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SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V (TPS) Spoiler Thread (Contains Spoilers, Thanos).

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The twist is stupid and further convolutes the series. I like it for that, and it muddying the history of Big Boss, because I like it when "legend" characters are highlighted for their falsity. I have other issues with the twist, like its overall execution (there is no descent into villainy, men do not become demons), and lack of resolving other key issues (like Big Boss joining FOXHOUND again).

Again, the twist is stupid. But this is Metal Gear. If you were expecting a straight-down-the-road connect-the-dots game that filled in the story with a bit of fun along the way I don't know what to tell you because it's fucking Kojima.
 
EatChildren said:
But more to the point, Big Boss descending into a villain remains undercooked. I don't even care if it's Big Boss or Phantom Boss. I'm fine with the stupid SECOND BIG BOSS twist. But neither is given plausibility for creating Outer Heaven as it is and becoming villainous. Phantom Boss is, in reality, a pretty fucking good guy (unless you play a psychopath. The timeline and motives are still muddy and unconvincing.
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Yeah I'd say Venom and Solid are the 2 most heroic guys in the entire series, Raiden comes close but he has that whole "ripper" side to him.
Something significant has to happen for venom to become an overnight villain.
Or maybe BB had become so bitter and jaded in his fight against zero, he played venom like a puppet during Outer Heaven as well (I mean he kinda does, he sends solid to kill him).
 
Reebot said:
Can someone who likes the twist explain why? Like, what does it add to the story, individually and at large, beyond "what a twist!" We're hundreds of pages in and I'm still struggling to understand how anyone at Kojima Productions let this idea gets through. Its so self-evidently fucking stupid.
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The only good thing about it is that it adds a new character to the franchise. A franchise that is very rich with characters so it is always nice to see a new addition. If a miracle happens and Kojima returns to make MGSVI (or remakes the originals) there will be a story that is very intriguing.
 
Kenzodielocke said:
I don't know about you guys, but I wanted this from the game's story.

- A simple revenge story a la Oldboy.
- Kaz being the guy who infects everybody with his hate and Big Boss and Ocelot are being the ones who are still reasonable.
- This will change after a dramatic even, Miller recognizes that what they're doing wrong and Big Boss getting a demon and Ocelot following him everywhere because he's is basically a fanboy, but he still knows, that what Big Boss is now is wrong.

and this should all lead up to Metal Gear 1.

That's what I wanted.
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I'm super disappointed we didn't get that game, because Kojima knew it was what we wanted, and it was what he was selling.

"Men become demons"

No, they really don't.

Big Boss (or Faux Boss, who we presume is acting as Big Boss would) is nothing less than a hero. The only thing he does that isn't the most morally upright thing he could have done in his situation was give Skull Face a torturous death.

He doesn't kill in cold blood. He doesn't use the people who trust him as pawns in his pursuit of revenge. He doesn't even really want revenge. He doesn't engage in the torture. He does nothing 'demon-y'.

He saves the world. Sacrifices his own comfort in his actions to stop a plague that would change the world.

Big Boss should have had at least the rage Kaz had, even if that meant we had to play as a third character (Gray Fox, for example) to watch the downfall.

It's a missed opportunity.

However, Huey took the opportunity for revenge without remorse. He betrayed his comrades for his own goals of building things that blow shit up. Huey became a demon.
 
I'll repeat that I don't really get anything from the meta aspect because right after the "Big Boss is inside all our hearts!" thing, the ending timeline and post credits convo and post Truth tapes are immediately like, "But seriously, your Canal Street ass Fake Boss died in Outer Heaven while the real one was there for all the really important events."
 
Guys how do i unlock the Kojima rescue mission? I already finished the game doing all the main missions(beside the 50th, Killing Sahelanthropus on Extreme) and all yellow/important side ops, i've also completed a good amount of normal side ops, but nothing yet.
 
In a way, Venom Snake being one of the most heroic characters in the series is logical.

I mean, this was the best man of the Mother Base. He surely saw Big Boss as the ultimate hero, the incarnation of goodness yadda yadda.

It's only fair that him playing the part is of an idealized Big Boss, even subconsciously.

I see it that way.
 
Konami just tweeted that the TGS booth/trailer for MGSV is for Metal Gear Online III, so I think that's the final nail in the coffin for any of the "the game isn't actually over yet!" theories.
 
