SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

Status
Not open for further replies.
No... not even close.

He's looking at the reflection of himself
Listens to the tape
Now knows the truth, and smirks
He and Big Boss both are the same now
He flips the tape and puts it in the Data Recorder
Starts the tape (loading sequence)
Walks back to the mirror
See's the bloody version (demon) that he's become (metaphorically)
Smashes that illusion
The mirror breaks and we see 1/2 and 1/2.
A combination of BOTH Big Bosses
VS with his horn, and BB without the prosthetic arm.
They have both become one
The illusion is shattered.


VS, now fully invested in his role as Big Boss, commences Operation Intrude N313

This is the proper way to read the scene, IMHO.

Jason Blaustein has mentioned that he's full of himself. The dudes ego is ridiculous.

A shame, but:

1) you should never judge a product or piece of art based on the personality of who made it (they're two separate things entirely); it's always a good idea to not want to know about a creator's personal life, as that info should not have bearing on your enjoyment of a product
2) narcissism has been linked to creativity; genius and madness are often two sides of one coin

Well operation intrude N313 was the operation where Solid Snake goes to infiltrate OH, rescue Gray Fox and stop the leader.
Operation N312 was the operation where Gray Fox infiltrated OH.

Operation Intrude wasn't a thing until Gray Fox was captured so obviously Venom having the Operation Intrude N313 tape leads us to believe that N312 has already happened so the date would be 1995.

Yes, I thought this too.

However, are we 100% the tape said N313? IIRC, we can only see it saying "Operation Intrude N3...".
 
Which makes you wonder why any of this body double nonsense happened in the first place. It carries no consequence other than retroactively changing or lessening the meaning of future events. And it changes said events in the most arbitrary, meaningless ways (oh dude you killed x instead of y but x had all the characteristics of y!)

Eh I'll wait for someone smarter than me to parse it in a few a months. :D

Till then though I can make up theories that give it consequence.
 
back to the NES days.

Sorry but this triggered me. Metal Gear on NES is not a legitimate Metal Gear game in the slightest. It's a bastardization and not part of the actual storyline. The true version was on MSX and is significantly different.
 
This is the proper way to read the scene, IMHO.
Seriously? Why would Venom become one with BB after being told his existence over the past 11 years was a lie, he has been forced to commit unimaginable crimes, he had his whole life ripped from him. He's just been told that Solid Snake is on his way to kill him yet he "becomes one with Big Boss"? Dude what?

The guy on the last page has gotten it right I'd say with the whole smashing the mirror signifies a rift.

Yes, I thought this too.

However, are we 100% the tape said N313? IIRC, we can only see it saying "Operation Intrude N3...".
Hmm we have to make sure before jumping to conclusions but as N312 was the day before, it could still mean 1995 lol (unless N313 was on New Year's Day) :)
 
Sorry but this triggered me. Metal Gear on NES is not a legitimate Metal Gear game in the slightest. It's a bastardization and not part of the actual storyline. The true version was on MSX and is significantly different.

Maybe you are talking abiut Metal Gear 2 : Snake's Revenge which is really the laughing stock of gaming where Solid Snake is a karateka and fights a Snattcher version of Big Boss. Then Kojima corrected this basphemy by releasing Mteal Gear 2: Solid Snake.
 
You will get a side op to save Huey, half way through the the mission you will stumble upon some ruins (you have to go through them so you can't miss them) I won't spoil the rest as it is awesome!

Thanks.

Sorry but this triggered me. Metal Gear on NES is not a legitimate Metal Gear game in the slightest. It's a bastardization and not part of the actual storyline. The true version was on MSX and is significantly different.

I will post a trigger warning next time.

MG for me started with Colonel Vermon Cataffey. The five people who had an MSX enjoyed the real game back in the day.
 
Maybe you are talking abiut Metal Gear 2 : Snake's Revenge which is really the laughing stock of gaming where Solid Snake is a karateka and fights a Snattcher version of Big Boss. Then Kojima corrected this basphemy by releasing Mteal Gear 2: Solid Snake.

Naw m8 I am referring to the original (of which I own a physical copy)

It's different from MSX version. I FEEL ASLEEP.

