Wedbush Morgan: current gen consoles will continue for several more years

Wario64

works for Gamestop (lol)
old?

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/07/12/news_6128895.html

In Wedbush Morgan Securities' exhaustive annual report on the state of the gaming industry released last week, analysts Michael Pachter and Edward Woo poked holes in some commonly held beliefs about the industry's short-term future--and forecasted a period of steady, controlled annual sales growth of 10-12 percent in the coming years.

The idea of such stable growth seems to run counterintuitive to a gaming industry on the verge of a new generation of consoles, but Pachter and Woo believe that the current generation of systems still has life left in it.

"Unlike most industry observers, we do not believe that the industry has reached the end of a 'console cycle' that is winding down with slow or even negative growth. Rather, we believe that the current consoles (at least the PS2 and the GameCube) will continue to be the systems of choice for several more years, and expect a transition to the next generation consoles to occur gradually. As a result, we expect sales of interactive entertainment software to continue to grow at approximately 10 percent per year through 2010."

The flipside of the longer lifespan for existing consoles is that the next generation systems might not get off to a particularly impressive start, partly because of the prohibitively expensive and time-consuming development required by next generation titles.

"We expect the average next generation console game to take at least two full years to complete (with some efforts likely taking three to four years) compared with the average 20-month completion time for current generation games," the report states. "We think that limited time made available to third parties to develop launch titles for both the Xbox 360 and the PS3 will limit the degree of game play improvement in early next generation games."

Developers and publishers, therefore, might not have the inclination to make great next-gen games early in the cycle, the report suggests. Why step up the development costs to make games for an unproven system when you can keep producing content for proven winners?

"There is an installed base of over 84 million current generation consoles in the U.S. and Europe," the report reads. "To forsake the installed base and chase sales to an estimated installed base of 2.5 million Xbox 360s at year end would be insane."

Pachter and Woo also remained unconvinced that online gaming will amount to anything more than a niche market until late 2008, citing concerns with the business model and the relatively few genres that have successfully made the transition online. They even seemed to question the very idea of online gaming.

"We believe that most people play video games for a form of mindless escape," the report states. "The most popular video games are almost all single-player games, player vs. console, and allow the player to remove himself from a social environment. In these games, the player can act out fantasies of power (in shooter games), often playing the 'bad' guy and playing to win. MMORPGs are just the opposite, a highly social interactive experience. ... The level of social interaction involved in MMORPGs is inconsistent with the goal of mindless escape sought by most of the U.S. audience."

The report also raised questions about the future of supplemental income for publishers (in-game advertising and using microtransactions to purchase bonus content) and warned of an impending shelf space squeeze at some major retailers. With three new consoles, three current consoles and three handheld systems to support, Pachter and Woo think it more likely that retailers will devote their increasingly precious shelf space to proven sellers and squeeze out niche titles rather than expand the space they devote overall to gaming.

The outlook isn't entirely bleak, as something needs to cause that 10-12 percent annual growth the report is projecting. Beyond the simple tenacity of the current generation of systems to keep moving units for a few years, the report suggests that sales of "edgy" games will outpace all other genres by at least a 2-to-1 margin.

"Our bias is obvious: we expect today's late-teen boys (tomorrow's twenty-somethings) to drive interactive software sales growth for the next several years," the report reads. "As these boys grow into young men, they will become bored with kiddie and family-oriented content and will look for more edgy content."

Extreme sports titles are also expected to grow in popularity "as younger children age and emulate their older brothers."

The report also contained Wedbush Morgan's industry picks for industry-related stocks. The company is very high on Atari right now, projecting at least a 20 percent return over the next year, while publishers Activision, Electronic Arts, Majesco, Take Two Interactive and THQ were tagged as good buys with an expected 15 percent return on investment over the next year. The only rated publisher left out of the line-up of likely winners was Midway, which received a "hold" rating in light of expected net losses for the fiscal year and uncertainty over the effect of Viacom Chairman Summer Redstone's recent buying spree of Midway stock. The report says Redstone now owns approximately 80 percent of the company, and is looking at the possibility of "going private" with the company.

On the retail end of the spectrum, Blockbuster was a hot pick projected to return at least 20 percent in the next year, with Movie Gallery expected to top 15 percent over the same time. Due to uncertainty over the efficiency of their impending merger, retailers Gamestop and Electronics Boutique were given a "hold" rating in the report.
 
PS2: Yes. A number of major publishers admitted they abandoned the original PlayStation too soon. Probably not through 2010, however.

