It's a terrible deal, but it includes more cosmetics than bungies 20 dollar DLC in addition to the maps. If you think that's a terrible deal and this isn't....
Bungie apologizes for Taken King controversy, CE items to be sold separate
- Thread starter LiK
- Start date
It's a terrible deal, but it includes more cosmetics than bungies 20 dollar DLC in addition to the maps. If you think that's a terrible deal and this isn't....
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Exactly. The populace that supports these actions in which publishers are doing, thinks they are "choosing" when truthfully they are being manipulated carefully through marketing drawn from these very experiments human and non.
Addicts for example (whether drugs, gambling, or bad collecting habits), always say it is something they choose to do.
IXIKelsonIXI
Member
Whoa....
And here I was thinking I just liked playing a video game.
Breakfast at Noon
Member
You do, e erything for these huys is a conspiracy theory when it comes to destiny, because there is in no way what so ever we can enjoy it and they cant.
NullPointer
Member
Both sides can be and are true here. Destiny is a very fun game thats also based upon very finely tuned compulsion loops and player investment systems. You see this stuff in a great many games - but something about Destiny seems to sink its hooks deeper than many others and can lead to a lot of angry quitting and rage posts. Its just another fascinating Destiny phenomenon.
Everything about this game should be studied and published in some kind of tell-all book.
benicillin
Banned
I am so tired of both of these arguments. I'm totally fine with people who don't like Destiny - I don't like a lot of things too - but it's exhausting and frankly kind of ridiculous that there are those who think people who enjoy the game are being tricked, manipulated, etc etc. No guys, we just like playing the fucking game. So leave it at that.
SolicitorPirate
Member
Didn't Bungie hire a doctor who's study focused on addiction, or am I talking out of my ass?
These same ridiculously dismissive arguments can be used against video games in general - after all, our hobby consists of occupying fantasy worlds designed to reward us with every possible kind of neurological stimulation.
While it's neat that you know what a Skinner box is, and also neat you apparently finished your amateur neuroscience degree, it would be more neat if you took the extra five minutes to acknowledge that you might be overlooking the equally plausible alternative that maybe Destiny has more than one thing going for it and touches on something people like beyond base stimulation.
Its hard to accept a spectrum between "everyone is absolutely addicted" and "everyone is not addicted", I know, but it's certainly the grown up thing to try.
One of the lead designers wrote a thesis on reward systems that keep people playing. This is fairly typical of high profile game studios, and only one aspect of a game made up of hundreds of different people who worked on different things.
Valve hired a crazy smart economist to study how and why their market works. The cynical thing to do would be to just assume they just want more of your money, when the reality is there's a heck of an opportunity there to learn.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Marketing and practices which are tied into manipulation and controlled experiments are not conspiracy theories.
These are well documented and admitted not only by the governments, but top corporations alike.
This is not an argument of enjoyment, but go ahead and display some cognitive dissonance. Google "Father of PR (Marketing)" which most highly successful corporations adopt...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Bernays
Just because we think this practice is shady, and anti-consumer, does not mean we do not enjoy said game. Kick rocks with that spin.
Again, from one extreme to another. Where did I ever say, I encourage your to search, that I said I never enjoyed the game?
I can clearly point out with a wealth of evidence that marketing can shape one's opinions and make one think they find value in something (i.e. this BS DLC pricing) that truthfully if they did not buy into it, would normally not think there was value.
If marketing did not manipulate certain demographics, companies would not dump billions into it.
Just about every aspect of Western culture is influenced in some degree by marketing. And? It's not like Destiny is the first or last link in that chain.
Destiny just went nearly an entire year without any microtransactions. The vanity stuff this thread is discussing was a bonus from the collectors edition people demanded the option to purchase separately. How many games can claim that?
I believe there are plenty of people who enjoy Destiny who aren't addicted to it. But I think there are several clear signs that Destiny was designed to appeal to what makes us addicted to things in a less healthier fashion. Lots of games do this. It is a part of entertainment. I suppose Destiny just feels like it does it a lot more directly and without shame.
Based on what you say, Im guessing you havent bought any Next gen console right?
Its weird how Destiny is designed like that but they don't bother to have microtransactions to skip some of the monotony like F2P games do.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I am not disputing Destiny's enjoyment, I am also aware this will never go away, I am just providing some perspective where some may think they are freely choosing some times, when in reality some are actually just marketed to think that way.
A perfect example. These companies know people will spend good money on monotonous (hell not even physical) things, all the while being cheap on what they poison (fast food dollar menu and DewRitos) their only body with.
