Tom Brady's Suspension Appeal News

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Quotient said:
Every since the transcript of the appeal was made public it has changed the public perception, though i do conceede that Goodell is still up overall in the PR war.
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Only on the internet. I live in Baltimore/DC (granted the Ravens fans still hate the Pats after the playoffs lol), and only the Pats fans here think that Brady is innocent/NFL fucked up. Everybody gets all their sports news from ESPN and, therefore, are uninformed.
 
Roberto Duran said:
Only on the internet. I live in Baltimore/DC (granted the Ravens fans still hate the Pats after the playoffs lol), and only the Pats fans here think that Brady is innocent/NFL fucked up. Everybody gets all their sports news from ESPN and, therefore, are uninformed.
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ESPN looks so bad in all this too.
 
Listen people will believe what they want, but if you're holding hope that exoneration clears that, than you're dreaming.
 
LyleLanley said:
Not to people who only watch/read ESPN.
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Pats fans are getting way too optimistic about this, and only seeing it through the eyes of NE beat writers and twitter. Nothing has changed nationwide, and again it's unfortunafe. This isn't sterpids, it's not corking a bat, it's .5 psi, which was where the Colts balls were at.
 
msdstc said:
This isn't sterpids, it's not corking a bat, it's .5 psi, which was where the Colts balls were at.
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I'm sorry, but saying this is about minor variances in psi, even repeating that mantra over and over again does not make it true.

This is about the perception that Brady has repeatedly lied not only during the investigation, but since in his statements (including under oath), while also destroying evidence to hide his involvement.

Going after Goodell personally, as he now has, will not help his standing anywhere outside New England. I'm actually surprised that he's chosen this path as he seemed much brighter than this. Instead of asking for help out of the hole he's dug, he instead appears to have requested a backhoe be brought in to dig even deeper.
 
pixel monkey said:
I'm sorry, but saying this is about minor variances in psi, even repeating that mantra over and over again does not make it true.

This is about the perception that Brady has repeatedly lied not only during the investigation, but since in his statements (including under oath), while also destroying evidence to hide his involvement.

Going after Goodell personally, as he now has, will not help his standing anywhere outside New England. I'm actually surprised that he's chosen this path as he seemed much brighter than this. Instead of asking for help out of the hole he's dug, he instead appears to have requested a backhoe be brought in to dig even deeper.
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Goodell has willfully lied at least twice now. Going after him is warranted.
 
Roberto Duran said:
Only on the internet. I live in Baltimore/DC (granted the Ravens fans still hate the Pats after the playoffs lol), and only the Pats fans here think that Brady is innocent/NFL fucked up. Everybody gets all their sports news from ESPN and, therefore, are uninformed.
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For many NFL fans, especially those of Patriot rivals, they will always believe the Patriots are cheaters, nothing will ever change that. I was referring more to the media and casual observers. Though my perception may be wrong.
 
Deku Tree said:
Yeah transcript or no transcript 99% of football fans I talk to outside of patriots fans say "everybody knows the pats are a cheating franchise", "pats are cheaters" etc
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The transcript actually makes it worse because it's not even about guilt or innocence but rather standards of proof and tossing underlings under a bus, morally speaking.
 
Stinkles said:
The transcript actually makes it worse because it's not even about guilt or innocence but rather standards of proof and tossing underlings under a bus, morally speaking.
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How does the transcript do that? Brady clearly states under oath that he did not order any deflation, as well as showing that Goodell/NFL lied.

The transcript being made public was better for camp Brady than it was for camp Goodell.
 
Stinkles said:
The transcript actually makes it worse because it's not even about guilt or innocence but rather standards of proof and tossing underlings under a bus, morally speaking.
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Unless I'm misremembering, Brady himself had never argued that way, only the NFLPA lawyer, which makes sense because:

-He prefaces his response by saying that they're not admitting anything happened
- He's specifically a lawyer for players, and didn't care about anyone else
- Most importantly, the trial is specifically supposed to be about process, not fact, so he is constrained from arguing or innocence by the way the trial is set up.

Brady himself has held firm that no one did anything, I believe.
 
Quotient said:
How does the transcript do that? Brady clearly states under oath that he did not order any deflation, as well as showing that Goodell/NFL lied.

The transcript being made public was better for camp Brady than it was for camp Goodell.
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To Pats fans, sure. As others have noted, we don't like being lied to by either Brady or Goodell and both of them are misrepresenting the truth to protect their respective legacies. Brady likes his balls softer. He made sure it happened. Not a big deal and the Wells report might be faulty but to Brady's benefit it also shows how ineffective that cheating would really be.

