Man, can we just do a Hiimdaisy MGS4/PW/MGSV without her consent?
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Man, can we just do a Hiimdaisy MGS4/PW/MGSV without her consent?
Whatever happened to good ol self satisfaction and pride?
Why won't they be done anymore?
Roufianos
Member
Haha yea. It was basically a promo for a game that we have already bought!
I'd be ok with the ending and the twist if we got to see how Venom took on Outer Heaven and what caused him to deviate from Big Boss' vision, turning him into a villain and forcing Big Boss to put him down.
Can't believe how Kojima thought that this game would complete the missing link in the series
Can't believe how Kojima thought that this game would complete the missing link in the series
Tribes of Trusty
Member
Yeah I think Huey is responsible.
I thought Sins of the Father was reffering to Skully ?
It was a nice subversion of the Xerox Generation trope that was present in Peace Walker (Snake/Otacon and Huey/Big Boss). Hell even the VA were the same.
Phantom hiimdaisy. Reveal at the end of the webcomic
Jintor is officially Venom Daisy
Something something "I'm distancing my self from my parody stuff because I went legit"
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Maybe he never had the intention to close the timeline with this game. He got fired and now he can't make MGSVI
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
He didn't, he was expecting MGS6 to tell that story
IMO
But also, he was fine with leaving the events after MGS2 in the air, with ocelot taking the Ray and going off, if we are to believe that he never wanted to make MGS4
Huey's story is great. Even though we don't get confirmation of his crimes other than Strangelove, it's clear as day he's guilty. He honestly believes his actions are righteous and truthful and thus he'll never admit to anything.
Otacon is the best. Stole his woman and got him to kill himself. He did what V couldn't.
Otacon is the best. Stole his woman and got him to kill himself. He did what V couldn't.
Zombie James
Banned
I think I need to stop listening to YongYea. Yeah, the sneaking gamplay is the absolute best in the series, but this is nowhere close to being the best Metal Gear game.
Eh, cut him some slack.
He's spent an obscene amount of time hyping this game up the past few years.
Nemesis_
Member
It really is disappointing to find that this doesn't truly bridge the gap between the original game and the others.
I feel like at the end of MGS5, as much as I loved it, that nothing really changed beyond a dumb and unnecessary retcon for MG.
Like what was BB doing during the entirety of MGS5 while VS was running around?
Fantastic game but I'm just not convinced that the additions to the story or the Canon were worth the shock of the twist.
Similarly it kind of ruins replays for me, I mentally know I'm not playing as the bad ass Big Boss and instead some randy, but that's just my own perception I guess.
I feel like at the end of MGS5, as much as I loved it, that nothing really changed beyond a dumb and unnecessary retcon for MG.
Like what was BB doing during the entirety of MGS5 while VS was running around?
Fantastic game but I'm just not convinced that the additions to the story or the Canon were worth the shock of the twist.
Similarly it kind of ruins replays for me, I mentally know I'm not playing as the bad ass Big Boss and instead some randy, but that's just my own perception I guess.
Unknown One
Member
The time needed to beat the game and the pacing killed the likes of me wanting to replay the game. I don't think I will.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I will not entirely replay the game, but I will come back from time to time and finish some missions and maybe S-Rank them all 
brandonh83
Banned
I can see this. There's no way in hell I'd ever fully replay it, but I think it might be cool if you could just play the story heavy missions for a more paced, narrative experience.
Count of Monte Sawed-Off
un33dab@dpu$$y
Yeah, I don't see myself ever wanting to fully replay the game. There's just not much that would make me want to come back for more.
Zombie James
Banned
I'm in the exact same boat. I'm seriously considering selling my copy because I can't imagine I'll ever want to grind this out for 50+ hours again. The secret patching/MSX stuff is the only thing that's keeping me intrigued right now.
Unknown One
Member
The thing is, the bosses and the story is not memorable at all. This game has the worst boss fights, if you could even call it boss fights that is. There is hardly any story. So replaying it will just be me is just sneaking around capturing soldiers, which I have done 1000x doing the countless side ops. I'm burned out.
