Crayon
Member
Ha it was indeed the very next post. I'm gettin sloppy here.
Steam Controller trailer, $50
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Ha it was indeed the very next post. I'm gettin sloppy here.
ashecitism
Member
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ashecitism
Member
SpiceMelange
Member
What I find annoying about the buttons placement is that the default mapping will have stuff like A to jump, which makes sense on a Xbox layout because it's the closest button to the stick while it would be preferable to have Y to jump on the steam controller, which means remapping everything.
viveks86
Member
Crayon
Member
I'd put jump on one of the back buttons for a shooter.
ashecitism
Member
Or on the trackpad click.
Depends on the game really
I think that having the face buttons in the general were a bad idea. Every smart person is going to put the main buttons on the back button so you can constantly move the camera around
Face buttons were there because they were afraid to move people away from the comfort zone, but instead its going to move people towards a comfort zone which they'll dislike
I think that having the face buttons in the general were a bad idea. Every smart person is going to put the main buttons on the back button so you can constantly move the camera around
Face buttons were there because they were afraid to move people away from the comfort zone, but instead its going to move people towards a comfort zone which they'll dislike
Crayon
Member
Most criticisms seem to be based around the fact that it's not a standard controller. No right stick. Buttons in the wrong place. Speakers too big. And usually very brief.
RealityCheque
Banned
I don't mind making or downloading configs for all of my games. As long as thats relatively frictionless then I'm good.
I'm willing to relearn a lot of my old ways, as I really think this controller is the start of something better than regular pads. The fact that the buttons and stick have been placed in this way makes it obvious that valve want them to be secondary inputs.
The review and opinions posted seem like someone who's having a hard time fully embracing the concepts of it.
my pre-order stays.
I'm willing to relearn a lot of my old ways, as I really think this controller is the start of something better than regular pads. The fact that the buttons and stick have been placed in this way makes it obvious that valve want them to be secondary inputs.
The review and opinions posted seem like someone who's having a hard time fully embracing the concepts of it.
my pre-order stays.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
Have I missed a lot of impressions, or is nobody really going into how well the trackpad feedback works for them? Because the haptic "buttons" were supposed to replace ABXY before they gave us those confession buttons.
ashecitism
Member
I just hope if Valve sends out kits to the press, they'll send them out at least a month before launch, so they can have enough time with it. And some instructions might also help, but Valve might be just "use it however you want to use it, we won't tell you anything". Otherwise it's probably not going to look good. Press have been rather lukewarm about it, but that was after spending 10-15-30 mins with it.
viveks86
Member
What's really pissing me off is how brief these impressions are. There are so many people out there who actually want to analyze this thing in depth and instead we only hear from people who clearly have no interest in reviewing it or engaging with the community.
Why? While the trackpads are interesting, a controller should work across all games, including those tuned for analog stick and buttons. If those are poorly positioned or don't feel good, then it reduces the usability of the controller.
As for the remapping, can that be done directly within games? I'd hope developers update their games with remappings. I like the concept but don't want to be fiddling with different setups for each game - I'd prefer if there was some way to st it uo automatically with the most popular/highest rated setting for each game
Crayon
Member
I have a feeling it will be the "use it however" approach. I do hope that the press is fair with it. Valve doesn't spend much advertising with them, so I'm not expecting raves from that side. Valve has made it this far without much marketing tho.
I've noticed too and it's super fucking frustrating.
Crayon
Member
The controller will work across all games and that's many many more games than a standard controller. However I wouldn't expect the 360 pad layout to transfer directly and be optimal. This controller is a different design and different button mappings (different from the standard 360 pad) for a given game should be expected.
Done. You have two more wishes.
viveks86
Member
The trackpads do work for all games (or at least that's the goal). They are designed to work just as well for games tuned for analog sticks and buttons. They even simulate analog sticks, if need be. The actual analog stick and ABXY buttons have been put there purely for legacy support, for those who refuse to try something different. They didn't even exist in earlier iterations. Their real purpose is to serve as secondary buttons (like inventory/equip/zoom etc) and not primary input. So anyone trying to use them as primary input are limiting themselves to a less than ideal experience. It's not a traditional controller and those who treat it as one will not like it.
Pretty sure stuff like that would be made easy to apply within steam once the controller is out. I believe a lot of that functionality is already there and will continue to improve.
So pressing in different sections of a trackpad is supposed to be as responsive and versatile as the face buttons of a standard controller? That's a pretty tall order, and one I would have trouble believing the Steam Controller can meet without confirmation from somebody who has actually used it. How does it deal with pressing multiple "buttons" at once (eg. X and A at the same time)?
Cant be bothered digging for the article but PCWorld got chatting to one of the Valve devs at GDC when checking it out. They found that:
- Takes about 2 hours to get used to it
- The best controller configurations were found to be the ones where you don't take your thumbs away from the trackpads - implying abxy mapped to the pads as well as the analogue stick on the other pad
- Suggestion that the button diamond and analogue stick are just to help you transition over to the pads - which was also the suggestion when the analogue stick was first spotted by SteamDB and someone asked Valve
There were also a few people here on GAF that tested the other prototype controllers and claim that it worked well. Iirc one person even used it that way on Dark Souls
Getting acclimated to the controller by the sounds of things is going to be a hit and miss affair depending on each person. Some will find it easy, and for others it will be an exercise in frustration.
viveks86
Member
That's exactly the type of review/impressions that I wish we got. All we have right now are Valve's word and a bunch of folks who have access to the controller much before the rest of us but refuse to do any thorough analysis or even give it a fair shake.
With regard to your question about dealing with multiple buttons at once, the track pad supports blending, where the region between X and A can be configured to act as a combination of X and A. There are calibration settings for the amount of blending too.
Again all of this sounds a bit too configurable and daunting, which is why we need really patient and smart gamers to trial and error different combinations and come up with templates the rest can use. I'm yet to come across anyone who got their early hands on the controller (and talked about it publicly) to be remotely capable of that.
It will be like Call of Duty on the wii remote all over againg, as far as opinions about how good/awful it is.
charlequin
Banned
I haven't really seen anyone who has used the latest version make a serious claim to that effect, and definitely on the prototype version I used it was not really true. I don't think hanging their hat on this particular claim would be very flattering to the controller, and if the face buttons really are placed in a way to make them useless that's a fairly significant error in my mind.
Coffee Dog
Banned
yeah, while I feel that the analog stick was a useless addition given what we know of the haptic pads, I haven't heard anything of the haptics replicating standard face button input nearly as efficiently. My purchase actually hangs on whether or not the face buttons are either comfortable or able to be simulated given the number of action games and platformers I play, so this isn't great news. :/
Yeah, it's better.
viveks86
Member
I'm sure you've seen this before, but just to make my case, here's what the earlier prototype looked like (right):
Clearly the analog stick and the face buttons were placed as an afterthought, since the overall design and ergonomics of the controller hasn't changed to accommodate them at all. The most effective and comfortable way to hold the controller is with the thumbs' resting position on the trackpads. When you extend that logic, both the analog stick and face buttons are to be treated as secondary input. Whether that was a good decision or not, only time will tell, but Valve is certainly hanging its hat on it.
The Real Abed
Perma-Junior
Run and jump I believe. That's all.
Edit: Also, I guess I'm now concerned about the placement of the stick and buttons. Hopefully they're not too far for me. I can't wait to try this out. I really hope it works for me and makes it easier to play games on my TV that require a mouse and keyboard since I really don't want to have to buy a mouse and keyboard for TV play.
mattiewheels
And then the LORD David Bowie saith to his Son, Jonny Depp: 'Go, and spread my image amongst the cosmos. For every living thing is in anguish and only the LIGHT shall give them reprieve.'
I remember the SMB programmer giving his opinion of how well it played his game, and he sounded like the pad could emulate the feel of buttons well enough for him to play high-level. That's what made me really interested in feeling the haptic stuff so much.
alexandros
Banned
They don't seem to be further than where an analog stick would be in a conventional gamepad so I don't think it is going to be an issue. Maybe hand placement matters, I remember someone from Valve saying that the thumbs are meant to touch the pads almost vertically, so trying to use the pad with the same type of grip you'd use with a traditional controller may feel weird. We'll know soon enough, but I really wish more people would try and offer detailed impressions and videos. I hope those come down the line.
LicenceToK1ll
Member
The Witcher 3 part looks terrible imo.
The bit that looks crap is set to emulating analogue look, he then goes to the menu and sets the right pad to mouse look instead. From my perspective that was instantly better, allowing for very quick looking around with the trackball flick
viveks86
Member
Yeah I think the best combination for the witcher is going to be analog move on the left track pad and mouse look on the right. Though I'd prefer very high sensitivity so that I can do a full 360 in each direction without needing to flick. That's one game where I'd use mode shifting heavily to map all the keyboard shortcuts - screenshot, quick save, sign swapping etc.
Still think the prototype is light years better than the product we actually got.
viveks86
Member
Have you seen this video? Highlights the problems with the prototypes and how things evolved quite nicely
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfN5WK7OzU8
Especially 23:15 onwards
Bl@de
Member
This is the only good article I read on the Controller: http://devinandrewwhite.com/2015/07/07/everything-you-need-to-know-about-valves-steam-controller/
I was sold by the fact that you can create configs and change everything that you want. With that (and the trackpads) I can play games with no controller support on my couch (Mass Effect 1, Might & Magic, ...). I don't really care about the different button layout because you have 6 buttons on the back/top of the controller so I don't plan to make configs where my finger leaves the trackpad (just like using a mouse).
But I guess people wanted another Xbox 360 controller ... ok
I was sold by the fact that you can create configs and change everything that you want. With that (and the trackpads) I can play games with no controller support on my couch (Mass Effect 1, Might & Magic, ...). I don't really care about the different button layout because you have 6 buttons on the back/top of the controller so I don't plan to make configs where my finger leaves the trackpad (just like using a mouse).
But I guess people wanted another Xbox 360 controller ... ok
I don't expect this to be the best controller for games that require four face buttons as action buttons, but those types of games are increasingly rarer. Basically, this pad won't be good for fighting games. The buttons will likely work better as secondary inputs, which is already how the gaming industry as a whole has been moving. The necessity of camera control has changed the way controllers are used, but the form has remained fundamentally similar to when we were all playing 2D platformers.
That's what's so infuriating. People are weirdly insistent on trying to remove the actual unique use of this controller so that Valve can change it into a steam branded Xbox controller. It's so dumb.
That would be because people are thinking shallowly of console centric games rather the breadth of PC centric games that lack such support. Or they care only for a console comparison, disregarding the controllers purpose. In the end the controller is a choice and not a default. If you only play console centric games with controller support and don't want mouse like 1:1 precision accuracy and speed, there is no reason to consider the Steam Controller. If this isn't the case obviously the Steam Controller has a lot of potential.
Candescence
Member
Yeah, while the diamond setup for the face buttons is better than the prototype, I really wish the controller didn't have a left stick, it's just redundant, I'd rather have another set of buttons in its place for secondary functions. Hopefully future iterations of the controller discard it entirely.
Agreed. I find that using a shoulder button for jumping is far more optimal for games that require constant camera control is far more optimal than a face button.
I do hope there are other inventive controllers and further iterations on the Steam Controller that deviate further from the current standard in new ways. The Dualshock setup should not be the be-all and end-all of controllers.
Agreed. I find that using a shoulder button for jumping is far more optimal for games that require constant camera control is far more optimal than a face button.
I do hope there are other inventive controllers and further iterations on the Steam Controller that deviate further from the current standard in new ways. The Dualshock setup should not be the be-all and end-all of controllers.
I mean, I don't know if the diamond buttons on the controller are bad or not, I haven't used it. But to me, complaining about bad diamond buttons on the Steam controller is like complaining about the bad d-pad on the 360 controller. If the game needs the d-pad as one of the primary controls, you really should use something else. And that's why I find the complaints about it compared to the 360 pad weird; the Steam controller might suck for retro games and fighters, but so does the 360 controller.
I can actually see the Steam controller being a better fit for most modern console games, especially when you take into account the 2 extra grip buttons. The 360 controller is likely better for games that use all four action buttons and four shoulder buttons at the same time, but that doesn't account for a very large number of them.
I can actually see the Steam controller being a better fit for most modern console games, especially when you take into account the 2 extra grip buttons. The 360 controller is likely better for games that use all four action buttons and four shoulder buttons at the same time, but that doesn't account for a very large number of them.