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[Springfoot]

Subverting our traditional ideas about what being a legend is all about and what is needed to create one, commenting on the everlasting discourse on good and evil and what defines them, retro-actively fixing cheesy plot issues within the first two MG games and allowing Solid Snake to sit on the throne as the one, true hero of the franchise once more.

It's still a weird heel turn from the thematic message Kojima conveyed through MGS2, which I analyzed in an earlier post. At the time he made it, he thought MGS2 would be the last MGS game, and intended for that message to be the final takeaway for the entire series.

As I mention in that post, I'm fine with and like the idea behind the big twist about the player's (personified through Medic) own relevance within the history and legend of Big Boss, but I think the execution, characterization, and writing supporting it - the literary build up and payoff (or its absence) - is pretty weak. I guess it speaks to the separation between idea vs. execution in creative works. Cool idea but weakly constructed.

It's pretty damn... solid.

Haha, Solid Snake, the one true underdog and tragic hero of the series.

-----------------------

Switching gears to gameplay spoilers, does anyone know how you earn/find/unlock the various Master Certificates needed to unlock all the cool bonus outfits?

I saw the earlier guide scan that had Master Certificate (Elite), Grand Master Certificate (Elite), Master Certificate (Standard), and Grand Master Certificate (Standard) listed. They're "key items" necessary for the Raiden, Cyborg Ninja, and Naked outfits.

 

[robotoboy20]

it's the worst dialogue of the series. Localization and Direction fail. But that's fine, because I enjoyed the twist, the action is good, the cutscenes are well made.

My biggest problem, is that Kojima's ego punches right through the franchise with this installment. We rescue Kojima, once again, for the third time. Really man? really?

I would have liked a respectful departure for Hayter. At least have him as a soldier we could Fulton Recovery... Iraqouis Pliskin soldier, or something like that. The guy was Snake since the Solid franchise. I don't hate Kiefer, i think for this game, it makes sense to have him over David, but for fuck's sake man, curb your ego just a little bit.

If I see Kojima on my base I am going to use an RPG point blank in his face.

 

[funkystudent]

If anyone cares here is the Man Who Sold the World cover they got because licencing Bowie is probably a pain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLoytewvn0g

 

[Spainkiller]

He always was when you realize that Solid Snake is the real heir of The Boss starting with MGS2. He just doesn't know it. Among all the Snakes, he's the one fighting to "leave the world as it is".

I never argued that.

My point remains the same: Solid Snake is an even bigger hero now, having beaten two fully capable Big Bosses, etc.

But this is the deal. If you need to start disregarding canon entries in the series, mainline entries, for a plot to make sense, then what's the point of canon?

You're overreacting.

Nothing is being disregarded.

 

[Alienous]

Kiefer seems to have no idea what context he's recirding his lines for, outside of the prologue.

 

[The Silver]

Was there any more back story given to Skull Face other than he somehow "assisted" Big Boss on certain missions?

Why exactly was he angry at them?

Oh yeah the Skullface helping out in the background was another way to tear down this legend of Big Boss. Snake Eater was his finest moment of him being an ultimate solo badass soldier taking on the legends of WW2, and even then the truth is that there were many factors behind and on the scenes that led to the mission succeeding.

 

[Hands of Stone]

Oh yeah the Skullface helping out in the background was another way to tear down this legend of Big Boss. Snake Eater was his finest moment of him being an ultimate solo badass soldier taking on the legends of WW2, and even then the truth is that there were many factors behind and on the scenes that led to the mission succeeding.

Anything specifically detailed?

 

[Mix Master]

can we wear the Ground Zeroes Sneaking suit

 

[Spainkiller]

Switching gears to gameplay spoilers, does anyone know how you earn/find/unlock the various Master Certificates needed to unlock all the cool bonus outfits?

I saw the earlier guide scan that had Master Certificate (Elite), Grand Master Certificate (Elite), Master Certificate (Standard), and Grand Master Certificate (Standard) listed. They're "key items" necessary for the Raiden, Cyborg Ninja, and Naked outfits.

No, but if you know the answer, please share, especially if it ties in with the GZ save somehow.

 

[The Silver]

Anything specifically detailed?