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
I will replay it again, i want to kill Quiet next time and see what happens.
I won't be worried about the base building or about recruiting soldiers.
I won't be worried about the base building or about recruiting soldiers.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Finished proper. Honestly I don't really give a shit about the gigantic retcon, at least in theory. It's dumb and goofy and I'm fond of the idea of Big Boss's legacy/reputation kind of being a muddled fabrication of misinformation and lies. MGS4 already touched on this, Eva stating Zero embellished the legend with fantasy to suit his purpose. I also like the seeming fourth wall break and took it as the player being spoken to; you're Big Boss. In a game that was largely about agency and huge diversity in how missions play out, I kind of took that as the point: Big Boss is your history that you're making. I think the game tries to do this on another level with the quarantining issue.
That being said I also think this concept, something I'm fine with, was handled badly as there are still fairly significant gaps that remain unfilled. How/why Big Boss returned to the US and lead Foxhound still makes no sense, unless he decided to realign himself with Zero. The actual specifics are left unresolved.
But more to the point, Big Boss descending into a villain remains undercooked. I don't even care if it's Big Boss or Phantom Boss. I'm fine with the stupid SECOND BIG BOSS twist. But neither is given plausibility for creating Outer Heaven as it is and becoming villainous. Phantom Boss is, in reality, a pretty fucking good guy (unless you play a psychopath. The timeline and motives are still muddy and unconvincing.
Moreover, I feel the entire game's arc should have been condensed. The whole chapter 1/chapter 2 thing does not work in my opinion. The quest to destroy Skullface (the worst villain in the series, mind you) should have been attached to concurrent events from chapter 2. For example I think the quarantine issue would have been made more effective if it was straddled with the massacre; you're forced to comb over troops, place them in quarantine, you get a cure but it's too late. You can only save those at risk of infection, but those you've placed in quarantine are too far gone and you have to expunge the very people you put there. That cut Eli/Mantis stuff really should have been in the game too.
So I dunno. Random shitfart thoughts.
That being said I also think this concept, something I'm fine with, was handled badly as there are still fairly significant gaps that remain unfilled. How/why Big Boss returned to the US and lead Foxhound still makes no sense, unless he decided to realign himself with Zero. The actual specifics are left unresolved.
But more to the point, Big Boss descending into a villain remains undercooked. I don't even care if it's Big Boss or Phantom Boss. I'm fine with the stupid SECOND BIG BOSS twist. But neither is given plausibility for creating Outer Heaven as it is and becoming villainous. Phantom Boss is, in reality, a pretty fucking good guy (unless you play a psychopath. The timeline and motives are still muddy and unconvincing.
Moreover, I feel the entire game's arc should have been condensed. The whole chapter 1/chapter 2 thing does not work in my opinion. The quest to destroy Skullface (the worst villain in the series, mind you) should have been attached to concurrent events from chapter 2. For example I think the quarantine issue would have been made more effective if it was straddled with the massacre; you're forced to comb over troops, place them in quarantine, you get a cure but it's too late. You can only save those at risk of infection, but those you've placed in quarantine are too far gone and you have to expunge the very people you put there. That cut Eli/Mantis stuff really should have been in the game too.
So I dunno. Random shitfart thoughts.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
There are too many main episodes that feel like Side-Ops, they should've shortened the main mission list.
There are really only 2 reasons for me to replay
1.) To get Quiet back
2.) After doing number 1, proceed to dick around/replay favorite missions occasionally because again, gameplay is pretty good.
EmCeeGramr
Member
I still wonder if Huey was deliberately responsible for anything else other than Strangelove.
The faint possibility exists that he really didn't know what was going to happen to the old Mother Base, or that he really was forced to built ST-84. If true, the reason he keeps lying and making ridiculous excuses is that he feels so guilty about Mother Base, then eventually stopped caring about working for Skull Face for 9 years, then finally became so callous after years of that that he ended up thinking of Strangelove as just another sin of his to add to the pile. He's so desperate to be absolved of it all that he'll make ridiculous excuses and lie even when he doesn't need to.
