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We got MGS4 more because of Liquid leaving with Ray. That is clearly asking for a sequel and not really the best way to end a story. MGS2 doesn't do a good job at resolving that in the slightest which is fine since Kojima intended for a new team to take the reigns, not necessarily for the story to just up and STOP.

Everything MGS4 does with the Patriots, however, was MGS4's own doing. If anything, MGS4 almost totally disregards MGS2 when it comes to the Patriots as if it didn't happen.

GW was destroyed? "No it wasn't, a salvage operation put it back together."

The Patriots are run by a committee of 12 people? "No they aren't, they were founded by 6 and are now run completely by AIs."

The Patriots died 100 years ago? "No they didn't, that disc we got was a load of crap."

The Patriots claim they are looking out for the human species? "No they aren't, they mutated and glitched out and are now propagating an out-of-control war economy."

Nothing in MGS2 suggested those loose threads had to be tied up in that fashion. That's all new story content, for better or for worse.

 

[Alienous]

Otacon says The Patriots died "about 100 years ago". The last of The Philosophers died 80 years before the events of MGS2. I can buy that originally it was intended that The Philosophers morphed into the AI controlled Patriots, at least in the Fukushima canon, but MGS4 does away with that idea.

In MGS3's credits it says, in the 1970s, "In 1970 the US branch of 'Philosophers' changes its name to the 'Patriots'", so I'm pretty sure even up to MGS3 the Patriots was always just the nameless/faceless group and AI.

Man all of this just makes me appreciate Mgs2 even more. Maybe that was Kojima's plan all along.

I'm the same. MGSV's attempt at approaching what MGS2 did has made me appreciate what MGS2 so much more; it's masterful, especially by comparison.

 

[fastmower]

You guys its an endless cycle.

Mgsv will be your most hated game, like mgs4 before it, untill mgs6 tactical retconning reactions. Then, even code talker casettes and medic boss will seem like nice story development as kojima further writes himself into the corner with this franchise.

Maybe this is what the boss's will was truly about. Unite the world of mgs haters and fans into one - a nation of mgs players (soldiers) where there will always be an mgs game (war) that never quite satisfies them and they keep asking for more (war economy). Meanwhile, kojima (zero) loses all control of his creation (patriots) as he retcons (nanomachines) left and right.

You do realize this is the last kojima Metal Gear game, right?

 

[The Broken Ska Record]

MGS2 is still terrible, gameplay aside.

 

[RandomSeed]

Here is my "only played MGS2 and some of 3 going into this" story impressions.

That Venom seems like a pretty good guy. Kinda feel for him.

Big Boss seems like a really big fucking dillhole.

Who wrote this shit? WHOOOOOOOOOOOO?

*don't CQC me*

 

[WalshyB]

Here is my "only played MGS2 and some of 3 going into this" story impressions.

That Venom seems like a pretty good guy. Kinda feel for him.

Big Boss seems like a really big fucking dillhole.

Who wrote this shit? WHOOOOOOOOOOOO?

*don't CQC me*

JOOOOOHN CENA "cue the music"

 

[Kenzodielocke]

Metal Gear Spoiler V: The Phantom Spoiler |OT2| Such a lust for conclusion, WHOOOOOO?

 

[RandomSeed]

 

[Severance]

As a gamer, I really love MGSV. It has the best stealth action gameplay of any game ever created. The depth is astounding, it took me 70 hours to complete the story and I still have more to do.

As a Metal Gear fan.. I hate it. Its not at all what it was promises to be, the trailers spoiled every cutscene. There were no surprises to be had. I adore MGS3, its my favorite in the series. This game should have been about Big Boss, instead we get Big Medic. Its such an interesting time period in the Metal Gear series. The story of all the characters converge on this era. The story could have been so much more, hell it was promised to be so much more. And it wasn't at all. Such a failed opportunity. I wonder how Kojima will look back on it.

Ah well, I still love MGSV. I guess it is true to its name.. The Phantom Pain. For the what could've been, but never will be.

 

[tryagainlater]

I knew it would come down to a 4 vs V even before this game came out. The Big Boss games ultimately suck at the end of the day.

 

[Death Metalist]

I knew it would come down to a 4 vs V even before this game came out. The Big Boss games ultimately suck at the end of the day.

I think it's because it's hard to do a linear BB game since he's the guy who built an army so your whole way of playing has to change when it comes to BB after 3 that is which is when he went off to build his private army. You can't make a linear game about a guy who's building an army.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

I have a question. The mission where you extract Huey, there are some fuel containers that you can extract when you have the wormhole fulton. Then you gather the intel there and the game saves and you can restart the mission, rinse and repeat.

Can I just go to the ACC after I've enough fuel or do I have to complete the whole mission ?