I don't know, all i've read are the summaries in this thread, haven't watched any videos or listened to tapes

 

[robotoboy20]

Narcissism can be a horrible thing, yes, but unfortunately a large part of our history's most revered artists were all bipolar, narcissistic and/or had other mental disorders that were tied to self-image. Their art was often a way to either cope with it, by either using it to express their suffering or by trying to use it as a medium to increase their sense of self-worth. For instance, I don't wish depression upon anyone, but fuck me if depressed people don't make the best grunge. Anyway, OT, LOL

Fair enough regarding the deus ex machinas, although the nanomachines and especially FoxDIE managed to transcend that label by serving multiple uses in the narrative and feeling coherent with the themes of the game for me. I agree on the parasite, though.

I have Bipolar - don't lump it together with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)... It's nothing like it. Mania does come with delusional grandiose self-importance... but that's NOT the normal us, it's a fucked up state of mind we're in at the time, and we don't execute and act the same way people with NPD do... the episodes look pretty psychotic when seen from an analytical point of view. Also Mania is often seen as awesome by outsiders... but we suffer from massive anxiety spikes, and agitation when under its influence. NPD is closer in relation to Borderline, or Sociopathy - ie: somewhere in between. Borderline in fact (at least for high functioning cases) often coincides with NPD. Sure NPD can still empathize, but not well... Bipolar individuals can empathize just fine, and in fact, large emotional spikes around them can trigger episodes of swings. NPD is an abusive and destructive personality disorder where the individual believes that they can do no wrong, and when that facade is brought down they will do anything to make them right again, including really messed up abusive things. It's also a constant - unlike Bipolar...

Bipolar does not function this way. Sorry... I don't like hearing people talk about THAT disorder in particular when a lot of common misconceptions come with it. Anyways, NPD is fueled by people boosting said person's ego - and NPD people are more likely to make mistakes and not try as hard at life, and rely on the work of others to get them places in life whilst relying on others, and even lying to themselves and others to attain what they view as something they deserve. NPD can come with a person who's WILLING to put their ideas out there, but the ability and confidence in oneself does not skill/creativity make. Anyways, sorry about that rant.

 

[Alienous]

I like the idea of presenting Big Boss as just a man. Heck, going into the game I thought that's what it would be about; just a guy who is, by circumstance, in this position.

It's sort of still that but I don't understand why it couldn't be simpler.

 

[MissCauthon]

Question for those who played the game, my guy friend is asking this. Does the intro have nudity? or barely covered female warriors? lol,

 

[Spainkiller]

I have Bipolar - don't lump it together with NPD (narcissistic personality disorder)...

Don't worry, I didn't. Hence the "and/or", to signify that I was summing up mental disorders, not lumping those two examples together.

Anyway, thanks for that insightful post.

Question for those who played the game, my guy friend is asking this. Does the intro have nudity? or barely covered female warriors? lol,

The first hour of the game will consist mostly of staring at your male avatar's butthole.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

I like the idea of presenting Big Boss as just a man. Heck, going into the game I thought that's what it would be about; just a guy who is, by circumstance, in this position.

It's sort of still that but I don't understand why it couldn't be simpler.

WIth Kojima it has to be insane.

Like, Solidus couldn't have just raised Jack as a kid. No, not only does he call himself Jacks father, but he has to reveal that he's the one who killed Jacks parents. For that last twist of the knife. Why? Because fuck you, Jack! Like that literally wasn't necessary information.

 

[RyanardoDaVinci]

can we wear the Ground Zeroes Sneaking suit

Yes, if you import a Ground Zeroes save.

I'm not sure if it's available outright, or you have to develop it / reach a certain lvl or mission.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

WIth Kojima it has to be insane.

Like, Solidus couldn't have just raised Jack as a kid. No, not only does he call himself Jacks father, but he has to reveal that he's the one who killed Jacks parents. For that last twist of the knife. Why? Because fuck you, Jack! Like that literally wasn't necessary information.

Frank Jaeger kills Naomi's parents and adopts her as her big brother. Really MGS characters are insane.

 

[Sub_Level]

Switching gears to gameplay spoilers, does anyone know how you earn/find/unlock the various Master Certificates needed to unlock all the cool bonus outfits?

I too would really, really like to know this.

I know you get Star of Bethlehem when you beat the game and Strangelove's memento. Both are used for outfits. But for the ninja suits you need Grand Master Certificates.

 

[Venom Fox]

Quiet is confirmed Sniper Wolf in mission 40, da fuck?

 

[krimsoncharge]

what about the 3rd ending that was supposed to be mindblowing? has someone unlocked it or was it a bogus rumor?