Snake's Revenge on the other hand is canon and shows how Carnage Snake goes to fight Venom Snake.
 
Seriously? Why would Venom become one with BB after being told his existence over the past 11 years was a lie, he has been forced to commit unimaginable crimes, he had his whole life ripped from him. He's just been told that Solid Snake is on his way to kill him yet he "becomes one with Big Boss"? Dude what?

The guy on the last page has gotten it right I'd say with the whole smashing the mirror signifies a rift.


Hmm we have to make sure before jumping to conclusions but as N312 was the day before, it could still mean 1995 lol (unless N313 was on New Year's Day) :)
I just rewatched. the number wasn't clear so we can't say which operation it was. It may beeven operation 310 where he tells hm how to build OH. I can't swallow this is already 1995, he is still young here and he just found out about the truth and then immediately he will be told about Snake going to kill him? That's really a big stretch. I think the full number hidden from us is really smart and keeps us thinking about maybe another operation before MG1 timeline.
 
Thanks.



I will post a trigger warning next time.

MG for me started with Colonel Vermon Cataffey.
It's ok and lmao at playing the fake version (oh fuck, VERMON CATAFFEY!) Venom Snake! Maybe the Nes version foreshadows that Big Boss has a phantom and only one of them versions of events are real, which means we didn't play as Venom Snake.

MGSV is all a lie confirmed!
 
I just rewatched. the number wasn't clear so we can't say which operation it was. It may beeven operation 310 where he tells hm how to build OH. I can't swallow this is already 1995, he is still young here and he just found out about the truth and then immediately he will be told about Snake going to kill him? That's really a big stretch. I think the full number hidden from us is really smart and keeps us thinking about maybe another operation before MG1 timeline.
Hmm you could be right although it's not a stretch to say that he could have only found out he wasn't Big Boss just before N313, it could be psychological warfare by Big Boss. He'd be insane and would make errors which would give SS the edge.
 
No... not even close.

He's looking at the reflection of himself
Listens to the tape
Now knows the truth, and smirks
He and Big Boss both are the same now
He flips the tape and puts it in the Data Recorder
Starts the tape (loading sequence)
Walks back to the mirror
See's the bloody version (demon) that he's become (metaphorically)
Smashes that illusion
The mirror breaks and we see 1/2 and 1/2.
A combination of BOTH Big Bosses
VS with his horn, and BB without the prosthetic arm.
They have both become one
The illusion is shattered.

VS, now fully invested in his role as Big Boss, commences Operation Intrude N313

This is what I feel too. Those saying its BB walking away watch again. It's VS, the horn is still there. Its also BB, no prosthetic arm. It's a fusion of both. A horn and no prosthetic arm. The two became one and shared the same vision.
 
Robotoboy, let's agree to disagree, but I definitely agree that Skull Face's voice actor was way too theatrical, yes.

Seriously? Why would Venom become one with BB after being told his existence over the past 11 years was a lie, he has been forced to commit unimaginable crimes, he had his whole life ripped from him. He's just been told that Solid Snake is on his way to kill him yet he "becomes one with Big Boss"? Dude what?

Is that so difficult to understand? He has basically been told by a legend that HE HIMSELF is now the legend. Didn't you see his smile after that line dropped?

The frustration of realizing his life had been stripped away got replaced with the power of being Big Boss. Power is entoxicating.

The rift theory definitely has merit, but I prefer my reading.
 
Seriously? Why would Venom become one with BB after being told his existence over the past 11 years was a lie, he has been forced to commit unimaginable crimes, he had his whole life ripped from him. He's just been told that Solid Snake is on his way to kill him yet he "becomes one with Big Boss"? Dude what?

The guy on the last page has gotten it right I'd say with the whole smashing the mirror signifies a rift.

VS even smirks while BB is talking on the tape. He was BB's most trusted man, and there's probably nothing that gives him more pleasure than to be BB's phantom. Creating the legacy together.

When he looks first and see's the man who he was (character creation face)
then switches to see the first version of him as BB (coma) then it shows the DD logo (building the character showing his accomplishments) then shows the real reflection again (Venom Snake) then zooms out and VS is even nodding to what BB is saying on the tape.

The whole scene shows VS embracing becoming Big Boss. (From here on out, you're Big Boss) Then smirks..

