Batman v Superman - New Clip
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Well, tbf: if it does end up decent (not actually good), those who expect nothing but a hot mess should be pleasantly surprised, right? I mean, kinda hard for it to disappoint those who where expecting nothing but shit while it's at least decent. Unless some people really want to hold on to the idea that it will be the most awful thing ever or something like that, but that is a very, very small group.
BruceLeeRoy
Banned
Hmm that was kind of.....goood I think
I think you're right that it would be a pleasant surprise but that doesn't mean it couldn't still be seen as disappointing. It might be better than expected but that could still be worse than 'what could have been'.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
I'm not even that much of a DC-diehard. I just really love the characters and grew up with them. Loved the Nolan trilogy and MoS, but equally just hated GL, Catwoman, Superman Returns.
On that last part, it's funny how they took 3 years to make this movie and people are still calling them out for rushing things....how the hell is that rushing, really? They are just doing it in another way and that's fine.
The rushing, at least I think, comes from trying to do in 2 movies what Marvel did with 4. But honestly I prefer this approach. Just get it done. Why waste the time?
sankt-Antonio
Banned
I really do think that Supes delivery of these lines fit perfectly well for a guy who just recently got to show the world who he his and was always raised the be calm and friendly. It fits his persona to be a bad "bad cop". If it was Batflek doing his lines like that the movie would have a serious problem.
So good cast with babyface Henry.
So good cast with babyface Henry.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Owh yeah sure, no doubt. I think the majority of the people are really excited (certainly the general audience) and expect a good/great movie. So it being just decent would be disappointing for those expecting more. Was just talking about the group that wasn't expecting anything good from it. Being decent should satisfy them really.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
I want to believe, I really do, specially when I love Affleck as a director, but he isn't directing this one, Snyder did and from all his movies I can't call him a good director no matter how much I tried. I see him more of been capable of ruining this movie than letting more talented people do a better job at it than him ever will.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
I'm not a huge fan of "the heroes fight each other before realizing they're on the same side!" thing, but if its gonna happen, let it happen early in the movie like it does in Avengers or Max vs Furiosa. Like it let just be a thing that happens because genre conventions, and not like...THE thing. Not the title of the movie. That goes for Civil War as well, although at least that has the benefit of coming after several movies that I generally enjoyed, with characters that I know and enjoy, and being based on political/ideology differences. This shit just looks like "grrr I don't like you Superman" "Hrrrm I don't like you either", and its so over the top with that Zimmer BRRM randomly dropping in after Cavil's wooden line delivery, and the voice modulator sounding like a 13-year old kid's idea of what Batman sounds like. Its just so, so goofy to me.
But of course I'll see it. It looks like a giant spectacle. Gotta have an opinion on the film we'll be arguing about all year vs Civil War!
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Well, Affleck booted Goyer and hired Terrio (and they liked him so much he gets to do JL1&2). And they've all been particularly positive about the script. So, hope that does something for you. And pretty sure Affleck had some creative input one way or the other.
I think you only need to watch the first trailer to see where Batman is coming from in the conflict.
If I was in Batman's shoes and gone through all that shit he has... I would be god damn skeptical of Superman too. This footage actually makes it seem like Superman is one who is calling out Batman where as Batman was just crime fighting and doing his usual stuff. I mean I would be kinda pissed if some alien trashed my car and told me to stop doing what I do best.
Honestly whenever there's a conflict among super heroes it's goofy as fuck. Mostly because instead of a conflict where they settle things with a dialogue they do it by throwing hands against each other. It's just an excuse for fight scenes. It's also become a lazy out for not having compelling, relatable villains.
Many posters seem confident in the Terrio/Affleck combo saving this production.
I'm not a comic book person by any measure, but I do have more of a history with Batman and Superman than any of the Marvel stuff. So yeah, I want their first appearance together to be good, despite mounting evidence to the contrary. Can't say I care for Zach Snyder's work, but throw enough talent at a movie and some of it is bound to show up on screen.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
It does but the name of Snyder also bring this down to me a lot. Also I don't have a lot of blind faith on the script. First because it is most likely compromised to introduce WW and Doomsday. Personally I would have loved the movie to be just about Batman vs Superman and not having to jam WW into it and then a threat big enough to face the three of them at the same time, even though in a direct confrontation only WW and SM get to be useful.
I think DC has more to work with than Marvel when it comes to villains and reasons for their heroes to fight each other and so far what we have seen just remind me of Spiderman 3 with a mess of plotlines that don't seem to connect all that well. Also I think there were huge miscast in the movie that can only be attributed to some suits wanting certain actors for certain roles despite everything.
I am going with little expectations, I hope to be wrong but I don't see stuff that could save it outside of Ben/Terrio duo and we don't even know how much freedom they had with this movie.
