Support NeoGAF

[Kintaro]

Every platform can handle good framerates. 60FPS games were running on 8bit consoles.

And here we are with consoles that can not. And a user base that tends to actively prefer 30FPS with prettier graphics. So when you market towards that group, you market a different way than you market to this group. When you market towards this group, you market it by saying "check out our game in a way that you guys are used to playing games!"

It is not hard to understand.

 

[HK-47]

This thread is hazardous to the human mind.

 

[kabel]

Oh shit! someone cheated on me then. Your framerate is fluctuating between 30 and 60 every frame. That's how refreshrate works.

???

 

[Alex]

Bring back the laughing smiley, this thread justifies it.

 

[Buggy Loop]

Are we really using 60fps youtube videos as a representation of how 60fps looks like on a monitor?

Cmon son

Im pretty sure youtube interpolates a shitload. There is something "soapy" about it ala 120fps HDTV tech that i never get when im actually playing 60fps on my PC gaming rig.

 

[Falk]

Are we really using 60fps youtube videos as a representation of how 60fps looks like on a monitor?

Cmon son

Im pretty sure youtube interpolates a shitload. There is something "soapy" about it ala 120fps HDTV tech that i never get when im actually playing 60fps on my PC gaming rig.

?

 

[Spazznid]

I really need to have identical footage side by side. I have not played much on consoles, I may be misremembering but from what I've seen of the PC version I don't see much difference at all.

Look up some comparisons on youtube. They're sometimes weird, because it's usually done by console only players and sometimes they don't know what to look for or what to highlight, but you can usually see for yourself what is improved. From what I gather, More foliage at better quality. MUCH further view distance and LoD, Better textures, much higher poly count for characters, and it looks as if some details on the cars are higher quality and have much better LoDs.

 

[D4Danger]

45fps

lol what is going on

 

[old manatee]

45fps

lol what is going on

It isn't sped up like 60fps.

 

[Swarna]

???

If he's got V-sync on from a visual stand point that is what he will see. Every 1/30th of a second interval he will alternate between seeing either see 2 unique frames (consistent with 60 FPS) or 1 frame repeated twice (30 FPS). If he's got V-sync disabled he's just getting tearing, though.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I really need to have identical footage side by side. I have not played much on consoles, I may be misremembering but from what I've seen of the PC version I don't see much difference at all.

The main comparison of textures is in this picture (can't find the bigger version right now):

At a first glance you might just attribute the extra bumps and holes in that wall to the different lighting, but there are entire new cracks and bumps on the PC version's texture whereas the PS4 is smoother and mainly just has spots of faded paint. This one might just depend on how you look at it.

Particles - Like I said above, no proof of that but I think it's safe to assume.

New radio - http://www.pcgamer.com/new-gta-5-radio-station-will-debut-with-the-pc-version/ (and the game will probably have a user track player like all past GTAs on PC)

PC exclusive enhancements:
The awesome headlight shadows casting from the first bike, projecting the second bike's shadow onto the truck. This isn't available on consoles, only select lights around the city cast these shadows. Headlights don't. It's also even better than IV's implementation as this screenshot shows clear proof of a vehicle's shadow being cast, IV only cast pedestrians/props as dynamic shadows:

Potentially working mirrors:

Zoom up really close to the red car's mirrors. They look more detailed in their reflections from the outside than the PS4/X1 versions do from even interior view.

There's also rumours of lines found in the files referring to car interior customisation and being able to use the indicators on your car coming to PC.

 

[-tetsuo-]

This thread is amazing

 

[NullPointer]

Holy shit that looks gorgeous, and I've already happily double-dipped and played through it twice over already. Rockstar knows how to trailer.

Those of you who patiently waited are in for a fucking treat. Enjoy.

 

[Solid Samus]

Wait a sec.... people aren't thinking that capping my framerate at 45 means that my framerate fluctuates between a set 30 and a set 60, right? Let me get this clear. When I say I cap my framerate at 45 I mean that my framerate is a constant 45 fps the whole time. So there's no fluctuation at all, it stays at 45 the whole time. Can't make it any more clear. So there is also no stutter, jutter, or any of that. I use MSI Afterburner btw. I don't have G sync, but I use triple buffering so my fps doesn't fluctuate.

oooooooooooommmmmmmmmmgggggggggg lol i'm dying. I'm sorry man but damn.


A standard computer monitor refreshes its image 60 times per second.

