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[Xpliskin]

Seeing as it's been a while we've heard anything Soul Calibur related, I'm wondering when it went downhill .


I know Soul Blade, SC 1 and 2 were the high points of the series, with SC 2 having the best gameplay overal.

Then came SC 3, with the console release having too many glitches, which were fixed in an arcade update that unfortunately never came to the PS2. This impacted the competitive scene.

SC 4 had amazing graphics, but the gameplay didn't reach the heights of SC 2.
The problems were iirc:
-The armor system
-8Way running was too punishing:
In SC 2, moves which would cause special stun didn't cause that stun to opponents when 8way running.
They added that in SC3 and 4.
This meant that players would move less and you were most of the time in front of your enemy mashing.

SC 5 : well viola, patroklos and phyrra ... this game has balance issues.

The feinting is gone, there is less mindgames and it's more about knowing which moves beats which moves (which it's always the case in fighting games). But here, the game turns into a mashfest with cheap characters and using the same moves over and over again.

Releasing updates apparently cost too much, and they already had budget issues for SCV.
The director for SCV left Namco shortly after (he was a SC 1 champion that joined the company to work on the SC games)


Share your insights GAF, preferably from a gameplay standpoint.

 

[jacobeid]

When it comes to meta game it just can't compare to SF or Mahvel.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Gutting the story and roster in V likely didn't help its reception. The newcomers were all really good aside from THE LEAD CHARACTER, seriously, who liked this smug bastard?

But they took out too many fan favorites. It's a shame because, gameplay wise, SCV is the absolute pinnacle of the series.

 

[Nick]

I just felt like it was too much, too soon. The pinnacle of the series will always be Soul Calibur 2. It doesn't help that Soul Calibur 3 wasn't very good at all.

 

[Whompa02]

Man...Soul Calibur 2 was so friggen amazing...as much as I enjoyed 3 and 4, they were missing that spark that 2 had.

Hope it comes back someday.

5 was a cool concept but I just had zero feelings for it...plus the gameplay just wasn't snappy.

 

[nicanica]

I've never understood the love for it personally.

Blocking an attack shouldn't make me stagger damnit!

 

[Steel]

Lack of single player content in IV and then even less in V hurts things. Beyond that, I still like soul cal more than any other fighter.

The biggest problem with it is that there hasn't been any new entries.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

No initial arcade release for SC3 is what killed it. The game came out & was a broken buggy mess & killed the competitive scene off within months.

Then they released the arcade version that fixed all thw bugs later but ONLY in arcades. The arcade version suffered because of the lack of new content & the competitive scene couldn't survive on the few arcade cabs that were available.

After that they kept doing straight to consol & kept getting unbalanced bad games because they lacked the QA testing the arcades provided. It's as simple as that.

 

[KTO]

SCV was the OG of story mode letdowns almost 3 years before Destiny.
Personally because of that, I always thought there wasn't much to the game in general.

 

[Creaking]

The newcomers were all really good aside from THE LEAD CHARACTER, seriously, who liked this smug bastard?

I liked him more than his sister or, say, a nothing character like Xiba. Between having a pretty good moveset and laughing at what an asshole he is, I think he's pretty endearing.

I do think the game got maybe a little too combo-heavy with V.

 

[Joyful]

no Talim in V

I mean cmon

 

[vypek]

no Talim in V

I mean cmon

Lol I was about to say "No Talim made it go downhill"

In SC5 I kind of disliked the cast and story and didnt put as much time into it as I thought I would.

 

[Skilletor]

SoulCalibur 3

PS2 Exclusive
Horrible, gamebreaking bugs
Only fixed with an "AE" edition that few people got to play

Then the community had to hold that L for a long time before we got SC4, which, imo, is the worst SC, with lots of things hated by the community (lol Hilde).

Two "bad" entries in a row hurt the community a lot.

But, I don't know if that's what you're asking, because if you're asking how did it go downhill in quality, the answer is money. SC5 didn't have much of it, and almost no support after its release, but despite that, imo is the best playing in the series.

SC 5 : well viola, patroklos and phyrra ... this game has balance issues.

The feinting is gone, there is less mindgames and it's more about knowing which moves beats which moves (which it's always the case in fighting games). But here, the game turns into a mashfest with cheap characters and using the same moves over and over again.

Releasing updates apparently cost too much, and they already had budget issues for SCV.

