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[IrishNinja]

It's such an odd thought process to reconcile the notion that a fighter who boxes to not get hit and land enough hits to win rounds is this all time great fighter. I mean, we need to really look at his career.

He is a guy that carefully selected who he fought, when he fought them, and the exact conditions the fight took place in. He played mind games with guys. He would use cheap tactics, or gamesmanship like not approving Pacq's gloves until midnight before the fight. He dodged the biggest competitor whenever he was at his best, and instead made excuses until said fighter was older, not nearly as interested in boxing, and so on.

He started the fight grabbing constantly, anytime he was even slightly at risk of maybe being touched. He straight up ran a good portion of the first 6-7 rounds.

That to me isn't one of the all time great boxers. But still, he is a genius fighter. Exceptional defense. He hasn't lost. He probably won't.

When Ali fought George Foremen, he knew he was taking a crazy risk (something Floyd has never done). So he was smart, like Floyd. He trained in Africa for two months, getting acclimated to the weather. He focused on strengthening his midsection. He danced around the ring. He let George tire himself out by punching Ali's midsection. He did a lot of things Floyd did - the difference was stepping into the ring was already a big risk, and after he tired George out e actually attacked. He finished the fight.

That's the fundamental difference between Floyd and any other boxer I've seen. Great defensive fights and elusive fighters might dance and duck and dodge; but eventually they look for an opening. Floyd doesn't really look for an opening.

Floyd dodges and punches enough to win rounds. His skill, boxing intelligence and quickness allow him to execute that gameplay flawlessly. I understand that.

But I just can't consider him an all time great. He didn't have the true rivals like other greats. He didn't take risks like other greats.

I understand the technical skill he has. But it just doesn't feel right saying he is one of the best ever. I dunno. It's strange.

it does - he's fought (and handled) the best in his era. people go on about ducking, but can't name a worthy fighter where that happened. if that's the only thing in your criteria - aside from being a more offensive power puncher - that keeps him from being one of the greats, it's not really there. what specific risks has he not taken?

try a better angle than this tired casual stuff. ive been doing jiu jitsu for a while and i dont like watching JJ tournaments because i think they are boring as shit. i hate watching most grappling matches in mma because i think they are boring. it doesnt take an expert of boxing to realize mayweather is a boring fighter

...so you're casual in several fighting styles? oh

 

[ForsakenLotus]

casuals out in force tonight eh



already covered this:



some of ya'll wanted Rocky IV...go watch Rocky IV

I don't think that's entirely fair. Floyd is pretty unique in how he approaches boxing. He basically avoids everything he possibly can, throws a bunch a gauging jabs that may or may not connect (not the point), counters with cautious punches, and doesn't take any risks. He boxes to win points.

People want to see fighters engage. Floyd doesn't engage. That's why it's boring. Technically it's very impressive. But people who laud boxing as the sweet science need to remember that the overall purpose of boxing was to figure out how to knock out your opponent, or otherwise prove that you are a better fighter. Winning points doesn't prove you are a better fighter. Actually, uh, fighting them does.

 

[bozeman]

All these "hardcore" boxing fans bitching about the filthy "casuals"

Its like I'm reading a 2008 Wii thread.

 

[Chichikov]

try a better angle than this tired casual stuff. ive been doing jiu jitsu for a while and i dont like watching JJ tournaments because i think they are boring as shit. i hate watching most grappling matches in mma because i think they are boring. it doesnt take an expert of boxing to realize mayweather is a boring fighter

Personal preference are personal preference, and again, I get why people enjoy a crazy slugfests (I enjoy them too), but if you care about boxing at all (or any martial arts for that matter) I think you got to appreciate the defensive clinic that PBF put tonight.

Like that shit -

This is not impressive to you?
Are you not entertained?

 

[『Inaba Resident』]

this thread is embarrassing.
well, more like some of these posts but still

 

[mxgt]

All these "hardcore" boxing fans bitching about the filthy "casuals"

Its like I'm reading a 2008 Wii thread.

casual casual salt salt salt casual salt casual salt

just embarrassing

 

[Lazyslob]

...so you're casual in several fighting styles? oh

.. so youre a casual in being funny? oh

 

[VARIA]

All these "hardcore" boxing fans bitching about the filthy "casuals"

Its like I'm reading a 2008 Wii thread.