When a game refreshes its image 60 times per second, the resultant video is smooth. Each 'image' is onscreen for exactly 1/60th of a second.

When a game refreshes its image 30 times per second, the image is also smooth. Because each individual 'image' is onscreen for exactly 'two' frames, or 2/60th of a second, evenly.

When a game refreshes its image 45 times per second on a screen that refreshes 60 times per second, the game must repeat every 3rd frame in each set of 3 frames. Meaning, 15 times every second, one 'image' will be onscreen twice as long as it should be. hence, judder, studder, whatever you call it.

For anyone who's interested, play this video, fullscreen, at 1080/60. It's a video of Far Cry 3, locked at 45fps, played back at 60fps. The judder is pretty obvious. It's like trying to watch 1080p Youtube on a computer from 2003.

 

[MaLDo]

???

AABCDDEFGG

30-60-30-60-30

Average = 45 fps

 

[Woo-Fu]

Wow...... you guys are clearly seeing something I do not lol! What can I say? 45 is more fluid than 30 fps but so unnaturally smooth as 60 fps.

"Unnaturally smooth as 60 fps".

Unless you're some sort of machine every visually obvious framerate is unnatural. What framerate do you detect looking out your window?

Just state you don't like 60 fps if you want, but use some word other than unnaturally.

 

[MrCunningham]

When talking to customers of a platform which can handle those framerates? Yes.

Yup, Rockstar is very good at pandering to the right groups. They know that there are incredibly vocal PC gamers that lose their minds when a game gets capped at 30FPS, and they are playing up on this in the pre release marketing.

It is funny how 30/60/filmic/whatever FPS has really become a debate for this console generation. When GTAIV was released on PC, nobody was debating if the game should be released at 30 or 60 FPS cap. Grated it didn't really run above 20-30 on most PC's at launch, and it still took years for beastly machines to get it to run over 60FPS with all settings maxed out at 1080, but that is besides the point.

I wonder how many preorders they have so far. It's been in the top 3 in the Steam top sellers list since it first appeared.

I've been wondering about this myself too. The game is marked at a $59.99 ($69.99 in Canada) and it has been sitting in the Steam top ten sellers list for months. Those pre-order sales numbers must be crazy for this game.

 

[Dries]

Oh shit! someone cheated on me then. Your framerate is fluctuating between 30 and 60 every frame. That's how refreshrate works.

You've gone up to my number one again. Congrats.

All right. All right. In other words: my fps counter from MSI Afterburner stays at 45 the whole time. That's what I meant, obviously. But I bet you already figured that out and rather opted to try and come across as snobby and elitist, which is also an option!

I assumed if he isn't using G-sync then he is literally just capping the framerate at 45 using afterburner with no vsync on whatsoever?
.

Yeah, that's what I'm doing, but using triple buffering.

 

[robb_w7]

lol

this thread......

Ignorance is bliss

Looked amazing to me, cant wait to play it on 14th

 

[kabel]

If he's got V-sync on from a visual stand point that is what he will see. Every 1/30th of a second interval he will alternate between seeing either see 2 unique frames (consistent with 60 FPS) or 1 frame repeated twice (30 FPS). If he's got V-sync disabled he's just getting tearing, though.

You said every frame!

 

[Xyber]

It isn't sped up like 60fps.

Of course it is, just not as much as 60. Duh. It's closer to the true 30FPS speed and therefore it's better.

 

[MagicWithEarvin]

Looks amazing

 

[Smokey]

Oh shit! someone cheated on me then. Your framerate is fluctuating between 30 and 60 every frame. That's how refreshrate works.

You've gone up to my number one again. Congrats.

 

[Swarna]

You said every frame!

That was the other guy but if he said every 2 frames it would be accurate.

 

[MaLDo]

All right. All right. In other words: my fps counter from MSI Afterburner stays at 45 the whole time. That's what I meant, obviously. But I bet you already figured that out and rather opted to try and come across as snobby and elitist, which is also an option!

Afterburner shows AVERAGE FRAMERATE, not the framerate for every frame time. WTF

 

[Kezen]

Look up some comparisons on youtube.