None of this is true (except balance issues). There are just as many mindgames, even more so with meter involved. I don't see how you can say it's "more about knowing which moves beat which moves" but believe that something like SC2 was so good when the answer to every problem in that game is almost always 22_88B with X. Feinting is still there. And whenever anybody calls something a "mashfest" in any fighter, I question how much they actually know about the game.

 

[HK-47]

It was 3 that fucked the series. PS2 exclusive and glitchy as shit. What a terrible move.

 

[Creaking]

SoulCalibur 3

PS2 Exclusive
Horrible, gamebreaking bugs
Only fixed with an "AE" edition that few people got to play.

Funny, 'cause I see a lot more love for SoulCalibur III these days than I ever have before. Mostly in the wake of the relatively content-sparse IV and especially V.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a remastered version that implements the fixes of the arcade edition, combined with the content of the original home release, with additions like Online play. Like SCII HD Online, but better. If there's still a wide gap between the hopeful next mainline release in the series, investing in a smaller project like that seems like it'd be a good move.

 

[Inuhanyou]

Soul Calibur 4 was shit. Amazing graphics but the combat was destroyed and they spent too much effort on securing Star Wars and guest stars, taking out mission mode, and a lot of the challenges and extra modes in SC3.

Although personally speaking, everything went down hill after SC1which i think was the pinnacle, although 2 and 3 were still good. SC2 was just running in place in regards to copying the first one, and the third one i heard had some glitches although i never encountered any.

And the fifth one basically did the worst thing you can do for a timeskip

 

[SolarPowered]

PS2 exclusivity killed Soulcalibur for my crowd. SC2 brought Soulcalibur to everyone. I'll never understand who thought that was a good idea.

 

[Skilletor]

Funny, 'cause I see a lot more love for SoulCalibur III these days than I ever have before. Mostly in the wake of the relatively content-sparse IV and especially V.

Personally, I wouldn't mind a remastered version that implements the fixes of the arcade edition, combined with the content of the original home release, with additions like Online play. Like SCII HD Online, but better.

I wouldn't know about that. If you like single player, then maybe.

If you're even a slightly competent SC player, then vs. mode is unplayable except for luls.

It also had tons of slowdown in several stages.

SC3AE should have been the game to get the HD treatment, not SC2.

 

[Creaking]

I wouldn't know about that. If you like single player, then maybe.

If you're even a slightly competent SC player, then vs. mode is unplayable except for luls.

It also had tons of slowdown in several stages.

SC3AE should have been the game to get the HD treatment, not SC2.

I'm guessing folks are picturing the best parts of both versions (SCIII Vanilla and Arcade Edition) when it comes to the warm and fuzzy thoughts. Most folks haven't played the Arcade Edition, but in the age of balance patches and HD and whatnot, it's not difficult to imagine a complete, balanced version of the game that runs well.

 

[Skilletor]

, and the third one i heard had some glitches although i never encountered any.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yDNVOzKNp4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHhy_UXJaks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wodHCOVobos
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCyi-88wUYY

Variable cancel allowed you to cancel the animation of moves, some throw animations the recovery on guard impacts...it was stupid.

I'm guessing folks are picturing the best parts of both versions (SCIII Vanilla and Arcade Edition) when it comes to the warm and fuzzy thoughts. Most folks haven't played the Arcade Edition, but in the age of balance patches and HD and whatnot, it's not difficult to imagine a complete, balanced version of the game that runs well.

Definitely. SC3 released in this day and age wouldn't have been as much of a problem. I LOVE SC3AE (and SC3, really).

 

[Murder. She Wrote]

My roommate got SC III last month and we've put in so many hours into it already it's scary. Where the heck is Soul Caliber VI?

 

[Xpliskin]

SoulCalibur 3

PS2 Exclusive
Horrible, gamebreaking bugs
Only fixed with an "AE" edition that few people got to play

Then the community had to hold that L for a long time before we got SC4, which, imo, is the worst SC, with lots of things hated by the community (lol Hilde).

Two "bad" entries in a row hurt the community a lot.

But, I don't know if that's what you're asking, because if you're asking how did it go downhill in quality, the answer is money. SC5 didn't have much of it, and almost no support after its release, but despite that, imo is the best playing in the series.



