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[Toa TAK]

When are the reviews dropping? Bit dissapointed if this sucks again, not been a very good run for CBM's this year. Does anyone have any good word on the soundtrack?

Soundtrack is mostly generic, and the reviews drop tomorrow at 6pm PST.

 

[Neoxon]

That's the problem, though. The Incredibles is a cartoon (so the cheeseball factor is much easier to pull off) and FF is live action. The Incredibles exists as a riff on FF. If it just *was* FF, it would have less pathos and depth to it, because unlike, say, Spider-Man, FF is generally an (antiquated) premise with less inherent depth to it. In the sense that people can tell wonderful, fun, compelling stories about the FF as a family, but it's tough to pull off the conflict when the only real internal conflict is about Ben's appearance and Reed trying to fix it. There's not a lot of pathos to engage in with the other character dynamics, at least not if you want to stick with the source material. And it's hard not to have it be too cheesy when live action with such an earnest and generally happy premise and group of characters. They get the powers. One feels understandably awful about his appearance. The group is functional and happy. It's not an easy thing to adapt.

But the other Fantastic Four stories are about a tight-knit group exploring the unknown, discovering shit that has previously been undiscovered by the rest of the Marvel Universe. The F4 pioneered the discovery of the Inhumans, the Kree, the Skrulls, Subterranea, etc. That's the kind of F4 that needs to be done.

When are the reviews dropping? Bit dissapointed if this sucks again, not been a very good run for CBM's this year. Does anyone have any good word on the soundtrack?

They drop tomorrow night. As for this year, AoU was not bad & Ant-Man delivered in a way that caught me by surprise. As for the soundtrack, it's mostly generic & obvious to tell who composed what.

 

[Messypandas]

Soundtrack is mostly generic, and the reviews drop tomorrow at 6pm PST.

Fuuuuuuuuu. No Philip no!

 

[maxcriden]

But the other Fantastic Four stories are about a tight-knit group exploring the unknown, discovering shit that has previously been undiscovered by the rest of the Marvel Universe. The F4 pioneered the discovery of the Inhumans, the Kree, the Skrulls, Subterranea, etc. That's the kind of F4 that needs to be done.

Yeah, but unless it's about the characters and how they interact it's not really that "true" to the FF. The core of the best FF stories always had to do with how the team responded amongst themselves to different situations (and usually any interesting drama around this involved Ben). So you can really have any group encountering the fascinating or villainous unknown. There's more to FF than that, but it's hard to pull off on paper or screen.

 

[Toa TAK]

Fuuuuuuuuu. No Philip no!

Don't feel bad, the tracks he actually touched are good, but everyone seemed to forget that MARCO BELTRAMI is also part of the score.

Bleh.

 

[Messypandas]

Don't feel bad, the tracks he actually touched are good, but everyone seemed to forget that MARCO BELTRAMI is also part of the score.

Bleh.

Ah right. Looking through his filmography is definitely not very inspiring.

 

[Tobor]

That's the problem, though. The Incredibles is a cartoon (so the cheeseball factor is much easier to pull off) and FF is live action. The Incredibles exists as a riff on FF. If it just *was* FF, it would have less pathos and depth to it, because unlike, say, Spider-Man, FF is generally an (antiquated) premise with less inherent depth to it. In the sense that people can tell wonderful, fun, compelling stories about the FF as a family, but it's tough to pull off the conflict when the only real internal conflict is about Ben's appearance and Reed trying to fix it. There's not a lot of pathos to engage in with the other character dynamics, at least not if you want to stick with the source material. And it's hard not to have it be too cheesy when live action with such an earnest and generally happy premise and group of characters. They get the powers. One feels understandably awful about his appearance. The group is functional and happy. It's not an easy thing to adapt.

In a post Guardians of the Galaxy world, I don't buy your premise at all. Audiences are primed and ready for what would have seemed unsellable a few years ago.

I also disagree that there is no conflict beyond Ben being made of rock. This is a family, and there is an ocean of potential for any family to provide conflict.

 

[Blader]

Isn't that Mark millar's job at Fox?

http://screenrant.com/x-men-fantastic-four-movies-fox-mark-millar/

It was until they changed the locks to all the doors and stopped taking his calls.