Takes the tape... flips it and puts it in, signalling that he's ready to move forward as Big Boss. Goes back to the mirror, sees the demon that he is for doing this (now knowingly going along with it), but shatters that image, the mirror breaks, signalling the destruction of the image separating the 2 (VS and BB) and the camera passes through the mirror following the combined image of both BB's (Horn and lack of Prosthetic arm)

VS has embraced his role.. and commences Operation Intrude N313.
 
Robotoboy, let's agree to disagree, but I definitely agree that Skull Face's voice actor was way too theatrical, yes.



Is that so difficult to understand? He has basically been told by a legend that HE HIMSELF is now the legend. Didn't you see his smile after that line dropped?

The frustration of realizing his life had been stripped away got replaced with the power of being Big Boss. Power is entoxicating.

The rift theory definitely has merit, but I prefer my reading.
Just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the events doesn't mean I don't understand. You don't know if your right or not so who are you to tell me I don't understand?

IMO You're wrong anyway, he hasn't just been told that he is now the legend, in his eyes he always was the legend due to him believing he was Big Boss since the hospital attack.
He's just been told he's a pawn, a nobody, a lie.

His frustration of him realising his life had been stripped away was replaced the power of being Big Boss?

What? Like I said, he ALWAYS was Big Boss, he always did feel that power, he was tricked into believing he was Big Boss by Big Boss.
So by being told he was a nothing and his life was worthless he forgot them emotions and replaced them with powerful emotions he already felt because he already thought he was Big Boss?

That my friend doesn't make sense.
 
Just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the events doesn't mean I don't understand. You don't know if your right or not so who are you to tell me I don't understand?

IMO You're wrong anyway, he hasn't just been told that he is now the legend, in his eyes he always was the legend due to him believing he was Big Boss since the hospital attack.
He's just been told he's a pawn, a nobody, a lie.

His frustration of him realising his life had been stripped away was replaced the power of being Big Boss?

What? Like I said, he ALWAYS was Big Boss, he always did feel that power, he was tricked into believing he was Big Boss by Big Boss.
So by being told he was a nothing and his life was worthless he forgot them emotions and replaced them with powerful emotions he already felt because he already thought he was Big Boss?

That my friend doesn't make sense.

Where exactly do you see his frustration in that scene? When he smashes the mirror? I believe you are misinterpreting it as a rift when it's actually breaking the illusion and embracing things.

Ask yourself if he was truly that frustrated... why would he flip the tape over and put it in the machine? Why would he smirk and nod as BB is talking to him on the tape? Why would the camera pass through the mirror instead of turning from it?
 
VS even smirks while BB is talking on the tape. He was BB's most trusted man, and there's probably nothing that gives him more pleasure than to be BB's phantom. Creating the legacy together.

When he looks first and see's the man who he was (character creation face)
then switches to see the first version of him as BB (coma) then it shows the DD logo (building the character showing his accomplishments) then shows the real reflection again (Venom Snake) then zooms out and VS is even nodding to what BB is saying on the tape.

The whole scene shows VS embracing becoming Big Boss. (From here on out, you're Big Boss) Then smirks..

Takes the tape... flips it and puts it in, signalling that he's ready to move forward as Big Boss. Goes back to the mirror, sees the demon that he is for doing this (now knowingly going along with it), but shatters that image, the mirror breaks, signalling the destruction of the image separating the 2 (VS and BB) and the camera passes through the mirror following the combined image of both BB's (Horn and lack of Prosthetic arm)

VS has embraced his role.. and commences Operation Intrude N313.

Right ok, have you played the game? I have for the past three days, do you want my PSN to check?
At the start the doctor shows you Big Boss's face and says "This is the face you have been living with up until this point. Tomorrow this will no longer be".

You then make a new face and the doctor says "tomorrow I will perform the surgery to change your appearance, this is what it it will look like" and shows you the face you just created.
The character creation face was said by the doctor to be the face he will create with surgery the following day, he doesn't get to perform that surgery as Quiet kills him so you are stuck with Big Boss's face.

The character creation face isn't the medics original face.