The faint possibility exists that he really didn't know what was going to happen to the old Mother Base, or that he really was forced to built ST-84. If true, the reason he keeps lying and making ridiculous excuses is that he feels so guilty about Mother Base, then eventually stopped caring about working for Skull Face for 9 years, then finally became so callous after years of that that he ended up thinking of Strangelove as just another sin of his to add to the pile. He's so desperate to be absolved of it all that he'll make ridiculous excuses and lie even when he doesn't need to.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
I think they would have been fine if much of Chapter 2's content had been condensed into Chapter 1 to make for a more cohesive game. What surprised me about Chapter 2 is that despite throwing remixed main missions at me (none of which I did, mind you) there was almost always a new cutscene or new character development every time I went out on the field or returned to Mother Base.
A lot of those developments, if placed in or structured through the Chapter 1 arc, would have helped break it up.
I don't think he was responsible for much other than Strangelove. Even going by MGS2's revelations Huey's underlying personality is that he's a self absorbed egomaniac who throws a tantrum when he doesn't get exactly what he wants. Him defying Kaz/BB to bring in a nuclear inspection team makes sense for his character; he legit thought they were in the wrong with the nuke and that fabricating its non-existence would work. He was also probably forced to work on ST-84, but given his ego he still obsesses over it being his own work. The cut content to me implied Eli was maybe responsible for the mutant strain of parasite nanomachines that ultimately infect the base.
But that doesn't really explain Huey being in contact with DARPA, so *shrug*
You mean, use lethal weapons against her in mission 11? Cause I did that, and I got a scene so neutral, I'm pretty sure the exact one plays no matter how you take her out.
Zombie James
Banned
The pacing in Chapter 2 (when you ignore all the repeat missions) is far, far better than Chapter 1.
Yeah, a dramatic restructuring would really benefit the game.
stump sock
Member
Huey is just a pantywaist Gendo Ikari
I almost feel like Kojima owes Gainax some royalties
I almost feel like Kojima owes Gainax some royalties
Shanks D Zoro
Banned
Can you not actually kill her when you are prompted to?
I will say, yesterday was not a good MGSV day. Fuck those extreme versions of missions.
Fuck Extreme Metallic Archea. Fuck it.
Had just gotten the tapes where Miller more or less said a trial's coming for Huey, and interrogated him on the X-Ray machine leak. Figured that would set up a return trip to MotherBase, but nothing happened. Now in that "waiting till I do stuff" mode, and I assume it's random or tied into that heroism rating.
Fuck Extreme Metallic Archea. Fuck it.
Had just gotten the tapes where Miller more or less said a trial's coming for Huey, and interrogated him on the X-Ray machine leak. Figured that would set up a return trip to MotherBase, but nothing happened. Now in that "waiting till I do stuff" mode, and I assume it's random or tied into that heroism rating.
Even moreso that 46 legit feels like an ending Hideaki Anno would have pulled.
stump sock
Member
"Congratulations, Venom"
brandonh83
Banned
I'm not far enough to make a verdict but I've liked the story enough so far; it isn't cutscene driven but rather information driven if that makes sense, through the tapes and little details. I like the game a lot, but it's the last "Peace Walker" -like MGS that I want. Most things about the game design works well, but I don't really have this lust for a stealth based action game in an open world. Just like most other open world games it falls prey to "well, we have this ridiculously massive world but nothing in it so let's just litter it with meaningless, repetitive drivel." I knew it was going to happen and it did.
I think it works much better as a straightforward, linear-paced thriller. Kojima started dabbling in bloat with MGS3 with the camo stuff and whatnot, then it got worse in MGS4 and well we all know Peace Walker and Phantom Pain. It sounds like I don't like MGSV, I actually love it, but when I talk about it and think about the earlier installments namely 1 and 2, and even 3 and even some of 4, I just miss that awesome forward momentum of the first few. MGS3 had it but MGS4 was too heavy on cutscenes.
