RoadHazard
Gold Member
Probably late to this, but does this take consoles into account? AMD is in all of them now. Not the same thing, I know, but looking at just PC GPUs probably makes things look a bit more dire for them than they really are...?
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AMD/NVIDIA market-share graph. Spoiler Alert: it ain't pretty.
- Thread starter Pickles Spill
- Start date
Memorabilia
Member
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
It would be neat if there was a way to map all the "Nvidia is salty" posts that have been made on Gaf during the PS4/Xbone launch year and overlay it to that graph.
I would do it but I'm not that cruel.
Poor Nvidia, they must really regret not being neck deep in shit like AMD.
They lost $180m in Q1 2015 with everything included, which is pretty horrific whichever way you look at it.
No idea about the graph, though.
Memorabilia
Member
Lol Absolutely ridiculous and patently untrue. I wish people who don't own AMD products would stop spreading misinformation. Its like we're stuck in 2008 when it comes to this topic.
I own multiple GPUs by AMD and nVidia, use a variety of both company's products in various workstations, HTPCs, and gaming rigs. Both driver sets have their little advantages and neither of them has any big incompatibility issues that I've found (unless we're talking Crossfire/SLI, in which case both implementations are equally mediocre to bad depending on the game). Lets stick to facts and stop the BS.
Hardware wise, both companies have been guilty of rebadging/rehashing over the past few years. The one actual advantage nVidia has right now is they got to market with Maxwell & its highly power efficient design is very impressive for those of us who care (I do). I personally love the 750/750Ti and have 4 of them in different rigs. I also have a 960 in my main HTPC. That said, I have a 7770, 7850, & R9 270 as well. Generally, I prefer AMD products but Maxwell is so power efficient I had to go with them for my recent workstation/HTPC builds. Power/price is still neck n neck with AMD besting nVidia in bang for the buck at several price points.
AMD's main problem is lack of budget to match nVidias marketing...and people who spread negative misinformation. Regardless of a gamers tastes, he/she should always root for a healthy AMD because competition is good for us all by driving innovation and keeping prices reasonable. Only a fool would wish for a true monopoly market.
Edit: The islands GPUs coming in June look impressive. Gamers/enthusiasts are understandably looking to the 390X to put the wood to the 980 & maybe even compete with the Titan. Early word is its looking good. But what is even more important for AMD is the new mid-range is competitive with Maxwell in performance per watt. The $100-$200 segment is where they can start to claw back market share. Thankfully, it looks like the entire range will be new tech and not just re-badges again. We shall see.
cheezcake
Member
Console margins are terribly small compared to PC GPU margins
veggiesaurus
Member
Nvidia's one really big advantage in terms of drivers is CPU usage. Dx12 introduction will probably reduce that advantage significantly.
Why is everyone who doesn't like AMD software spreading misinformation? I bought a 7950 in 2012 and used it until mid 2014 (my first AMD/ATI card for over 5 years - the price/performance was too good to pass on), and the software side of things just isn't at the same level as nVidia. It lacks the polish of a premium product, and I had more issues in those 18-24 months or so on AMD than I've had on nVidia for years both before & after.
FreezerGeezer
Member
I have not really had issues with my AMD cards, and with the much better pricing on AMDs side I am surprised to see the market share leaning this heavily in Nvidias favour.
dr. apocalipsis
Banned
Except that never happened. Another biased mantra.
Both companies had their segment strongholds, where it is usually true that AMD uses to offer good value for economic builds. But performance/price ratio varies wildly as you inject more money into the equation along the different generations.
No, it's a graph for discrete graphics cards (a dedicated graphics card, i.e. not on the same chip as the CPU or not on-board on the motherboard, but a seperate card that you plug in the motherboard).
The profit margins for the console hardware shipments (the AMD APU [CPU and GPU integrated in one chip]) are likely very small. Nvidia refused to do console hardware because the margins were so small. AMD doesn't have an as high and stable profit as Nvidia, so they probably took the contracts they could get, even if the margins are small, it's still better than nothing.
