we have to kill him eventually. He can disrupt stuff tonight. I'm not wasting any of my night shenanigans on him though. Con is he's probably not Mafia.
RNH: Pro is Mafia or not, we learn a lot. If he's Mafia, Traube stays on my list, Kitty stays off of it. Probably adds Absolut or Tomak to my list. If he's town, we can trust what he says and kill Traube afterwards. Traube and Kitty are on my list in this case.
Traube: Pro if he's town, and not a weird role that clears RNHs results, we'll know we can kill RNH afterwards. My list would me RNH and KK. Con is he's a bit less suspicious than RNH, and we don't learn as much from his death either way.
Why again are you not telling us?
I'm getting tired of people not telling shit and playing all mysterious. There's several players that are inconsistent and/or lying.
Why again should traube not use his ability the first night? What ability could he have where it makes sense not to use it? Other than not using it because he forgot, which is something I wouldn't expect from mafia. Honest question, does anyone know a role where it would make sense?
Why again should traube not use his ability the first night? What ability could he have where it makes sense not to use it? Other than not using it because he forgot, which is something I wouldn't expect from mafia. Honest question, does anyone know a role where it would make sense?
Because there is value in leveraging it for info
On the other hand, can you tell me what is gained from just saying it?
I'd like to know who survived. That would allow us to speculate how said person survived and might force that person to come clean if he has a special ability. It would also be an obvious candidate for mafia.
At this point I'm also convinced that you coming clean was a really smart move, not something out of frustration.
I assume you've played Mafia before. Lying and inconsistencies are the norm.
Karkador's vagueness makes sense to me, currently. The poor guy is dancing on a knife's edged this game.
Same for the RNH/traube situation. Whatever the result, it will make sense once their actual roles are revealed.
If my own stuff is bothering you, I can't help you there. I gave Ultron the option of having me reveal, and he chose to trust me. If you trust him, trust me.
As for traube and his potential ability, there are roles with limited uses, or specific triggers. Johnnyquickknives, for example, could have killed someone at night once during the game. For triggers, there are roles that might be tied to another person, and they can gain actions once that person dies. It's unlikely to be the latter in this case. The most common and likely choice though is that any mafia member can turn in their kill, which makes them the person that's acting for the purpose of reports, etc.
He's playing us like a damn fiddle.
I'm much more concerned about someone else though, which is also why I'd love more information. I'll have to think about whether I should throw out accusations. Last time I did that with RNH it turned out (maybe) that it was a tourist and this case I'm even less sure. Did we ever get the name of RNH's role? Doesn't matter anyway I guess.
We can already speculate
Either they got saved, or I got blocked. If they got saved, there is a town saving-role of some kind (and then you're really not going to want me to say who it is, as it leaves the just-saved person wide open).
If I got blocked (which isn't unlikely), it could be Mafia or Town, and I leave it to you guys to discuss why it would be either .
Why don't you just reveal who you are suspect of? What purpose does being coy about it serve? Your accusations of RNH were good, in my mind. It got us more information in the end than we would've had otherwise.
He's trying to tell us something. Quick, we need a code breaker in here ASAP.
I went through most of certain people's posts and uncovered certain inconsistencies from early on in behaviour/general approach. It's really a stupid thing actually, but it bugs me. I'm convinced the person has a special role actually, but I fear he might be the cop (or as I asked earlier reverse cop).
If I survive the night I'll come clean, but I'll prepare a message if I don't. I wouldn't propose him as a candidate for lynching without a sufficiently thorough discussion anyway, not enough of us left.
I am usually quiet while I sleep.
I am from Europe. So probably in a different time zone. Sorry. But I did not target anyone last night. I also did not target anyone during the first night. So at least that information is true.
I highly doubt that hornets did target me again last night. Why would he look at the same person twice? Not much to gain from that. There must still be names remaining he did not check out yet. Much more to be learned from them.
I'll post more later. Don't have much time right now.
I am usually quiet while I sleep.
But I did not target anyone last night. I also did not target anyone during the first night. So at least that information is true.
I highly doubt that hornets did target me again last night. Why would he look at the same person twice? Not much to gain from that. There must still be names remaining he did not check out yet. Much more to be learned from them.
I'll post more later. Don't have much time right now.
So either RNH is lying or you are. Well, I think it's pretty obvious at this point, folks.
I agree. It seems like RNH and traube are clear candidates. One of them is lying. I lean towards RNH just because he's been acting way more suspicious.
I think we've got 4 votes for RNH now that Kark has voted.
Zippedpinhead
Member
VOTE: RobotNinjaHornets
It just seems so unlikely that of all the possible roles both the mafia and the town would have this role.
It just seems so unlikely that of all the possible roles both the mafia and the town would have this role.