Comparisons on Youtube are sketchy at best. I've seen comparisons on gaf but it was not direct-feed on both sides. Not that there is no hardware in existence which could allow Rockstar to improve visuals beyond consoles but I'm doubtful they will bother to do that. They have done so in the past though (GTA 4, Max Payne 3) so there is hope.
Some stuff I've seen seem way too good to be true, like barely any foliage on PS4 and at the PC setting shown there was a lot more. It's crazy, I can't believe this.
I'm alluding to this :
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=157733512&postcount=148

They're sometimes weird, because it's usually done by console only players and sometimes they don't know what to look for or what to highlight, but you can usually see for yourself what is improved. From what I gather, More foliage at better quality. MUCH further view distance and LoD, Better textures, much higher poly count for characters, and it looks as if some details on the cars are higher quality and have much better LoDs.

Would Rockstar actually go so far as to enhance assets for the PC version ? Usually PC improvements pertains to stuff like graphical effects (AO, reflections, shadows and the likes) and LOD while assets and lighting are identical.

 

[Loofy]

45fps isnt unwatchable. It should be like watching 24fps content on a 60hz tv or most monitors..

 

[Thrakier]

And here we are with consoles that can not. And a user base that tends to actively prefer 30FPS with prettier graphics. So when you market towards that group, you market a different way than you market to this group. When you market towards this group, you market it by saying "check out our game in a way that you guys are used to playing games!"

It is not hard to understand.

A consumer base who didn't play 60FPS for a long, long time (many of them) and don't even know why people would prefer framerate over graphics. While pretty graphics is a very, very easy concept to grasp for everyone. So whose fault is it? I'd say it's marketings fault and developers, not investing in the strengths of their medium with a priority, given that interaction is more important than video.

 

[Damerman]

oooooooooooommmmmmmmmmgggggggggg lol i'm dying. I'm sorry man but damn.


A standard computer monitor refreshes its image 60 times per second.

When a game refreshes its image 60 times per second, the resultant video is smooth. Each 'image' is onscreen for exactly 1/60th of a second.

When a game refreshes its image 30 times per second, the image is also smooth. Because each individual 'image' is onscreen for exactly 'two' frames, or 2/60th of a second, evenly.

When a game refreshes its image 45 times per second on a screen that refreshes 60 times per second, the game must repeat every 3rd frame in each set of 3 frames. Meaning, 15 times every second, one 'image' will be onscreen twice as long as it should be. hence, judder, studder, whatever you call it.

For anyone who's interested, play this video, fullscreen, at 1080/60. It's a video of Far Cry 3, locked at 45fps, played back at 60fps. The judder is pretty obvious. It's like trying to watch 1080p Youtube on a computer from 2003.

so if i locked my game at 36 fps on a 144Hz monitor, i would get no jutter/tearing(with v-sync off)?

 

[-COOLIO-]

VR support please!

 

[Solid Samus]

so if i locked my game at 36 fps on a 144Hz monitor, i would get no jutter/tearing(with v-sync on)?

yes, because each frame would be on screen exactly 1/36th of a second, refreshing exactly 4 times as the monitor's refresh rate allows before moving to the next one. iirc that and the low response time are why people like 144hz, because there's so many multiples at which you can lock your framerate and have it display comfortably.

 

[Swarna]

so if i locked my game at 36 fps on a 144Hz monitor, i would get no jutter/tearing(with v-sync on)?

Yeah.

 

[MrCunningham]

VR support please!

It would be a crime to not have VR support for first person mode.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

I hope there's a way to lock it to 24FPS for the full cinematic experience. My 970s are ready. Might wait until there's a mod for black bars for my full play through, though.

 

[GavinUK86]

For anyone who's interested, play this video, fullscreen, at 1080/60. It's a video of Far Cry 3, locked at 45fps, played back at 60fps. The judder is pretty obvious. It's like trying to watch 1080p Youtube on a computer from 2003.

 

[Dries]

oooooooooooommmmmmmmmmgggggggggg lol i'm dying. I'm sorry man but damn.


A standard computer monitor refreshes its image 60 times per second.

When a game refreshes its image 60 times per second, the resultant video is smooth. Each 'image' is onscreen for exactly 1/60th of a second.

When a game refreshes its image 30 times per second, the image is also smooth. Because each individual 'image' is onscreen for exactly 'two' frames, or 2/60th of a second, evenly.

When a game refreshes its image 45 times per second on a screen that refreshes 60 times per second, the game must repeat every 3rd frame in each set of 3 frames. Meaning, 15 times every second, one 'image' will be onscreen twice as long as it should be. hence, judder, studder, whatever you call it.