Memorabilia
Member
Exactly. This was the primary motivation for mantle in my estimation. AMD's drivers have improved a great deal in the past 5-6 years in terms of stability & features, but based on the data we've seen from all the early DX12 tests it seems they're still not as efficient or "close to the metal" as nVidia's normal drivers. In English what this means is that while AMD's architecture & driver sets are generally competitive they leave a lot of performance on the table that mantle/DX12 is likely to unlock. DX12 bodes well for AMD owners.
Memorabilia
Member
Interesting. I have 3 computers in my household currently running AMD APUs/GPUs & a AMD APU in my laptop (as noted in an earlier post I actually have more computers with nVidia GPUs at the moment). I haven't noticed anything "unpolished" at all or had the slightest instability on a single game with AMD products in quite a long time. Years.
Edit: Not sure I understand what "lack of premium polish" means. It seems to me there's going to be a bit of variance in product quality based on brand & luck of the draw, regardless of whether you buy AMD or nVidia. For example, I've found that the EVGA 750tis I have are solid but not as nicely constructed as the Zotac 960. If thats what u mean I suppose I'd sort of agree, but only in that you cant guarantee what quality you'll get from one manufacturer to another. The Sapphire R9 270 & MSI 7850 I have are extremely nice, but the Visiontek 7770 is clearly not built as solidly. As far as drivers go, I can do everything I need to do in both AMD & nVidias driver software. Both are equally easy to use from what I can tell. Kind of a head-scratcher when I hear people talking about this topic because it really starts to sound like fan boy stuff.
PoweredByHentai
Member
DirectX12 is a HUGE benefit for AMD GPUs:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9112/exploring-dx12-3dmark-api-overhead-feature-test/3
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
The problem here is you have two sets of people: those that have only ever had Nvidia GPUs and have an antiquated view of AMD cards and software and who perpetuate the bad things they hear about AMD cards because why wouldn't they and how would they know? This is more ignorance than anything sinister.
And then you have another more malignant group of people who are firmly in the Nvidia camp after having spent hundreds of dollars on the newest NV GPUs and who choose to be wilfully ignorant about the current state of rival AMD products, helping to spread misinformation as it helps justify their investment.
Pick one of the two.
AMD drivers are still crappy.
Latest driver:
- In GTA5 if you enable MSAA, you get artifacts in the bottom right of the screen.
- In MKX you get the whole screen with artifacts in the Dead Woods stage (was fine with previous driver, but i need the latest for gta5 performance.)
I'm sorry, but never again AMD, this is enough. I learned my lesson.
Latest driver:
- In GTA5 if you enable MSAA, you get artifacts in the bottom right of the screen.
- In MKX you get the whole screen with artifacts in the Dead Woods stage (was fine with previous driver, but i need the latest for gta5 performance.)
I'm sorry, but never again AMD, this is enough. I learned my lesson.
Memorabilia
Member
I'll have to test this over the next couple days & see if I can replicate the problem in either game. So far I haven't seen any problems in GTAV with AMD or nVidia drivers...its been solid as a rock. Is this a documented/discussed problem? I haven't purchased MKX but have a buddy who has it so ill check it out.
While this is unfortunate. I can say I've had problems such as this with Nvidia drivers in the past.
Turin Turambar
Member
Coulomb_Barrier
Member
This is very interesting, thanks for sharing.
Seems AMD cards stand to benefit a lot more from DX12. I suppose this is what you would expect when they are not able to unlock as much performance currently from their cards through drivers as Nvidia. Interesting how Mantle and what is now Vulkan unlocks even more performance from 6-cores for AMD cards, too. Again, you'd expect this as they helped develop Mantle, but interesting to see how it compares to DX12.
PoweredByHentai
Member
AMD cards benefit much more from DX12 than Nvidia cards. This was something that most reviewers did not expect at all.
This sort of thing is exactly what those of us in the "we don't like AMD's drivers" camp have been complaining about. The hardware is fine, it's the firmware/driver that is shit.
