SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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Seems more symbolic to me.
Not only is the logo wrong, and it doesn't represent the 1995 Outer Heaven logo, but also Venom Snake hasn't aged a single day.
Yeah, what a surprise.
Stallion Dan
Member
Why do the female soldiers sound like they're gonna have an asthma attack after sprinting for 2 seconds?
If we're talking about "us" then I did some pretty amazing things in Phantom Pain, easily on the level of what Naked Snake achieved before. Sniper Wolf should be damn lucky to meet by avatar.
Metal Gear Solid 6 is a game set between MGS and MGS2.
It explains that the Solid Snake we played as during MGS actually DID die of FOXDIE at the end, and the one we play as in MGS2 is some random soldier who somehow was just as good as the original, and carries on his legacy.
"It's good because it's meta!", a bunch of people would say.
Quite so. This BB seems like a pretty amazing soldier.
Hands of Stone
Member
11 years is a hell of a long time, especially a man who's already in his early to mid 40's.
Give me some salt and pepper hair at least!
Well that was more to clear up who died in what and make it so that Solid didn't kill the same person twice. It also serves as shitty closure to the game in that you know what happens to Venom.
By all accounts though, almost everybody thought it was Big Boss and Venom treats himself as such. Whoever Venom was before, it doesn't matter, he is BB now.
Death Metalist
Member
Going by what was available of Mission 51, it changes absolutely nothing about the status Quo.
He's made of plastic. Give the man a break.
EmCeeGramr
Member
To change the topic to less slapfights over hairsplitting, it's also really funny that everyone thought this game was going to be all about Big Boss turning evil and becoming a demon, but really it's NotBoss almost always making the most heroic decisions in any given situation while instead Kaz and Huey both turn into massive hateful pricks
like
finally, we get to hear about how the guy who gave mostly useless hints in an MSX game and otacon's dad who was mentioned like three times before he turned out to be a harmless goober who laughed at big boss believing in santa claus actually both became monsters, yes
it's like that one constantly edited comic
Kojima: Okay, we're making a game about Big Boss finally turning evil. Any ideas?
Employee 1: A fake Big Boss.
Employee 2: Side characters were actually evil.
Bored Employee 3: Just make Big Boss turn evil.
Kojima: *glares*
[employee thrown out window]
like
finally, we get to hear about how the guy who gave mostly useless hints in an MSX game and otacon's dad who was mentioned like three times before he turned out to be a harmless goober who laughed at big boss believing in santa claus actually both became monsters, yes
it's like that one constantly edited comic
Kojima: Okay, we're making a game about Big Boss finally turning evil. Any ideas?
Employee 1: A fake Big Boss.
Employee 2: Side characters were actually evil.
Bored Employee 3: Just make Big Boss turn evil.
Kojima: *glares*
[employee thrown out window]
WrenchNinja
Member
why does he need to clear it up if it doesn't matter
Gabriel_Logan
Member
In hind-site I actually would have liked Venom killing Big Boss and assuming his identity fully.
Just because almost everybody thinks he is Big Boss doesn't make him the real Big Boss, though. And Kojima himself makes this distinction in the credits. If Kojima wanted to tell us that they are both Big Boss now, then it wouldn't have been necessary to make that distinction.
Yep. As I said before, one huge wasted opportunity after another.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
I mean, obviously it's a time skip. Intrude N313 happens right after Grey Fox infiltrates Outer Heaven.
However not everyone knows what Operation Intrude is, so I kinda think they should have handled it better to really show this was a time skip and the start of MG1.
I mean, all that smoke and shit was probably due to Grey Fox infiltrating and fucking shit up or something, right? Or is it a literal "everything was smoke and mirrors" type of thing?
I would be fine if this happened after MGS4 and the real Solid Snake was young again.
Changes nothing but explains how Metal Gear S (not typing that name) is removed and sets up that final key motivation scene for Liquid, which transfers into what becomes of him in MGS1.
Big Boss clearly the main protagonist of the series.
I find it more hilarious how a lot of people were on the A HIDEO KOJIMA GAME boat, but are now turning a 180 mainly because of the Venom shtick.
Again closure for this game. Otherwise the audience would have no clue as to what happens to Venom after this as he's not alluded to afterwards.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
BURN IT DOWN, BURN IT ALL DOWN!
"But Solid Snake isn't a person, it's a title. Technically he is Solid Snake! They're the same!
Given what has happened already, Eli seems pretty primed for MGS1.