This is where I am at
All the talking and posturing... is fine for a discussion board, but the movie is just over 2 months away
it has to stand on its own one way or another. There will be some disposed to hate it, just as some will love it. I'm just curious how the people in-between those extreme react
The political differences are like the same thing in both movies what are you talking about? Both are about leaving superheroes uncontrolled vs freedom
The only difference is that Civil War has Bucky
BadAss2961
Member
Let's not take away Snyder's credit when this thing blows up into a huge success.
They all bring something to the table. Affleck's experience and judgement, Terrio's writing, Snyder's eye for action and visuals along with his excellent cinematographer.
If there's a marketing risk, it's that... to build the legitimacy of Batman's position and of the fight, they have to emphasize Superman's uncharacteristic behavior which is causing people to think he's like this all the time.
However, I'm not sure how to get around that short of seeing the movie or giving away too much (which is arguable from the title or "She with you?" reveal). We still don't ultimately know the explicit or specific reasons for the fight. Even this clip just serves as fodder to explain Bats stewing in the cave and using the signal to goad Supes... that obviously isn't the entire basis for the conflict. We don't even know why Supes is only now deciding to descend on Bats (he's had at least months or years to step in)... so there's some inciting details which are central to the conflict and motivations, which are- intentionally- a mystery to us. We're not supposed to know yet.
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Lord Virgin
Unconfirmed Member
Where the Zimmer love at
BadAss2961
Member
Of course Zim and Junkie too.
Credit where credit's due, always. If Snyder directs this film well, props to the guy. It'll probably be a huge success regardless, though.
I am curious as to how much weight Affleck's judgement has here? Massive star that he surely is, I can't imagine him having too much influence.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
The difference is in the marketing though. BvS ads and trailers do a poor job emphasizing the politics of it. We've gotten a couple moments of Senate hearing and stuff but Civil War has shown us the actual Sokovia Accords that are the basis for the entire conflict, and show that it's kind of a reluctant battle going on. BvS promos mostly play up the grudge match factor - which is mostly a plot point with how Luthor is very publically pitting them against one another to tarnish both their images.
You're totally right, but I feel like the presentation for both movies differs. I feel like Cap doesn't want to fight Tony, he's just standing up for his beliefs and wants to help his friend. On the other end, until BvS shows me more I feel like Bats and Supes just have it out for eachother and aren't being reasonable (which I know isn't the whole picture in the actual film)
dragonyeuw
Member
I haven't said I'm unwilling or unable to digest this version of Superman. I'm just saying that in my experience with the character, 'acting' like he's above us isn't how he was portrayed. So it has nothing to do with not being able to let go of a preconceived notion. To me it's just another interpretation of Superman, after 80 years we all have to accept multiple takes and some will be received better than others.
Led_Zeppelin
Member
Depends how do you define success? Commercial success? I mean this movie can't commercially fail. There is no way. Now critical reception may be completely different, and I mean critical reception into how critics and not fans receive the movie. I doubt this will be on the levels TDK or TDKR when it comes to critical reception, I doubt also it would be as bad as say GL, but if the measure stick is MoS then you don't have your hopes really high or comparing the film to a critically acclaimed movie. Ultimately I doubt Snyder will come out of this one with a new accolades or detractors, I think Snyder is just like Michele Bay and people just know what to expect of him and don't want anything more from him because they know he can't deliver at all.
I can't think of many cases where one of the actors is not just a well proven director time and time again but also someone that is SO much better than the director he is working with on the same set.
The implication being that he is, in effect, ghost-directing here?
If you mean Affleck instead of Snyder in the director's seat, then I agree wholeheartedly.
It might not be a huge commercial success, but you're right about it not being able to fail. Batman and Superman in the same movie guarantees a profit. That new clip that aired last night was pretty shitty IMO.
I still don't like Afleck as Batman. When I see Afleck I automatically think about his gigantic flops, Daredevil and Gigli. He hasn't done enough as an actor to clean those turds off my palate yet.
BadAss2961
Member
He wouldn't have taken this on if he thought it could fail. He, like others, saw the real weak link - Goyer. Brought in his writer.
I think it's safe to assume Snyder and Affleck collaborated some during production. I mean, you don't bring in a actor/writer/director like that and not give him influence. He's there for his credibility, input, and as of right now to direct the next set of Batman films himself coming off Snyder's vision.
Killing_Joke
Member
Direction is hardly the problem in most comic book movies. It's the writing. It's either shit, good, or mixed. I personally think MOS is the most impressive hero movie when it comes down to visuals. Even when it's obvious CG, it's not obvious enough to ruin the scene. But the script was shit. Affleck saw the script was shit and got his buddy hired to rewrite it. We don't know if it's instantly going to be great since the original story is still intact but their credentials speak for themselves.