Put it this way, when you have a graphics API abstraction from an OS vendor perform what is equivalent to the GPU version of the 2nd coming of Christ, you can't deny that the GPU maker itself has screwed up huge when an outsider provides such a better service that the product itself outclasses its direct competitor with the same tool. And the kicker is that the tool provided simply ignores/bypasses the factory-provided tools.
airmangataosenai
Member
This takes the cake as the worst/most dishonest spin I've seen on GAF in a long time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_launch#Release_dates_and_pricing
By the end of the first fiscal year the 360 had launched in every developed nation in the world. Meanwhile at that same point in time the 360 had not yet launched in half a dozen Western European countries, China, Korea, or Japan. Maybe it did poorly there, but they almost certainly are contributing more to sales than the Arab Emirates did for the 360. Also to note, that the reason the release was so far off was because it's an emerging market where beforehand they had no distribution, there will likely be at least one new Xbox One launch some point in the future.
Are you seriously claiming that it's impossible to prefer the NV software ecosystem while being well-informed?
I'm always buying the most powerful card I can get with a certain budget. I don't care if it's AMD or Nvidia.
Last January I happily bought R9 280X over GTX 770 because 280X had 3 GB VRAM and equal performance with GTX 770. It was a nobrainer decision for me. Both cost 300.
Before R9 280X I had a GTX 570 which is still going strong on my brother's PC. I've never had any driver issues with either brand maybe I'm lucky.
Last January I happily bought R9 280X over GTX 770 because 280X had 3 GB VRAM and equal performance with GTX 770. It was a nobrainer decision for me. Both cost 300.
Before R9 280X I had a GTX 570 which is still going strong on my brother's PC. I've never had any driver issues with either brand maybe I'm lucky.
I don't know what you mean, ATI was amazing back then. Their 3870/4850/4870's were pure beasts. It was when AMD bought ATI that the driver support started to become inadequate, and then the hardware/features took a bit of a dive too.
How does one who, I assume, has the logic and discipline in order to understand coulomb barriers write this, quite illogical, piece?
PoweredByHentai
Member
This is considering that he just found out about how significantly DirectX 12 boosts AMD GPUs.
>_>
Prophet Steve
Member
The 970 gives great performance for its price, even now that AMD lowered the prices on their competing products against it people still buy the 970.
The 980 and Titan X don't have too much competition. Sure, the R9 295X2 may run faster, trouble is that it is a dual-GPU and many people don't want those. And if people wanted that they could just go SLI 970 and perform better than both offerings for a lower price.
It makes complete sense for Nvidia to do what they do now. It may be overpriced in terms of comparing it to the costs of creating them. But considering the competition, they are not really overpriced in the market.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
I've never owned a ATi card, and it's not because I have anything against them, it's just that the driver support has always been mostly top notch on Nvidia. And when it wasn't back before Geforce Experience, when Notebook manufacs had designated locked drivers, there was a big community who made great modded ini files for all Nvidia cards.
See the big gain for Nvidia in 2005 Q3-Q4?
That's the fucking Geforce 8800. Can we raise our glasses for this king card? It's a legend among legends.
See the big gain for Nvidia in 2005 Q3-Q4?
That's the fucking Geforce 8800. Can we raise our glasses for this king card? It's a legend among legends.
kruis
Exposing the sinister cartel of retailers who allow companies to pay for advertising space.
Wow, So anyone who buys an Nvidia card is either clueless or a malicious fanboy.
velociraptor
Junior Member
I've owned two nvidia products (4800 Ti SE and 8800 GTS) and one AMD (6950).
Never really had a problem with the AMD card. Easily the best GPU purchase I have ever made. It can still play games at 1080p (4 years later!)
What I like about AMD products is that they are more sensibly priced. Nvidia GPUs are often charging you too much money for the GPU performance.
AMD have really slacked lately though. They haven't released anything as impressive as the GTX 970 - while they may have the 290 it's power efficiency is absolutely dreadful.
Never really had a problem with the AMD card. Easily the best GPU purchase I have ever made. It can still play games at 1080p (4 years later!)
