silvermember
Banned
Yup, truly amazing.
Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
Yup, truly amazing.
anime plot meets logical criticism
the part that i love is the fans who are so detached from the real world and bought into the shitty fake one that they refuse to see really obvious comparisons and insist that this magical powder is not in any way similar to someone actually being drugged
Anton Sugar
Member
The Western censorship of artistic creativity must end!
Ethics aren't universal either so it doesn't make much difference; different groups from different eras or even regions will have different rules, be they personal or societal.
Yes, it can be ethical. An easy example. If I'm kidnapped, society will permit me to drug my captor to ensure my safety. Hell, you're even allowed to kill someone in self defense. Again, context is everything.
In a piece of fiction!
Reminds me of "The zombies in TLOU aren't actually zombies!" Or "Its okay to sexualize this 12 year old anime girl because she is actually a 1000 year old dragon just disguised as a 12 year old!"
Gotdatmoney
Member
This is perhaps the craziest thingbI have every read. Woman with dating trouble is the same as kidnapped indivudual. Man, I really do not want to have a daughter.
dreamlongdead
Member
I just hope the localization team still maintains a good story arc for that character in order to compensate for the text removal.
I really don't want Nintendo to censor anything else about this game.
I really don't want Nintendo to censor anything else about this game.
because fantasy worlds and the elements in them have no relation whatsoever to real people in the world and things that happen to them so people who think this is shitty and are glad that it's gone are crazy for censorship
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Wait which one was she then?
Because her appearance looks almost identical to someone else
Waylon Drums
Member
The fact that there's even an argument about this bums me out.
King Gilga
Member
Good, honestly I wish they'd redo stuff for most anime games to make them less anime, would make them a lot better.
at least there's an argument happening here
in japan apparently not enough people think it's a problem for that to happen
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Lol at the extreme moral relativism. Even if I follow your twisted logic, you do understand we're talking about LOCALIZATION? As in adapting the game's content to be consumed by a specific cultural group? A group that might not look positively at spiking drinks and gay conversion? How is that so hard to grasp?
Spoiler time.
She's his daughter, she can't dance, he can dance. she's successful on hitting women, he's not. He's extremely shy, she's shameless. She's just a play one all his identifying character traits, just like he did the same with Olivia.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Hellsing321
Member
That sounds all kinds of fucked up.
Or more like creates one where there wasn't one.
Anime is serious business.
Misrepresenting anime is serious business.
Applying context is serious business.
Ignoring context is serious business.
Arguing context is irrelevant is serious business.
Everything is serious business.
Accept this now, lovers of anime. You will not win. Ever. That's the end game.
Everything you do is shameless. Everything your medium of entertainment does is shameless. It's an afront to whatever the current moral crusade of the day is, because it somehow manages to offend all of them, simultaneously.
You want to be released from this curse? Renounce your anime ways and you'll be saved.
#TeamPurity
poet at play
Banned
I've come here to read the thoughts of those who condone censorship. Fascinating.
My favourite series, Yakuza, would have to undergo some serious clipping to arrive on a Nintendo platform - given the 'tranny' bars, the Saejima / Haruka segment in Y4, the mud-wrestling, etcetera.
There's no way I could ever feel comfortable buying Nintendo.
My favourite series, Yakuza, would have to undergo some serious clipping to arrive on a Nintendo platform - given the 'tranny' bars, the Saejima / Haruka segment in Y4, the mud-wrestling, etcetera.
There's no way I could ever feel comfortable buying Nintendo.
vainglorious
Member
Seriously? There are people in this thread trying to explain this away?
First off, there isn't any context or subtext being missed here. So fuck off with that. When a "magic powder" is being used without someones consent or knowledge to make them HALLUCINATE, I'm sorry but that's a pretty strong allegory for drugs and getting fucking roofied.
And Soleil appearing totally fine after being drugged with magic fucking powder does not make the act of drugging someone without their knowledge or consent ok or defensible. You know what that's called? It's called shitty sexist waifu writing. That's what that fuck it is.