 

[maxcriden]

In a post Guardians of the Galaxy world, I don't buy your premise at all. Audiences are primed and ready for what would have seemed unsellable a few years ago.

I also disagree that there is no conflict beyond Ben being made of rock. This is a family, and there is an ocean of potential for any family to provide conflict.

I think we're fundamentally talking about a couple different things. Yes, audiences are eager for space operas. GOTG was not a family movie, though (IMO, and I realize this isn't a popular opinion) and regardless FF is a movie about family. Of course there is tons of potential for conflict in any family. But you spoke I think of a more traditional adaptation in FF, and I read FF comics for years and years, up through 2010 or so, and there was rarely much interesting familial conflict. The family usually gets along pretty well. So if you want a straight FF adaptation that's true to the comics that's going to be heavy on earnest happy-go-lucky-ness and low on familial conflict.

I'm all for an FF that has realistic cosmic threats and familial drama. I think that's probably more adaptable for wide audiences. And I think that's what they were going for with this movie and franchise reboot, even if it turns out they failed.

 

[Neoxon]

I think we're fundamentally talking about a couple different things. Yes, audiences are eager for space operas. GOTG was not a family movie, though (IMO, and I realize this isn't a popular opinion) and regardless FF is a movie about family. Of course there is tons of potential for conflict in any family. But you spoke I think of a more traditional adaptation in FF, and I read FF comics for years and years, up through 2010 or so, and there was rarely much interesting familial conflict. The family usually gets along pretty well. So if you want a straight FF adaptation that's true to the comics that's going to be heavy on earnest happy-go-lucky-ness and low on familial conflict.

I'm all for an FF that has realistic cosmic threats and familial drama. I think that's probably more adaptable for wide audiences. And I think that's what they were going for with this movie and franchise reboot, even if it turns out they failed.

I think he's referring more to the idea that Guardians of the Galaxy proved that the general audience is ready for stuff that would once be considered too out-there.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Nah. It's an adaptation. He could have told an FF story in the vein of Ultimate FF or an Elseworlds kinda tale with the same core and heart to it that is inherent to the FF. I don't know if anyone would complain about an Unstable Molecules adaptation. I mean. I guess tons of people would complain. But it would probably be a very well reviewed film.

Wow, thanks for reminding me about this comic ! I really fell in love with it the first time I read it years ago but I had completely forgotten about it. And it looks like it's available on Digital Comics Unlimited so I'll be reading it again tonight !

 

[E the Shaggy]

Isn't that Mark millar's job at Fox?

http://screenrant.com/x-men-fantastic-four-movies-fox-mark-millar/

To be fair, this new FF basically seems like a cut and paste job of his Ultimate Fantastic Four run, which was pretty humorless and miserable to begin with.

 

[Pai Pai Master]

That's the problem, though. The Incredibles is a cartoon (so the cheeseball factor is much easier to pull off) and FF is live action. The Incredibles exists as a riff on FF. If it just *was* FF, it would have less pathos and depth to it, because unlike, say, Spider-Man, FF is generally an (antiquated) premise with less inherent depth to it. In the sense that people can tell wonderful, fun, compelling stories about the FF as a family, but it's tough to pull off the conflict when the only real internal conflict is about Ben's appearance and Reed trying to fix it. There's not a lot of pathos to engage in with the other character dynamics, at least not if you want to stick with the source material. And it's hard not to have it be too cheesy when live action with such an earnest and generally happy premise and group of characters. They get the powers. One feels understandably awful about his appearance. The group is functional and happy. It's not an easy thing to adapt.

Sorry but your understanding of FF is what is dated, not the concept itself. Sounds like you haven't read any of the recent runs (which would be a shame because they're great!).

The internal conflicts don't only come from them having powers and Ben being the only one that looks fucked up. Everything that Hickman and other writers have explored with Reed being just on the edge of going too far and having to take a look at what keeps him grounded (his family) would make for the interesting kinda character dynamics that the current FF film attempts have lacked and we don't see a lot of in other superhero movies. But in order to get into the more complex FF themes you first need to establish the characters correctly, which is a big enough challenge for Fox apparently.

 

[Toa TAK]

To be fair, this new FF basically seems like a cut and paste job of his Ultimate Fantastic Four run, which was pretty humorless and miserable to begin with.

But Ultimate Fantastic Four was great.

 

[Neoxon]

Sorry but your understanding of FF is what is dated, not the concept itself. Sounds like you haven't read any of the recent runs (which would be a shame because they're great!).

Adding to this, anyone who hasn't read the Hickman run of the F4 should definitely get on that.

 

[Tobor]

I think we're fundamentally talking about a couple different things. Yes, audiences are eager for space operas. GOTG was not a family movie, though (IMO, and I realize this isn't a popular opinion) and regardless FF is a movie about family. Of course there is tons of potential for conflict in any family. But you spoke I think of a more traditional adaptation in FF, and I read FF comics for years and years, up through 2010 or so, and there was rarely much interesting familial conflict. The family usually gets along pretty well. So if you want a straight FF adaptation that's true to the comics that's going to be heavy on earnest happy-go-lucky-ness and low on familial conflict.

I'm all for an FF that has realistic cosmic threats and familial drama. I think that's probably more adaptable for wide audiences. And I think that's what they were going for with this movie and franchise reboot, even if it turns out they failed.

Traditional in the sense of adventure and cosmic fun. For family drama I refer again to the Incredibles, which nailed the tone and theme.

There is no reason a FF movie can't hit the same tone.

I think he's more referring to the idea that Guardians of the Galaxy proved that the general audience is ready for stuff that would once be considered too out-there.

Yes, that is indeed what I meant.

 

[maxcriden]

Sorry but your understanding of FF is what is dated, not the concept itself. Sounds like you haven't read any of the recent runs (which would be a shame because they're great!).

I was reading FF from around 1996 up until 2010. A lot of the more complex and interesting stories revolve around comic-ese that wouldn't translate (IMO) to the big screen. I'd also say complex/interesting FF stories were fewer and further between than those for other heroes. (I also went back during that time period and read plenty of older FF stories.)

Traditional in the sense of adventure and cosmic fun. For family drama I refer again to the Incredibles, which nailed the tone and theme.

There is no reason a FF movie can't hit the same tone.

I think we're splitting hairs then and are largely arguing for the same thing. Modern family drama that is still lighthearted but is far more dramatic (in a character sense) than the FF inherently and traditionally offers. Adventure and cosmic fun. I agree completely.

I think he's more referring to the idea that Guardians of the Galaxy proved that the general audience is ready for stuff that would once be considered too out-there.

Ah, right. I think out there is pretty permissible for audiences. It's more the traditional FF storytelling and premises, and especially the more complex/referential continuity-driven stories (Trial of Reed Richards, Nobody Gets Out Alive, Terror in Tinytown, etc.) that I felt wouldn't fly on the big screen. Some of the concepts in there I think wouldn't work for standalone or even necessarily a series of Hollywood films. But in and of itself I agree that the cosmic realm has plenty of appeal for audiences, if it's less John Carter and more bold and exciting.

Wow, thanks for reminding me about this comic ! I really fell in love with it the first time I read it years ago but I had completely forgotten about it. And it looks like it's available on Digital Comics Unlimited so I'll be reading it again tonight !

My pleasure. I'll gladly recommend the Waid run as well.

 

[Slayven]

To be fair, this new FF basically seems like a cut and paste job of his Ultimate Fantastic Four run, which was pretty humorless and miserable to begin with.

Only good thing from that, was their take on THanos and Ronan.

 

[Neoxon]

Traditional in the sense of adventure and cosmic fun. For family drama I refer again to the Incredibles, which nailed the tone and theme.

There is no reason a FF movie can't hit the same tone.



Yes, that is indeed what I meant.

Agreed completely. If Pixar can do it, there's no reason that it can't be done for the F4. Add some more elements of exploring the unknown & you'd have a winner of an F4 movie.

 

[maxcriden]

Only good thing from that, was their take on THanos and Ronan.

Yannick Paquette-drawn arc, right? Impressive art but I distinctly remember actually falling asleep reading those issues (to be fair I was a teen and staying up way too late to read comics on Weds. nights to begin with, but at the same time I do remember those issues were written in what felt to me like a pretty dry way).

 

[LaNaranja]

The problem with MCU villains is how they're written, not their names. Using Doom and Galactus isn't a "good villain confirmed!" guarantee.

Yup. People hype up Guardians but Gunn really shit the bed with Ronan (and Drax and Gamora).

 

[Neoxon]

Yup. People hype up Guardians but Gunn really shit the bed with Ronan (and Drax and Gamora).

Eh, Drax was alright. He did deliver some of the funniest lines in the movie.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Oh wow. I'm not surprised by these reactions, but... wow. Fox done messed up again.

Also Drax and Gamora's power levels should've been a lot higher.

 

[Slayven]

Yannick Paquette-drawn arc, right? Impressive art but I distinctly remember actually falling asleep reading those issues (to be fair I was a teen and staying up way too late to read comics on Weds. nights to begin with, but at the same time I do remember those issues were written in what felt to me like a pretty dry way).

Pasqual Ferry

 

[E the Shaggy]

Only good thing from that, was their take on THanos and Ronan.

Also, making Reed a straight up super villain. It works so well.

 

[Neoxon]

Oh wow. I'm not surprised by these reactions, but... wow. Fox done messed up again.

Also Drax and Gamora's power levels should've been a lot higher.

That we can agree on. Though the whole Power Stone struggle at the end could give Gunn a good excuse to start Vol. 2 with Gamora & Drax powered up.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

That we can agree on. Though the whole Power Stone struggle at the end could give Gunn a good excuse to start Vol. 2 with Gamora & Drax powered up.

I hoped this was the case ever since I left my first viewing. It needs to happen.

 

[JigglesBunny]

Remember when The Amazing Spider-Man came out and everyone despised it for being an emotionally hollow movie completely devoid of soul and clearly being made solely to maintain liscensing rights?

Well folks, here's Fantastic Four.

The real fucking kicker is, The Amazing Spider-Man was watchable. This is an excercise in endurance. Just save the money guys, really, nobody wanted this to be bad, you never want a movie to be bad but God, this movie is for the fucking dogs.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Ok, at this point I dont even want to buy the Blu-Ray.

 

[Anton Sugar]

But how does it compare to Fury Road?

 

[Neoxon]

I hoped this was the case ever since I left my first viewing. It needs to happen.

I see that great minds think alike.

Remember when The Amazing Spider-Man came out and everyone despised it for being an emotionally hollow movie completely devoid of soul and clearly being made solely to maintain liscensing rights?

Well folks, here's Fantastic Four.

The real fucking kicker is, The Amazing Spider-Man was watchable. This is an excercise in endurance. Just save the money guys, really, nobody wanted this to be bad, you never want a movie to be bad but God, this movie is for the fucking dogs.

TASM1 actually wasn't that bad, it was TASM2 that was a train-wreck. But it's a shame that F4 is as much as a train-wreck as you're describing.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

But how does it compare to Fury Road?

Is Fury Road the Dark Souls of film now or something? Haha

 

[ScreenSplitter]

Prediction; They'll go the Miller/Lord Spider-Man route and make an animated film. Though not bother getting a Miller/Lord tier director.

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Is Fury Road the Dark Souls of film now or something? Haha

Of course. Its at least at the same annoyance level.

 

[WanderingWind]

Is Fury Road the Dark Souls of film now or something? Haha

That is exactly what it is. I love both the game and movie and question, but holy jebus am I sick of hearing super fans compare everything to them.

 

[JigglesBunny]

I see that great minds think alike.


TASM1 actually wasn't that bad, it was TASM2 that was a train-wreck. But it's a shame that F4 is as much as a train-wreck as you're describing.

Oh, I agree, but let's be real, we all know it was made to keep the rights and nobody on that cast or crew besides Andrew Garfield gave a single legitimate shit about the project.

F4 doesn't even have that. The entire cast looks bored and unhappy to be there, you can tell the editors had zero respect for Trank because they cut up his story sequences which were actually competent and my god, some of these effects look like the Origins: Wolverine claws.

The whole thing is a sloppy mess, it's a black hole of a movie with no purpose and little to no redeeming factors because the redeeming stuff that WAS in the rough cuts were hacked out or stripped to nothing.
What's left is a grueling, totally messy shit crock.

 

[Toa TAK]

But his FANT4ASTIC 4OUR better than TASM2?