What I like about AMD products is that they are more sensibly priced. Nvidia GPUs are often charging you too much money for the GPU performance.
AMD have really slacked lately though. They haven't released anything as impressive as the GTX 970 - while they may have the 290 it's power efficiency is absolutely dreadful.
wipeout364
Member
What is the current driver situation for amd. NVidia has pretty good software for telling you when their are updates and then installing them. I had an ati card years ago and it was not a good system they had. Have they automated the process like nvidia?
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
AMD as a company is very dumb. And i mean on management level. I have had so many friends who worked there, interns, full time and also contract. Everyone left after a while. They also sell/lease their buildings to show off profit at a time rather than make good and more products. Now they are also running out of building to sell in Toronto lol
My friend told me, once they fired so many people at once and then after a week they realized, we need some back because there isnt anyone who can do their job. So they called dew back.
Ya they are that bad.
My friend told me, once they fired so many people at once and then after a week they realized, we need some back because there isnt anyone who can do their job. So they called dew back.
Ya they are that bad.
I don't think he is. He is merely commenting on how some misinformation is propagated.
AMD has been able to close the gap before they can do it again. Their slow release of the 390X will hurt them because the majority of sales are in the $100-$250 range. The architecual changes in the 390X should be made available in a 370X but to my understanding most of their middle tier cards are just their older cards from last year with a different name. It's impossible to support AMD if they can't get over this slow production of advanced GPU technology. When they finally do they'll close the gap. If they don't Nvidia will get bigger.
If anyone is wondering how this person is saying a $300 card is almost as good as $600 card, I'll just point out this person is misleading themselves. The 290X launched at $550. They slashed the price when the 970 trounced them so thoroughly.
If anyone is wondering how this person is saying a $300 card is almost as good as $600 card, I'll just point out this person is misleading themselves. The 290X launched at $550. They slashed the price when the 970 trounced them so thoroughly.
That's kind of a shame. The 290X/290 generation AMD had a clear advantage. Hell you couldn't even BUY one of those cards except for hugely-inflated prices for months! In the end, it ended up being a waste.
And now AMD isn't competitive at the high-end unless you're looking at 290X/290 SLI.
Not to mention the problems with Adobe Flash Player. I'm running an R9-290X, and I get stuttering in all applications once I start a Flash video in Chrome (not all Flash videos but most). And AMD's drivers lag months and months behind major game releases.
And now AMD isn't competitive at the high-end unless you're looking at 290X/290 SLI.
Not to mention the problems with Adobe Flash Player. I'm running an R9-290X, and I get stuttering in all applications once I start a Flash video in Chrome (not all Flash videos but most). And AMD's drivers lag months and months behind major game releases.
the 980 stuff is nonsense. However a 290X is in fact faster and cheaper than a 970 (by how much is somewhat workload dependent).
So you are saying the people who said they had used AMD cards are liars because both of your scenarios essentially require them to only have Nvidia GPUs.
gigantor21
Member
Indeed. Not offering big enough performance jumps from series to series is going to be an issue regardless of marketshare.
Fried Food
Banned
My first (and current) dedicated graphics card was a GTX 760 and I have (and have had) 0 interest in going AMD next time around.
Distresssss
Member
There are trade-offs though. A 290x has a much higher TDP and gets much hotter than any 970, with or without overclocks.
I kind of disagree. For instance, when I bought my 780ti, I bought it the day it launched. My version cost 730$. A GTX 980 which is a faster card (by about 10-15% overall) and has 1GB more Vram released at 550$. The 970, for instance released at 330$ I believe and is faster than the GTX 780 which released for 550$ while having more Vram. A 10-15% jump each generation is just fine and most people will probably upgrade every 2-3 years.
Please. You just posted the proof right there. Stop being butt hurt over the truth. Plus, you're are being a little overdramatic there. X1 and PS4 was released in more regions the first week than the previous 2 consoles did. That's the truth of it. I don't know what the hell you were trying to disprove with that post there, bub.
Can Crusher
Banned
Now NVIDIA will want to take out Intel and vice versa.