 

[AAMARMO]

Quiet is confirmed Sniper Wolf in mission 40, da fuck?

lol who told that its probably someone here :3

Spoiler

Not True

 

[Alienous]

what about the 3rd ending that was supposed to be mindblowing? has someone unlocked it or was it a bogus rumor?

I've seen three endings, and I think I could have seen the last two in any order, but it was the second ending that was 'mindblowing'... in its ridiculousness, at least.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Quiet is confirmed Sniper Wolf in mission 40, da fuck?

Huh ? Quiet is not kurdish and Sniper Wolf is younger and was saved by Big Boss in Iraq not Afghanistan.

 

[funkystudent]

what about the 3rd ending that was supposed to be mindblowing? has someone unlocked it or was it a bogus rumor?

So far there are 3 endings.

Skullface story ending. (first credits roll ending)
Mirror / Man who Sold the World Ending.
Quiets story ending.


No secret mind blowing ending yet. Maybe reviewers got it where talking about the Mirror / man who sold the world ending or something and thats the mind blowing ending.


I cant imagine there is much more. Locking something critical behind 100%ing the game on hard like some people are expecting doesnt seem like a thing someone would actually do when making a game.

 

[base shagohod]

Any streams up bros?
Aside from the hitbox one, dude just started and I don't wanna spoil the intro.

 

[robotoboy20]

Is there any video of Quiets ending!? I'd love to see it.

 

[Spainkiller]

Quiet is not Sniper Wolf. She's just wearing a Sniper Wolf skin that can be unlocked by defeating her.

That EXTREME mission is just there for lulz and has nothing to do with the story, although you do need to complete it in order to reach the ending.

 

[theSecondAgent]

Exactly. He has no place in Metal Gear. He just sounds off compared to the rest of the characters and the ridiculous situations. Kiefer sounds out of place.

It's because Venom Snake IS out of place. Going by GZ, TTP is all about the facial expressions. The expressions themselves, say's a lot more than any cheesy dialog.

I am happy they got in a proper actor. I'm even more happy it's one I really like.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Quiet ending is when she leaves Venom Snake bitten by a cobra ans says : " I am Quiet. I am the absence of the words."

Right ?

Or is there another ending where you follow her trails after she leaves to recover her?

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Frank Jaeger kills Naomi's parents and adopts her as her big brother. Really MGS characters re insane.

Yeah.

MGS is NOT the best writing. That much is true. But it's completely batshit insane. And that's what makes it special. Solidus is a batshit insane perfect clone of a legendary soldier who was president, and he wears a powersuit with tentacles on it. And instead of using guns or his strapped on technology, he resorts to Japanese Katanas. Because why the fuck not. Raiden is a child soldier who is raised by Solidus, gets picked up by the Patriots because he wouldn't accept his past(unknowingly) and is VR trained to the point where he thinks he's as good as a soldier like SS, but then they include his GF into the mission and he thinks everythings fine and dandy until it's revealed that an AI has taken her captive. Oh and the Colonel that we all thought was Campbell is an AI that looks like the Colonel because that's who we expected. Or something.

And from the sounds of it, MGSV is going to continue that stupid insanity. Sure it might not be well-written, but goddamit if the impression it gives off won't make it seem like the most intense well written shit ever.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Yeah.

MGS is NOT the best writing. That much is true. But it's completely batshit insane. And that's what makes it special. Solidus is a batshit insane perfect clone of a legendary soldier who was president, and he wears a powersuit with tentacles on it. And instead of using guns or his strapped on technology, he resorts to Japanese Katanas. Because why the fuck not. Raiden is a child soldier who is raised by Solidus, gets picked up by the Patriots(unknowingly) and is VR trained to the point where he thinks he's as good as a soldier like SS, but then they include his GF into the mission and he thinks everythings fine and dandy until it's revealed that an AI has taken her captive. Oh and the Colonel that we all thought was Campbell is an AI that looks like the Colonel because that's who we expected. Or something.

And from the sounds of it, MGSV is going to continue that stupid insanity. Sure it might not be well-written, but goddamit if the impression it gives off won't make it seem like the most intense well written shit ever.

And one day in the late 90s Yoji Shinkawa just drew a cyborg ninja when he was in the train which had cool design so he showed that to Kojima and he liked that idea and said: "Why not add a cyborg ninja to the game? It's cool. So let's alter the story to add him by bringing someone from the deads to make him that cyborg ninja."
And he chose Grey Fox because why not? I just loved that.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

And one day in the late 90s Yoji Shinkawa just drew a cyborg ninja when he was in the train and he had cool design and shwoed that to Kojima and he liked that idea and say why not add a cyborg ninja to the game and let's alter the story to add him by bringing someone from the deads to make him that cyborg ninja and he chose Grey Fox because why not? I just loved that.