Some of you should hang out at one of Michelle Bachmann's gay conversion clinics because what the fuck.
First off, there isn't any context or subtext being missed here. So fuck off with that. When a "magic powder" is being used without someones consent or knowledge to make them HALLUCINATE, I'm sorry but that's a pretty strong allegory for drugs and getting fucking roofied.
And Soleil appearing totally fine after being drugged with magic fucking powder does not make the act of drugging someone without their knowledge or consent ok or defensible. You know what that's called? It's called shitty sexist waifu writing. That's what that fuck it is.
Some of you should hang out at one of Michelle Bachmann's gay conversion clinics because what the fuck.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Is it somehow news to you that people will have debates over pieces of fiction because of the themes and messages in them?
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Boo hoo hoo. Another poor victim of the big bad Pee Cee culture.
poet at play
Banned
Oh dear ! Hallucinogens and sexism in art ! All must be cosy and agreeable ! Censor it !
Raven117
Member
Well, it isn't censorship when its the creator making the change to boost sales and appeal to a bigger audience.
Censorship is not implicated here.
On a general note, censorship is a real concern that spans many different mediums...To take the notion lightly, regardless if you agree with what is being censored, is to shake a pillar of artistic integrity, creativity, and personal freedom. (Again, not implied here...games while art...also are a product that must generate sales....)
Just my .02.
Censorship is not implicated here.
On a general note, censorship is a real concern that spans many different mediums...To take the notion lightly, regardless if you agree with what is being censored, is to shake a pillar of artistic integrity, creativity, and personal freedom. (Again, not implied here...games while art...also are a product that must generate sales....)
Just my .02.
You're kidding yourself if you think this scene was intended to be challenging to the audience in any way. It's more like actually embracing a homosexual character would be (or is assumed to be) too challenging to the JAPANESE audience so they have to pull bullshit like literally fixing her with magic dust.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Well that's exactly what they're doing so...yeah?
Also your statement implies some sort of artistic expression here like what's being censored is really pivotal to the audience's intended emotional reaction or something. Kinda weird.
Edit-For instance, if a character's backstory or w/e had them doing something really fucked up, whether it be drugging someone or murder or w/e and that was removed I would say that's censorship that changes your perception of the character. Good example of this would be Leonard in Drakengard where I'm pretty sure they tried to sweep his backstory under the rug entirely in the English version.
The problem here is that it's treated as cozy and agreeable by the characters involved lol.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Good thing Nintendo doesn't make Yakuza.
vainglorious
Member
It also reinforces patriarchy and the idea that lesbians exist solely for the sexual gratification of heterosexual men. If a lesbian acts independently and pursues her own sexual gratification well, that's clearly not acceptable where's that fucking magic powder! YOU NEED TO LOVE MEN.
Jesus christ.
you could just lurk if you wanted to read replies
rather than just making a drive-by post like this, why not discuss your own point of view on the subject?
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
That wasn't the goal of that but whatever.
I think it's more fascinating that there are people here who condone roofieing someone. Like, censorship aside, there are people here actively defending the characters actions.
Art? Please, lets not pretend this is anything other than gross otaku baiting.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
Did I say they were they were the same? Your question was: ''Is it ethical to put drugs in a fully capable adults body without consent?''
I said yes and gave you a pretty obvious example. If you meant to ask me whether it was ethical for Corrin to drug Solei, you should have asked that. In that case, I hereby declare that it is okay to slip people mind altering drugs if
-their only effect is a temporary gender swapped perception of the world
-it is done in good faith
-it is done in hopes of helping them overcome a debilitating weakness
Happy?
The only lol worthy thing is the clickbait NWR article. Nintendo said that the controversial material will not be present not that it was removed, which is a pretty important distinction. There was no gay conversion therapy and the spiking is overblown because people connect it to date rape which couldn't be further from what happened in Fates.