Then when their chest is cracked like a lobster with a triple bypass, or diabetic/cancer, most say at that point, "what the hell was I thinking?" They did the thinking for you, until you had that epiphany.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
If you want to add some hyperbole then sure. I can tell you however, as I get older and more aware of what I listen to an watch, I game far less than I ever had, spend virtually zero on micro transactions and senseless DLC, and hell, I do not even buy most games at launch anymore, since I clearly see the drop off in prices fairly quickly.
I am not saying this effects everyone, cause clearly it does not, I am just relating it to those who cannot explain why they buy the stuff. And there has been a lot of people in here who cannot explain it.
But Destiny is so fun is not the answer, because I agree that is is very fun, but can say $20 for shaders/emotes is hilarious (lets be honest, the guns will be deconstructed). It goes beyond that.
The mere fact that Deej mentioned eBay, shows the marketing narrative they are going with.
Exactly.
Anton Sugar
Member
How are the cosmetic CE items a "bonus" when they are a part of the cost?
But, based on what you have said, these people that are victim of marketing techniques are not aware of this, how do you know you aren't a victim as well? by buying a next gen console arent you also maybe buying something you dont really need but marketing have programmed you to think this way? have you ever think about that companies also calculate people that have purchasing behavior as yourself, so you are not really beating the system, as you think you are?
It is true that Marketing is made to convince people to get things they dont have and in some cases dont need, but is how the world works and is not some sort of Matrix level conspiracy where some lucky few are aware they are inside the Matrix.
Yes 20 dollars for Shaders is a gross pricepoint, but Your post and the other guy/girl post is an exaggeration on the people who happen to like Destiny.
Yea ur fucked. Same here
NullPointer
Member
Yes, it is. And this is how they work.
Its not a conspiracy and doesn't mean that people who enjoy it are dupes (or it does and I join you all in dupehood). Destiny would be a great time even without the levels and loot and the dailies and the rewards, but all that other stuff is there for a reason.
Listen to Luke talk about the game in interviews and podcasts and he's well aware of these systems and many of their pros and cons.
Vanilla Destiny is not a game worth owning.
the game is fun for some people
I dunno why this is so hard to understand and it's not some experiment because you could argue that any game is a construct centered around pleasing responses
also I genuinely enjoy a lot of the content in the game
That said I hate the pricing on the new dlc and the extras
This isn't unreasonable it's the truth and I'd do some research into other games like you know, Everquest and other games that had people committing suicide and mothers attempting to sue due to addictive nature of the game
that's fine to incur monthly fees for an addicting game and charging for expansions but one time fees are apparently the worst thing ever
destiny is really fun with other people and that's about it
Holy moly you're a doofus
It's a video game, man
There's no conspiracy here, just some cynical marketing and games designed to hook the players.
If you don't think this is how it works you're extremely naive.
This doesn't change the fact we do get some incredibly fun games out of it.
Exactly.
Dylan Sexbang
Banned
My biggest issue with the collectors edition, is that I'm not getting expansions 4 and 5 with it as well. For $90, I got the digital guardian edition and that gave me the base game and DLC 1 and 2. Now, for DLC 3 they want $40 when I didn't even pay that for TDB or HoW? If I wasn't getting the physical CE, I wouldn't even give the collectors stuff a second thought.
I mean, unless this is a way to cover server costs or the frequent patches that they issue- which could be a possibility right? Isn't all of the PvE content on dedis? But even to that front the PvP is an absolute lagfest at times and my money should be going to fix that as well.
The question is, is the money going to fix issues and support the game? Or just for the sake of getting money?
I mean, unless this is a way to cover server costs or the frequent patches that they issue- which could be a possibility right? Isn't all of the PvE content on dedis? But even to that front the PvP is an absolute lagfest at times and my money should be going to fix that as well.
The question is, is the money going to fix issues and support the game? Or just for the sake of getting money?
Anton Sugar
Member
I'm lol'ing at the thought that publishers (and devs) DON'T do market and/psych research to determine what will bring customers back, how to design an addicting game, etc.
C'mon, son.
C'mon, son.
RadicalVelocity
Member
DLC 3 is and always has been different from DLC 1,2,4, and 5. It's the only one that might warrant being called an expansion at all, and so it is not priced the same.
Still, the collector's edition should have been indeed packaged with the next two DLC. That way, you get vanilla + 2 dlc with one box, TTK + 2 dlc with another.
But they need to equalize players at some point, and that means making sure that a player with TTK has the base game and first season of dlc, to minimize issues.