It's really fucking ridiculous and has a smug air of elitism that prevents them from acknowledging a boring fight.

 

[perineumlick]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Floyd is pretty unique in how he approaches boxing. He basically avoids everything he possibly can, throws a bunch a gauging jabs that may or may not connect (not the point), counters with cautious punches, and doesn't take any risks. He boxes to win points.

People want to see fighters engage. Floyd doesn't engage. That's why it's boring. Technically it's very impressive. But people who laud boxing as the sweet science need to remember that the overall purpose of boxing was to figure out how to knock out your opponent, or otherwise prove that you are a better fighter. Winning points doesn't prove you are a better fighter. Actually, uh, fighting them does.

WTF is going on in here? This is crazy....

 

[Jest Chillin]

It's really fucking ridiculous and has a smug air of elitism that prevents them from acknowledging a boring fight.

It also marginalizes people who could otherwise become fans and contribute to the revitalization of boxing overall.

It's funny because some say the phrase "boxing is dead" isn't true and that it's been around forever and will continue to be around. While it's true that boxing isn't going anywhere, the phrase isn't about the death knell of the sport but about the popularity of the sport being much lower than it has been and lower than it probably should be. The counter is often the buys that Mayweather generates. However when you recognize that he's only one fighter and that he's at the end of his career.. what are you left with?

 

[lupinko]

I need more entertainment because I'm bored right now, but this thread seems to continue on.

 

[IrishNinja]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Floyd is pretty unique in how he approaches boxing. He basically avoids everything he possibly can, throws a bunch a gauging jabs that may or may not connect (not the point), counters with cautious punches, and doesn't take any risks. He boxes to win points.

People want to see fighters engage. Floyd doesn't engage. That's why it's boring. Technically it's very impressive. But people who laud boxing as the sweet science need to remember that the overall purpose of boxing was to figure out how to knock out your opponent, or otherwise prove that you are a better fighter. Winning points doesn't prove you are a better fighter. Actually, uh, fighting them does.

i get what you're saying, but from a defensive point of view, it's actually very exciting to watch, is the thing
also few martial arts on this level are about what they were originally intended, to be fair

All these "hardcore" boxing fans bitching about the filthy "casuals"

Its like I'm reading a 2008 Wii thread.

casual casual salt salt salt casual salt casual salt

just embarrassing

no more embarrassing than me coming into an NFL thread saying why don't i see the kind've hits i saw in 80's games, ugh so boring when sports evolve etc etc

the inverse of this is ugh running dancing so boring boring why cant i see blood slugfest boxing lolololol

.. so youre a casual in being funny? oh

masterfully done

It's really fucking ridiculous and has a smug air of elitism that prevents them from acknowledging a boring fight.

it wasn't the fight you wanted (a slugfest). that wasn't what this was going to be, and you got suckered into the hype to believe otherwise...so you find it boring. okay? i don't have to know about the sport to disagree with that

 

[VARIA]

Like that shit -

This is not impressive to you?
Are you not entertained?

This was more entertaining and impressive:

Saved by the ref.

 

[Hunter S.]

Speaking of the UFC it is a shame that 1/5th or what 1/6th of what Floyd will make for this fight alone is probably more than what every ufc champion is worth combined.

I checked this out. The estimated net worth of Anderson Silva is 18 million. Probably the richest man in mma. Floyd Mayweather is listed at 280 million. I think I might be sick.

 

[IrishNinja]

It also marginalizes people who could otherwise become fans and contribute to the revitalization of boxing overall.

It's funny because some say the phrase "boxing is dead" isn't true and that it's been around forever and will continue to be around. While it's true that boxing isn't going anywhere, the phrase isn't about the death knell of the sport but about the popularity of the sport being much lower than it has been and lower than it probably should be. The counter is often the buys that Mayweather generates. However when you recognize that he's only one fighter and that he's at the end of his career.. what are you left with?

case in point: a ton of talented fighters right now, but if you don't follow the sport, you may not know them. if the general attitude is why don't i see fights like Tyson in the 80's, and the person isn't really trying to follow said sport outside of its largest fights, what should people do to convince them otherwise? this very page has some great mayweather gifs showing what he does, and YT links recently too, but they get ignored regardless because what's the point

 

[JasonUresti]

I don't think that's entirely fair. Floyd is pretty unique in how he approaches boxing. He basically avoids everything he possibly can, throws a bunch a gauging jabs that may or may not connect (not the point), counters with cautious punches, and doesn't take any risks. He boxes to win points.

