Super Mario Maker: Not all tools available from the start, unlock over 9 days
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
I'm not seeing lots.
Didn't Stumpokapow already call you out earlier about your pouting?
hurricanes
Member
On level editing? All those hack Mario levels and alike, do you seriously think it is something never done before?
Do you seriously think this is aimed at those people? They'll probably be bored with this either way and keep with what they always do.
TFRazorsaw
Banned
and now you're claiming your comedic use of abuse as an allegory is too far above my thought level? You're batting a 1000, here.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Yall wasting time once them 9 days up yall will find something else to go ham on. Yeah its dumb bone headed. Hope everyone plays who cries 
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
I'd have limited myself to a subset of the possibilities for a while anyway, so maybe that's why I'm not bothered. There's no way my first stage would have used all the possible tools. In fact, throwing the kitchen sink is no way to design a good stage. Usually you'll need to pick a theme around which to construct.
I'd love to hear Nintendo's actual rationale. It probably has something to do with encouraging the player to experience everything. I know that I tried out every new on-disc DLC weapon in splatoon the moment they were released while I hadn't touched some of the weapons that were already unlocked. It's our nature to be excited by new stuff and they're probably exploiting that to expose the player to all of SMM's functions.
I'd love to hear Nintendo's actual rationale. It probably has something to do with encouraging the player to experience everything. I know that I tried out every new on-disc DLC weapon in splatoon the moment they were released while I hadn't touched some of the weapons that were already unlocked. It's our nature to be excited by new stuff and they're probably exploiting that to expose the player to all of SMM's functions.
GustyGardens
Banned
When you actually look at the thread as a whole you'll notice that there's only about 5 or 6 people that are engaging in the back and forth. Most people, like myself, said their part and quickly got over it.
It's really not that big of a deal.
CaptainGyro
Banned
I can live with this considering that shortly afterwards new levels will be created with all enemies for the next couple hundred days.
Yes I know it's not perfect but the (potential) positives of the game far outweigh the (potential) negatives
Zomba13
Member
You're right. I'm sorry I see the holes in reasoning for this moving being a positive thing and being of the opinion that it's stupid. Don't want to pout too much. Might catch a ban. For pouting.
Except then wouldn't day 2 levels just be full of fire flowers and then day 3s full of ____ because people are rushing to try out new toys and not using the boring old stuff?
You added me despite my disappointment of the method and agreeing that a tutorial might have been for the best, but opting to to remain positive to use the basic features to learn because I want to learn level design. Congrats!
Joeshabadoo
Member
yea cuz that skilled community wont care AT ALL about having a much larger base for exposure and people to actually enjoy their creations. thats not why they do it. Nor will they care about rising toward the top with upvoting and miiverse comments/likes
I never claimed you were dumb, I was wondering if you understood my point. I assume you didn't. Please go back and read through my posts. Or just wait until tomorrow and read them with Cheep Cheeps instead of periods.
hurricanes
Member
It aims for everyone, which is what Mario always does. And yes I believe experienced players will buy it if they own a Wii U. If I like designing levels and there is this official, easy to use tools I sure will buy it, day one.
Because it doesn't bother me I was defending it, yeah right!
Not sure how that will translate into this. There're several good Mario hacks out there, but I believe that regardless of having everything unlocked from scratch or not they might feel limited in what they can do.
Everyone includes those whom this could be their first like any other game really, which is likely why Nintendo won't take them into consideration and just make as simple as possible even when everything is available.
CaptainGyro
Banned
No? I have no idea where you are coming up with that. Why would you even say that in a thread where people are arguing that they want to use lots of items in their levels right away?
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
So you agree and disagree?
Okay.
If you weren't defending it, what were you doing?
Zomba13
Member
^ was what I was responding to with the goomba and koopa post. It then follows that if that would happen, then on day 2 everyone would be using the "new" tools in their levels because they couldn't use them before leading to day 2's levels being full of Fire Flowers etc. Then Day 3 etc etc. Rather than giving people everything from the get go leading to more interesting and varied levels from the start. Because while yeah, it's really cool changing what a bullet bill launcher spits out there are also other tools to use that people will use.