For some reason after 3 the series just got way too bloated. I'd like to see something like the original again, more linear but with plenty of open-ended gameplay (being able to approach sections in a multitude of ways) mixed with a tightly paced narrative. I'm not saying it should be littered with two hour cutscenes every few steps but a happy medium can be established. That's just something Kojima has yet to totally nail.
edit: LA LI LU LE LOL I just realized I'm in the spoiler thread
They should have just cut almost all the main missions in Chapter 2 and just made them Side Ops and rename Chapter 2 as epilogue. That way it tightens up the pacing and doesn't give players the wrong expectations.
As it stands, all it does is draw attention to how unfinished the game is.
As it stands, all it does is draw attention to how unfinished the game is.
Relaxing with Eva at his cabin and puffing on his cigar while laughing at that dumb ass medic who got played like a fiddle.
Dick Justice
Banned
What's with this trend of posting screenshots and not bothering to link to the mod in question? Comes across as unbelievably douchey.
Zombie James
Banned
BB was building Outer Heaven (before giving it to Mute Phantom Snake in the 90s for some reason) and being moody about his clones.
Black_Wolf
Neo Member
Honestly, the more I play this game the less it feels like a Metal Gear game.
The open-world changes the dynamics of base infiltration, but in a way, spotting your enemies from literally a mile away and marking them makes it close to impossible to actually get caught / killed. The only way it can become a challenge is if you actively impose limitations upon yourself, like not marking enemies, or not sniping them from the other side of the map.
Part of the MGS experience in previous games is wandering into unknown territory and having to carefully maneuver through it. You never knew what was around the next corner, and you could even miss an enemy if you don't pay enough attention to detail. None of that exists here. You were consistently bumping into new things, keeping the player on their toes at all times in previous games rather than the passive mindset I've adopted in MGS5.
To add to this, the desert setting gets really, really dry (no pun intended). I compare this to MGS4, where we're constantly changing locations (Middle East, South America, Shadow Moses, Outer Haven). Yes, MGS3 and MGS2 technically took place in the same setting as well (the forest and Big Shell, respectively), but there were enough uniquely designed bases / buildings / locations within them that didn't make it feel like I was literally in the same exact place at all times. I miss the uniquely designed set-pieces.
The gameplay and third-person shooter mechanics are at their best here, but I truly feel that the open world hindered the game. So far, pacing is an issue and the barren open world adds to this, as there is literally nothing to do in it that doesn't involve a base. I said this in an earlier thread - Far Cry 3 and 4 have much funner worlds to explore, given the risk posed by the massive variety of wildlife as well as more frequently traveling enemy convoys. All I've been doing here is going from one almost-identical base to another completing almost-identical extraction tasks.
It's still a fun game, I'm still enjoying it, and I do plan to see it to completion. But it's only true strong point is its gameplay, with everything else just falling a bit below my expectations. I feel that it was massively overhyped, especially by the critics' scores, and that it plays less like a traditional MGS game and more like a stream-lined third-person shooter. Not trying to be hateful here . . . but does anyone feel the same, at least on some of these points?
The open-world changes the dynamics of base infiltration, but in a way, spotting your enemies from literally a mile away and marking them makes it close to impossible to actually get caught / killed. The only way it can become a challenge is if you actively impose limitations upon yourself, like not marking enemies, or not sniping them from the other side of the map.
Part of the MGS experience in previous games is wandering into unknown territory and having to carefully maneuver through it. You never knew what was around the next corner, and you could even miss an enemy if you don't pay enough attention to detail. None of that exists here. You were consistently bumping into new things, keeping the player on their toes at all times in previous games rather than the passive mindset I've adopted in MGS5.