And on the other hand, one could argue it's better they don't presell those two, after the terrible value of the first 'season'. They gotta earn trust back. I know I'm not the only one who felt ripped off, and HoW is the closest to justifying its cost of the first 3 destiny products released.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Holy moly you're a doofus
It's a video game, man
Here is some light reading for you....
http://www.simplypsychology.org/cognitive-dissonance.html
Exactly, and thanks for that link NullPointer, forgot all about that article.
For the record before more posts about "but Destiny is fun"... the science and articles we are posting are proving it is fun, that is not what we are disputing here. We are disputing as to why some feel the need to buy overpriced shit cause we think it is needed to be a part of the fun. I just, I just can't miss out on that. I have been guilty of it in the past.
Basically if Activision wins, we are going to get less content for more, and this Destiny experiment is proving such.
Majority of us consumers speaking out have already said if the price was more reasonable, we would not be voicing displeasure.
I go back to Deej's comment again when he through in eBay. They know they are creating this demand, so he is preparing us for overpriced shit (like the eBay blacksmith shader). They can easily kill that market by releasing the shader as a quest item or give them out to everyone, but they will not, because that $80-$100 shader makes their narrative look better. That is the ONLY reason he mentioned eBay.
Well put, I completely agree with you.
EatinOlives
Member
Typical negotiation tactics.
Make your first offer outrageous and stupid. Then your second offer when you "admit" a mea culpa is still pretty damn high, but next to the first offer it's a much better "deal", so the other person takes it thinking they haggled successfully.
People are being had by paying $20 for such little content, but it's Destiny. I think Bungie by now has learned they can charge anything for any amount of cash and people will buy it.
Make your first offer outrageous and stupid. Then your second offer when you "admit" a mea culpa is still pretty damn high, but next to the first offer it's a much better "deal", so the other person takes it thinking they haggled successfully.
People are being had by paying $20 for such little content, but it's Destiny. I think Bungie by now has learned they can charge anything for any amount of cash and people will buy it.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
The weekly update is out and.....
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=13096
No mention of pricing 1:1 Ratio.
No mention of the whole fiasco.
No mention of nothing.
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=13096
No mention of pricing 1:1 Ratio.
No mention of the whole fiasco.
No mention of nothing.
The weekly update is out and.....
Hey UK players, you know how you were waiting for any news on whether or not you were gonna continue to get ripped off? Well now you can set a status on your Bungie.net profile!
Sigh.
The weekly update is out and.....
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=13096
No mention of pricing 1:1 Ratio.
No mention of the whole fiasco.
No mention of nothing.
Well, to be fair this is your typical Bungie during the Halo 3, Halo Reach years.
They split off the part that addressed it and released it yesterday, and said the "usual" part of the update would hit today. I don't know why you calibrated your expectations for something new on this front today, but Bungie did not set them there.The weekly update is out and.....
https://www.bungie.net/en/News/News?aid=13096
No mention of pricing 1:1 Ratio.
No mention of the whole fiasco.
No mention of nothing.
KillerSloth
Banned
YEah some of these posts are over board. Most enjoying Destiny are not stupid, Addicts, lab rats, weak minded, easily manipulated....
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
I refuse to pay (£40) $62 just for The Taken King.
I feel let down by this whole mess, especially since it seems Bungie refuses to even acknowledge the pricing issue outside of the US.
I'd rather not walk away, but it seems inevitable. The air has a bad smell to it. This is not the Bungie I once respected and admired.
I feel let down by this whole mess, especially since it seems Bungie refuses to even acknowledge the pricing issue outside of the US.
I'd rather not walk away, but it seems inevitable. The air has a bad smell to it. This is not the Bungie I once respected and admired.
Crimson Kopite
Banned
You're so brave.
It's one thing if you paid the money and they didn't deliver the content but like what if you paid a whole bunch of money and they delivered nothing at all?
Pathfinder
Member
nvm.
KillerSloth
Banned
?? I didn't insult anyone? What are you even talking about? You can ignore me and stop following me around the forums please?
Pathfinder
Member
No one's following you around. You're not that special.
KillerSloth
Banned
You are, and I ask again how did I insult anyone? AH nice edit lol, jumped the gun did we.
Pathfinder
Member
I apologize, that was my fault. I didn't read far enough back. Comment retracted.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Because they are still in denial that there is a problem. In their eyes, they believe that they fixed the issues yesterday and everything is now unicorns and rainbows.
That could not be further from the truth.
They heard that they could make more money. They reacted to that.
They didn't react to the legitimate issues that people are being vocal about, primarily 1:1 price conversion.
BeforeU
Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
fascinating stuff. did not know.
NecromorphTX
Member
Lmao, worst apology ever.