Watch this video which has accurate translation and all the context you need.
Cultural sensibilities are a poor argument because then you would be okay with Nintendo's English localization of Vivian; they censored her being trans. I mean at that time (and sadly even now) the West does not look favorably at trans characters so better remove them, right?
Yeah there's localization that actually harms the artistic integrity of the original product and then there's this.
vainglorious
Member
But that's what's actually happening in that scene. People want an appreciation of context and subtext? Appreciate that.
And the context is no permission was given. Ask before you give someone a fucking drug! This should not be such a wild idea. Your DOCTOR is supposed to okay drugs and treatments with you, even when it's to help you overcome a problem you want help with
InsaneTiger
Member
Why are you on GAF then?
What do you actually hope to accomplish by acting this way towards people who you (believe) to be wrong?
Do you think they're realize the error of their ways "Oh this person is mocking me, I must have been totally mistaken about everything"
Grow the fuck up.
You don't like people constantly shouting the "censorship" banner all willy nilly? Give them good, solid reasons why it's not.
Find the actual translated text. Reference the specific lines that make it clear that A. Soliel is a lesbian, B. She was drugged, C. That drugging sitiation is equivalent to a date-rape situation D. In the event A was true, that she was "converted" to straight because of it.
Because so far these are the key points I've seen people here (and elsewhere) claim it to be.
Like I have no doubts that the Japanese at large are still behind the times when it comes to acceptance of homosexual/bisexual depictions.
But literally the only qualm I have in the situation in the first place is the fact that the powder was delivered to her via spiking her drink. Something that is culturally (as in prominent in the media) relevant to current happenings in the US.
Had this been done any other way (Magc spell, wishes, whatever), and the situation was still played out in the exactly the same way (she didn't know about it, was told immediately), it wouldn't be seen in nearly as bad of a context.
What?
Like, if we take the entire premise of the powder, it was so that she actually COULD be comfortable around women. By making himself look like a woman, he could act as a control that she would be able to work up a tolerance towards being around without fainting as she appears to do normally.
Like.....
What?
Edit: PS, I agree with the idea that it's not "censorship" in that Nintendo is a corporate entity and Fire Emblem is a product of this entity. They are fully within their rights to make any changes as they see fit to any product they own.
At most people could perhaps argue messing with the "intent of the artist", but then that's impossible to prove without the developers themselves coming out and saying so.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Again, the overall problem with this is that whether or not she was "dateraped", she's still ultimately a straight character with or without the Male MC doing anything.
That's the big problem with framing this as turning a lesbian into a straight person.
Couldn't agree more. The reaction on here and on the Japanese sites posted earlier confirms that Nintendo made the correct localization choices for this market.
If you're someone who is looking for the original Mickey-slipping experience, no one is being stopped from ordering the original from Japan with a 3ds and following with a translation guide.
When the government stops importation of the product and halts sales, we can talk 'censorship'.
It's a question I ask myself everyday :-(
R_thanatos
Member
But drug can be different depending of the context ... taking a drug in order to cure is actually called "medecine".
So throwing the word "drug" as a general term when the intent is different with context , yeah people will ( and should ) see the difference.
People take drugs to calm down and keep their cool all the time in our current society...there are differences (specific differences) in this case that shouldn't be cast aside while making dubious comparaisons
Scientist Supreme!
Banned
You wrote it in a way to imply that was what the developers wanted you to do. For the MC to make her love men which wasn't/isn't(?) the case.
sensui-tomo
Member
just wondering, do we know how the other romance links (i forget actual term) work? I'd laugh if kamui is the sole person to do this.
GuillaumeNWR
Neo Member
I watched the video. What was debunked? The guy can keep saying "it's totally innocent" all he wants, he just comes across as someone who'd see lesbians making out and say "oh they're just very good friends".
She gets weak at the knees when around cute girls and asks them out. Claiming she's not gay only makes you look clueless.