BadAss2961
Member
Yeah, i'm thinking critically as well as commercially. I'm not banking on Nolan level success since a lot of critics have it in for Snyder, but Ben is 100% the reason why I think they'll at least go into the film positively. People love that dude.
Affleck is the only reason I have any hope in this movie and even than I have very little hope with how bad I think the last couple DC movies have been. I hope they turn it around but to me it still feels like I will believe it when I see it.
Superman isn't human. He is an alien. He carries himself how he percieves humans to be. Weak and insecure. Must I post Bill's observation from Kill Bill about the subject? "Consider this mercy."? No.....
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
Cavill trying to be badass is sooooo bad
Marion Cobretti
Member
BvS threads are becoming increasingly impossible to read.
People are arguing about the most asinine nonsense ever.
Why must people insist on talking shit or arguing about a movie they haven't seen, or clearly want to fail.
So damn annoying. Every single thread.
People are arguing about the most asinine nonsense ever.
Why must people insist on talking shit or arguing about a movie they haven't seen, or clearly want to fail.
So damn annoying. Every single thread.
I think that's exactly the point. Superman is talking to a kid -- he is a god amongst men.
We are talking shit about a trailer and some scenes we have seen.
"But, big brother, the trailer isn't necessary representing the whole movie.
Shut up, Mokuba. It does. That's why they put it out. To make people excited with content from the movie. According to you, people couldn't get excited either, because they didn't see the film yet. So, are companies generally stupid to put out trailers in your eyes? We work with what the company gives us and if people think that it looks bad, than they have every right to complain. Affleck looking like a dork is right there in front of our eyes. We are not talking about the possible scene of Lex Luthor juggling the seven dragonballs, we are talking about officially released promotional material we are supposed to see and judge.
That comes across quite plainly, but I think it's hurting the film. Why on this earth would the Justice League need this particular Batman? He doesn't display any traits that would make him invaluable to a group consisting of omnipotent demigods.
He has a sweet crib, I'll give him that.
I don't like that thought at all. The Superman I know and like is a humble man who doesn't see himself above others.
Yeeeeah, even if it's intentional, that doesn't automatically make it compelling. Interviews previously pegged Batman as the older, more seasoned crime fighter. Making him look like a putz doesn't make much sense to me, especially from a power struggle standpoint. Superman can turn him into mush any time he wants, everyone knows this, which is why it makes more sense to have Batman be the more collected and confident one of the two, if only to make this feel like an actual conflict instead of a lopsided match between a god and a man pouting in a mask.
But that's all premature conjecture based on a snippet of footage. I'll wait to form a concrete opinion but these clips haven't inspired much confidence.
Lokimaru
Member
Batman is the aggessor in this Flick not Superman, Remember the party scene Superman thinks Batman's going too far. Imagine if the Criminal Batman had Branded and chained up was a Black Man, people would have gone apeshit.
Schweinehund
Member
It really depends on the context. Some people are probably taking this as Superman making a sincere threat with malice. I find the delivery unsuitable for that context
Possible movie spoiler
I read it more as him being coerced to make the threat, atleast that's what I'm piecing together from Faraci's reporting. In that case I think the delivery is fine.
But like Bobby says we won't know until the movie comes out, so it's pointless to debate it.
Why are we imagining this scenario?
family_guy
Member
Affleck's Batman voice sounded more natural in the theatrical trailer.
I'm not a fan of Ack Snyder at all and I wish DC would stop giving him work for the superhero genre. But i think there is particular portrayal of batman can work. Why is he not calm and collected? Well maybe he feels a righteous cause in taking down Superman, built up anger, feeling helpless, etc. I'm not going to dismiss it right off the bat.
Superman's delivery is bad. I thought this was going to be one of those joke clips that Conan sometimes does. But even then, there is a context where it can work. Maybe Supes isn't made to be a tough guy!
Lokimaru
Member
I'm just saying it would shine a different light on Batman's action but since no one gives a shit about the chained up white guy it's all good.
I don't know what comparison you're trying to illustrate here.
I really like the looks of the Batman suit they're using for this movie and to clarify I mean the normal one, not the crazy armored up version he uses against Supes. However is it just me or does Ben Affleck look kind of odd in it.
I can't quite put my finger on it but it almost looks like he isn't comfortable in it... if that makes sense? I do think he can pull off Bruce and the character in general but just something odd about the suit on Affleck.
I can't quite put my finger on it but it almost looks like he isn't comfortable in it... if that makes sense? I do think he can pull off Bruce and the character in general but just something odd about the suit on Affleck.
As to your spoiler: I think that's entirely possible. That was one of the major plot points in the Dark Knight Returns.
Superman was basically Ronald Reagan's lapdog
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