Zombie James said:
Except Big Boss didn't die at the end of MG1 (21m10s).
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"See you again! ~<3"

naked_snake_smiling_by_solidcal-d53olm6.png
 
Reizo Ryuu said:
Yeah I'd say Venom and Solid are the 2 most heroic guys in the entire series, Raiden comes close but he has that whole "ripper" side to him.
Something significant has to happen for venom to become an overnight villain.
Or maybe BB had become so bitter and jaded in his fight against zero, he played venom like a puppet during Outer Heaven as well (I mean he kinda does, he sends solid to kill him).
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This is my reasoning as well. BB's obsession with "muh boss" and his desire for a soldier's paradise at the end of Peace Walker started to overshadow any sort of heroic traits he had and basically turned into some Machiavellian puppet master like everyone else.

This probably explains going back for FOXHOUND as well - just a means to an end (e.g. resources, possible recruits)

Basically, at least IMO, Big Boss turned into his own demon through something worse than vengeance - his own perceived pretentious self-importance. Thus, resulting in a disregard for anyone else, especially if they get in his way.
 
Yesterday was a terrible day. Shitty day at work, fighting with my wife, hating my job. I get home from work and play TPP all afternoon to relax and after completing a bunch of the later missions, two new missions open up - Quiet apparently left and is in Afghanistan and I have to go find her and possibly kill her, and there's this other mission that opened up. Mission 46. Truth. I actually wanted to do the Quiet mission but didn't really read what I was selecting and played through to the "real" ending. I gotta say, after loving the shit out of this game up till that point, this killed my enthusiasm almost completely. A shitty end to a shitty day.

I played through all this shit and it wasn't even Big Boss? Really? WTF. SO SO disappointing (and this is coming from someone who didn't mind the Raiden twist in MGS 2). I haven't read through this thread or listened to any tapes I might have unlocked, so I'm not sure how they explain him having Boss's memories, and sounding exactly like him. It just all seems really forced and I'm super bummed. Also, The fact that the whole thing with Eli wasn't even finished is another sore spot. I just saw the "deleted scene" for mission 51, and holy cow I can't believe they left this out. This is super important to have some sense of closure to that story arc and it's not even in the game! Ugh. I've been thinking about this stupid twist all day.

I wish Kojima would have given us a better ending. I thought this game was going to be about the downfall of Big Boss, about him turning into a "demon", but I can't say the game showed this at all. Where's that Kevin Sorbo gif?? SO DISAPPOINTED
 
XANDER CAGE said:
Konami just tweeted that the TGS booth/trailer for MGSV is for Metal Gear Online III, so I think that's the final nail in the coffin for any of the "the game isn't actually over yet!" theories.
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Metal Gear Online III is actually MGSV Chapter III

Everyone is Big Boss. Everyone contributes to Big Boss's legend.


THE END.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
I'll repeat that I don't really get anything from the meta aspect because right after the "Big Boss is inside all our hearts!" thing, the ending timeline and post credits convo and post Truth tapes are immediately like, "But seriously, your Canal Street ass Fake Boss died in Outer Heaven while the real one was there for all the really important events."
Click to expand...

By then we become Solid Snake.

Truly the ride never ends.
 
EmCeeGramr said:
I still wonder if Huey was deliberately responsible for anything else other than Strangelove.

The faint possibility exists that he really didn't know what was going to happen to the old Mother Base, or that he really was forced to built ST-84. If true, the reason he keeps lying and making ridiculous excuses is that he feels so guilty about Mother Base, then eventually stopped caring about working for Skull Face for 9 years, then finally became so callous after years of that that he ended up thinking of Strangelove as just another sin of his to add to the pile. He's so desperate to be absolved of it all that he'll make ridiculous excuses and lie even when he doesn't need to.
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I think whether or not he was in cahoots with Skull Face in Ground Zeroes is up in the air and he could have honestly wanted to do right by everyone. However, he still went ahead and called it behind Big Boss' and Miller's back, the two military experts of the organization. I think that puts a fairly large responsibility on his shoulders because they all knew the world had eyes on them for better or worse.