None of this is true (except balance issues). There are just as many mindgames, even more so with meter involved. I don't see how you can say it's "more about knowing which moves beat which moves" but believe that something like SC2 was so good when the answer to every problem in that game is almost always 22_88B with X. Feinting is still there. And whenever anybody calls something a "mashfest" in any fighter, I question how much they actually know about the game.

Those are cool insights.

To add and respond to that:

The available feints are nowhere near the level of SC2.
Less moves can be canceled (and normal canceling is useless since you're mostly next to your opponent).
For example voldo's backturned stance is very dangerous and completely useless.
Natsu's movelist is very different from Taki, her feints (B+K) can easily be predicted

With "mashfest" what I mean is: SC is a 3 button (+ guard) game, moving in SC3+ is dangerous because of the added stun (SS counter), so you're mostly near your opponent mashing A B K combinations (less navigating, less feinting, ...).
It's a mashfest compared to SF's 6 button layout, TK's 4 buttons and marvel's chain combo system

 

[Tripon]

Potsplitting?

 

[Creaking]

My roommate got SC III last month and we've put in so many hours into it already it's scary. Where the heck is Soul Caliber VI?

Hopefully coming soon. The SoulCalibur official facebook account was doing a lot of teasing last year, and now they've officially ended Lost Swords, so if anything is happening in the realm of SoulCalibur, it's something new.

The latest thing they've posted (November 30th) is:

Soul Calibur Lost Swords has closed its service at 30th November. Project Soul thank all the players who enjoyed this game. Please look forward for the next announcement!

 

[Spman2099]

I liked the weight of the Soul Edge, personally. I also liked the weapon durability system. Soul Calibur was a really satisfying game, I could have settled for that speed (though I wish they hadn't abandoned weapon durability). However, it just got quicker, flashier, and dumber from there.

 

[Skilletor]

Those are cool insights.

To add and respond to that:

The available feints are nowhere near the level of SC2.
Less moves can be canceled (and normal canceling is useless since you're mostly next to your opponent).
For example voldo's backturned stance is very dangerous and completely useless.
Natsu's movelist is very different from Taki, her feints (B+K) can easily be predicted

With "mashfest" what I mean is: SC is a 3 button (+ guard) game, moving in SC3+ is dangerous because of the added stun (SS counter), so you're mostly near your opponent mashing A B K combinations (less navigating, less feinting, ...).
It's a mashfest compared to SF's 6 button layout, TK's 4 buttons and marvel's chain combo system

Cancelling isn't useless at all. It's excellent to bait out GIs and other attacks, same as it has always been.

I know nothing about Voldo, so I won't comment.
Natsu's movelist IS very different from Taki's, but she's a different character.

The rest...again, I'll just say that saying something is a mashfest is usually indicative of a player's skill level and not the game. How many buttons a game has has nothing to do with how "mash friendly" it might be.

Potsplitting?

lol

 

[TheSpoiler]

Even with the balance issues, it's nowhere near as bad as any SC game in the series. It's by far and a mile the most balanced.

It had a pretty good run as well. Tons of tournaments hosted this game and the pots were still good. I think TTT2 stole a lot of the thunder though, even if SCV did more sales wise (IIRC).

 

[Neff]

For me they changed too much about the characters I liked, nerfed/buffed too hard, and simplified parry to the point where it wasn't as much fun.

Spoiler

All of which happened in SCII. SCV is a good attempt at revitalising the series, but SC1 will always be king imo.

 

[Stallion Dan]

Lack of content in newer games but shitloads of DLC.

 

[The Right Deal]

The darkest times for the series were easily during IV, broken ass balance and a boring game to watch, I thought V was a great return to form, it felt crisp and seamless and I thought Viola and ZWEI were the best new characters ever added to the series from a game play perspective.

It's a shame about the lack of single player content, that hurt it pretty bad. I hope VI gets proper time to be developed, makes minimal changes to V's game play and delivers good single player content.

 

[eyeball_kid]

PS2 exclusivity killed Soulcalibur for my crowd. SC2 brought Soulcalibur to everyone. I'll never understand who thought that was a good idea.

What? SoulCalibur wasn't a PS2 exclusive; it came out on the Dreamcast first. And it looked glorious there.

I interviewed with..I believe producer Hiroaki Yotoriyama when the DC version of SoulCalibur came out. I asked him if he thought he could top SC based on the amount of content and quality they put into it, and he laughed and said, "Well, maybe not!"

