Yeah dudes, keep telling yourself they stole balls from the official's locker room and secretly deflated them to legal limits. Or that either one of these nobodies would conspire to do anything to the balls without Brady's consent. Or that the same morons who couldn't find a fucking video tape orchestrated a sting operation on Bill Belichick's home turf. Whatever helps you get through this. Personally, I'd just give everyone the finger and say "fuck your teams, cheat better.".
Tom Brady suspended for 4 games; Patriots lose first-round draft pick; fined $1 mil
- Thread starter Amir0x
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No. Because belicheck openly admitted to doing it. He thought he was being smart on a technicality and was punished for it. The jets had got caught the year before doing the same thing. I memo went out saying don't do this. Belicheck went, ok I'll just do it another way.
There was no actual cheating.
I.....Don't know what to say.
Thanks for mentioning the pages.
So based on that can we not validate the claim of the site I posted? If we can use the weather and other factors that were recorded we should be able to input the data into the formula and come close to the post game PSI numbers correct?
I think the scientific methods used can't be questioned but the DATA and assumptions that went into the scientific methods used are the biggest sticking points.
No one can refute that after the balls were pumped at half time they both declined at similar if not same rates but what can be refuted is that Anderson never measured the PSI of the balls before the game and all we have is the NFL and Well's report stating he's dependable so we can take his word at it. That's not scientific at all.
There's some statistical analysis done that mostly validates that Anderson's assumptions are correct - mostly because the first half decline of the Colts balls are in line with what Anderson said their pre-game measurements were and the natural decline from that.
Good luck with that. At this point the suspension is more for not cooperating with the investigation than anything else. If they try to take this to court, the NFL can subpoena phone records and all testimony will come under oath. High risk scenario.
Acerac
Banned
LyleLanley
Banned
I would love if we get subpoena'd phone records over under-inflated footballs.
Epsilon-delta
Banned
Exactly. His legacy is already tainted but I guess he doesn't care anymore and is going for broke for whatever reason.
I'm a Pats fan so take the following with the grain of salt...
I think pgs 216-221 are pretty interesting as they ran a simulation of game day. All the details are in that section but the gist is that they filled balls ~70F, put them in a cold room for a couple hours (some were wet down, some were dry), brought them out and measured them over the course of 10 minutes.
Note: I'm only discussing the logo gauge since that's what Anderson recalled using before the game and we're also going off his word the Pats balls started at 12.5 and the Colts at 13.0.
Pg 205 gives the averages for the logo gauge, game day, half time readings as converted to the Master Gauge as:
Pats Colts
11.21 12.40
Pg 219 gives us the table for logo gauge, simulation day as converted to Master Gauge readings as (which I've averaged):
Pats Colts
11.45 12.25
Deltas between actual game day and simulation:
Pats Colts
-.24 .15
To me (again, as an admitted fan), this seems completely reasonable considering the simulation only measured 3 Patriot balls in the first 5 minutes, then 3 Colt balls in the next 5. On game day, it was more likely the 13 Patriot balls in the first ~10 minutes, then 4 Colt balls in the next ~3. This would mean more Patriot balls were measured when they were colder and the Colts balls had more time to warm.
All of the statistical analysis done prior in the report doesn't account for the Colts balls warming up for 10 minutes being measured. However, the simulation did and the results seem pretty close to me. Am I missing something?
Megalosaro
Banned
entremet
Member
I'm not following your logic.
It is surprising to me that they are fighting this and so sure of themselves that they did nothing wrong - with spygate, by your accounts, they admitted to it and accepted the punishment, here they are doing neither.
It makes you wonder if the McNally and JJ did really act without the knowledge or consent of Brady.
natjjohn
Member
OJ had a really good legal team.
LyleLanley
Banned
Another innocent man.
Okay this is pretty good haha!
entremet
Member
I'm inclined to believe that he and Kraft would not go to such lengths if there's even a legitimate possibility of a subpoena finding incriminating evidence.
Not saying he's innocent, but wouldn't bet against that fact.
Pats culture.
lazybones18
Banned
MLB on top of things as usual
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a0f...-mlb-pumps-ball-security-after-tom-brady-flap
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/4a0f...-mlb-pumps-ball-security-after-tom-brady-flap
LyleLanley
Banned
If there's a league that cares about the integrity of the game surely it's the MLB.
