Fighting Games Weekly | July 13-19 | Stream Monster Yearly: Evolution 2015
- Thread starter enzo_gt
- Start date
Are people actually reading Shocking Alberto's post? lol.
It's not SFXTK's fault. It's Capcom's fault.
SFXTK could have been such a good game but the policies they (being Capcom suits) adopted are what really killed that game and canned the other two projects. SFXTK got hurt just as much by corporate meddling as did the planned new Darkstalkers and Capcom All Stars. It was a dead on arrival game and everyone just moved back to SFIV.
It's not SFXTK's fault. It's Capcom's fault.
SFXTK could have been such a good game but the policies they (being Capcom suits) adopted are what really killed that game and canned the other two projects. SFXTK got hurt just as much by corporate meddling as did the planned new Darkstalkers and Capcom All Stars. It was a dead on arrival game and everyone just moved back to SFIV.
Flying High
Member
SFxT now is a good game, what killed it was the first version being very bad by having numerous glitches, many games going to time out because how fast the clock is and how low the damage output was, PLUS the on disc DLC for 12 characters that you have to pay to unlock, pay to win gems, and the brokeness of the DLC gems that made it almost impossible to beat them if they were using them, AND the inability to come back in vanilla SFxT.
Look at this brokeness in DLC GEMS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_QEZ2VM7ws
Also alot of the Tekken characters being outclass by Street Fighter characters, SFxT v.2013 fixed many things to be a good game, but because of how bad the vanilla version of the game was, it make it poison to even say you like the game at the time, because people remember SFxT = Shit.
The Lone Dragon
Member
Lol, after UmVC3 released 9 months post MvC3, no one was getting anything.
Can't blame that on SFxT. UMvC3 came out first.
EDIT: And, yes, SFxT is actually a very good game now. 2013 patch was awesome.
Karsticles
Member
SFxT hurt Marvel. It cannot be forgiven.
I read the post; I'm not unaware that games aren't made by themselves. That doesn't make the product, and the effects it had on fighting games, any less revolting. How often can one title fuck over three different games?
Actually, you can. They couldn't release UMvC3 later and give it more time in the oven because SFxTK was blotting out a big part of the release schedule. Combined with Marvel's own release schedule and their contract winding down they had "no choice" but to release it then.
Nothing is wholly responsible one place or another, take the undercurrent of terrible decision making from Capcom at the time, but SFxTK had its hand in perhaps the most gaffes.
Karsticles
Member
Ah, you must not be aware. When Niitsuma was approached about making UMvC3, he wanted to release the update ~1 year after the original. However, this would have put it in the same release period as SFxT. Capcom executives were worried about the games cannibalizing each other. Additionally, Niitsuma couldn't release UMvC3 significantly after SFxT, because Capcom was going to lose the license. As such, the only viable option from Capcom's perspective was to release UMvC3 after 9 months. Niitsuma requested additional time to release the game around SFxT and add another 8 characters in, but he was denied the request due to potential cannibalism.
So yes, SFxT fucked over Marvel, too. 8 more characters, and who knows what else.
Seriously. It's like the suits thought that Darkstalkers was gonna sell like gangbusters by giving ports of old games and using that as a barometer. Not to mention the debaticle revolving around SFxT.
And profound sadness at the potential Capcom Fighters not being green-lit. V_V
.la1n
Member
Oh it's not the ideal scenario to be certain but I'd take that over no Capcom All Stars at all.
In an alternate universe, Capcom could have released a Capcom all stars game in place of SFXTK with the exact same policies of on-disc dlc, pay to win gems, and useless modes like pandora and that game probably would have bombed even harder leading in direct result to the cancellation of other fighting games.
In that case as well, I would be putting the blame on Capcom's terrible corporate policies and not on the game, which is actually good under the surface.
No matter which game you replace SFXTK with, whether it's Darkstalkers or whatever else, the policies are leading to the actual cause and effect. Not the game. SFXTK isn't trash. It's actually very fun to play and there's no need to be salty over its existence.
Karsticles
Member
Like I said, the game has been trash since the day it was revealed. It if was a good game, then it would just be an unfortunate series of events. It was awful on release, though, and got dropped hard for gameplay reasons. Bad DLC practices don't kill amazing games. Plenty of other titles, including fighters, have proven that.
If UMvC3X released with SFxT DLC policies, I 100% promise you that it would be adored by its target community. There would be grumbling, but it would be played and beloved. I think UMvC3X is a better example than Capcom Fighters because I think Capcom Fighters is shaky, honestly. I would absolutely adore it, but would the general gaming public? I don't know.
