keltickennedy
Member
I would also add that engines don't just make games, people of varying talents do.
SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).
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I would also add that engines don't just make games, people of varying talents do.
MGS V is Peace Walker with an open world. You're wrong.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
According to fans, Kojima cant do no wrong. Amazing how he spent time perfecting weird poses [bathing and what not] for Quiet.But no time to actually finish the game.
Kojima will be remembered for TPP but not as a great story teller but as someone who wasted a ton of his time misleading people and wasting precious time on Twitter.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Witcher 2 wasn't semi open world. It's the same "open world" that FF 14 is, that is a big game cut into small sections that don't grant much freedom from a player movement perspective.
MGSV would have benefited from being semi open world and simply presented the player with large areas to infiltrate. The best sections of MGSV were going into large bases and moving around, the worst parts were doing random busy work in the open world.
No, it's not basically Peace Walker 2, it is Peace Walker 2
snake_eater_raiden
Member
lol. Have you finished both games buddy? Which game has a better story and proper ending to a series? I would like to hear your opinion.
Because it seems you are not following this thread and are jumping on a running train.
I am VERY HAPPY with the gameplay in MGS5 but the story is the biggest slap on the hardcore fanbase,
And Witcher 3's gameplay is awful and nowhere near as dynamic as MGSV's. Like I said, they are nothing alike. Witcher 3 isn't the holy grail of videogames.
You are not giving Medic enough credit. He is Big Boss's best student/soldier just like Big boss was to The Boss. He took a fucking explosion to the face for Big Boss. He woke up after nine years in a coma and then within the hour took out out an entire unit of XOF special forces with a handgun which he used perfectly with a prosthetic hook arm he just received. Within the fortnight he regained all of his muscle mass, got completely comfortable with a prosthetic arm and started infiltrating Spetsnaz guarded bases. Not to mention everything else he does in the game, killing Skulls, Sahalenthrepos etc. He may not be as good Big Boss but he is damn near close to it.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
Thanks for correcting me. There is more:
Bugging the hell out of his employees and making them work and work until his vision of perfection is achieved and then scrapping it since he got a new vision = time waste.
Making stupid non-sensical videos on Joosten = time waste
Doing Hai Hai Hai on that weekly Japanese show = time waste
Taking 7 long years to give us TPP = Time waste
Wasting money to have a special 30 min show just to show off some gameplay = Time waste
There is more. But I believe you get the idea now.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Really? I've heard a lot of praise for Witcher 3's gameplay and even more for it's side mission design (something Kojima should have thought about when desiging Peace Walker 2...)
These are fair complaints, but they are very different games with different objectives in mind.
I think at the end of the day people will remember Witcher 3 as a fully realized game, regardless of what you think about it no one can deny their vision they set out to hit was achieved.
MGSV is a half completed vision. It's a brilliant stealth sandbox but simultaneously an incomplete game with a story that leaves way too many threads open, and second half mission-set that is recycled and lazy.
keltickennedy
Member
Come on....Seriously when was Kojima ever a good story teller?
snake_eater_raiden
Member
I love this post and the sarcasm. You nailed MGS5 story in just a few lines.
Most MGS fans: Kojima the awesomeness, Kojima the greatest developer of all time, Kojima the great story teller, Kojima this and that.
The Sour Truth: Kojima the bullshit story teller post MGS3.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
Some fans believe that lol
SolVanderlyn
Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
One thing I love is that you can even see the difference in personality between the real BB and Venom based on their expressions. Boss always has this determined, burning ambition and confidence to him.
Venom comes off as more reserved and thoughtful. Still the kind of guy who'd be a good leader, and still of course very similar to BB, but his loyal soldier persona shows through more clearly than the strong leader presence BB has.