Except Big Boss, or at least Naked Snake / MG2 Big Boss is not evil as shown in MGS4. He was trying to bring liberty, freedom outside systems and constructs around them. He just did it the wrong way, and it took his son, David to complete the task he couldn't.
Goodness gracious. No. Old Snake was the best rendition of Solid Snake ever, and a very important step in his final character development. The man is now dead. Let him rest.
[/QUOTE]I guess you could call it...
Meta Gear.
Exactly. Fuck that noise.
So NOW you are making distinctions between the in-game characters and we, the audience?
WrenchNinja
Member
By kidnapping people, making child soldiers, trying to create perpetual war, and owning a giant robot with a nuke
oh yeah, totally on the up and up
Death Metalist
Member
My CE is arriving tomorrow, I look forward to the documentary disk. Hopefully we get more clearer answers on there but I doubt it.
It's both. The characters in the game generally don't know the difference and it largely doesn't matter.
For the audience, one of the major themes of the game is that anyone can be Big Boss. It's very similar to MGS2 with Solid Snake in that regards.
MGS4 didn't change a thing of his characterization from MG2:SS. It only added a new motivation.
But the man STILL started wars, recruited the orphans and sent them to other wars. This guy wanted a world perpetually stuck in war, a place where soldiers would always have a place.
MGS4 changed nothing regarding that. Big Boss was far from being altruistic.
So, if Kojima meant for the audience to accept that there's only one Big Boss divided into two people, why did he feel the need to make the distinction between the two, even going as far as to call the fake one a "phantom"?
X
Xpike
Unconfirmed Member
only thing this game did was hopefully making everyone realize Solid Snake is the better protagonist
TheAquaticApe
Member
What did you do???
EmCeeGramr
Member
Prior to MGSV and Venom Snake being of some level of responsibility for Outer Heaven in 1, Big Boss: held the world hostage with nuclear weapons twice, (let's not forget that Outer Heaven and Zanzibarland were founded by, uh, taking over land from people who already lived there; Outer Heaven was full of POWs of people captured while resisting OH, and Zanzibar itself became a problem because it was raiding neighboring countries) kidnapped people to force them into weapons research, raised child soldiers, betrayed his own son, and was trying to create a world of amoral perpetual war without purpose.
The Patriots were a bad system, but Big Boss was no tragically misunderstood saint by any means.
So the audience isn't incredibly confused by what is happening?
Hands of Stone
Member
With especially how Kojima claimed it'd be "too big to clear", I gotta assume there was supposed to be another 2 chapters at least.
And why would that be important? The audience has to accept that Big Boss is two men, right? So what if "Big Boss is killed in 1995"? That would only mean he came back to life or something.
If Kojima had to make a distinction it is because he intended for them to be separate men.
WrenchNinja
Member
Great job there
I guess that's all true when you get down to it. Zanzibar Land was full of war orphans raised as child soldiers, and he did kidnap scientists, and he did try to create perpetual war, and he did create a deterrent.
Is that any different then him in Peace Walker or Venom Snake though?
Because one is the original and one isn't. However post MGSV we have no clue who did what and the characters in the game largely treat him the same as the original. Unless additional material comes out, by all accounts they're the same (besides the missing arm stuff haha). The game treats their capabilities as equal.
Not to mention it helps the audience try and make sense as to what happens to Venom at the end.
EmCeeGramr
Member
It's also worth noting that Miller feels betrayed enough by the whole two Big Bosses situation that he vows to raise "his son and his phantom" to send the "real" one to hell.
To be honest, if we're going to return to the whole 1984 parallels, then buying into Venom Snake being Big Boss and just as much part of the legend despite knowing his real identity is doublethink. Same goes for Venom continuing the role of Big Boss despite regaining his true memories at the end. And uh, doublethink, in Orwell, is not good.
To be honest, if we're going to return to the whole 1984 parallels, then buying into Venom Snake being Big Boss and just as much part of the legend despite knowing his real identity is doublethink. Same goes for Venom continuing the role of Big Boss despite regaining his true memories at the end. And uh, doublethink, in Orwell, is not good.
Aaaaah finally! Are we done here?
Exactly. Even the in-game characters that know the ruse don't accept the two men as "one Big Boss". They make clear distinctions between the two and treat them as separate people. As it should be.
Death Metalist
Member
That's why after MGS4 I was like..
That ending was TOO satisfying. I was fine if they never released another MGS game but they did and of course I am not going to be saying no lol.
Well no shit they're two separate people.
Death Metalist
Member
If I'm not mistaken the first truth tape is called doublethink lol.
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