Xbox: Possibly, but rumors the original Xbox will be discontinued next year ain't gonna help, despite at least partial backward compatibility on the Xbox 360.

GameCube: No. Game sales have been weak for several months. Unless Twilight Princess significantly increases sales of other games, 2006 is the end.
 
Gamecube is pretty much on life support. Only Zelda keeps the heart ticking.

MS is going to drop XBox like a hot rock in a few months.

It leaves Sony with all the current gen scraps.
 
I could see GC retaining some shelf space if Nintendo plays up GCN playback on Revolution. It'd be like having a ready made budget line in place for new consumers, plus publishers might be more inclined to continue GC support.
 
Xbox games will be released (ports, mainly) well into '06, with most support coming from EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision. Once sales levels of Xbox games fail to return the cost of porting the game over (from PS2), then, and only then, will they stop releasing Xbox games.

PS2 support, like PSOne support, should last years after the PS3 is released. I see decent support until the middle of '07 and then mostly kiddy stuff and EA stuff through '09. Gamecube support has dried up already for the most part and I don't see it lasting past '06.
 
He's been droning on about this topic for the past year, and he's largely wrong.

Past console transitions have happened relatively quickly, and there is no reason to believe this one will be any different. You'll have a market for $20-$30 games on the current consoles for a while, but the people who pay full price for games (which is where publishers make most of their profits) will rapidly move on.
 
open_mouth_ said:
Xbox games will be released (ports, mainly) well into '06, with most support coming from EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision. Once sales levels of Xbox games fail to return the cost of porting the game over (from PS2), then, and only then, will they stop releasing Xbox games.

...

Gamecube support has dried up already for the most part and I don't see it lasting past '06.
Gamecube games will be released (ports, mainly) well into '06, with most support coming from EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision. Once sales levels of GC games fail to return the cost of porting the game over (from PS2), then, and only then, will they stop releasing GC games.

Xbox support has dried up already for the most part and I don't see it lasting past '06.


Funny how that works both ways. :)
 
Meh, I don't think gamecube or xbox have much life in them (though there is zeruda). I think it is safe to say the PS2 will trudge on for a while though. Just look at the playstation 1 for pete's sake heh.
 
Rhindle said:
He's been droning on about this topic for the past year, and he's largely wrong.

Past console transitions have happened relatively quickly, and there is no reason to believe this one will be any different. You'll have a market for $20-$30 games on the current consoles for a while, but the people who pay full price for games (which is where publishers make most of their profits) will rapidly move on.

transition may be quick, but software will continue to sell on at least PS2 for several more years. Sony estimates that they've only sold 50% of the PS2 lifetime software so far, so 50% more to go. Granted, a lot of that will be more 'value' titles, but EA have stated they transitioned too quickly last time and abandoned PSOne too quickly - a mistake they will not repeat this time round.
 
jarrod said:
Gamecube games will be released (ports, mainly) well into '06, with most support coming from EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision. Once sales levels of GC games fail to return the cost of porting the game over (from PS2), then, and only then, will they stop releasing GC games.

Xbox support has dried up already for the most part and I don't see it lasting past '06.


Funny how that works both ways. :)

It doesn't, though :) Can you honestly say that the remaining Xbox releases through '05 have dried up as much as Gamecube has?? Gamecube has already reached its "breaking point", imo, as evidenced by it's extremely weak 3rd party support currently.
 
open_mouth_ said:
It doesn't, though :) Can you honestly say that the remaining Xbox releases through '05 have dried up as much as Gamecube has?? Gamecube has already reached its "breaking point", imo, as evidenced by it's extremely weak 3rd party support currently.
But in this case "extremely weak 3rd party support" amounts to all the big games from "EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision". Both platforms have clearly slowed, no denying that, but people tend to overblow GameCube's level of lower support. This isn't Dreamcast here.
 
Rhindle said:
He's been droning on about this topic for the past year, and he's largely wrong.

Past console transitions have happened relatively quickly, and there is no reason to believe this one will be any different. You'll have a market for $20-$30 games on the current consoles for a while, but the people who pay full price for games (which is where publishers make most of their profits) will rapidly move on.

I think the PSOne proved this wrong.

They sold another 30M console AFTER the PS2 was launched. In previous generations, the console was just about on it's last legs when it's successor came out. Certainly none performed as well as the PSOne at the transition.