 

[akidnamededdy]

I think it's because it's hard to do a linear BB game since he's the guy who built an army so your whole way of playing has to change when it comes to BB after 3 that is which is when he went off to build his private army. You can't make a linear game about a guy who's building an army.

But Peace Walker was like super linear

 

[Death Metalist]

But Peace Walker was like super linear

That's because of the limitations but the base idea of that game is still the same in TPP except you have like 1000x times the playground to play with. PW had you also doing lots of micromanagement and made you go through many different environments. All 4 games including GZ had one goal in mind, go from point A to B and fulfill your mission/duty with the exception of 4 had you globetrotting but it's still the same thing of going from point A to B till you trigger a cutscene. Things are much more complicated in PW/TPP that's for sure.

 

[Alienous]

I have a question. The mission where you extract Huey, there are some fuel containers that you can extract when you have the wormhole fulton. Then you gather the intel there and the game saves and you can restart the mission, rinse and repeat.

Can I just go to the ACC after I've enough fuel or do I have to complete the whole mission ?

Apparently you can just go to the ACC.

 

[RK9039]

I need to play all the MGS games again in order to get The Phantom Pain out of my mind. Maybe I'll use hypnosis on myself, just like Ocelot, to forget about it.

Kawanishi-noseguchi, Kinunobebashi, Takiyama... *cough*

 

[tryagainlater]

I think it's because it's hard to do a linear BB game since he's the guy who built an army so your whole way of playing has to change when it comes to BB after 3 that is which is when he went off to build his private army. You can't make a linear game about a guy who's building an army.

You're not wrong. I just don't think we ever needed these stories. Even 3 felt pointless to me even if it is a good story on its own.

 

[Bittercup]

do you get Quiet back after she decides to take a dip in the chlorine? I assume "yes" since I have the butterfly emblem, it's not the event that makes her go away for good.

Yes. She is just injured for a moment. I had her back after one side ops.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I really appreciate the newfound enjoyment I have gotten for 4 from V.
Regardless of if you loved or hated the actual details, they just absolutely went all in on it. You can actually feel the heart put into 4 in every aspect.

Now I just wish I could see the Middle East, South America and Shadow Moses redone with V's open world and gameplay.

 

[Death Metalist]

You're not wrong. I just don't think we ever needed these stories. Even 3 felt pointless to me even if it is a good story on its own.

I,like you, felt that I said goodbye to the series after 4 but it hasn't stopped me from playing the games that released after 4 haha. I just felt content and really satisfied, didn't really need anything more as 3 was more than enough to give an idea of why BB just said fuck y'all at the end and 4 just closed everything with a bow. At the same time I'm kind of glad we got more in the sense that TPP's gameplay is just tons of fun.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Its not at all what it was promises to be, the trailers spoiled every cutscene. There were no surprises to be had.

I love it when people say this, they keep getting upset with trailers, but then they keep watching them.

Trailers (games and movies alike) spoil things, and they always will, especially when they release like 5 of them, simply don't watch them, I don't.

 

[Flipyap]

Metal Gear Spoiler V: The Phantom Spoiler |OT2| Such a lust for conclusion, WHOOOOOO?

Metal Grammar Spoiler V, Chapter 2: You became a demon for such little endings as that?

 

[Alienous]

Someone on Reddit made a great analogy for The Phantom Pain.

"It's like eating something delicious that is more uncooked the farther in you eat".

Metal Gear Spoiler V: The Phantom Spoiler |OT2| Such a lust for conclusion, WHOOOOOO?

How about 'SPOILERS: Metal Gear Solid V Spoiler Thread |SPOILERS| Such a lust for conclusion, TWOOOOOO'

 

[tuxfool]

The open world nature makes it hard to create interesting boss fights compared to a close space with multiple objects to interact with. Quiet Boss battle is basically the end 2.0.

Considering the game boxes you into areas during missions, there is absolutely no reason they could not do small encounter areas.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I love it when people say this, they keep getting upset with trailers, but then they keep watching them.

Trailers (games and movies alike) spoil things, and they always will, especially when they release like 5 of them, simply don't watch them, I don't.

I'd agree with you but in the case of V it was literally every dang scene and then some tweaked to make them seem deeper more interesting yet when you actually see this stuff again there's less depth there making it even bigger of a disappointment.

The motorcycle scene for example was heavily edited but why in the world did a scene from the real ending need to be in a preview, especially that one?

 

[Roufianos]

I'd agree with you but in the case of V it was literally every dang scene and then some tweaked to make them seem deeper more interesting yet when you actually see this stuff again there's less depth there making it even bigger of a disappointment.

The motorcycle scene for example was heavily edited but why in the world did a scene from the real ending need to be in a preview, especially that one?

AHHHH that's so true!