SolarPowered
Member
I only feel for Capcom vs Capcom. If any Capcom fighter needs to exist, it's that one for sure. Even a roster of 40 is already GOAT tier if it is Capcom exclusive. Replacing old movesets shouldn't be too hard if Capcom dug deep into their history and adapted movesets appropriately.
I think SFV will do amazingly well and we'll see CvC sooner than we think.
I hated SFxT and don't even care about it now, but suits killed it dead.
I think SFV will do amazingly well and we'll see CvC sooner than we think.
This guy gets it.
I hated SFxT and don't even care about it now, but suits killed it dead.
The game was trash and undercooked when it released. They had mechanics that existed but they didn't have a purpose for and scrambled to make something out of pre-release. I'm not sure how this theoretical even matters, because that game was SFxTK, and it's release was prioritized over the quality of both titles. Ultimately that decision was made for that game by some individuals but the point is that decision centered around SFxTK.
I'm not sure why people keep reiterating it was a Capcom management problem. I mean, obviously?
crimsonspider89
Banned
If they would of released UMvC3 in SFxT original slot and pushed SFxT back so they could of tested more and we would of gotten the first patch which made SFxT a much better game, both would of benefitted.
And then we could of gotten Darkstalkers.
And then we could of gotten Darkstalkers.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
SFxT had to bomb like it did so Capcom wouldn't dare pull the same shit in SFV
SFxT(and UMvC3/CvC/Darkstalkers) died so that SFV may live #blessed
SFxT(and UMvC3/CvC/Darkstalkers) died so that SFV may live #blessed
lol, good luck with that.
To my knowledge, no other fighting game has had a DLC policy as bad a SFXTK. To actually keep your fans from enjoying characters that are right on the disc for 6 months is a feat I haven't any other fighting game accomplish. And then the whole pay-to-win model they were trying to get going with gems. Yeah, I don't think anyone would appreciate gems in MvC3.
Do you really think adding gems in MvC3 would have no impact whatsoever on people's love or enjoyment of the game? You can have fun with that. Your "100% promise" is gonna fall flat on your face, though.
SFXTK had some issues at release, sure but they fixed it overtime. Even then, I had a lot of fun with pair play and the dev team did a tremendously awesome job transitioning Tekken characters into the 2D playing field. Have you even played SFXTK? Serious question.
Pandora was an undercooked mechanic. We know that. Gems did not need to be added. We know that. But why do you think gems were added? It was a money scheme by Capcom suits. But the core gameplay system had a lot of potential that is unfortunately wasted now because the game is dead.
I'll ask you the same thing I asked Karsticles. How much SFXTK did you even play?
Karsticles
Member
Everyone would have been happy.
I am rarely pleased with the gaming community, but the shitstorms over SFxT and Xbone on reveal are two moments I am happy about.
SFV needs to succeed so ComboFiend can talk to Sony about UMvC4. ;-)
SFxT community ignored gems. Marvel community probably would have done the same. /shrug
Yes, I have played SFxT. Not that you really care. I know how you "argue".
crimsonspider89
Banned
I tried to play SFxT when it first came out, couldn't do it.
Game was too slow and way too many glitches.
The update made it ten times as good but that is where the problem lies.
IF SFxT patched would of been the one we got, it would still be played.
So if they would of released UMvC3 at SFxT's slot and released SFxT later, both games would of benefitted.
commanderpepper
Member
Capcom learned from their mistakes. Anyone remember that sound bug when SFxT came out. Now they realize a beta can help make SFV a better game.
SFxT was a good idea marred by corporate bungling, on disk DLC, and ugly art design. Hopefully TxSF learned some valuable lessons.
Driving to The Break was a pain, but I'm glad that I was able to be there live for a good amount of that golden era of MVC3. Watching CM over the weekend reminded me of those moments. It was a magical time until it all fell apart.
Driving to The Break was a pain, but I'm glad that I was able to be there live for a good amount of that golden era of MVC3. Watching CM over the weekend reminded me of those moments. It was a magical time until it all fell apart.
direct_quote
Member
Or SF5, DMC5, and RE7 tank and then Disney buys Capcom. Then we get MvC4.
Shouta
Member
A lot of that is corporate meddling as I said.