Who said I agreed? I find it to be a mild annoyance. It could have been handled better, but I'm not going to let this consume me like it seems to be you and Zomba. I'm going to enjoy the game despite its limitations at first and learn the basics.
I don't understand what sides there even are in this thread, but you seem to be hunting for them. So few still for 25 pages now.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
Have you not read the thread? It's split more or less down the middle.
Because I wasn't bashing it I was defending it...?
I guess it'll take 9 days then. ¯\_(ツ
_/¯I always enjoy when users think they encompass the want and needs of the entire market.
Yes, because completely optional simplified modes in Nintendo games have surely not had backlash, either.
Some people won't be happy until those they see as simpleton plebs are shown the door and never return to the video game industry. So any attempt to make a game inviting for a novice will always meet with backlash, regardless of implementation.
Tutorial sections? Bad.
Feature rollouts? Bad.
Simpler optional game modes? Bad.
Only trial by fire is acceptable for some people, and anyone who doesn't like it can GTFO, apparently.
It's just a reality one must accept when in a crowd of hardcore gamers that only consider their own needs.
CaptainGyro
Banned
No, it does not follow that if "Lakitu and Bill Blasters are prone to be everywhere since you can modify what they throw" then people are only going to be using the tools given out on that day instead of the earlier tools also
You're not making any sense
A Link to the Past
Banned
It does kind of mean that. People are going to try out the new toys so we'll see a lot of levels that are just a billion of the new things, y'know
Because they aren't hating on it you classify them as defenders? Really? You quoted alot in there that was basically the equivalent of "it's okay with me, I'll get by"
The way you're looking at and reading posts, no wonder you see it that way
RoadHazard
Gold Member
Yep, that's what this is. Which might be a good idea in some ways, but seems weird. Unlocking the tools based on things you do rather than an arbitrary time limit seems like it would be a better idea. Like, create a level with these initial tools and you'll get a few more to try out for your next one, etc.
Zomba13
Member
This was exactly my line of thinking. Poster says that if everything is there day one people will just use the new shit and put it everywhere, I say that the same will happen though the "item of the day" will be different each day but (following the logic that people will just over use the new thing) you'll still see people over using "new" items for the first 9 days. Day one every enemy will be a goomba or koopa because that is all that is there, day 2 every power up will be a fire flower because it's all that is there, day 3 will have whatever it brings.
People like new things, Red Devil pointed out how people will just overuse the new thing, I replied that this system just creates 9 days of "new things" for people to over use.
If you are going to have an arbitrary lock and no tutorial that is exactly how it should be handled. Hell, if Nintendo are really afraid that people are brain dead they could even have you make two levels to make sure you realise that the goomba is an enemy and that you can hit blocks!
CaptainGyro
Banned
Yes, by day 2 the day 1 tools are going to be the "boring old stuff" that zombie mentioned and not be used at all because they are old hat
I'm sorry, but are you people high?
Theanine3D
Member
This makes no sense to me. All it does is kill the excitement of getting the game on release day.
I wouldn't want to come home excitedly from the store only to still have to wait 9 days for some arbitrary reason so I can finally experience all of what I just paid cold hard cash for.
Someone remind Nintendo that not all of their customers are 6 years old. A "Simple" mode that featured these gradual unlocks would have sufficed for those who really wanted it.
I mostly only want the game to play other people's levels, so it doesn't affect me directly, but I can see and understand why it will piss other people off.
I wouldn't want to come home excitedly from the store only to still have to wait 9 days for some arbitrary reason so I can finally experience all of what I just paid cold hard cash for.
Someone remind Nintendo that not all of their customers are 6 years old. A "Simple" mode that featured these gradual unlocks would have sufficed for those who really wanted it.
I mostly only want the game to play other people's levels, so it doesn't affect me directly, but I can see and understand why it will piss other people off.
Zomba13
Member
No more high than the people that seem to assume the average consumer will just freeze at the sight of options and just explode.
Kids are a lot smarter than you give them credit for and a lot more creative. See Minecraft for example.
That's the problem. It's a mild annoyance that has no reason to exist.
Zomba13
Member
I think this is what gets me. (I'm assuming you can just cheese it and time-travel with the system clock). It's this silly, stupid, limiting factor on this creative game that just annoys the people who want to make cool levels day one.