Venom comes off as more reserved and thoughtful. Still the kind of guy who'd be a good leader, and still of course very similar to BB, but his loyal soldier persona shows through more clearly than the strong leader presence BB has.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
lol. A classic example of a MG fan in denial point. Dont mean to offend that guy but honestly, what a BS reasoning abt witcher 3. Witcher 3 is an amazing game with amazing character development and that guy probably does not know that we play as Geralt not as a body double of his LOL.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Kojima probably had alot less people to work with.
29 ain't shit. The extreme version however...
The Silver
Member
Venom is just a big ol teddy bearOne thing I love is that you can even see the difference in personality between the real BB and Venom based on their expressions. Boss always has this determined, burning ambition and confidence to him.
Venom comes off as more reserved and thoughtful. Still the kind of guy who'd be a good leader, and still of course very similar to BB, but his loyal soldier persona shows through more clearly than the strong leader presence BB has.
MGSV's story is incomplete, Witcher 3's gameplay is incomplete. Like you said, they are nothing alike. Both with flaws too.
It's too early to talk about legacy. MGS games generally aren't forgotten in a week. And MGSV does hold the higher metacritic score.
I'm in denial now for not thinking Witcher 3 is perfect? Alright. Nice discussion.
Are you insinuating that he should have no free time to himself?
Saying this does mgs5 gameplay a huge disservice. They play nothing alike and look nothing alike. There's base building. I'll give you that
falconxcrunner09
Member
Is the extreme version even possible to beat?
I couldn't even kill one of the skulls, and I had pretty good weapons too.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
...did you actually read what I wrote or are you talking about the dude I quoted?
Really agree with this. Simply roaming around the open world isn't much fun.
The core combat and RPG mechanics are not that great in W3. The story and player choice however sets a new benchmark for the industry.
Git güd guys.
I beat both with no problems, actually enjoyed then.
Along with the horrible mission structure.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
It's called intelligent investment. When most of your money is going into bringing Hollywood stars, parties for Quiet VA and marketing that makes no sense...less or more people does not matters.
Remember Kojima had $80 million just to develop the game. This does not include marketing etc.
CDPR did everything in $81 million.
29 is easy. Run away, use rocket launchers and the mounted guns. The mounted guns can kill 2-3 skulls easily.
42 is possible to S Rank but you need sharp reactions to dodge the rocks that come from beneath you.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
That is factually wrong. You are just making assumptions left and right now.
I wouldn't say the gameplay is incomplete at all. You might dislike it (I think it's great), and movement issues have been fixed as well. They have different objectives in mind.
I would not characterize Witcher as incomplete. We're talking about content here. MGS is not a finished game. It's not just the story that is incomplete but literally the gameplay. The entire second half is recycled content! How is that okay? That IMO is one of the worst sins an open world game can commit.
TheLostBigBoss
Banned
Not all budgets are equal, money is money but you have to compare the allocation of that money to staff and what people are paid in Tokyo vs. Poland.
I think Kojima did have a major reason with this games story falling apart at the end, but we also have to remember that he and his team were basically under house arrest for the past six months and I wouldn't find it shocking if productivity took a massive hit with all the restrictions they faced during that period of crunch.
Doctor_Thomas
Member
Recycled content has nothing to do with the gameplay though, it's content. The gameplay doesn't change.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Yup and not only did they have 240 people on hand, but also another 1500 worldwide for game production.
Kojima probably had less than 200 people to work with. Sure you can say 'well kojima had parties for quiets va!!!!!'(citation needed) but at the end of the day, CDPR had alot more hands to work on their game.
MGSV's gameplay, or should I say "combat" is definitely better and diverse compared to Witcher 3. Many ways to tackle, infiltrate.
I would like to see a game with MGSV's diverse gameplay and everything else being Witcher 3 lol
keltickennedy
Member
I needed a fully leveled battle armor and the huge armor piercing sniper rifle before i was able to S rank it. Like I said before, I would just climb up to the top of the air hanger and sniper them. Hunker down to get health back. It wasn't too bad when I found the right plan of attack.
Hole up at the airport and quiet snipe everything with the sinful butterfly or whatever the antimatierial rifle is. That's how I did it for extreme.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
Ever heard about Sutherland?