People want to see fighters engage. Floyd doesn't engage. That's why it's boring. Technically it's very impressive. But people who laud boxing as the sweet science need to remember that the overall purpose of boxing was to figure out how to knock out your opponent, or otherwise prove that you are a better fighter. Winning points doesn't prove you are a better fighter. Actually, uh, fighting them does.

No, hit and dont get hit is the basic point/goal of boxing. Floyd does that as well as anyone of this era.

Floyd isnt a huge puncher. If he was you aould likely see him open up more over the course of his career, but it generally doesnt make sense for him to do so from a win the fight perspective. When he fought Gatti years back he did let his hands go and busted Gatti up because Gatti was way too slow to catch Floyd with counters.

 

[Lazyslob]

It also marginalizes people who could otherwise become fans and contribute to the revitalization of boxing overall.

It's funny because some say the phrase "boxing is dead" isn't true and that it's been around forever and will continue to be around. While it's true that boxing isn't going anywhere, the phrase isn't about the death knell of the sport but about the popularity of the sport being much lower than it has been and lower than it probably should be. The counter is often the buys that Mayweather generates. However when you recognize that he's only one fighter and that he's at the end of his career.. what are you left with?

it is dead. how can you have a sport absolutely no one watches other than 1 or 2 fighters every couple years or so. there are so many other great fighters that get no exposure on the other side is floyd getting 200 million for being boring. shits corrupt and i rather have boxing die, which it is

 

[Jest Chillin]

I checked this out. The estimated net worth of Anderson Silva is 18 million. Probably the richest man in mma. Floyd Mayweather is listed at 280 million. I think I might be sick.

Brock made more. UFC used to be much more lucrative due to sponsorship opportunities. That's changed for the worse though.

 

[darkwing-buck]

That Pac/Mayweather fight was such a snore fest, good thing the Clippers vs Spurs game delivered.

 

[IrishNinja]

"boxing is dead because i only watched this match", you know, despite returning to primetime, making a ton more than UFC, etc etc

No, hit and dont get hit is the basic point/goal of boxing. Floyd does that as well as anyone of this era.

preach

 

[perineumlick]

It also marginalizes people who could otherwise become fans and contribute to the revitalization of boxing overall.

It's funny because some say the phrase "boxing is dead" isn't true and that it's been around forever and will continue to be around. While it's true that boxing isn't going anywhere, the phrase isn't about the death knell of the sport but about the popularity of the sport being much lower than it has been and lower than it probably should be. The counter is often the buys that Mayweather generates. However when you recognize that he's only one fighter and that he's at the end of his career.. what are you left with?

It goes both ways. You have people making blanket statements about boxing being boring, but what sport is always 100% exciting every time out? I've seen plenty of boring mma matches too; does that make the whole sport boring? It's fine to think a specific fighter or style to be boring, but to not accept that every fight will not be a balls to the wall slugfest is silly. That's why the people in here saying shit like that are getting called out.

 

[Lazyslob]

"boxing is dead because i only watched this match", you know, despite returning to primetime, making a ton more than UFC, etc etc



preach

youre not making a point besides you like boxing. boxing is dead because the "casual" person doesnt like it. that is all the point in the world it is dying. you dont have a sport flourishing because a very small amount of people like it

 

[Arcayne]

I dislike the lifestyle Mayweather openly flaunts (I could just be envious, idk), but appreciate his tactical strategies in the ring. Those reflex/dodging/counter skills are impressive as fuck. As much as I wanted Pac to win, he just couldn't force Mayweather out of his comfort zone long enough to connect meaningful, impactful punches.

 

[perineumlick]

This was more entertaining and impressive:

Saved by the ref.

Except he wasn't saved by the ref; that punch came right at the bell.

 

[IrishNinja]

youre not making a point besides you like boxing. boxing is dead because the "casual" person doesnt like it. that is all the point in the world it is dying. you dont have a sport flourishing because a very small amount of people like it

looking at the # of PPVs this got, the purse that was up tonight...gonna have to disagree

 

[Hunter S.]

Brock made more. UFC used to be much more lucrative due to sponsorship opportunities. That's changed for the worse though.