In a way, I'm not sure they ever topped SC in terms of impact, though SC2 was a solid game. My feeling is Namco tried to milk the franchise too much, releasing sequels too quickly and focusing on famous guest characters like Yoda and Link instead of just making the best game they could and trying to push weapons-based combat forward. I'd love to see Namco reboot the series using Unreal Engine, focusing on the fundamentals and the characters we all loved.

 

[Skilletor]

The darkest times for the series were easily during IV, broken ass balance and a boring game to watch, I thought V was a great return to form, it felt crisp and seamless and I thought Viola and ZWEI were the best new characters ever added to the series from a game play perspective.

It's a shame about the lack of single player content, that hurt it pretty bad. I hope VI gets proper time to be developed, makes minimal changes to V's game play and delivers good single player content.

I love both of them, but my favorite new character is still Zasalamel. That he wasn't in 5 is a travesty. That dude was built for Brave Edge combos.

What? SoulCalibur wasn't a PS2 exclusive; it came out on the Dreamcast first. And it looked glorious there.

I interviewed with..I believe producer Hiroaki Yotoriyama when the DC version of SoulCalibur came out. I asked him if he thought he could top SC based on the amount of content and quality they put into it, and he laughed and said, "Well, maybe not!"

In a way, I'm not sure they ever topped SC in terms of impact, though SC2 was a solid game. My feeling is Namco tried to milk the franchise too much, releasing sequels too quickly and focusing on famous guest characters like Yoda and Link instead of just making the best game they could and trying to push weapons-based combat forward. I'd love to see Namco reboot the series using Unreal Engine, focusing on the fundamentals and the characters we all loved.

SC3 was PS2 exclusive is what the poster meant, I assume.

 

[SephLuis]

I played tons of SC2 and SC4. Didn't care much about SC 5.

System-wise, SC was already very good and needed refinements. I didn't care much about the armor system they created on SC4, but it was a time where every fighter needed a comeback mechanic.

SC5 was a refinement of the systems, but the characters were a problem. Some of the were excellent and created new styles of gameplay, others were like butchering an old character and getting the pieces to look like something new (I am a Kilik player btw, which made me pissed).

I hope they make a SC6 and balance old characters with new ones, get rid of specials/ armor system and a good online code. That last one killed SC4 for me.

 

["God's Beard!"]

3 was fucked and console exclusive, 4 was fucked, and 5 didn't have a chance to unfuck everything because they had like 6 months to make the game and it launched half finished.

Plus, the SC community fucked themselves over in the past.

I did enjoy the launch party in San Fran for V though.

 

[Acerac]

PS2 exclusivity killed Soulcalibur for my crowd. SC2 brought Soulcalibur to everyone. I'll never understand who thought that was a good idea.

Happened to my group too.

Real shame that.

 

[Creaking]

What? SoulCalibur wasn't a PS2 exclusive; it came out on the Dreamcast first. And it looked glorious there.

I interviewed with..I believe producer Hiroaki Yotoriyama when the DC version of SoulCalibur came out. I asked him if he thought he could top SC based on the amount of content and quality they put into it, and he laughed and said, "Well, maybe not!"

In a way, I'm not sure they ever topped SC in terms of impact, though SC2 was a solid game. My feeling is Namco tried to milk the franchise too much, releasing sequels too quickly and focusing on famous guest characters like Yoda and Link instead of just making the best game they could and trying to push weapons-based combat forward. I'd love to see Namco reboot the series using Unreal Engine, focusing on the fundamentals and the characters we all loved.

The Soul Series's platform juggling has always been a strange thing. Soul Edge, the first game, was exclusive to PS1. The sequel was exclusive to Dreamcast (later ported to 360 and mobile). Then the sequel to that was on all home consoles except for Dreamcast. Then the sequel to that was PS2 exclusive. Then the following two were PS3/360, but you've got weird side games like the Wii exclusive Legends, the PSP exclusive Broken Destiny, and then PS3's now defunct Lost Swords.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

I think the quality of the games is inversely proportional to the average bust size

 

[Doctoglethorpe]

Sc3 was the best, idc about balance issues. It had the best and biggest cast, the best and most stages, it introduced character generation, and used it in the best single player mode a fighting game has ever had.

All I want anymore from this franchise is SC3 HD.

 

[ZeroTheShadow]

I would like to point out that no one should listen to anything Skillator has to say on Soul Calibur or any fighting game. Guy is 110% scrub. He's only going to feed you a bunch of half-baked BS. Please don't take him seriously.