Yup, and Raiden was included because apparently japanese schoolgirls thought solid snake was too old and ugly. So they made Raiden pretty.

It's like.....it's the stupidest shit ever. But the way it's presented, in combination with the gameplay, just makes you forget about how stupid some of these things are and makes you stare at the screen stupidly as if you just got hit by shakespeare.

MGS is the only game series that can be taken serious, without actually being serious. Like, if Last of Us had a sequel and they introduced Cyborgs and giant robots, it would be laughed at.

 

[Alienous]

Also, why doesn't Big Boss 1 continue commanding FOXHOUND? That's like the only situation that this drivel could have explained, but nope.

There's no reason this all couldn't have happened to one character.

 

[Ishan]

Agree with above posts mgs is not exactly top notch very realistic writing . It's just goofy while throwing in some sensible notions . It's well it's metal gear lol . Now all it needs it some comic books alternate universe timelines stuff so they can keep making more shit up

 

[MissCauthon]

So some people are finished with the game, was Quiet's dressing habit explained.
The reason she is barely dressed, when we knew why, Kojima said we would be ashamed of making a fuss over it.

So, what's the deal with the way she dresses. lol
Where you all ashamed of yourselves when it was mentioned why like Kojima said we all would.

 

[Ishan]

So some people are finished with the game, was Quiet's dressing habit explained.
The reason she is barely dressed, when we knew why, Kojima said we would be ashamed of making a fuss over it.

So, what's the deal with the way she dresses. lol
Where you all ashamed of yourselves when it was mentioned why like Kojima said we all would.

Evidently she breathes thru her skin so clothes suffocate her . You now normal random msg explanation .... Lol

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Yup, and Raiden was included because apparently japanese schoolgirls thought solid snake was too old and ugly. So they made Raiden pretty.

It's like.....it's the stupidest shit ever. But the way it's presented, in combination with the gameplay, just makes you forget about how stupid some of these things are and makes you stare at the screen stupidly as if you just got hit by shakespeare.

MGS is the only game series that can be taken serious, without actually being serious. Like, if Last of Us had a sequel and they introduced Cyborgs and giant robots, it would be laughed at.

I totally agree. It is like where poets or writers can write the same verse or sentence many times and this can be described as an artistic technique from them to reach the minds. Try, you normal person, to repeat the same phrase in your shcool essay and see what the professors tell you.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Why do people say BB gave V the idea of making Outer Heaven? On what basis exactly? It seems like he just tells him to live on and do as he feels no?

Ir until MG1 is patched in!

But Snake only burns him in MG2.

I still think MSX MG1 will be moded in TPP or GZ. And Chico and his headphone jack, some on, there has to be something about this.

BTW: anyone has a katana in the game? There was one in one of the motion capture sessions.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Why do people say BB gave V the idea of making Outer Heaven? On what basis exactly? It seems like he just tells him to live on and do as he feels no?

Venom was pretty much brainwashed into thinking he was BB, to the point where when the real BB comes in and tells him to fuck off, Venom kinda just mentally breaks down and continues being BB.

 

[rrc1594]

So BB didn't turn out to be a warmongering monster lame. The body switch thing was a dick move, but I wouldn't call it "evil".

 

[MissCauthon]

Evidently she breathes thru her skin so clothes suffocate her . You now normal random msg explanation .... Lol

BAhahaha

"Kojima : But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

I really wan't to know if it was made clear why tho.

 

[PLASTICA-MAN]

Why do people say BB gave V the idea of making Outer Heaven? On what basis exactly? It seems like he just tells him to live on and do as he feels no?

No, if you listen to the conversation between Ocelot and Miller after the credits, Ocelot says to Miller we need to support this Big Boss to create Outer Heaven until the real one comes with his nation (Zanzibar Land). and in the timeline at the end of the game: in 1995 Big Boss creates Outer Heaven and Snake kill Big Boss' phantom. Outer Heaven was a decoy, a mercenary unit until Big Boss finishes buliding his own nation of soldiers.

 

[Alienous]

I don't know where to ask this, so I'll just ask it here. I don't know how big a spoiler it is, since I don't know if I understood the scene correctly. To be sure, don't check unless you've finished the game or whatever:

Spoiler

So I just finished the prologue, but did I misunderstand what just happened? Did the doctor make me create a face, then say that he changed it to Big Boss' face? So I'm not playing as Big Boss or what?