So now he's in a giant spiral of self inflicted bullshit to protect a lie about what amounts to a minor personal preference.

And yes my team takes PEDs.
 
Stinkles said:
The transcript actually makes it worse because it's not even about guilt or innocence but rather standards of proof and tossing underlings under a bus, morally speaking.
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Unless I'm wrong I don't thing that actually happened. I thought Brady's lawyer just said that if the underlings deflated the balls then they did it without any orders from Brady.
 
LyleLanley said:
Unless I'm wrong I don't thing that actually happened. I thought Brady's lawyer just said that if the underlings deflated the balls then they did it without any orders from Brady.
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Yes and if you believe that, like outside of lawyerball, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
 
pixel monkey said:
Oh, they just took it upon themselves to deflate the balls. Of course... because that makes perfect sense.
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"If" was a key word in that sentence. I believe the argument was that the balls were most likely not intentionally deflated but if someone had done so that they did it without any request to do so from Brady. That may or may not be true but so far there hasn't been any evidence that showed Brady requested for that to happen.

Stinkles said:
Yes and if you believe that, like outside of lawyerball, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
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I think it's more than lawyerball. There's been no evidence that Brady had the balls intentionally deflated. There's not even any evidence that the balls we're intentionally deflated at all.
 
pixel monkey said:
Oh, they just took it upon themselves to deflate the balls. Of course... because that makes perfect sense.
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If you assume they are guilty (and frankly it's pretty unclear, as the amount they would have been deflating the balls when looking at potential pressures based off of Ideal Gas Law seems rather trivial) you could see why they might have done it when looking at the TXT messages about the Jets game. It looked like Brady got pretty pissed about the balls where the referees had massively overinflated the footballs to 16 psi.
 
pixel monkey said:
Oh, they just took it upon themselves to deflate the balls. Of course... because that makes perfect sense.
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Again, the way this trial is set up, it's not about fact or innocence. It's about the process of the punishment. Brady's camp isn't allowed to just argue that the league got it wrong (in fact, the league specifically says in its filing that even if they're wrong, they're allowed to suspend him).

They can only argue that the process was inherently biased. Therefore, when the judge asks the NFLPA lawyer "why would they do this without Brady's knowledge", the lawyer can't just say "they didn't do it", because that's not what the trial's about.

Instead, they have to argue the way they, which was (to paraphrase) "even if they did something, which we don't admit they did, there's no evidence that Brady was involved."
 
This is what Kessler (Brady's lawyer said to Judge Berman) regarding football deflation:

During the hearing, the judge asked the lead attorney on Brady's side why two Patriots employees would deflate balls without Brady's knowledge.
Jeffrey L. Kessler says the players' union does not believe the balls were deflated, but, if they were, the employees believed it would help their quarterback.
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http://www.csnphilly.com/football-philadelphia-eagles/judge-belittles-deflategate-puts-nfl-defensive
 
Stinkles said:
Yes and if you believe that, like outside of lawyerball, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.
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Again, they're not saying that this is what happened. Brady has maintained that nothing happened. The lawyer was asked a direct question from the judge, a question which assumed that the deflation had occurred (which, again, is because of the way this trial is set up). He answered that question in the only way he really could. He can't say at that point, in that trial, that nothing happened, because that's not what the trial is about, and it's not what the trial is about.

Let me just restate this to be clear:

- Brady, under oath, says nothing happened
- The trial is about process, and the NFLPA cannot argue innocence, only that the punishment violated the CBA
- The judge specifically asked why two employees would do this without Brady's knowledge
- The lawyer isn't going to get anywhere by saying "they didn't do anything" and not answering the question
- He answered the question, prefacing it with saying that they still maintain that nothing happened
 
Stinkles said:
To Pats fans, sure. As others have noted, we don't like being lied to by either Brady or Goodell and both of them are misrepresenting the truth to protect their respective legacies. Brady likes his balls softer. He made sure it happened. Not a big deal and the Wells report might be faulty but to Brady's benefit it also shows how ineffective that cheating would really be.

So now he's in a giant spiral of self inflicted bullshit to protect a lie about what amounts to a minor personal preference.

And yes my team takes PEDs.
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No mount of PEDs can have you run on the 1
 
pixel monkey said:
I'm sorry, but saying this is about minor variances in psi, even repeating that mantra over and over again does not make it true.

This is about the perception that Brady has repeatedly lied not only during the investigation, but since in his statements (including under oath), while also destroying evidence to hide his involvement.

Going after Goodell personally, as he now has, will not help his standing anywhere outside New England. I'm actually surprised that he's chosen this path as he seemed much brighter than this. Instead of asking for help out of the hole he's dug, he instead appears to have requested a backhoe be brought in to dig even deeper.
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Umm yeah that's what I implied in the original post, its unfortunate this mountain has been made out of a molehill, drawing barrybonds, and arid comparisons is shameful to any rational sports fan.
 
Stinkles said:
To Pats fans, sure. As others have noted, we don't like being lied to by either Brady or Goodell and both of them are misrepresenting the truth to protect their respective legacies. Brady likes his balls softer. He made sure it happened. Not a big deal and the Wells report might be faulty but to Brady's benefit it also shows how ineffective that cheating would really be.

So now he's in a giant spiral of self inflicted bullshit to protect a lie about what amounts to a minor personal preference.

And yes my team takes PEDs.
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The only people who have been caught lying in this whe debacle is Goodell and his people. Numerous times. And John Harbaugh.
 
There's nothing showing Brady wanted the balls prepared outside the rules. When there's a PSI window, it's a bit silly to instantly interpret any statements to mean to pump them up under that number.

It is basically like saying Rodgers statement about wanting the footballs pumped up is proof he wanted them pumped up outside of the regulation window.
 
DrForester said:
There's nothing showing Brady wanted the balls prepared outside the rules. When there's a PSI window, it's a bit silly to instantly interpret any statements to mean to pump them up under that number.

It is basically like saying Rodgers statement about wanting the footballs pumped up is proof he wanted them pumped up outside of the regulation window.
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Exactly, I've never understood this especially when studies performed outside the "independence" of the wells report showed how the balls would deflate naturally.
 
Dan Wallach has been awesome in making updates on the Brady case.

Is this the winner for Brady? CA2: Arbitrator fails to draw from essence of CBA when he bases award on outside policy.

CA2: Arbitrator fails to draw award from essence of CBA when he bases award on policy that is outside CBA (and non-collectively bargained)

Second Circuit case authority:
857 F.2d 91, 94 (2d Cir. 1988)
878 F.2d 56, 60 (2d Cir. 1989)
916 F.2d 63, 65 (2d Cir. 1990)
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CMgGH5YU8AAxwyG.jpg
 
Roberto Duran said:
Dan Wallach has been awesome in making updates on the Brady case.


CMgGH5YU8AAxwyG.jpg
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Daniel Wallach linked to a redditor who he says gave a very good summary:

If Goodell based his punishment on the Competitive Integrity Policy (which he did), and that policy doesn't apply to player contracts (which it doesn't), then the punishment must be vacated because it doesn't follow the essence of the CBA. This new citing is from the 2nd court of appeals (CA2) and therefore is directly applicable to this case.
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https://twitter.com/wallachlegal/status/632926409149681664

It also seems that rulings in the same circuit are legally binding precedent

https://twitter.com/WALLACHLEGAL/status/632946662844067840
 
Troy said:
Brady isn't at practice today. It would seem he's going to be at the courthouse tomorrow. Wise move.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/sport...-deflategate-hearing-roger-goodell-/31905671/

Tom Brady plans to attend Wednesday’s federal court hearing in New York, a person with knowledge of his plans told USA TODAY Sports.

The person spoke on condition of anonymity because they weren’t authorized to speak on behalf of Brady, who was absent from the New England Patriots practice Tuesday, per local reports.
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Virtually every high profile legal case has numerous famous pedigree lawyers writing long blog posts saying that the court is obviously going to rule the way they expect, on both sides of the ruling.
 
Quotient said:
For many NFL fans, especially those of Patriot rivals, they will always believe the Patriots are cheaters, nothing will ever change that. I was referring more to the media and casual observers. Though my perception may be wrong.
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Part of the reason is that those people keep insisting that spygate is something more than it was. Spygate or as I like to call it cameraplacementgate was only about the filming of defensive signals from the wrong place. The haters Marshall Faulk, Kurt Warner, and just recently Hannah Storm keep clinging to the false narrative that the Patriots taped the Rams walkthrough. It never happened, I repeat it never happened. It was falsely reported by that fat fuck John Tomase, how he continues to have a job in the Boston area Ill never know.
 