To add to this, the desert setting gets really, really dry (no pun intended). I compare this to MGS4, where we're constantly changing locations (Middle East, South America, Shadow Moses, Outer Haven). Yes, MGS3 and MGS2 technically took place in the same setting as well (the forest and Big Shell, respectively), but there were enough uniquely designed bases / buildings / locations within them that didn't make it feel like I was literally in the same exact place at all times. I miss the uniquely designed set-pieces.
The gameplay and third-person shooter mechanics are at their best here, but I truly feel that the open world hindered the game. So far, pacing is an issue and the barren open world adds to this, as there is literally nothing to do in it that doesn't involve a base. I said this in an earlier thread - Far Cry 3 and 4 have much funner worlds to explore, given the risk posed by the massive variety of wildlife as well as more frequently traveling enemy convoys. All I've been doing here is going from one almost-identical base to another completing almost-identical extraction tasks.
It's still a fun game, I'm still enjoying it, and I do plan to see it to completion. But it's only true strong point is its gameplay, with everything else just falling a bit below my expectations. I feel that it was massively overhyped, especially by the critics' scores, and that it plays less like a traditional MGS game and more like a stream-lined third-person shooter. Not trying to be hateful here . . . but does anyone feel the same, at least on some of these points?
Most people in this thread agree with the points you are making.
Roufianos
Member
He was so sure we played as the real Big Boss! Poor Yong.
I'm quite looking forward to hear his thoughts on the ending. I know Daley on the codec didn't like it. He actually semi ruined the ending for me, tweeting that it ruined the canon and that he would now only play the game now as DD staff. That was a pretty dick move as it made it pretty obvious that everyone's suspicions about Venom were true.
EatChildren
Currently polling second in Australia's federal election (first in the Gold Coast), this feral may one day be your Bogan King.
Trying to best use the content available, yeah, Chapter 1 and 2 should have been condensed.
The core arc of Diamond Dogs pursuing Skullface should have been the core, while secondary arcs happened concurrently. Introduction to Eli and his defiance of Big Boss. Running into and finally seeking the corpse of Volgan. Rescuing Huey who is under amounting suspicion along with recovering the mammal pod and associated revelations. Quiet's introduction and companionship developed with Big Boss. Mysterious outbreak at Mother Base forcing your hand at quarantine, leading to seeking out Code Talker, culminating with a developed immunity for most of your crew yet the loss of those you placed in quarantine that you have to purge yourself. And so on.
If the theme is duality, which by the end it was, the story as it is would have benefited by levying that duality in one story arc. Big Boss and the Diamond Dogs begin the story with a straight forward mission to hunt down and destroy Skull Face, but the stress of the mission escalates significantly as Diamond Dogs is eaten away from the inside by paranoia, child soldiers, and the virus. A story of trying to juggle too much at once without ever letting go of revenge, trying to save kids who won't cooperate, look after your own people who are dying (some by your own hand) from a disease, forging bonds with new and old faces amidst the an air of betrayal and paranoia, while also trying to seek revenge on the person you think fucked you over all those years ago.
The core arc of Diamond Dogs pursuing Skullface should have been the core, while secondary arcs happened concurrently. Introduction to Eli and his defiance of Big Boss. Running into and finally seeking the corpse of Volgan. Rescuing Huey who is under amounting suspicion along with recovering the mammal pod and associated revelations. Quiet's introduction and companionship developed with Big Boss. Mysterious outbreak at Mother Base forcing your hand at quarantine, leading to seeking out Code Talker, culminating with a developed immunity for most of your crew yet the loss of those you placed in quarantine that you have to purge yourself. And so on.
If the theme is duality, which by the end it was, the story as it is would have benefited by levying that duality in one story arc. Big Boss and the Diamond Dogs begin the story with a straight forward mission to hunt down and destroy Skull Face, but the stress of the mission escalates significantly as Diamond Dogs is eaten away from the inside by paranoia, child soldiers, and the virus. A story of trying to juggle too much at once without ever letting go of revenge, trying to save kids who won't cooperate, look after your own people who are dying (some by your own hand) from a disease, forging bonds with new and old faces amidst the an air of betrayal and paranoia, while also trying to seek revenge on the person you think fucked you over all those years ago.