Also with an MGS game, especially one of this scope, you expect there to be so much story that the trailers will show very little of the overall plot.

The plot is such a small part of the game, why was it even the focus of the E3 trailers? Should have just shown gameplay.

 

[tuxfool]

I love it when people say this, they keep getting upset with trailers, but then they keep watching them.

Trailers (games and movies alike) spoil things, and they always will, especially when they release like 5 of them, simply don't watch them, I don't.

I've never seen any trailer campaign that contains every single cutscene from a game. Absolutely nothing of value was held back. The only cutscenes that weren't shown were the pervy Quiet cutscenes.

 

[Anung]

SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V: TPP | OT2| I am Kojima, I am the absence of endings.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

All the trailers I got the sense of seeing stuff from the beginning and mid game. The "Shining lights, even in death" cutscene and the burnt village in africa I thought were the turning points of Big Boss becoming a demon. The trailers were all pretty manipulative.

I expected (maybe my fault) the most grounded MG story - a story about men becoming demon because of hatred and revenge thoughts. No need for the twist.

Venom Snake was Jesus, saved everybody and killed the bad guys.

 

[Xpike]

i have never seen a marketing campaign that up to the last minute promises the missing link between a series' two time periods and then doesn't focus on that at all.

 

[UrbanRats]

I love it when people say this, they keep getting upset with trailers, but then they keep watching them.

Of course, making trailers is an art, and watching them is enjoyable.
They're a pleasure all on their own, when they're good.

Unfortunately, a good trailer stimulates the imagination to such an extent, that the final product can end up not living up to it.
Or sometimes they can be outright misleading, like in this case.

All the trailers I got the sense of seeing stuff from the beginning and mid game. The "Shining lights, even in death" cutscene and the burnt village in africa I thought were the turning points of Big Boss becoming a demon. The trailers were all pretty manipulative.

I expected (maybe my fault) the most grounded MG story - a story about men becoming demon because of hatred and revenge thoughts. No need for the twist.

Venom Snake was Jesus, saved everybody and killed the bad guys.

I agree, but again, that has little to do with the twist itself.
The twist could've been good.

 

[Alienous]

All the trailers I got the sense of seeing stuff from the beginning and mid game. The "Shining lights, even in death" cutscene and the burnt village in africa I thought were the turning points of Big Boss becoming a demon. The trailers were all pretty manipulative.

I expected (maybe my fault) the most grounded MG story - a story about men becoming demon because of hatred and revenge thoughts. No need for the twist.

Venom Snake was Jesus, saved everybody and killed the bad guys.

lol.

Dammit, Kojima.

 

[Sumio Mondo]

SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V: TPP | OT2| I am Kojima, I am the absence of endings.

SPOILER: Spoiler Metal Gear Solid V: TPP | OT2| A Franchise Where The Fans Have Been Robbed

 

[Xpike]

maybe konami shipped the beta version of the game and they realized their mistake too late and are too embarrased to say anything about it

 

[Count of Monte Sawed-Off]

lol.

Dammit, Kojima.

Should have just been something that said, "Vocal cord parasite." - Code Talker

 

[Kenzodielocke]

https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1443449&page=10

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

I'd agree with you but in the case of V it was literally every dang scene and then some tweaked to make them seem deeper more interesting yet when you actually see this stuff again there's less depth there making it even bigger of a disappointment.

The motorcycle scene for example was heavily edited but why in the world did a scene from the real ending need to be in a preview, especially that one?

Movies do this shit literally all the time, I watch about a 100 movies a year and when I go back to watch the trailers, they pretty much give every important story beat (including endings) away in their bullshit 3 minutes.

This made me stop watching trailers for movies that I'm anticipating years ago, heck I nearly made it to terminator genisys without getting spoiled about the twist, then I see it clear as day on a random ass poster right before I enter the theater...

I actually really like it when trailers subvert expectations, like the trailer for Case 39. Its trailer was so masterfully deceptive, that they pieced together several scenes to create an entirely different plot.
Sadly I've only seen this happen once.

Trailers can go to hell.

 

[CheesecakeRecipe]

Movies do this shit literally all the time, I watch about a 100 movies a year and when I go back to watch the trailers, they pretty much give every important story beat (including) away in their bullshit 3 minutes.

This made me stop watching trailers for movies that I'm anticipating years ago, heck I nearly made it to terminator genisys without getting spoiled about the twist, then I see it clear as day on a random ass poster right before I enter the theater...

I actually really like it when trailers subvert expectations, like the trailer for Case 39. Its trailer was so masterfully deceptive, that they pieced together several scenes to create an entirely different plot.
Sadly I've only seen this happen once.

Trailers can go to hell.