The stuff afterwards is him being super shit. He didn't give up the Sahelanthropus location right away, he put that beta ray module in the scanner that caused the mutations, Strangelove, he told the kids how to repair Saheanthropusl etc. DD could have moved to do a lot more proactively to prevent stuff with that sort of information if Huey wasn't being a fucking asshole and keeping the shit he did to himself. He knew the situation he was in.
 
Man, it is super evident in this game that Kojima had absolutely no idea what to do with the characters he established in Peace Walker (probably because he never intended to continue their stories in the first place).

Literally every single character from PW ends up with either a drastic personality change (Big Boss included), a horrific death, or a complete absence and non-mention.
 
Shouta said:
I think whether or not he was in cahoots with Skull Face in Ground Zeroes is up in the air and he could have honestly wanted to do right by everyone. However, he still went ahead and called it behind Big Boss' and Miller's back, the two military experts of the organization. I think that puts a fairly large responsibility on his shoulders because they all knew the world had eyes on them for better or worse.

The stuff afterwards is him being super shit. He didn't give up the Sahelanthropus location right away, he put that beta ray module in the scanner that caused the mutations, Strangelove, he told the kids how to repair Saheanthropusl etc. DD could have moved to do a lot more proactively to prevent stuff with that sort of information if Huey wasn't being a fucking asshole and keeping the shit he did to himself. He knew the situation he was in.
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Yeah. He lied about shit like never seeing Hal to garner sympathy.

He's just a liar to his core.
 
Berserker976 said:
Man, it is super evident in this game that Kojima had absolutely no idea what to do with the characters he established in Peace Walker (probably because he never intended to continue their stories in the first place).

Literally every single character from PW ends up with either a drastic personality change (Big Boss included), a horrific death, or a complete absence and non-mention.
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lol Cecile and Amanda got off lucky.
 
Tribes of Trusty said:
In a way, Venom Snake being one of the most heroic characters in the series is logical.

I mean, this was the best man of the Mother Base. He surely saw Big Boss as the ultimate hero, the incarnation of goodness yadda yadda.

It's only fair that him playing the part is of an idealized Big Boss, even subconsciously.

I see it that way.
Click to expand...

MMarston said:
This is my reasoning as well. BB's obsession with "muh boss" and his desire for a soldier's paradise at the end of Peace Walker started to overshadow any sort of heroic traits he had and basically turned into some Machiavellian puppet master like everyone else.

This probably explains going back for FOXHOUND as well - just a means to an end (e.g. resources, possible recruits)

Basically, at least IMO, Big Boss turned into his own demon through something worse than vengeance - his own perceived pretentious self-importance. Thus, resulting in a disregard for anyone else, especially if they get in his way.
Click to expand...

I agree with these both.
 
Why does Ocelot have such a boner for BB?
 
dan2026 said:
Really surprised nothing was done with Grey Fox and Solid Snake.

To be honest I would of preferred to see them than young Liquid.
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I think according to the timeline established for Gray Fox, all that stuff already happened with him when the games already occurred which is why we don't see him. Kind of sucks.
 
EatChildren said:
Why does Ocelot have such a boner for BB?
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Who doesn't ?
Wasn't it implied in previous MGS that it was some romantic attraction ?

dan2026 said:
Really surprised nothing was done with Grey Fox and Solid Snake.

To be honest I would of preferred to see them than young Liquid.
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Grey Fox was used in Portable Ops, and well I don't see Kojima re-using anything from that game ever.

Solid Snake technically never new his heritage until the retconned MG2 ending in MGS1, so yeah.
 
I think some people should approach this game the same way I do Max Payne 3. I think it's a good if not great game, but not a good Max Payne game.

If you don't enjoy the story just try to enjoy the gameplay. I know it's not what you wanted and it hurts but... the gameplay is super fun!
 
I just beat it last night.

I loved it.

However, I need answers for the following things [Please don't mention anything from the deleted "Mission 51" from the Limited Edition's Blu-Ray making-of disc. If any of these are answered there, just let me know that and don't answer the question here. I am going to watch the Blu-Ray tonight].

1). I didn't understand the "Operation Intrude N313" tape side B screeching sound - what was that?

2). I missed the following scenes that were shown in the trailers: Snake walking through the burned African village then screaming in the smoke, Kaz taking off his glasses revealing his white eyes and the soldiers fighting where Snake intervenes and makes the soldier stab himself.

