Shaki12345
Member
Sure, but 2.0 still supports VRR.
Nintendo removes all mentions of VRR Docked compatibility from their websites.
- Thread starter Shaki12345
- Start date
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
Oh. Ok. Well hopefully they can sort something out. Maybe its not ready for launch like ps5.
But, they need to come out and officially communicate it.
Topher
Identifies as young
They had Bowser come out pretty quick to defend their game's prices so I don't see why they couldn't provide a simple explanation here.
Shaki12345
Member
Nintendo doesn't know how to communicate at this point.
They aren't interested in controlling the narrative it seems.
I think there's a lot of confusion internally atm.
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Deerock71
Member
Guardian Monkey
Member
That would sound right then. HDMI 2.0 would be 120hz @1080p and 60@4k lol. HDMI 2.1 has been out for five years now though. If it is 2.0 that's really unfortunate.
Bowser was just doing a routine interview to promote launch afaik.
Shaki12345
Member
It is HDMI 2.0 according to DF. They also said the S2 would explode at 4k120.
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Guardian Monkey
Member
It doesn't, Freesync yes VRR is a hdmi 2.1 spec.
Shaki12345
Member
In the thread I linked in the OP, Oliver from DF explains that it IS possible. They also said this in the last DF Direct.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Anything above 60@4k is out of spec of 2.0. If it's really 2.0, this is a big mess up. I was wondering where the big but was going to be…
Tarin02543
Member
Great comment, not necessarily tearing but added input lag due to it needing v sync docked. Only when the framerate is hardcapped at let's say 60 and the docked S2 has spare performance will you not notice the added delay.
I'm considering canceling my pre order until Nintendo clarifies this. As someone who likes arcade shooters the lack of docked VRR would tarnish that mode of play, forcing to go handheld only.
Might as well wait for the OLED model
Shaki12345
Member
Cyberpunk docked has a 40fps performance mode.
Unless CP runs a perfect 40 with perfect frame time, it still suggests VRR is active. 40fps in a game like CP without VRR is a recipe for disaster.
My guess is that it's there, just not marketed.
ResurrectedContrarian
Suffers with mild autism
this obsession is so weird to me, but then again I'm in the camp that thinks giant 4k displays in houses are tacky -- truly feel a culture clash with people who are trying to max out a nintendo system like it's a multimedia centerpiece
Guardian Monkey
Member
As I said from my quote. Freesync was done on 2.0 yes, VRR no. No idea what Oliver said, but to my knowledge VRR (the actual HDMI spec has not been implemented on HDMI 2.0 on any device)
Shaki12345
Member
Please read my post above:
Cyberpunk docked has a 40fps performance mode.
Unless CP runs a perfect 40 with perfect frame time, it still suggests VRR is active. 40fps in a game like CP without VRR is a recipe for disaster.
My guess is that it's there, just not marketed.
Guardian Monkey
Member
It means vsync will kick in, just like any other non VRR 40 fps implementation.
Buggy Loop
Member
2000 series cards had "fake HDMI 2.1" VRR but with HDMI 2.0 bandwidth and worked, just at lower refresh rates and resolution. You ain't ever seeing >60 fps 4k on switch 2 for any respectable looking games I would say so I don't see why the issue.
I really don't think its a long term problem, just them figuring out how to explain this so customers don't come in and sue them because VRR is HDMI 2.1 and clearly the system would not have HDMI 2.1 but it still works with HDMI 2.0 for lower res / lower fps.
GHG
Gold Member
That's not how it works though. As long as you use it correctly, you'll get whatever the input delay is for the max refresh rate of your monitor/TV.
Well in my experience and it's been many years now but when I finally got an Asus monitor that supported VRR and 144hz, i found VRR to be pointless because the high frames that I ran everything at eliminated screen tearing as it was to my eyeballs. Meanwhile the VRR introduced a noticeable input lag and feeling that I did not like. So never used since.
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Topher
Identifies as young
All it takes is a tweet these days. Shouldn't be hard. Completely reasonable to expect explanation here
Shaki12345
Member
Since they can't even comment on all the noise surrounding price, there's like 0 chance this VRR thing will be addressed.
Especially via a Tweet. Now that I think about it, maybe they sponsored Digital Foundry with the Zelda video so they didn't make a VRR video
.
Guardian Monkey
Member
They had gysnc through DisplayPort and Freesync support to tvs. Turing never got full HDMI 2.1 support, that happened with Ampere.
Well that's naive. On many levels.
I think them removing the 'VRR support for tvs' wording speaks for itself. Don't plan on it being there.