In a way, that's sort of what MGSV did. It crafted a narrative to fill our heads with hope for a dark story about the downward spiral of Big Boss, only to find out it plays out nothing like that even before the twist is revealed that we weren't even playing as the real BB to begin with.

I've gone back through and rewatched every trailer to piece together where each clip came from. There's a few scenes that were entirely absent from the final game, including shots of child soldiers being trained, snake surrounded by the burning ashes of a village, and Ocelot approaching someone on the battlefield with his usual gun flourishes. But for the most part, it used almost every major cutscene in the game to tell us a story that never ended up happening, very cleverly selected and placed together along with voice overs from tapes and Skull Face's final speech.

Best example of this is the Elegia trailer cut by Kojima himself. That one alone is one big chunk of misdirection. And yet, there's a part of me that greatly desires that it would have played out more like that.

 

[Cereal Enthusiast]

(Re)watching the trailers, it's crazy how much spoilery they are.

 

[Alienous]

"This is not about justice."

"This is about revenge."

The Gamescom 2015 trailer says.

Why could they just tell a revenge story? Kojima knew it's what we wanted.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

In my opinion a couple of reasons:

The open world nature makes it hard to create interesting boss fights compared to a close space with multiple objects to interact with. Quiet Boss battle is basically the end 2.0

Finally it's hard to out do yourself with the expectations of previous boss battles. The only interesting twist you can do is with the Metal Gear. The infiltration is basically at the root of everything and it's what basically drives TPP, with this game going open world I expected this.

I'd say the loss in intimate fights isn't really the fault of open world.
Eli fight for example is so half-assed nothing really saves it.
Quiet on the other hand greatly uses the open world to create the best "Sniper Fight", yeah The End had a much better theming and Wolf a better character but honestly those aspects could have easily been done here in open world.

Metal Gear fight is the best of he series for 2 real reasons.
1. Open world allows you to fight the Metal Gear in multiple ways.
2. Open world allows the Metal Gear to go all out as they were designed to, really makes Rex look sad as its stuck in a hager against a single guy. Im picturing MGS4 Rex against Solid out in that barren desert area and its really making me sad.

Even after all that why not just create rooms for 1 off boss fights?
Mantis was a small 1 off room,
Liquid had a hand to hand on top of Rex.
and so on, wouldn't have been any trouble to design stuff like that for bosses.

Heck PW was small and didn't even attempt human bosses.

Kinda wondering why they didn't try many linear sections that would be improved by an open world design.
Liquid jeep fight.
Boss fight in helicopter vs a Harrier or something(Quiet scene trolled me).
Snake Eva motorcycle scene.
Drebin's Stryker scene.
Snake and Mama's motorcycle scene.

 

[Kenzodielocke]

"This is not about justice."

"This is about revenge."

The Gamescom 2015 trailer says.

Why could they just tell a revenge story? Kojima knew it's what we wanted.

I feel you bro, the only thing I wanted from this game. No just cause, only revenge.

 

[Liquid_015]

Just finished chapter 1 and i'm confused:

- how did Kaz lose his sight? Especially in the cutscene where he talks to the staff of mother base?

It's weird how Eli played everyone like a fiddle:
- mentally piloting the metal gear thru Psycho Mantis
- the child soldiers and the chorine scene (what was eli doing?)

 

[AwShucks]

I forgot about the Eli fight. I actually enjoyed the second one on the base quite a bit.

 

[Chariot]

(Re)watching the trailers, it's crazy how much spoilery they are.

Yeah, they are bascially american style movie trailers that tell the watcher everything beforehand. But I am also sad how good they are. They really pumped me up, and that made it a bit harder to follow the story we already knew,

"Oh, who could be behind everything?"
"Who is that man in the domino mask?"

Shut up, you guys, the trailers and GZ told me years ago! Go on with the story!

 

[Hasney]

I can't wait until MGS6 or some DLC is announced. There's going to be some mad theories around Kojima still working on it and I can't wait to read them.

 

[tryagainlater]

i have never seen a marketing campaign that up to the last minute promises the missing link between a series' two time periods and then doesn't focus on that at all.

Portable Ops promised this, Peace Walker promised us this, I knew I was fooling myself thinking that this game wouldn't be just another proto-Outer Heaven story.

 

[Razgriz-Specter]

I forgot about the Eli fight. I actually enjoyed the second one on the base quite a bit.

I forgot about the second,
Yeah I liked #2 but hated #1.

 

[fastmower]

I can't wait until MGS6 or some DLC is announced. There's going to be some mad theories around Kojima still working on it and I can't wait to read them.

Oh you....

Don't hold your breath. The Metal Gear story does not end with a bang but a whimper.

 

[shwimpy]

What was the title of Chapter 1? Just beat Mission 31 and it said the title of Chapter 2 is RACE.