This site I am using has him at $16 million net worth. This legitimately shocks me. The WWE must be paying in nickels and dimes too. lol Edit: To put this into further perspective, Peyton Manning is listed as $165 million.

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-athletes/mma-net-worth/brock-lesnar-net-worth/

 

[perineumlick]

youre not making a point besides you like boxing. boxing is dead because the "casual" person doesnt like it. that is all the point in the world it is dying. you dont have a sport flourishing because a very small amount of people like it

I've been to several fights this year at the Barclays Center that had a packed house. Lol, yeah it's dead.

 

[ForsakenLotus]

it does - he's fought (and handled) the best in his era. people go on about ducking, but can't name a worthy fighter where that happened. if that's the only thing in your criteria - aside from being a more offensive power puncher - that keeps him from being one of the greats, it's not really there. what specific risks has he not taken?



...so you're casual in several fighting styles? oh

The most obvious one is Pacq. Five or six years ago, when Pacq was really at his peak, fans were clamoring for a fight with Floyd. I remember more experts predicting a loss for Floyd if the fight happened, though that's conjecture (and my memory after a long day). When negotiations began, it seemed like every possible reason was given for the fight not happening. Floyd wanted Pacq to have a blood sample taken like a day or two before the fight. Floyd wanted a bigger cut than was offered. The fight conveniently didn't happen until five years later, after Pacq became a born again Christian and lost his edge, after he began focusing more on Politics, after he fought several fights (as an aggressive fighter). He waited for the perfect opportunity to finally agree to the fight.

The closest comparison I can think of is a QB who throws bubble screens and short passes, and the WR breaks it for TD's. And he are playing against at best decent defensive teams. The QB may have have skill in what he does, and may have great stats, but I can't say that QB is really comparable to somebody who puts up great numbers by having to make plays with average receivers against great defenses. The numbers may not be as good, but it's more impressive.

I know it's not a great example (it's late and I'm exhausted), but hopefully you see what I'm saying.

At best, Floyd Mayweather is a boxer who fought during a period where there wasn't a great fighter that he fought in his relative prime, but was a smart and skillful enough boxer to finish his career undefeated and is a fantastic defensive boxer even if he barely tries to actually fight and hurt the opponent. I just don't think that description is befitting of a boxer who we should label one of the best of all time.

Do we want a guy to try to win points, or do we want a guy to try to figure out how to take his opponent down?

 

[Lazyslob]

looking at the # of PPVs this got, the purse that was up tonight...gonna have to disagree

yeah but this is one event that did this amount in how many? and how many boxers make this amount? you cant take 1 event like this and try to make it seem this is boxing as a whole. its not. not even close.

 

[gai_shain]

This was more entertaining and impressive:

Saved by the ref.

why did the ref stop there?

 

[Jest Chillin]

case in point: a ton of talented fighters right now, but if you don't follow the sport, you may not know them. if the general attitude is why don't i see fights like Tyson in the 80's, and the person isn't really trying to follow said sport outside of its largest fights, what should people do to convince them otherwise? this very page has some great mayweather gifs showing what he does, and YT links recently too, but they get ignored regardless because what's the point

The general attitude really isn't "why don't I see fights like Tyson in the 80's" though. That's an extreme example that's being levied on people with nearly zero evidence. You're labeling posters in this thread because they felt the fight was boring, a sentiment that more than a few within the boxing industry echo.

Make no mistake. What Floyd does is highly worthy of respect. That doesn't mean it isn't boring though. In HBO's Legends show leading up to the fight both Lampley and Ketterman agreed that this fight could not be considered one of the greats (paraphrasing here) until we actually saw it. And that's because there was always the possibility that it would turn out the way it has.

It doesn't have to be a slugfest to engage viewers and be entertaining. There are many fighters who've used defense and avoidance to great effectiveness that were considered much more exciting to watch because they press their advantage rather than try to coast on points.

it is dead. how can you have a sport absolutely no one watches other than 1 or 2 fighters every couple years or so. there are so many other great fighters that get no exposure on the other side is floyd getting 200 million for being boring. shits corrupt and i rather have boxing die, which it is

It's a bit much to say no one watches it. Remember that a good number of countries air these shows for free.. so the buys aren't representative of viewership.

I do think it's fair to say it's popularity is waning though and it's reflected in the talent pool becoming more shallow over the years.