That is all for right now I think. ;)
 
In my opinion Kojima did this to take revenge on all the MGS2/Raiden haters, indeed in MGSV we control the real Big Boss only in the prologue Ground Zeroes, and we play as another character through the whole The Phantom Pain, just like in MGS2 we played as Solid Snake just in the prologue, while we played the main part of the game as Raiden.
Only that this time Kojima told us the truth just at the very end, avoiding pre-haters and fooling us all once again
 
Tribes of Trusty said:
Who doesn't ?
Wasn't it implied in previous MGS that it was some romantic attraction ?
Click to expand...

Also, a lot of people in MGS are bi anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if Ocelot was outright bi/gay.

I mean, we never have solid evidence either that he's heterosexual.
 
Deckard Chapel said:
1). I didn't understand the "Operation Intrude N313" tape side B screeching sound - what was that?

2). I missed the following scenes that were shown in the trailers: Snake walking through the burned African village then screaming in the smoke, Kaz taking off his glasses revealing his white eyes and the soldiers fighting where Snake intervenes and makes the soldier stab himself.

That is all for right now I think. ;)
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1°) Older video game consoles and home computers used tapes as cartridges, it would read it for some time before loading the program. It would make that kind of sound when they were put in an audio device.
It's a throwback to Metal Gear 1, as you see a MSX (MGS's original console) and Operation Intrude N..(you don't see the number IIRC) could refer to N312 (Gray Fox's failed attempt to infiltrate Zanzibar) or N313 (Solid Snake's successful attempt).

2°) The only one I recall from the game is Kaz showing his eyes at the beginning, that's all.
 
I've gotten over the main twist and have learnt to accept it, but I am bothered by the thing with the Medic's passport and Ocelot suggesting "you should change your face too." I hope that is just a throwaway line/meta thing only and not some stupid explanation for Solid Snake not realizing he was related to Big Boss in FOXHOUND. After Kojima's need to explain the two "deaths" in the MSX games i'm not so sure. But then how does Solid Snake being tricked into thinking he killed Big Boss in MG1 make sense if he never looked like his commander as Snake knew him in the first place? It simply doesn't work unless he changes his appearance back.
 
MMarston said:
Also, a lot of people in MGS are bi anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if Ocelot was outright bi/gay.
.
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I don't recall that many LBGT characters in the MGS series :
- Volgin
- Ocelot maybe
- Vamp
- Fortune's dad (the Marine) which was because Vamp changed from a woman to a man during development.

Dick Justice said:
mgs4-smooch-o.gif
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I imagine what went through Old Snake's head during this. Like, "WTF LIQUIIIIIIIIIIIID"

Doctor_Thomas said:
I want a Skull Face game. Tactical Espionage Paperwork. Making sure Big Boss can't fail. Some sort of RTS game.
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That would be pretty awesome.
It would be very difficult based on my first experience of MGS3

SnakeLinkSonic said:
I dunno, Miller gives Ocelot a serious run for his money in this game. There's like four or five heavy slash moments between Miller and Venom.

COZFVV6UAAEDD1l.png
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Yeah I wondered if they were going to smooch several times during the game.
 
Tribes of Trusty said:
1°) Older video game consoles and home computers used tapes as cartridges, it would read it for some time before loading the program. It would make that kind of sound when they were put in an audio device.
It's a throwback to Metal Gear 1, as you see a MSX (MGS's original console) and Operation Intrude N..(you don't see the number IIRC) could refer to N312 (Gray Fox's failed attempt to infiltrate Zanzibar) or N313 (Solid Snake's successful attempt).

2°) The only one I recall from the game is Kaz showing his eyes at the beginning, that's all.
Click to expand...

I thought that since it showed the MSX - but the game released on a cartridge, not a tape. That is what confiseed me about that.

Yeah, I would love a point of reference for all the scenes from the trailers that are miss-able in the game like the Mother Base soldiers fighting with Snake in the rain and Snake making one of them stab him.
 
Tribes of Trusty said:
Yeah I wondered if they were going to smooch several times during the game.
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Venom totally had digs for Quiet though. Also, it's not like it was the real BB anyway.



Wait a minute



Dude in love with guy who's been in an 9 year coma, but turns out is not the actual guy but looks like him and loves someone else?


This...this is a K-Drama isn't it?
 
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