Unknown Soldier
Member
I miss Johnnie Cochran, he was one of the all-time great trial lawyers.
If you read the analysis closer, they do account for the conditional differences. Also, read through the footnotes; they explain that some of the values were switched because the gauges were switched, and that while the tables were left as is (for completeness); the actual analysis took this into account. They also calculated the actual (experimental) rate of delta pressure differential as a function of time and temperature, which is also part of their reasoning.
I will keep reiterating this; the science on this is unbelievably sound. Based on their assumptions - they are dead on. The end. These people know what they're doing. The biggest thing the Patriots have to go on is challenging Anderson on the initial readings and accusing him of missing both the Pats and the Colts balls by a large margin in opposing ways.
This, however, does nothing to account for McNally admittedly stealing the balls in between measurement and game time, nor the texts, nor calling himself the Deflator, nor Brady lying about not knowing McNally, nor each of them lying about reasons or even accusing the Colts of setting them up.
CitizenCope
Member
This is going to be fun!!
very interesting.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
rofl.
Funny enough I just read a screenplay about the OJ case and there is some pretty damning stuff that paints the prosecution in a bad light and kinda proves his innocence.
LyleLanley
Banned
Finally you see the light!
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
No way Hillary gets the nomination now.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
The dude wrote a book about how he did it............
not psycho
Member
The thing it doesn't cover is that the pre-game readings were not recorded and only 4 Colts balls were tested at halftime. Or I should say, it does cover it, but only to admit they assumed 13 for all the Colts balls. The entire thing is based on extremely vague statements like the Colts were probably going for 13... not recording of individual measurements, not recording of which gauge was used. The assumptions it makes are not justified.
Let's say the Patriots were hovering around 12.5 pre-game, and the Colts 4 balls were around 13.1. If they switched gauges (with a .38 difference), the true difference between Patriots and Colts is about .98, or 1 pre-game.
At halftime, Prioleau's average for the Patriots is 11.49, while his average for the Colts is 12.27 (eliminating ball 3). A difference of .78... so the Colts balls actually deflated more than the Patriots did from pre-game to halftime! Or maybe the officials are doing weird things again?
Let's assume they switched gauges again at halftime, so the difference becomes about 1.15. So the Patriots balls would have deflated more... if our original assumptions were correct. If the Colts 4 balls (the only ones tested) were at 13.25 pre-game, then they deflated the exact same amount as the Patriots.
You should be able to see the issue here. It's not the statistics or the science, it's using vague statements as though they are exact.
If Priloleau did NOT switch his gauge between Patriots and Colts at halftime, he actually shows the Colts deflated their balls and the Patriots didn't. But even if he did switch gauges, that only gives a difference of .15. So maybe the Patriots deflated their balls by .15... or maybe the Colts 4 balls were .15 higher than the vague assumption. Or maybe the difference is because the Patriots balls were measured first, and the Colts 4 balls (all they had time for) were measured only after rising in the higher temperatures.
At this point you may be thinking "the officials didn't do that weird stuff", but the evidence strongly suggests they did. They themselves indicated they used the high gauge for the Patriots pre-game. The investigators themselves claim that the low gauge never measured higher than the high gauge in all their tests, which means Priloleau probably switched gauges between measuring the Patriots and Colts. The odd behavior of the officials, combined with no recordings and only vague memories, is not enough evidence to say anything substantial.
LyleLanley
Banned
About IF he did it.
Poor Roger. Kraft is gonna cut his funding.
Rabbi_Vole
Banned
Did OJ play for the Pats?
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
if he did it, and it made a shit ton of money!
Anyways, lets get back on topic!
Brady is GOAT.
No concrete proof that he didn't.
I think he played for Baltimore.
LyleLanley
Banned
I don't know, I only started watching football once the Pats became good.
A true Patriot*
Remember the Patriots are hated because they're too white.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=27&v=EaLSX6y5ytE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=27&v=EaLSX6y5ytE
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Yea but he got really famous cause of the Broncos
LyleLanley
Banned
What's the big deal if I started watching football after the Pats won their fourth super bowl?
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