 

[VARIA]

why did the ref stop there?

It happened just as the bell rang to end the round. Saved by the bell rather.

 

[gai_shain]

It happened just as the bell rang to end the round. Saved by the bell rather.

ah ok that makes sense

 

[IrishNinja]

Do we want a guy to try to win points, or do we want a guy to try to figure out how to take his opponent down?

again i hear you, and KO's are exciting - but a win by decision isn't a hollow victory, especially with the gap in points this fight had. i totally get that it's not your preferred method as a viewer - whereas it's very much money's at this point in his career - i just don't see a fighter going the distance with the greatest of his era (even years later in this case) by masterfully controlling the fight, placing his punches with more precision & staying nearly untouchable for the bulk of said bout to be anything resembling "easy", much less discrediting when talking about his greatness as a boxer.

 

[Chichikov]

It's a bit much to say no one watches it. Remember that a good number of countries air these shows for free.. so the buys aren't representative of viewership.

I do think it's fair to say it's popularity is waning though and it's reflected in the talent pool becoming more shallow over the years.

I'm in Beijing, there were people lining up to see the fucking undercard bouts.
Every place that showed the match was packed and it was live on free over the air TV. all of social media freaked the fuck up because CCTV5 was carrying the Spurs Clips and they were worried it would go to OT and they'll miss the fight.

 

[HiiiLife]

Money Team.

 

[BadAss2961]

The most obvious one is Pacq. Five or six years ago, when Pacq was really at his peak, fans were clamoring for a fight with Floyd. I remember more experts predicting a loss for Floyd if the fight happened, though that's conjecture (and my memory after a long day). When negotiations began, it seemed like every possible reason was given for the fight not happening. Floyd wanted Pacq to have a blood sample taken like a day or two before the fight. Floyd wanted a bigger cut than was offered. The fight conveniently didn't happen until five years later, after Pacq became a born again Christian and lost his edge, after he began focusing more on Politics, after he fought several fights (as an aggressive fighter). He waited for the perfect opportunity to finally agree to the fight.

The same problems Manny had tonight are the same problems he would've had five or six years ago. He couldn't hit him. He was just outboxed and had no idea what to do.

 

[ISOM]

I'm in Beijing, there were people lining up to see the fucking undercard bouts.
Every place that showed the match was packed and it was live on free over the air TV. all of social media freaked the fuck up because CCTV5 was carrying the Spurs Clips and they were worried it would go to OT and they'll miss the fight.

Wow the spurs clips were on local tv?

 

[Jest Chillin]

It goes both ways. You have people making blanket statements about boxing being boring, but what sport is always 100% exciting every time out? I've seen plenty of boring mma matches too; does that make the whole sport boring? It's fine to think a specific fighter or style to be boring, but to not accept that every fight will not be a balls to the wall slugfest is silly. That's why the people in here saying shit like that are getting called out.

There are far more people being "called out" for saying this fight or Floyd in general is boring than there are people being called out for saying boxing is boring. If anything there's a bit of overlap in people saying "this is why I think boxing is boring" and that's a fair assessment from fans who don't watch every fight televised given that Mayweather is touted as the best P4P.

If a person hears about a great restaurant, goes and eats what's advertised as their best dish and is underwhelmed.. they're likely going to think the whole menu is underwhelming. It's hasty but it's logically natural to conclude as much.

 

[bozeman]

case in point: a ton of talented fighters right now, but if you don't follow the sport, you may not know them. if the general attitude is why don't i see fights like Tyson in the 80's, and the person isn't really trying to follow said sport outside of its largest fights, what should people do to convince them otherwise? this very page has some great mayweather gifs showing what he does, and YT links recently too, but they get ignored regardless because what's the point

This feels like me, as a fan of baseball, getting on someone's case who says that last year's World Series was boring and calling them casual for not understanding the nuance of a perfectly placed slider and then admonishing them for not searching out Kris Bryant highlights from the Cubs AAA Iowa team if they wanted to see more dingers.

For casual fans, the only time boxing has been a story lately is when the 2 fighters featured tonight were in the ring. If they find tonight's fight boring, watching Youtube highlights of Floyd doing more of the same isn't going to help and it shouldn't be their job to go seek other fights they'd find less boring. Its Boxing's job to put those fights front and center and get the hype train going and have ESPN be on site to cover it for a week and get the casual fan's eyes on those so they can see what else the sport has to offer.