Also useless videos for fan service?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruj3oeDnXTY
You are right but makes a good case for comparison with Witcher 3.
This statement makes no sense.
It absolutely does change. The mechanics mean nothing if there are no interesting things to do with them. And the second episode of this game is mostly the same missions that you've already done on harder difficulties. I'd be lying if I said I didn't enjoy some of them, but damn is it awful design.
I couldn't be bothered to try and beat it legit like I did 29. For extreme I stood on the roof with a sniper rifle, didn't bother with the qte's, too busy not trying to get 1 hit killed.
Use D-Walker fully decked out with a Gatling Gun. Makes mincemeat out of them.
If you have two troublemakers in one place they'll bother each other and leave everyone else alone.
I dismiss troublemakers myself. I give no fucks.
If Witcher 3's gameplay is flawed and unbalanced, does that not mean that the game is unfinished? Where does one draw the line between finished and unfinished? Witcher 3 is still getting patches for its issues months after release. If it's complete and done, why bother releasing post-launch content?
I do think that MGSV is unfinished, but no way in hell will I ever regard Witcher 3 of higher standard considering its countless issues with bugs, performance and gameplay issues since launch. A complete story does not mean a complete game.
SuperStiltzkin
Member
Kojima stopped being a great story teller after MGS3. People can shit on the story, I know I stopped caring a long time ago. But are we really going to call it a shitty game? This game is fun and it's pretty damn amazing what they were able to accomplish in their first open world game. There are some things that make it feel like a first draft in terms of gameplay (lack of boss fights and more elaborate bases like Camp Omega, OKB Zero, Oil field, Mansion) but everything else feels mechanically whole and complete. If they got a chance to make a follow up game, I'm sure they'd hit it out of the park now knowing what could be done better and improved. But I think a lot of the anger comes from knowing that we won't be getting a follow up. That being said, for being a first draft, it doesn't really play like a first draft.
Story sucked big time, weakest in the series. But the game plays flawlessly and I find myself going back to S-rank missions and genuinely enjoy the challenge of the extreme missions.
Also don't crucify me for being a Kojima apologist. I'm not, really, promise. But Witcher 3 comparisons are stupid. It didn't have multiplayer. Or a base building mechanic. Or buddies. Or a lot of fucking stuff. I mean, you can criticize whether you liked that stuff to begin with, but let's not ignore that implementing multiplayer alone isn't a huge task. No one game is better than the other and neither is comparable on a 1:1 scale.
Story sucked big time, weakest in the series. But the game plays flawlessly and I find myself going back to S-rank missions and genuinely enjoy the challenge of the extreme missions.
Also don't crucify me for being a Kojima apologist. I'm not, really, promise. But Witcher 3 comparisons are stupid. It didn't have multiplayer. Or a base building mechanic. Or buddies. Or a lot of fucking stuff. I mean, you can criticize whether you liked that stuff to begin with, but let's not ignore that implementing multiplayer alone isn't a huge task. No one game is better than the other and neither is comparable on a 1:1 scale.
SkylineRKR
Member
Sinful butterfly will S rank it for you. And I guess you could use the Brennan. Don't feel bad about it. Mission is ass.
snake_eater_raiden
Member
So you are indirectly accepting that Kojima was not able to manage the budget lol. He was unable to find a cost effective method for the product.
You do know that he was the producer as well? He had all the budget under his purview.
Are you also aware how companies and finances work?
Sumio Mondo
Member
Did The Witcher 3's director get fired and The Witcher 3 have an unfinished ending? I honestly have no idea.
Reizo Ryuu
Member
It's extremely easy if you equip a shield, and use the water pistol.
just tank the bullets/melee with the shield while immobilising one of them with the water pistol.
Then just have quite pick them off with the sinful butterfly, should take only 2 hits without armour of 4 with.
keltickennedy
Member
Same here, don't care about the high ranks. Troublemakers are always fired. My mother base is chill.
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