For this not to work, we'd have to have a combination of both the developers and consumers abandoning the system, which just doesn't seem likely, IMO.
 
open_mouth_ said:
It doesn't, though :) Can you honestly say that the remaining Xbox releases through '05 have dried up as much as Gamecube has?? Gamecube has already reached its "breaking point", imo, as evidenced by it's extremely weak 3rd party support currently.

jarrod said:
But in this case "extremely weak 3rd party support" amounts to all the big games from "EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision". Both platforms have clearly slowed, no denying that, but people tend to overblow GameCube's level of lower support. This isn't Dreamcast here.

Guys, guys, BOTH systems are fucked after this year.
 
open_mouth_ said:
Xbox games will be released (ports, mainly) well into '06, with most support coming from EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision. Once sales levels of Xbox games fail to return the cost of porting the game over (from PS2), then, and only then, will they stop releasing Xbox games.

PS2 support, like PSOne support, should last years after the PS3 is released. I see decent support until the middle of '07 and then mostly kiddy stuff and EA stuff through '09. Gamecube support has dried up already for the most part and I don't see it lasting past '06.

Nail meet hammer, hammer meet nail.
 
jarrod said:
But in this case "extremely weak 3rd party support" amounts to all the big games from "EA, Ubi Soft, and Activision". Both platforms have clearly slowed, no denying that, but people tend to overblow GameCube's level of lower support. This isn't Dreamcast here.

Well, the GC has 73 upcoming releases compared to the Xbox's 149 on ebgames.com... not abysmal true, but still, pretty low numbers there.
 
AniHawk said:
Guys, guys, BOTH systems are fucked after this year.

WE%20CAN%20GET%20ALONG.jpg
 
open_mouth_ said:
Well, the GC has 73 upcoming releases compared to the Xbox's 149 on ebgames.com... not abysmal true, but still, pretty low numbers there.

Man, that just goes to show how big a difference between this gen and the last. The N64 didn't have more than 200 games and people are complaining that only 73 are being released.

I think GC will become a decent kiddie alternative if they dont pull systems after 2006. The types of PSOne games released after 2000 would prolly do well on the GC and PS2 after 2006, sorta like how the Dreamcast was getting Japanese support after 2002.
 
sonycowboy said:
I think the PSOne proved this wrong.

They sold another 30M console AFTER the PS2 was launched. In previous generations, the console was just about on it's last legs when it's successor came out. Certainly none performed as well as the PSOne at the transition.

For this not to work, we'd have to have a combination of both the developers and consumers abandoning the system, which just doesn't seem likely, IMO.
There's no question that they will sell a lot more PS2s at $99 and $49 in due course. But the people who wait five years to pick up a console at $99 don't tend to rush out and buy lots of $50 games. They buy mostly used games and cheap catalog titles, and maybe $30 Madden. From a software publishers' perspective, late-generation buyers are pretty worthless.

Your best customers, who account for the bulk of the high-margin sales, are the early adopters who will rapidly move to the new systems. Even if only 20% of the current installed base transitions in 2 years, they probably account for 50% of game sales. So Pachter's assumption that new consoles will not contribute meaningful sales for years is wrong.

EDIT: He does make a good point about the longer development cycles though. Sales may be slower simply because it is taking longer to get new titles out on the shelves.
 
Well, if the price of the games are going up from 10 to 15$ more, it may just end up resembling what is said in this article.
As for the 2 years of devellopement for a next-gen game = LOLOLOLOLOLOL -- they are going to squeeze you yearly release and this at the detriment of quality and innovation.
 
open_mouth_ said:
Well, the GC has 73 upcoming releases compared to the Xbox's 149 on ebgames.com... not abysmal true, but still, pretty low numbers there.
Those lists tend to be padded by peripherals, controllers and deluxe editions. The actual game count is likely a bit lower on both sides (moreso on Xbox though).
 
Pachter and Woo also remained unconvinced that online gaming will amount to anything more than a niche market until late 2008, citing concerns with the business model and the relatively few genres that have successfully made the transition online. They even seemed to question the very idea of online gaming.

"We believe that most people play video games for a form of mindless escape," the report states. "The most popular video games are almost all single-player games, player vs. console, and allow the player to remove himself from a social environment. In these games, the player can act out fantasies of power (in shooter games), often playing the 'bad' guy and playing to win. MMORPGs are just the opposite, a highly social interactive experience. ... The level of social interaction involved in MMORPGs is inconsistent with the goal of mindless escape sought by most of the U.S. audience."

What? Isn't World of Warcraft making money like crazy? One of the biggest games this gen, Halo 2, has a huge multiplayer aspect. I'm not a Live user but I still think online will be very big in the future. I think these two paragraphs throw the validity of these experts into question. Games are "mindless" now?
 
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