For anyone who's interested, play this video, fullscreen, at 1080/60. It's a video of Far Cry 3, locked at 45fps, played back at 60fps. The judder is pretty obvious. It's like trying to watch 1080p Youtube on a computer from 2003.

Yeah, that Far Cry video is pretty bad. But my games do not look like that?

 

[MaLDo]

For anyone who's interested, play this video, fullscreen, at 1080/60. It's a video of Far Cry 3, locked at 45fps, played back at 60fps. The judder is pretty obvious. It's like trying to watch 1080p Youtube on a computer from 2003.

Woah, I feel really dizzy looking at that for 20 seconds.


BTW, is too real this way. Not like a game but a real video 0_o'

 

[tycoonheart]

I don't know if that guy is trolling or if he's a bad liar.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Comparisons on Youtube are sketchy at best. I've seen comparisons on gaf but it was not direct-feed on both sides. Not that there is no hardware in existence which could allow Rockstar to improve visuals beyond consoles but I'm doubtful they will bother to do that. They have done so in the past though (GTA 4, Max Payne 3) so there is hope.
Some stuff I've seen seem way too good to be true, like barely any foliage on PS4 and at the PC setting shown there was a lot more. It's crazy, I can't believe this.

Would Rockstar actually go so far as to enhance assets for the PC version ? Usually PC improvements pertains to stuff like graphical effects (AO, reflections, shadows and the likes) and LOD while assets and lighting are identical.

Make sure you look at the pictures I posted, at the very least the shadow one is an undeniable enhancement.

 

[Dictator93]

It isn't sped up like 60fps.

lol

 

[Kezen]

Make sure you look at the pictures I posted, at the very least the shadow one is an undeniable enhancement.

Agreed, but now the question becomes : can we trust promotional shots ? Just because PC gaming is scalable does not mean publishers would not try to mislead us.

 

[No_Style]

That's beautiful. First time folks are in for a treat.

 

[chromatic9]

Tight trailer. I've already pre-ordered this ish but holy smokes does it look good. This will be my first time playing the game, I've avoided the story so far.

 

[Solid Samus]

Yeah, that Far Cry video is pretty bad. But my games do not look like that?

And you're sure you're not playing on something with a refresh rate >60? because otherwise they'd have to although the effect is less noticeable in games that aren't first person or where you're not moving and turning as quickly

Of course it is, just not as much as 60. Duh. It's closer to the true 30FPS speed and therefore it's better.

 

[TheAdmiester]

Agreed, but now the question becomes : can we trust promotional shots ? Just because PC gaming is scalable does not mean publishers would not try to mislead us.

I doubt they'd fake dynamic shadows, it's a pretty big thing and they've already proven their worth.

Also, I'd say we can trust these ones. The screenshots look kinda similar to the versions we can play now, and have almost no AA on them. If I was bullshotting something the first thing I'd do is try and clean up the IQ. I think they're honest screenshots.

 

[Kysen]

Fuck the base game, its all about the mods! Multi theft auto, so many memories. Tsunamis, anti-gravity, crazy peds, iron/superman etc

 

[GavinUK86]

Fuck the base game, its all about the mods! Multi theft auto, so many memories. Tsunamis, anti-gravity, crazy peds, iron/superman etc

 

[Nzyme32]

Wait a sec.... people aren't thinking that capping my framerate at 45 means that my framerate fluctuates between a set 30 and a set 60, right? Let me get this clear. When I say I cap my framerate at 45 I mean that my framerate is a constant 45 fps the whole time. So there's no fluctuation at all, it stays at 45 the whole time. Can't make it any more clear. So there is also no stutter, jutter, or any of that. I use MSI Afterburner btw. I don't have G sync, but I use triple buffering so my fps doesn't fluctuate.

 

[888]

That's not how it is in real life, though. Turn your head from side to side. The objects in front of you aren't static. I can't get over that in a game that's trying to be realistic like GTA. That's all I'll say on this.

I don't understand what you mean by "Static". That doesn't make any sense to me. Gamey either. I see smooth consistent motion.

 

[Dinjoralo]

New radio - http://www.pcgamer.com/new-gta-5-radio-station-will-debut-with-the-pc-version/ (and the game will probably have a user track player like all past GTAs on PC)

Aren't those songs coming to the console version anyway?
And by indicators, do you mean the warning lights on the dash? Well, whoop-dee-doo. So far, the textures/texture shading effects seem to be the best addition, which I'm still not totally impressed by.