Can someone who likes the twist explain why? Like, what does it add to the story, individually and at large, beyond "what a twist!" We're hundreds of pages in and I'm still struggling to understand how anyone at Kojima Productions let this idea gets through. Its so self-evidently fucking stupid.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I don't know about you guys, but I wanted this from the game's story.
- A simple revenge story a la Oldboy.
- Kaz being the guy who infects everybody with his hate and Big Boss and Ocelot are being the ones who are still reasonable.
- This will change after a dramatic even, Miller recognizes that what they're doing wrong and Big Boss getting a demon and Ocelot following him everywhere because he's is basically a fanboy, but he still knows, that what Big Boss is now is wrong.
and this should all lead up to Metal Gear 1.
That's what I wanted.
- A simple revenge story a la Oldboy.
- Kaz being the guy who infects everybody with his hate and Big Boss and Ocelot are being the ones who are still reasonable.
- This will change after a dramatic even, Miller recognizes that what they're doing wrong and Big Boss getting a demon and Ocelot following him everywhere because he's is basically a fanboy, but he still knows, that what Big Boss is now is wrong.
and this should all lead up to Metal Gear 1.
That's what I wanted.
Unknown One
Member
It's already been done, but better in MGS2 since the whole game was designed to toy with the players expectations. The twist is integral to the structure of MGS2, while MGS5 it is not.
To me boss battles is a huge part of MGS, so this game doesn't actually have the best gameplay in the series for me since it has the worst boss fights. It doesn't even have a health bar.
Yeah, I'm pretty much 100% in agreement with you.
It feels like a combination of Far Cry and the most recent Splinter Cell game (Blacklist) more than it does a Metal Gear. It's an entirely different kind of stealth; it's much different to traversing rooms using a radar and a fairly binary spotting system.
The options make for a much more exploitable kind of stealth than before. As you said a lot of the challenge comes from placing restrictions on yourself; 'I'm not just going to prone everywhere because if I did this would be too easy', things like that.
On the locale, I think Peace Walker's Costa Rica had a better variety. Jungles, marshes, ruins, decaying structures, villages, indoor 'Metal Gear' feeling areas. Afghanistan doesn't have that same kind of visual diversity, and Africa's isn't used well, with the jungle being a small segment of the map and the rest being flat, dusty terrain.
On the open world, navigation isn't very fun. It's a chore, and when navigation is a chore you've failed to make a compelling open world game, but a hub-based game with a really cumbersome level selection menu. There are points of interest and nothingness surrounding them. If you don't have a wingsuit, or a parachute, or a grappling hook, or something that makes traversal fun - or a dense enough world to justify more boring traversal - then it's best just to not do the open world at all.
But yeah, it's a fantastic game, but one that has problems outside of its core gameplay mechanics. It has the 'feel' down, with a good feeling of control and 60fps, but it does feel like MGS sacrificed some of its uniqueness to be a slightly-better-than Far Cry 3/4 game, and it's a shame because MGS games are so few and far between.
Still a solid 9/10, though.
Not Spaceghost
Spaceghost
I liked the twist even though everyone saw it coming a mile away. The reason why I liked the twist was because it made the experience have more personal impact I guess? Building Diamond Dogs was no longer a thing Big Boss did it was a thing that I personally did. I was given control of Big Boss' legacy by Kojima and I thought that was pretty neat in a meta narrative way.
Sure it didn't really mean anything to the story, but fucking honestly NOTHING that happens in MGSV means anything to the story. You could axe MGSV from the timeline and the events that follow still make sense since at the end of Peace Walker Big Boss basically declares MSF to be outer heaven.
It explains how Solid Snake killed Big Boss twice. Something nobody gave a flying fuck about.
Zombie James
Banned
wesleyshark
Banned
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