 

[Chichikov]

Wow the spurs clips were on local tv?

NBA is huge here, pretty much all playoff games are on local TV (edit: it's national TV, not local, but you get my drift).

 

[Jest Chillin]

The same problems Manny had tonight are the same problems he would've had five or six years ago. He couldn't hit him. He was just outboxed and had no idea what to do.

Eh.. I'd say that Manny 5 years ago would've been more aggressive. That could have made a difference.

 

[justjohn]

Every Floyd post fight thread is the same. You can easily replace this thread with the victor Ortiz fight and it'll be pretty much word for word. Anyway I'm out. Stay mad.

 

[IrishNinja]

Eh.. I'd say that Manny 5 years ago would've been more aggressive. That could have made a difference.

personally, i thought he was pretty aggressive from rounds 2 to maybe early/mid 4, as i recall? i just kept thinking your trainer prolly told you to close this out early (longer bouts clearly play to floyd's favor) but that you can't keep that pace forever either

Every Floyd post fight thread is the same. You can easily replace this thread with the victor Ortiz fight and it'll be pretty much word for word. Anyway I'm out. Stay mad.

...this is also fair

 

[munchie64]

It's a shame this turned out more like Rocky I than Rocky II.

 

[Jest Chillin]

personally, i thought he was pretty aggressive from rounds 2 to maybe early/mid 4, as i recall? i just kept thinking your trainer prolly told you to close this out early (longer bouts clearly play to floyd's favor) but that you can't keep that pace forever either

However, it's evident that post JMM4, Manny has been more tentative. Manny 5 years ago was pretty damn fearless. I think he's more aggressive for more of the fight if it happened then.

...this is also fair

Given the way that fight ended? Really though?

 

[ForsakenLotus]

No, hit and dont get hit is the basic point/goal of boxing. Floyd does that as well as anyone of this era.

Floyd isnt a huge puncher. If he was you aould likely see him open up more over the course of his career, but it generally doesnt make sense for him to do so from a win the fight perspective. When he fought Gatti years back he did let his hands go and busted Gatti up because Gatti was way too slow to catch Floyd with counters.

I respect Floyd's ability to dodge and counter. Super impressive. It's just I believe Floyd's entire philosophy of, basically, evade and land enough hits to win the round and coast on points shouldn't be rewarded with being considered an all time great. If he doesn't have the power punches to knock out his opponent, he should try to wear his opponent down. He should try to dodge and look for openings and press his advantage.

In college basketball, there used to be no shot clock. This lead to the four corners offense, which meant instead of trying to score the basketball, which is the goal of the game, if a team was up they would simply pass the ball around and hope the other team couldn't steal the ball. That doesn't really prove you are the better team, in my opinion. Not only that, but it was a very unpleasant viewing experience.

So, among other reasons, that's why I give Floyd credit for his ring genius and technical skill, I don't see his way of boxing as being something that proves much other than he's good at running away/dodging other boxers and landing enough punches to skate by. It's the four corners offense.

Plus, I think it's crucial to have a legitimate rival. Among others, Ali had Frazier. Haggler had Hearns. It's not Floyd's fault he boxed in a relatively weak era, but the closest fighter to his "Frazier" he ducked for five years. Between his boxing approach and that fact, I cannot consider him an all time great.

 

[Rubenov]

Some money facts:

- Fight had the most bets ever, with the most money ever wagered on a boxing match

- Most number of bets were for Pacquiao, but Mayweather bets carried the most amount of money

- WYNN, MGM, LVS and other Casinos surely made a lot of money... these stocks have been battered recently and I'm making some bullish bets here in the stock market

 

[Dynomutt]

So to satisfy all parties what was suppose to happen tonight? A fight or a trial? Because if it's the latter Michelle Beadle and Rachel Nichols are Rizzolli and Isles law team and ESPN is televising. This is sad at this point Floyd...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rSCOpfrVVzI

 

[BadAss2961]

Eh.. I'd say that Manny 5 years ago would've been more aggressive. That could have made a difference.

Manny tried to be aggressive and was hitting nothing but air for the most of the fight. Manny's speed was supposed to be a problem, but it wasn't. Floyd landed many clean shots which made Manny have to respect him (Floyd does this to everyone), and the jab was there all night.