I think I just misheard the dialog due to some distractions, but the guy who saved me even said "you're talking to yourself" when I asked him who he was and he did some big boss stuff throughout the whole prologue while I was some wimp.

He was planning a surgery that got interupted, as I understood it.

 

[crazyrabbits]

Yes, if you import a Ground Zeroes save.

I'm not sure if it's available outright, or you have to develop it / reach a certain lvl or mission.

The scans from yesterday show that the SV-Sneaking Suit is a level 1 suit and costs 40000 GNP to develop. Probably available at the beginning of the game.

What I'm still not sure about is the Master Certificates. It seems the upgrades for the Gold/Silver Naked Snake camo are there, but I'm unsure if you get the certificates from various feats in-game, or if it's tied to something from Ground Zeroes.

For instance, there's a "Master Certificate (Fulton)" item, but it's an Rank 3 upgrade, not top-tier. Why they'd give you a random mid-tier upgrade when you can get better stuff down the road only makes sense if it's a bonus from GZ. Same with the Silver/Gold-colored Bionic Arms.

 

[KOMANI]

If I see Kojima on my base I am going to use an RPG point blank in his face.

This post... I like.

 

[Ether_Snake]

No, if you listen to the conversation between Ocelot and Miller after the credits, Ocelot says to Miller we need to support this Big Boss to create Outer Heaven until the real one comes with his nation (Zanzibar Land). and in the timeline at the end of the game: in 1995 Big Boss creates Outer Heaven and Snake kill Big Boss' phantom. Outer Heaven was a decoy, a mercenary unit until Big Boss finishes buliding his own nation of soldiers.

I see. But I don't agree that he's just a decoy, it doesn't sound like that when he speaks to him.

I think BB didn't want to keep going down the path he was on, so he "drew the venom out of himself" and put it in someone else, as if it was a part of himself that had a right to exist. Continuing to fight Cipher/Skullface would make him go evil. For all we know, medic was dead, we got zombies in this game anyway. So "Venom" would be like some sort of voodo doll, a big ritual for BB to cleanse himself, but at the same time someone BB wouldn't want to kill because in a way Venom is like the soldiers who feel they have to live on the battlefield, that BB has been fighting for. So he just lets him be, separately from himself. BB feels he wants to create a nation for soldiers, for the same reason he would have post-MGS3 after the end with The Boss. It makes sense.

Years later, he has Venom taken out by Solid Snake, partially out of pity for Venom. Maybe, Venom wanted to die by then. Zanzibar is the "true" Outer Heaven, while Outer Heaven is the fruit of Venom, of Big Boss' evil side, and eventually it had to be expunged. But in MG2, Cipher/AIs have BB taken out by Snake anyway, who thinks "Big Boss" is back, there is no escape, and again by now Big Boss probably expected that outcome too. It even mirrors The Boss' end, both regarding BB's own death, and his successor going on their own path.

I think it works. MGS4 doesn't work, but it already doesn't considering all the emphasis BB and Eva and co. put on all being about BB and Zero fighting each other and not being friends at all.

Yay, MGS4 is no longer canon!

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Actually MGS4 would still work because by the time Zero goes into the coma, the Patriot AI had already started mutating and going rampant.

The Patriot AI has nothing to do with the clash between Zero/BB. It's simply a successor to Zeros will that was mutated and corrupted.

 

[lyricaldanichan]

If anyone cares here is the Man Who Sold the World cover they got because licencing Bowie is probably a pain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLoytewvn0g

Bummer!

I was hoping it was either the Bowie or Nirvana version.

 

[Ether_Snake]

Actually MGS4 would still work because by the time Zero goes into the coma, the Patriot AI had already started mutating and going rampant.

The Patriot AI has nothing to do with the clash between Zero/BB. It's simply a successor to Zeros will that was mutated and corrupted.

What I mean is that Big Boss is still there in MGS4, which would be useless, since his whole point according to himself and Eva is "Zeroooooo!". He's not going out looking to beat the AIs, just finding Zero so he can kill him and die. He could have just let Snake kill him back in MG2.

Edit: BTW what is the track that plays during the "Man who sold the world"? There's another one than the Bowie one.

 

[KOMANI]

This was supposed to be the missing chapter in Metal Gear.... But what it did was create room for another missing piece... This shit is crazy man.