A mild annoyance can be something that I can forgive as long as the game's pros outweighs the cons. Course for future references it might not be a good idea, but I wouldn't cancelled a preorder or not buy this game over this (not that I had plans to get it anyway, with Fatal Frame and Yoshi coming in the month after or two).
CaptainGyro
Banned
can people stop using minecraft as an example? The design of a minecraft level has much more leeway when it comes to avoiding unplayable level design
I see a bunch of kneejerk reactions early on, then things cool down as some come to an understanding, then things ramp up again with dumb jokes like what's happening now. It's just going in a cycle now.
I don't see a big split, I see people meh about it, still very few defenders out of the whole thread. I see most in disagreement with Nintendo's method and find it baffling by page 10 and onward. Some even boycotting the game and cancelling it because of the 9 day rollout. Others are wondering why the thread is "freaking out" about it and it's easy to see why they think that with all how bad the strong the reactions, the dumb jokes, and the mocking was. I showed up by page 14 even wondering what the heck was going on. People on twitter looking in were wondering what the heck is going and finding the kneejerks stupid as hell and believe you're all freaking out about it.
I question how many you and others call defenders when you also had me in there. I wonder how much you payed attention to this thread. Would you call others of my similar position defenders? Because that seems to be the majority of this thread overall.
ElectricBlanketFire
Member
You can't upload a level in Mario Maker unless you can beat it.
I think this is just an extension of Nintendo´s level design. Nintendo´s level design always aims to slowly educate the players in what they can do until they master the basic skill set and then start throwing at them more and more complicated stuff progressively. They did the same with Splatoon and I think the reason behind this was to both keep the game fresh until the big August update and to teach a whole community how to play the game/genre. Having limited maps forced me to learn them really well and investigate where all the shortcuts and interesting points were. The growing number of weapons made me try them and learn that every one is different and has it´s unique uses. Unlocking alternate versions made me focus on sub weapons and specials.
The philosophy behind this rollout may be simillar to that: give players a limited pool of resources to build their levels and they may focus on the important aspects of level design instead of throwing awesomeItem#3 after awesomeItem#4 after awesomeItem#5...without any structure or logic behind that setup. The players will have less things to worry about and will be able to learn the basic functions of the editor and pieces in a controlled environment, just like modern Mario games always start with an open hazard-free area that allows you to play around.
The philosophy behind this rollout may be simillar to that: give players a limited pool of resources to build their levels and they may focus on the important aspects of level design instead of throwing awesomeItem#3 after awesomeItem#4 after awesomeItem#5...without any structure or logic behind that setup. The players will have less things to worry about and will be able to learn the basic functions of the editor and pieces in a controlled environment, just like modern Mario games always start with an open hazard-free area that allows you to play around.
When were unlockables seen as withholding features? I can understand people don't like this but people are forgetting really basic gaming terms here. Smash doesn't "withhold features" and yet it sure as hell takes longer than nine days to get everything, especially since a lot of it is hidden behind a RNG.
Milly Osworth
Member
Good idea actually. It might be overwhelming otherwise and its a nice way to keep it fresh.
I guess based on the size of the thread tantrums are thrown 😹
I guess based on the size of the thread tantrums are thrown 😹
CaptainGyro
Banned
that doesn't change the fact that it's easier to make a playable level in minecraft than in mario maker. So just because kids do it day one in minecraft doesn't mean they can do it in mario maker day one. His point was that people shouldn't under estimate kid's creativity,and he used minecraft as an example. It's not the same.
There is nothing stopping someone from restricting themselves to only a few items even if they had everything. If people want to limit themselves like that to test their creativity, then go for it. But let the people who want to make fifty bonecoasters zig zag through a screen full of flying chain chomps make that too. It's ironic since the marketing has 100% focused on all the crazy levels you can make, yet it will be impossible to actually make those in the first week.
You can't even do everything you see in the Nintendo logo at the beginning of this video when you get the game.
Like said before, like this was the first game where promotional videos/screenshots/etc shows stuff that's locked on the beginning, tsk.
I think its the same people arguing at this point...