Damage output being low in Vanilla SFxT is somewhat of myth btw. The problem was that everyone was still new to the game and playing it like SF4 meaning they were prorating damage by adding jabs and stuff to the front of their combos or using the ABC system and reducing their overall damage. The fancy combos you see in 2013 were what they expected with Vanilla and probably a part of the reason why the health regen was so fast. They expected you to be doing 50% damage combos in the game when everyone was doing 20-30%. For reference, most of the combos my main team, Law-Kuma, from 2013 actually work in Vanilla SFxT and do pretty much the same damage. Jab confirms are the bane of every fighting game.
Character balance was a bit wonky though yeah. They just kind of buffed the Tekken cast a bit too much though. Fuck Hwoarang. >=|
That timer also still feels way too fast too. It seems longer in USF4.
SolarPowered
Member
SFxT is probably the main reason TxSF still hasn't come out yet. Trying to ignore it is like trying to ignore a pink horse standing in your driveway.
Even if the patch is what we got on release date, the game still wouldn't be as popular because corporate policies killed it. To completely ignore pandora, gems, and DLC issues as if they don't matter in determining the game's healthy future and focusing only on a patch that "fixed" the game is kind of......not really the case.
Look at UMvC3 and how broken some of the characters are. That game is still played and popular but it didn't have any of the SFXTK corporate shenanigans going on with it so it survived.
You can't ignore gems. They're required. lol. Maybe everyone used the same gem layout but that still doesn't cover the fact that people online will be using gems of their liking however they wish.
One thing I didn't get about sfxt was their combination of magical series style chains and sf4 style links from light buttons to heavier ones. Both these systems used the same buttons in a similar order. What a weird decision that shit was so messy.
I guess vsav does the same thing but it doesn't feel as cluttered cuz links often come after renda from multiple light attacks instead.
I guess vsav does the same thing but it doesn't feel as cluttered cuz links often come after renda from multiple light attacks instead.
Professor Beef
Banned
Which version? Because the Urban Assault Vehicle version is still one of the GOATs.
Never forget: "Tupac is a pussy."
SFxT looked fun as fuck, but as everyone here has already told you, corporate meddling is to blame, not the game itself. I think if it released now, with a similar gem system to Smash 4's custom move project, could be way better. Gems were never the problem; the DLC shenanigans were.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Cause UMvC3 didn't have any one button infinites non XF.
It was how shit vanilla SFxT plus the policies that killed it.
Not one. But both.
Karsticles
Member
Goddamn, you really think people play UMvC3 still because good corporate policies behind it, and SFxT would have gotten the same treatment otherwise? Hahaha. Man, this is why I don't bother arguing with you. Hahahaha.
Clockwork said it best: only one thing determines whether a fighting game has legs, and that is whether it is fun to play.
I've already said, in three posts now, that no game makes itself, and SFxT obviously doesn't exist in a vacuum. However, it's usually pretty acceptable to refer to the most immediate event as the catalyst for the effects that proceed from it. For example, people say "Oh man, Spider-man 3 was so terrible - it ruined the franchise". People usually don't go look up the writer/director and talk about their decision-making. The product is a fine reference point. Also, I maintain that SFxT would have done fine despite corporate meddling if it were a good game.
It looked fun to a lot of people. Then it turned out not to be fun. The game died. The end.
Smash customs/equipment are a good parallel. The community is deciding whether they want to deal with this shit right now, but the game isn't dying. Gems, on their own, don't have the ability to kill SFxT. The community can just decide on one standard and go from there. That would require people to like the game en masse, though.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
So many dead games on blast right now
A lot of fighting games are broken as shit on release date and fixed over time. Unless the game goes through an arcade model refining process such as the Tekken series, it's expected there are going to be glitches and issues and infinites. That's why there are patches.
You can keep that as your personal opinion. It was flawed but it was still fun.
Shouta
Member
Yeah, that magic series was messy but was included to give the Street Fighter folks the ability to switch members easier as most didn't have chains like the Tekken team. unfortunately, there were execution issues and of course it prorated damage badly.
That's part of the reason why I'm glad SFV is moving away from jab confirms being a thing. It kills damage so bad in SF4 an SFxT. =(
The Lone Dragon
Member
And, this is SFxT's fault how exactly?
Both games were announced in 2010. SFxT wasn't exactly a surprise that snuck up on anybody by the time it was released in 2012. Both games were well publicized. Both games are from the SAME COMPANY. Of course you wouldn't want to release them both at the same time.
If you know a license is going to expire on a certain date, then you should plan around it, YEARS in advance. Don't blame SFxT out of salt. Again, it's bad executive planning at fault.
I have a question. Is there some reason we're putting so much stock in that persons post? Legit question. Is he known to be someone who would have some sort of inside information. Because it seems e,s to just be the same rumour and speculation that everyone has always sort of assumed.