 

[Garlador]

Lol I was about to say "No Talim made it go downhill"

In SC5 I kind of disliked the cast and story and didnt put as much time into it as I thought I would.

This, for me.

As competitive as the SC5 was, a HUGE portion of gamers don't play competitively. Many play offline, in solo and single-player modes, story modes, adventures modes, challenge modes.

SCV was BAREBONES in that regard AND it was missing iconic characters that had been with the series from the very start (e.g. my waifu Taki).

Even Soul Blade on PS1 had more content to offer than SCV did. For many people (myself included), that was a gigantic loss for a series that was, at one point, the most content-stuffed fighter on the market.

 

[Sub Zero]

SCV could have made the series relevant again if it didn't have that travesty of a roster and pitiful SP content. The gameplay was pretty good and the game had a competitive scene going on for a few years

SC3 was super glitchy and broken (I was unfortunate enough to encounter the infamous memory card corrupting glitch) and SCIV was too gimmicky and unbalanced to be taken seriously by competitive players.

I still love SC3 the most though, it offered a ridiculous amount of SP content and the RTS mode was a whole new game by itself. I always viewed SC as a casual fighting game anyway, so all the balance problems that III had wasn't really an issue for me

 

[Skilletor]

I would like to point out that no one should listen to anything Skillator has to say on Soul Calibur or any fighting game. Guy is 110% scrub. He's only going to feed you a bunch of half-baked BS. Please don't take him seriously.

LOL.

No, really I legit laughed out loud at this.

 

[Nephtes]

I blame Darth Vader and Yoda.
Didn't belong.
Shouldn't have been there.
Ruined Soul Calibur's vibe.

Similar arguments can be made for Spawn, Link (no) and Heihachi.

 

[The Right Deal]

From a non-competitive angle, three may be my favorite. it tried weird things like the strategy mode, had a robust character creator for the time introduced Tira, Zas and Setsuka, and brought back the classic OST which included great new tracks. It was a great game to mess around in with friends. I think my love for the stupidity of it made the slow plodding mess of four an even bigger disappointment.

 

[TheSpoiler]

I would like to point out that no one should listen to anything Skillator has to say on Soul Calibur or any fighting game. Guy is 110% scrub. He's only going to feed you a bunch of half-baked BS. Please don't take him seriously.

Ohhhh shit.

 

[oneida]

When it comes to meta game it just can't compare to SF or Mahvel.

pfffft ahahahhaha

 

[Producer]

I would like to point out that no one should listen to anything Skillator has to say on Soul Calibur or any fighting game. Guy is 110% scrub. He's only going to feed you a bunch of half-baked BS. Please don't take him seriously.

Lol damn. Curious, i see alot of fgw gaf dismiss your posts. Why is that?

 

[Rising_Hei]

SC V was heavily rushed. The online play was awesome and the gameplay improved, but everything else was lacking and there was no deep in any single player mode at all, something that SC always had

 

[Razzorn34]

SCV could have brought it back. It's easy to see it was rushed as hell though, on top of making some terrible design decisions.

Namco cut too many fan favorite characters. This is probably the biggest gripe most people have. Then, the new generation they had to replace many favorite characters had crappy designs.

The game was terribly slim on content compared to previous games. The story mode was tiny. No Edge Master type mode. Nothing. It's as barebones as it gets.

The combat improvement is debatable.... Namco decided to streamline everyones move sets for casuals. So, instead of gaining new moves, people lost whole parts of their moveset. Some characters took that much harder than others(Raphael). Also, Guard Impacts requiring meter should have never been approved. Because of these things, the new combat system has mixed reviews.

 

[Gh0stlyMostly]

Must not be very many people in here that were actually GOOD at SoCal competitively.

Otherwise 4 wouldn't be hated because it had online and a more complex character moveset.

if you're good, you dont hate the SC that let you play other people around the world.

all of these complaints seem more so about single player casual stuff.

5 was completely dumbed down. That was a huge issue, alot of the competitive community hated it. Ivy played like she was for 5 yr olds on SoCal 5 along with many others. If you hadn't noticed this....you probably weren't that good lol jusss sayin'

That's why i didn't buy V and I was a pretty religious player competitively. Same with my friends who played competitively.

It was like melee to brawl. People that were good at melee hated brawl.