Takes the tape... flips it and puts it in, signalling that he's ready to move forward as Big Boss. Goes back to the mirror, sees the demon that he is for doing this (now knowingly going along with it), but shatters that image, the mirror breaks, signalling the destruction of the image separating the 2 (VS and BB) and the camera passes through the mirror following the combined image of both BB's (Horn and lack of Prosthetic arm)
Ready to move forward as BB? He always was BB since the hospital scene.
He committed his crimes under the guise of BB and became a demon under the guise of BB, Venom even says to Kaz that he's already a demon before he even commits his crimes in Afghanistan so in the eyes of Venom BB is a demon anyway.
 
Just because I don't agree with your interpretation of the events doesn't mean I don't understand.

You literally asked me why; to elaborate on my point. That's pretty much a confession of not understanding the reading.

If you understood, but merely didn't agree, you could've worded it differently. Anyway, semantics.

He's just been told he's a pawn, a nobody, a lie.

Big Boss' words literally said the opposite. He's a hero, a savior, etc.

Stop making stuff up. Your assuming to know how Venom felt during the reveal; assumptions that contradict his facial expressions and BB's words. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups, especially if they contradict the evidence available.

Every reading is an assumption of some sort, but come on, man.

So by being told he was a nothing and his life was worthless he forgot them emotions and replaced them with powerful emotions he already felt because he already thought he was Big Boss?

That my friend doesn't make sense.

It doesn't make sense because you're twisting the essence of it in your sentence. Buddy.

No one told him his life was worthless. You're making that up, again. He was told that his sacrifice saved the life of a legend, and that it subsequently made him a legend as well.

I'm not making this up, it's literally there.

You are pretty damn stubborn. Amigo.

Right ok, have you played the game? I have for the past three days, do you want my PSN to check?
At the start the doctor shows you Big Boss's face and says "This is the face you have been living with up until this point. Tomorrow this will no longer be".

You then make a new face and the doctor says "tomorrow I will perform the surgery to change your appearance, this is what it it will look like" and shows you the face you just created.
The character creation face was said by the doctor to be the face he will create with surgery the following day, he doesn't get to perform that surgery as Quiet kills him so you are stuck with Big Boss's face.

The character creation face isn't the medics original face.

The character creation face is the medic's original face.

Everything the doctor said is exactly that: only the stuff he said. Whether or not he was gonna go through with all of it, we'll never know, as he got offed by Quiet. The doctor was probably in on the whole ruse and said what needed to be said in order to fool the medic into buying his role as BB.
 
The real question is whether Venom Snake after getting such power and becoming demented with the Big Boss name, did he split from the real Big Boss and become his own version which is against the real one (just liek SkullFace splitting from Zero)

This is implied in the latest trailer. Skullface and Venom parallel one another in a lot of ways.
 
Right ok, have you played the game? I have for the past three days, do you want my PSN to check?
At the start the doctor shows you Big Boss's face and says "This is the face you have been living with up until this point. Tomorrow this will no longer be".

You then make a new face and the doctor says "tomorrow I will perform the surgery to change your appearance, this is what it it will look like" and shows you the face you just created.
The character creation face was said by the doctor to be the face he will create with surgery the following day, he doesn't get to perform that surgery as Quiet kills him so you are stuck with Big Boss's face.

The character creation face isn't the medics original face.

Wow.. you missed a seriously important detail then my friend. Because YES I have.

Did you see at the end of mission 46 where Ocelot drags the real BB out of the ambulance and gives him his new ID and it's the face that you created... the medics true face. They essentially switch places....

L27IJeu.png


I mean... lol cmon
 

Are you trying to irritate people by being so condescending? The plot of MGS isn't genius by any means... it's riddled with Deus Ex Machina, and strange flip-switchy characters.
 
Can we have someone record/screencap all the butthurt fans after finding out that we're not playing as BB?

IT'LL BE GLORIOUS.
 
You're a condescending ass.

Well, there's only so many logical fallacies, retarded reasoning and faulty arguments from people who haven't even played the game properly (or at all) before one needs to find a way to let off some steam, wouldn't you agree? A condescending tone sure is a hell of a lot better than a straightup insult like "you're an ass", bud.

I think I can feel my horn growing.
 
Well, there's only so many logical fallacies, retarded reasoning and faulty arguments from people who haven't even played the game properly (or at all) before one needs to find a way to let off some steam, wouldn't you agree?