That's the real question here.

 

[Neoxon]

Oh, I agree, but let's be real, we all know it was made to keep the rights and nobody on that cast or crew besides Andrew Garfield gave a single legitimate shit about the project.

F4 doesn't even have that. The entire cast looks bored and unhappy to be there, you can tell the editors had zero respect for Trank because they cut up his story sequences which were actually competent, added more generic music tracks instead of the cool ones featured earlier in the film, and my god, some of these effects look like the Origins: Wolverine claws.

The whole thing is a sloppy mess, it's a black hole of a movie with no purpose and little to no redeeming factors because the redeeming stuff that WAS in the rough cuts were hacked out or stripped to nothing.
What's left is a grueling, totally messy shit crock.

I sadly agree, & I recall touching on this earlier. Sony didn't do The Amazing Spider-Man because they had an idea, they did it to hold onto the rights. Now they're doing a Spider-Man movie because Marvel Studios has an idea. Sadly the Fantastic Four reboot looks to have been made for the same reason as The Amazing Spider-Man 1 & 2. Fox didn't have an idea, they wanted to hold onto the rights.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Didn't Sony make a deal with Marvel which let them keep the film rights while Marvel get the merchandising rights?

 

[GAMEPROFF]

Didn't Sony make a deal with Marvel which let them keep the film rights while Marvel get the merchandising rights?

That was after ASM.

 

[Neoxon]

Didn't Sony make a deal with Marvel which let them keep the film rights while Marvel get the merchandising rights?

Marvel gained the merchandising rights & the TV rights in exchange for Sony getting all of the profits for the movies. Before the merchandising/TV deal was made, Marvel got a cut of the profits from the movies.

 

[maxcriden]

Pasqual Ferry

Man I always got those two confused. Thanks.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

That was after ASM.

Marvel gained the merchandising rights & the TV rights in exchange for Sony getting all of the profits for the movies. Before the merchandising/TV deal was made, Marvel got a cut of the profits from the movies.

Ah OK. Makes sense.

ASM1 was totally made to keep the rights then.

 

[JigglesBunny]

But his FANT4ASTIC 4OUR better than TASM2?

That's the real question here.

No.

It's the exact same, actually. Awful pacing, wooden acting, tonally all over the place, ridiculously bad attempts at humor, boring, one of the worst villains in a superhero film since whatever-the-fuck in Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc.

Thor 2's villain looks like original trilogy's Darth Vader against Doom.

 

[Neoxon]

No.

It's the exact same, actually. Awful pacing, wooden acting, tonally all over the place, ridiculously bad attempts at humor, boring, one of the worst villains in a superhero film since whatever-the-fuck in Halle Berry's Catwoman.

Sounds worse from what you're saying. TASM2 had at least a handful of redeeming qualities despite it being a train-wreck.

 

[Mengy]

That we can agree on. Though the whole Power Stone struggle at the end could give Gunn a good excuse to start Vol. 2 with Gamora & Drax powered up.

I hoped this was the case ever since I left my first viewing. It needs to happen.

Nah, it won't be the power stone struggle that powers up Drax.

It will be the after effects of when Ronin tossed him into the bath of celestial fluid that powers him up!



As for FF, I wonder if it will be on the low levels of TASM2 and Green Lantern? I hope it's not that bad.

Thor 2's villain looks like original trilogy's Darth Vader against Doom.

Oh, okay then.....

 

[Toa TAK]

No.

It's the exact same, actually. Awful pacing, wooden acting, tonally all over the place, ridiculously bad attempts at humor, boring, one of the worst villains in a superhero film since whatever-the-fuck in Halle Berry's Catwoman, etc.

Thor 2's villain looks like original trilogy's Darth Vader against Doom.

Fuck, man. TASM2 was such a piece of shit. I cannot fathom this being as bad.

 

[Future Foundation]

You don't have to be vague, others on here have already seen it. I guess screenings are already starting.

I know there was a screening in Atlanta on Sunday (?), and there's more in the UK today and this week.

 

[Neoxon]

You don't have to be vague, others on here have already seen it. I guess screenings are already starting.

Blame the Fox embargo.

 

[George Oscar Bluth II]

Hey Toa, you got that OT ready?