I'm confused by this AP article:

Lawyers are scheduled to argue Wednesday whether it was fair for the NFL to suspend Brady for four games this season after Goodell concluded he conspired to deflate footballs before a playoff game. No ruling from U.S. District Judge Richard Berman is expected.
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Berman has been trying to move the sides toward a settlement of the dispute over deflated footballs that has morphed into never-ending offseason scandal. If there is no settlement, Berman will decide whether Brady's suspension remains in place at the start of the season.
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So when is Berman going to issue a ruling? It sounds like Brady and Goodell failed to reach a settlement today, but when they meet tomorrow, the judge still won't finish this stupid fight. Is there a deadline where the judge steps in and ends this madness?
 
It seems Brady was at the settlement talks today in NY (which is why he missed practise). It seems the talks were not fruitful.

Ex-Patriots quarterback and current radio analyst Scott Zolak, quoting sources from the Brady camp, called into Felger & Mazz on Tuesday and said Brady had gone to New York for a meeting with Judge Berman, hoping that a settlement with the NFL could be reached. But -- according to Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk -- the league continues to insist that Brady accept the findings of the Wells Report, which claims he had knowledge of what the league is now calling a "ball-deflation scheme," as a precursor to any reduction of his four-game suspension.

Brady, who maintains his innocence, refuses to admit any guilt.
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http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...om-brady-very-angry-over-settlement-stalemate

I find it odd that the NFL wants Brady to accept the Wells Report, which in mind, would have Brady admit he lied under oath.
 
Getting him to accept the findings in the report is completely about saving face. The league sounds terrified that the report will end up with the reputation that it deserves and people will see it for the absolutely terrible science that it is. They spent a shit load of money and they want to be able to justify it.
 
Quotient said:
It seems Brady was at the settlement talks today in NY (which is why he missed practise). It seems the talks were not fruitful.



http://www.csnne.com/new-england-pa...om-brady-very-angry-over-settlement-stalemate

I find it odd that the NFL wants Brady to accept the Wells Report, which in mind, would have Brady admit he lied under oath.
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Goodell can't go back on the Wells report. It would be admitting he wasted millions of dollars. So he's all in even if the report is not good. NFL has to legitimize the Wells report, and their entire process with all the PR hits they have received in the last few years. Goodell screwed up early and now he has to roll the dice and hope article 46 is enough.
 
Megalosaro said:
If the rumors are true that Tom's marriage is under stress due to this deflategate crap, then he needs to sue the fuck out of the NFL for not only ruining his professional life but also his personal life.
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She had to know she was marrying a cheater.
 
This is the latest rumor going around on twitter. I have no idea who this guy is and his follower count seems suspicious so take this with a gigantic grain of salt.

@MikeGaisor said:
Just heard, @NFL and #TomBrady agree to no games, no admission of guilt and $50K for not cooperating. Announcement in court tomorrow.
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LyleLanley said:
This is the latest rumor going around on twitter. I have no idea who this guy is and his follower count seems suspicious so take this with a gigantic grain of salt.
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I just saw this too and came to post. I don't know what connection he has to anyone, he is not even in the media, he hosts seminars on investments, and the tweet is over 7 hours old, something this big would have leaked to someone more reputable in the media.
 
FTF said:
Don't tease me like that :/
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This seems to contradict the sources early that state Brady left the negotiations "angry".

Tom Brady is "very angry about what transpired today down in New York City," and will never accept a settlement offer from the NFL that includes a suspension of even "a single game."
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Unless something changed after Brady left.
 
That result (no games, no admittance of guilt and a small fine) would require the NFL to suddenly act intelligently, and that's not something I can accept without a lot of evidence. Luckily we don't have too long to wait to see if it's true.
 
KHarvey16 said:
That result (no games, no admittance of guilt and a small fine) would require the NFL to suddenly act intelligently, and that's not something I can accept without a lot of evidence. Luckily we don't have too long to wait to see if it's true.
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That settlement would be the opposite of intelligent from a legal point of view.
 
Quotient said:
This seems to contradict the sources early that state Brady left the negotiations "angry".



Unless something changed after Brady left.
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Scott Zolak who has a sports talk radio show in Boston, and is a Pats radio announcer has been saying Brady is willing to accept a fine and that's it. He's been saying fine with no admission of guilt. He's been saying that for a while now, and someone in Bradys camp or even Brady himself is feeding him this info.

Edit: Of course that twitter is faker than fake.
 
Quotient said:
This seems to contradict the sources early that state Brady left the negotiations "angry".



Unless something changed after Brady left.
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Yeah I heard he was angry as they/he basically wasted his whole day. NFL/Goodell already knew he wouldn't admit guilt and that's all they kept pushing.
 
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