I think I can feel my horn growing.

Yeah, but honestly --- People do have a point. I love the game, and I got the message... but I agree the game is written pretty badly.
 
So the real Big Boss ends up with a new face?

Is Big Boss even running Foxhound at all or he just leaves forever?
 
What? Like I said, he ALWAYS was Big Boss, he always did feel that power, he was tricked into believing he was Big Boss by Big Boss.
So by being told he was a nothing and his life was worthless he forgot them emotions and replaced them with powerful emotions he already felt because he already thought he was Big Boss?

If you take a player's viewpoint on this, the perspective shifts. For example, you play through the prologue and there are not so subtle hints that you aren't BB. All the way through the game, you go through legendary missions as the real BB would and your avatar moves like you expect BB to move, but in the back of your head you're doubting you are BB. You want to be BB so much that do you're best to S-rank missions and go on no kill runs.

And then this cutscene happens. Where its confirmed, you're not BB but you were able to do those things anyway. And now the real BB is telling you. Dude I'm out. You've done well. You're the fohrealzys BB now. Make it count.

That's my take on that anyway.
 
Yeah, but honestly --- People do have a point. I love the game, and I got the message... but I agree the game is written pretty badly.

Oh, sure, there's a lot of fat in the script that could've been trimmed off, for instance. But the quality of the writing wasn't the point. The point was that people are hating on the game for readings that are based on emotional overreactions and/or factual errors.

Moving the goalposts can be quite tiresome; let's not do it too often. I'm fine with the discussing the quality of the writing, the quality of the twist, the impact of the twist, and a lot, lot more, but let's not throw in one whilst we're discussing another.

If you take a player's viewpoint on this, the perspective shifts. For example, you play through the prologue and there are not so subtle hints that you aren't BB. All the way through the game, you go through legendary missions as the real BB would and your avatar moves like you expect BB to move, but in the back of your head you're doubting you are BB. You want to be BB so much that do you're best to S-rank missions and go on no kill runs.

And then this cutscene happens. Where its confirmed, you're not BB but you were able to do those things anyway. And now the real BB is telling you. Dude I'm out. You've done well. You're the fohrealzys BB now. Make it count.

That's my take on that anyway.

Great meta-interpretation.
 
Paz had a another bomb in side her after you give her all photos and then she dies :(

Huh? Where did you see that ? The bobm wasn't triggered all these years and now she was triggered when she recovered her memory? Any gif of it ?

Then it is betetr to not let her rememebr everything so she can live (the only happy event in the entire game and this ends badly :( )
 
2) narcissism has been linked to creativity; genius and madness are often two sides of one coin

Don't get me started on Psychology bud. Narcissism is a cancer... and it can get in the way a lot of times. I really don't consider Kojima a "genius" due to his extensive reliance on Deus Ex Machina - like FoxDie, Nanomachines, Cyborgs, and special Parasites... a real genius doesn't need to rely on a shallow explanations to word away the sci-fi elements of their writing. If he wanted to explain it away, he could have easily tried to give better explanations for what he writes. His themes are awesome, a lot of times they hit the mark at least in their delivery... but the lead up usually feels contrived.
 
That mission where you have to get Huey ended up on such a bad note for me.

At first it felt refreshing because it was something quite different after hours of just RNG esque missions. But so many things wrong with it, forced action and extraction sequence. Involves hiding but is out in the open with no buildigs to hide in but instead wants you to hide behind rocks or around a corner, except the robot can destroy the said rock. The extraction point can't be changed to a safer place. The mission area is restricted so you can't escape away. And the robot always roams around the chopper because that's where you are headed so that's where you'll probably be losing it. Took me some time to get to the choppa (although it was on my first try) but when I did I ended up dying because the metal gear was out of my weapon's line of sight...after that I ended up failing a few times and then got it.

By the time it was over it left a bad feeling in me instead of feeling holy shit that was epic!
 
Major Zero's VA sounds AMAAAAZING. He's the Best out of all of them. I have no problem with anybody, except for the direction. I didn't feel anything towards Strangelove's death confession, Ocelot of miscast in my opinion, and Huey was beyond annoying.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom