You good folks forgot the last time this happened, they had to run crying to Platinum Games, because they had a weird concept they couldn't make fun (or work, for that matter)? At least the gameplay in MGSV is pretty fucking great.
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- Thread starter Love Deterrence
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Kenzodielocke
Banned
So is Kaz blind or fucking what ?
He cant be. Otherwise how does he get around?
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Then why the fuck is up with his eyes ?
piccio_ssl
Member
wolbachia son
adamsapple
Or is it just one of Phil's balls in my throat?
Probably a result of the torture, he seems to feel pain looking at/in light, that's what i got from the scene when he needs glasses when Snake rescues him.
Zomba13
Member
akidnamededdy
Banned
Well the biggest problem they had with the original Rising was the gameplay, if I remember correctly, and it was coz they were leaning more into a genre they didn't understand.
The gameplay in this one is awesome, yeah, that's not the part I have a problem with here. It's all the plot stuff that sucks out loud, and that's the part I'm looking forward to someone else's take on.
It should be noted also that Rising, in your example, ended up having the least amount of Kojima influence on the plot of any modern MG game, and people loved it. It was insane and stupid but in the best possible way, not like this game.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
But Code Talker has the same eye color.
sammyCYBORG
Member
I agree that the story was so crap that someone else could take this engine and gameplay formula and make a great game.
Kojima isn't the be all that people make out.
Kojima isn't the be all that people make out.
I get fucking mad when I read shit like this:
Yeah I mean no woman would ever view Quiet as a power fantasy right?
Not necessary. But Code Talker can't see by himself anymore and have parasites doing that for him. If Miller was truly blinded, he too could've profited from those eye parasites.
It's implied that someone is using parasites to see what Kaz sees. There's a scene where code talker is "communing" with parasites and everything he notices is stuff Kaz saw.
Nah. He's blind, he just doesnt want to confess it when rescued.
Then he goes all "From now! You are my eyes!" and takes his glasses off, revealing he has been blind all along.
Also.
Hos the fuuuuuuck are we supposed to extract all the tanks and shit in "A Quiet Exit"?
Not even the full-on real Stealth camo works.
TickleMeElbow
Member
Finished "The Truth" mission last night. I understand why some people are salty, but goddamn that shit was fucking shamalamadingdong crazy. Like, holy shit. I'm actually pretty satisfied with how it ended. Just saw the mission 51 cutscene, and that's cool I guess. Don't really feel like fighting that thing a second time at this point.
But yeah, I thought my avatar looked okay in the creation screen, but in the cut scene at the end he looked stupid as fuck lol. Wish I spent more time making it look better. Wanted to hurry up and get on with the game, so I sort of half assed it after getting frustrated with all the options. If you change it in "customize", does it change if you replay the last mission? I might have to do that just because it sort of fucked up the end for me. Like, it's all dramatic and intense, but then I see the goofy ass avatar I made lol.
Fucking knew something was kind of "off" when the AI Pod was all "Jack? Oh, you're not him...." or whatever. Thought it might've had something to do with the arm and horn. Then when Volgin got a good look at Venom and suddenly backed off and died, I was like "damn, maybe Venom has been infected this whole time, and the parasites "changed" him". Didn't expect him to be the goddamn medic from GZ.
Also, I completed mission 46 and still have Quiet.
I know she goes away for good if I complete mission 45, so I guess I'll avoid that shit until I either do everything else there is to do, or I'm tired of playing and want to see everything.
Or.....just keep her forever lol.
But yeah, I thought my avatar looked okay in the creation screen, but in the cut scene at the end he looked stupid as fuck lol. Wish I spent more time making it look better. Wanted to hurry up and get on with the game, so I sort of half assed it after getting frustrated with all the options. If you change it in "customize", does it change if you replay the last mission? I might have to do that just because it sort of fucked up the end for me. Like, it's all dramatic and intense, but then I see the goofy ass avatar I made lol.
Fucking knew something was kind of "off" when the AI Pod was all "Jack? Oh, you're not him...." or whatever. Thought it might've had something to do with the arm and horn. Then when Volgin got a good look at Venom and suddenly backed off and died, I was like "damn, maybe Venom has been infected this whole time, and the parasites "changed" him". Didn't expect him to be the goddamn medic from GZ.
Also, I completed mission 46 and still have Quiet.
I know she goes away for good if I complete mission 45, so I guess I'll avoid that shit until I either do everything else there is to do, or I'm tired of playing and want to see everything.
Or.....just keep her forever lol.
Ether_Snake
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Wouldn't surprise me if Platinum Games made the next MG in some way.
People loved it ironically.
People loved the absurd plot to Rising because it went full camp and it fit with the gameplay and Platinum's style of game design and RULES OF NATURE and all of that.
If those people were writing Big Boss going Nuclear, that tone would've been complete shit.
And i'm sure if Rising was a regular entry in the series, people also wouldn't be as favorable to it (story wise).
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Every MGS is somewhat appreciated ironically, because it's a lot of camp, and a lot of plot holes and a lot of cheese and all that, but it's usually a very peculiar balance it strikes, and it also nails some dramatic moments that you still feel, here and there (as cheesy as they may get).
Rising i think goes in the extreme camp direction and doesn't look back, which is fine for a spin off of sort, but wouldn't be for a main entry, in my opinion.
DodgyTaZombie
Member
Considering that quite has to
A. Be half naked or she dies and
B. Gains super powers from a rape attempt
Probably limits her ability to be a power fantasy. I mean, depending on who you hang out with.
akidnamededdy
Banned
The man is a genius for sure and has done some truly great stuff. I feel like he's just been tired of MGS for a long time now and the plot's been suffering for it.
I know Ishida's gonna be in here in like five seconds to tell me I'm an idiot but I always got the impression that MGS4 was the way it was because Kojima was essentially being "forced" to answer all these lingering questions from MGS2 that he never really intended or wanted to answer (and truthfully they didn't need answering). Everything was overexplained, usually with nanomachines, and then to top it all off his original intention was to kill Snake and Otacon at the end. It's also kind of funny to imagine Old Snake as Kojima's avatar, old and tired and just getting shuttled off to all these crazy plot contrivances and just coughing and sighing and giving off a very "I'm fucking done with this shit" vibe.
Bottom line is that the dude can pull off some very interesting stories when he's inspired and I don't think MGS has inspired him for a while.
Well, Rising also had a serious side if you wanted it (Doc had a TONNE of inanely detailed dialogue about nanotech, there was some pretty decent discussion on the political situation of Ukraine etc in that first mission) but it really did nail the absolute insane camp factor of Metal Gear.
But a mainline Metal Gear first and foremost needs to be serious with the occasional moment of camp. (I think MGS2 is probably the best example, with this big complex very serious military-political plot broken up every few paces with this really dumb thing that is hilarious... presidential crotch grabs, secret Philanthropy handshakes, slow motion walk, possessed arms)
Mind you I think Rising's main plot is better written than MGSV's ultimate plot at least in that you can work out purely based on the mandatory cutscenes what is going on, unlike MGSV where I had no fucking clue what Skull Face's actual plot or allegiances were until Ocelot laborously explained the plot on cassettes. Admittedly this is because the final boss just monologues his plan at you, but still.
But a mainline Metal Gear first and foremost needs to be serious with the occasional moment of camp. (I think MGS2 is probably the best example, with this big complex very serious military-political plot broken up every few paces with this really dumb thing that is hilarious... presidential crotch grabs, secret Philanthropy handshakes, slow motion walk, possessed arms)
Mind you I think Rising's main plot is better written than MGSV's ultimate plot at least in that you can work out purely based on the mandatory cutscenes what is going on, unlike MGSV where I had no fucking clue what Skull Face's actual plot or allegiances were until Ocelot laborously explained the plot on cassettes. Admittedly this is because the final boss just monologues his plan at you, but still.
Yes.
Tell that to a Quiet cosplayer.
Though I agree with you, it's not like being tricked into murdering your family is most people's idea of being cool either. I don't think Quiet is a power fantasy, but Kratos sure as hell ain't mine.
Yes. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Roufianos
Member
I well and truly despise this game. The last thing I want is a poster on my wall to remind me of the disappointment that was MGSV.
Taking the hate to a new level xD
Just wait until MGS6 comes out and as per usual the bandwagon will swing in the other direction and everyone will love MGSV and you can sell it for bigbux.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Oh yeah, I'm not saying that same tone would be appropriate for what's supposed to be a "mainline" MGS game. I'm just saying, ironically or not, people loved it, whereas I can see a lot of people being upset with this game's plot.
Incidentally, I've always considered Rising to be canon and never understood why people don't--it's the latest game in the timeline so it doesn't exactly affect anything. So one thing I did like about V's plot is that it sort of cements Rising as canon with the whole "Cipher has been holding back knowledge/technology from the masses" thing that they use in Rising to explain why cyborg technology suddenly exploded after the fall of SOP.
Well, i mean if you like being an object sure. Quiet literally does nothing other than what you tell her while being tortured and oogled by the camera and characters. I mean, i don't really think showing off my ass in a helicopter is powerful.
She gets a few brief scenes which aren't connected to the needs of the story of the game at all
Nothing that happens in MGS happens with the help of quiet, she's basically a side-storyThe game is great though, don't let a dumb twist completely ruin it for you. After all...
sammyCYBORG
Member
Nope, MGS4 is still the worst game ever made.
akidnamededdy
Banned
Well, i mean if you like being an object sure. Quiet literally does nothing other than what you tell her while being tortured and oogled by the camera and characters. I mean, i don't really think showing off my ass in a helicopter is powerful.
She gets a few brief scenes which aren't connected to the needs of the story of the game at all
I can see how she could have been a great character and I can see how Kojima's crush on the model probably ruined that.
Ah yes, attacking the agency of women. Bravo.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
I've made up my mind regarding future MGS games. If it holds the gameplay quality of MGSV I will buy it, doesn't matter if there is no Kojima attached to it. It's not like it mattered in this game anyway.
A Tomokazu Fukushima Game
Bosses and gameplay are great, return to Shadow Moses is nice. What more do you want!
Roufianos
Member
The game is great though, don't let a dumb twist completely ruin it for you. After all...
It already has though. Before the ending, I absolutely loved the gameplay and although I thought the story was pretty poor, I assumed it would pick up towards the end.
After learning of the twist though I can't even play the game for more than a few side ops, I just feel so betrayed.
I just can't forget what I've seen. MGS has been my favourite piece of entertainment since I was 5 years old so I can't just forget all of the broken promises and treat this as any other fun to play game. My emotional attachment to the series is just too strong.
sammyCYBORG
Member
Wrong.
I want good gameplay, a good story, good pacing, good performance. Good anything. Worst game ever.
Great to see this is a return to form, even with a lackluster story.
Fuck 4.
I liked Quiet a lot except for her stupid outfit and her stupid helicoptor poses and her stupid as fuck rain dance scene
as a character, i thought she emoted really well, facially, in actions etc. Given that she had the same motion capture actor as va, I guess I can attribute that to her just being good
better than a frigging B&B unit.
as a character, i thought she emoted really well, facially, in actions etc. Given that she had the same motion capture actor as va, I guess I can attribute that to her just being good
better than a frigging B&B unit.
SictorVullivan
Member
Atleast MGS4 has a semi satisfying plot and conclusion. The gameplay is inferior to MGSV for sure but the plot is just leagues ahead (never ever thought I would say that).
Well i expressed my hatred for audiologs many times in the past (i find them a very lazy narrative device, and almost no one does them well) so i feel you when you say crucial stuff is relegated to them.
Personally i don't think MGSV's plot is total shit like some, i think it has the right ingredients, put together in the wrong manner.
And i don't even mind big plot holes too much (such as why can't Quiet write down shit in English? Why can't people just not speak Kikongo until a cure is found? etc) otherwise i wouldn't be able to appreciate ANY MGS, since they're all full of implausibilities and plot holes.
The biggest betrayals of expectations I had, were:
1) Pacing.
2) Tone.
The pace is completely fucked for reason explained multiple times in the thread, where in Chapter 1 nothing happens for about 40 hours, and as soon as you get to Chapter 2, shit gets rushed into a wonky, half assed finale.
With most of the crucial shit happening on tape, the material to work with was, potentially, there.
The tone hinted before release, was to be something very dark, violent, and shocking, all this masturbation about taboo themes, "i'm gonna get kicked out of the industry" and all that bullshit.
And then the game is more tame than other entries int he series, Venom Snake never does anything particularly bad (shooting his men in mother base wasn't even an act of selfishness or anything) he doesn't even kill one of the shittiest guys in the game (Huey).
You go watch the Nuclear trailer, and you expect him to burn villages with white napalm or some shit, and in the end the most controversial shit it has, is a lady's bikini.
Finally, and this is related to tone, the twist itself, i thought, was a very interesting idea handled stupidly.
First of all, it doesn't really have that big an implication, because Venom Boss didn't really get to interact and influence anyone outside of Liquid and, MAYBE Miller (biggest implication would be how much of a dickhead OG Big Boss is, right from the start).
Second of all, and most importantly, they decided to go with this "meta commentary" horseshit ("YOU are the boss!") that takes away any chance at having an actually interesting character, bringing something to the story.
What they could've done is have a person forced into the role of Big Boss, but with a different personality, show off his struggle in reconciling these two aspects of his psyche: One telling him he HAS to desire a world of constant perpetual war (Big Boss' dream and mental inception) and his own personality, maybe dreaming of something else.
Show off this struggle throughout the game and have Ocelot try to drag him on BB's side, while Miller pulls him to the other.
Then show him giving in and sacrificing, when BB finally decides to have him killed as a pawn in his master plan (by guiding Solid Snake to get rid of him).
You could've had this, and instead they went with the "Venom Snake is a silent puppet you inhabit" and he says jack shit for 70 hours of game, and he sits silent, emotionless and without even flinching once, in a 40 minutes car ride with SkullFace, the man who destroyed and put him in a 9 years coma, telling him is master plan.
And this applies in many other cases for this game, the elements of a good, interesting story are there, they're just handled like shit.
sammyCYBORG
Member
No its an abortion of a story. Even the bare story in this is infinitely better. 4 shits on everything the series had built up.
If you think the story in 4 is anything other than an embarrassing mess then I feel sorry for you.
DodgyTaZombie
Member
You mean the people who where cosplaying her before the game came out? And thus knew nothing about her character expect her visual design?
What does that prove ?
Some attractive people like wearing fun, revealing outfits.
Quite's characterisation has nothing to do with that. She's still a character who's "sexy" actions are never once address by the narrative (that shit she does in the ACC) or when it is addressed she has no choice or agency in the matter. Where not talking about Bayonetta or Ada Wong where the characters have actual agency in the matter.
Power fantasies require some actual fucking power.
Granted Iv never played God of war, but isn't it running on revenge fantasy 101?
The fact he murders his family isn't the fantasy, the fact he can murder everyone involved because he's so powerful and muscly is.
N
Noray
Unconfirmed Member
I agree with this
Also I like Quiet and while I think the justification for her outfit is flimsy at best, it doesn't bother me nearly as much as the fucking writhing and moaning she does in the chopper and in her cell. And the rain scene. That shit is embarrassing. The fact that I care about her at all is entirely due to the fantastic facial capture of Stefanie Joosten and the fact that her actual character arc is pretty tragic. Doesn't excuse the camera ogling her at every opportunity.
I loved 4. Cutscene heavy as everyone knows but the game was fun. Liked octocamo, liked returning to shadow moses, loved the bosses, like the metal gear fight.
Was also nice seeing Raiden return as immortal god demon Punished Raiden
sammyCYBORG
Member
Wronggggggggg.
And this well structured argument ends my hate for 4 in this thread.
5 is great.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Also the game lacks the war feeling. Nothing ever happens in Afghanistan. No mujahedeen fighting back the sovjet soldiers.
Some scripted events in the world would have been pretty nice. MGS4 did a might fine job with that feeling of war in the first couple missions.
Some scripted events in the world would have been pretty nice. MGS4 did a might fine job with that feeling of war in the first couple missions.
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