This is the most self-serving BS I've seen in this thread so far. There's far more to a community thriving or dying than just the game being fun. It does matter, but it's hardly the only thing that matters. The way SFxT launched and how the game was handled absolutely hurt it chances, no matter how good or bad the game was both at launch and after being patched.
crimsonspider89
Banned
Yes but none so bad as the infinites or the fact cinematics consumed the timer or the skewed health regeneration.
Things that proper testing would of said, oh shit that is bad.
Hell, the TAC infinite in Marvel is bad but nowhere near bad as one button infinites.
With the way damage scaling and health regeneration worked led to very boring games.
And people complain about Morridoom in Mahvel. At least it kills people..
You're usually the one getting in arguments with a lot of people here all the time. And that's a good way to twist what I said. I didn't say people play MvC3 because it has good corporate policies behind it. I said people would stop playing it if it's own gameplay mechanics became pay-to-win gem models. That's two different things. You're a funny man with the way you interpret things.
#1. You couldn't find me a fighting game that had worse DLC and corporate policies than SFXTK.
#2. SFXTK is fun to play. Others here will agree with that too. Your opinion isn't universal consensus.
Which one-button infinite do you keep talking about? I don't know of any one-button infinite in SFXTK.
Karsticles
Member
#1 thing that matters. No doubt. If you wake up every day and think "I can't wait to play this game", other issues are marginalized. At some point, most games lose that feeling. Some games lose it after 10 years. Some lose it after a month. Some games, like Melee, make me wonder if they might never lose it...
Legs don't walk forever. ;-)
Read my previous post.
ShockingAlberto? Well known insider that has yet to be wrong.
Haha. Okay Sayah.
As sad as this makes me, I agree. It probably made other developers take notice on what not to do with their fighters, too. Well, in some ways.
I never understood people saying damage was low in SFxT vanilla, I was doing 50%+ off any hit for a bar.
Time outs happened because the way people were confirming and the way neutral was absolutely fucked with how good some options were.
This. If fun was all that mattered to all of you, you'd all be playing Yata right now.
Time outs happened because the way people were confirming and the way neutral was absolutely fucked with how good some options were.
This. If fun was all that mattered to all of you, you'd all be playing Yata right now.
He got a PM from Bish. I don't if he's been banned. If he hasn't, there might be some validity to what he said. All he said though was please be patient or something like that. Marvel is interested in fighting games, Enzo posted up a fetish post detailing how the animated shows reference the series time and time again. The relationship is there and there is probably talks happening all the time between them. Remember, Capcom works on multiple games at a time and I'm pretty sure we're going to get a new versus or something with the same design of a versus game.
Shouta
Member
Yep, it's because people never bothered to investigate the game for themselves. Lots of folks complained about damage scaling but it's actually the same one as in SF4 and you could produce crazy damage using it.
Karsticles
Member
Dude, arguing with you is always a joke. Usually I don't bite, but for some reason I felt differently today. If you want to feel like you "won" an argument, go for it. I don't care. I'll continue responding to other posters on the subject, just not yours. It feels like I'm talking to a door-to-door evangelical when you decide someone is saying something unpleasant about anything relating to Tekken.
There were no pre-planned characters. Niitsuma basically said that he wanted 20 more so that he could beat MvC2's roster, but he only had time for 12. When asked who he had to cut, Niitsuma said it wasn't that kind of decision. Early on he asked for time to make 20, he was given time for 12, so he figured out 12. There's no cut list.
I would love Nightcrawlers in Marvel, though. Favorite member of the X-Men next to Storm.
A lot of games have Day 1 infinites. I think QisTopTier here discovered one with Viola in SCV. I'm sure Netherrealm games have a bunch of them until the company decides to do an ongoing session of patches. But those games don't have the atrocious DLC policies that SFXTK did.
You still didn't answer whether you even played SFXTK or not.
It's not about winning an argument. It's about you not having any good retort to what I laid out. I even made a numbered list for you. Plus, you rearranged what I said to make it mean something else entirely. I made that clear to you as well. Instead of responding to that, you decide to attack me personally when you have nothing else left to say. That's typical Karsticles style.
SquirrelSoup
Member
I enjoyed timing out people in SFxT. I liked that the timer wasn't just there to be irrelevant in 99% of matches like in other games.
Timers in fighting games are not designed to be a gameplay "goal". It should be mostly irrelevant, only showing up to add pressure in the last moments of a drawn-out battle with a bunch of traded blows.
It's a fighting game after all. Characters need to fight!