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kevboard
Member
small foreword: HDMI 2.0 doesn't officially exist anymore and all 2.0 devices are now officially categorised as 2.1. but for the sake of simplicity I will word the following as if both still officially existed:
HDMI VRR was officially finalised and introduced at the same time as HDMI 2.1 but isn't limited to it. HDMI 2.0 supports it too. some of Samsung's last couple of HDMI 2.0 TVs in fact got patches to support it, and many modern PC monitors that are HDMI 2.0 also support it.
there is nothing that prohibits an HDMI 2.0 device to support VRR.
quote from flatpanelshd.com:
Now to be clear, we should emphasize that Samsung's 2018 TVs do not feature full HDMI 2.1. These TVs are still based on the HDMI 2.0 interface standard but manufacturers are allowed to cherry-pick certain features from HDMI 2.1 to bring to HDMI 2.0 based TVs
the reason HDMI 2.0 doesn't officially exist anymore is partially down to this fact. as 2.1 features worked on 2.0 devices, the main differentiating factor that remained was bandwidth, and bandwidth already was variable within the original 2.1 standard. so the HDMI forum official combined 2.0 and 2.1 into the same standard. (even tho even most manufacturers and nearly the entire public still use the old categorisations)
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Shaki12345
Member
The Nvidia spec sheet specifically mentions G-Sync for handheld mode.
Just checked it out.
Cyberpunk docked still has a 40fps mode. Without G-Sync or VRR that will be a horrible mess.
--
This shit is confusing as F. I think there's a 50/50 chance it's still there.
Just checked it out.
Cyberpunk docked still has a 40fps mode. Without G-Sync or VRR that will be a horrible mess.
--
This shit is confusing as F. I think there's a 50/50 chance it's still there.
well there's also 2 kinds of Gsync last I checked. There's the orignal Gysnc aka the hardware solution Gysnc.
And then there is Gsync compatible aka the software solution Gsync.
Was VRR only finalised in 2.1b? The hdmi forum makes it sound like it https://www.hdmi.org/spec21sub/variablerefreshrate
But I remember seeing support earlier. Maybe in an unfinalised form?
Shaki12345
Member
DF explained VRR is possible on 2.0. 2.0 is also 2.1 apparently.
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Guardian Monkey
Member
What you are referring to is Freesysnc. It was on the XBox OneX for example it had 40-60 at 4k yes for certain 2.0 Samsungs. But that's a AMD protocol and not the HDMI 2.1 VRR standard.
As far as the 2.1 and 2.0 part, they are referring to HDMI 2.1 spec item didn't have to have all the features of the full HDMI 2.1 suite. It doesn't have much to do with VRR working on a 2.0 feature components. So, I guess the rationale DF was making was that it didn't have 2.1 VRR feature if someone did implicitly state it was 2.0. I don't know or can't answer for that as I have not listened to it.
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Topher
Identifies as young
Unreal
kevboard
Member
No I'm not.
the rest of your comment is therefore irrelevant and I won't even read it.
I have a link in my previous post that leads you to a 2.0 monitor that supports HDMI VRR.
and for the Samsung TVs I mentioned here's more from the same article I quoted:
FreeSync is one of the systems supported by Samsung's new TVs, meaning that you can use them as a capable gaming monitor for your PC.
The other supported system is HDMI 2.1's so-called VRR (variable refresh rate), which is the HDMI Organization's standardized version that largely resembles FreeSync in form and function but is intended for TVs. It is not identical to FreeSync, according to Samsung. Now to be clear, we should emphasize that Samsung's 2018 TVs do not feature full HDMI 2.1. These TVs are still based on the HDMI 2.0 interface standard but manufacturers are allowed to cherry-pick certain features from HDMI 2.1 to bring to HDMI 2.0 based TVs, as we reported in January. That is why Samsung can bring VRR support to its latest TVs.
Kataploom
Gold Member
Boy too much drama and it's only only having negative ideas, the thing is going have VRR on TVs, there's just no way it won't, it makes no sense for me that wouldn't, even Cyberpunk 2077 is gonna have a 40 fps mode at launch which I don't think it would without VRR. I'm sure the reasons why they removed it from the website is other and not there the feature is not in the console. Can't imagine it being the case.
Shaki12345
Member
You don't know anything we don't.
At this point it is unclear if VRR is available in docked mode.
That's just plain fact. The drama is justified. If S2 doesn't have VRR, the next 8 years will be 30fps 3rd party hell.
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Kataploom
Gold Member
And I'm saying it will, that so of this is more fake drama, just chill and get away from the internet until Nintendo PR team stops being out full retard mode and clarifies that.
Guardian Monkey
Member
Yeah it can pull full bandwidth over DisplayPort not HDMI. Pulled directly from the monitor review in bold. It's not full VRR.
Native Refresh Rate
240 Hz
Max Refresh Rate
240 Hz
Max Refresh Rate Over DP
240 Hz
Max Refresh Rate Over HDMI
144 Hz
Max Refresh Rate Over DP @ 10-bit
240 Hz
Max Refresh Rate Over HDMI @ 10-Bit
60 Hz
You can reach the monitor's max refresh rate over DisplayPort, but your graphics card needs to support Display Stream Compression (DSC) to reach the max refresh rate with 10-bit signals over DisplayPort. It also has a DSC Support setting to disable DSC if you prefer not to use it altogether. Because this monitor only has HDMI 2.0 bandwidth, the maximum refresh rate with HDMI is significantly slower.
Topher
Identifies as young
The drama is due entirely to Nintendo's PR team being in "full retard mode", unfortunately.
Shaki12345
Member
They have been in retard mode since Reggie left.
They are utterly clueless. No idea what to do. I'm sure internally it's a big mess.
Even the Directs are bad these days. Everything shown in MK Direct has been shown before.
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don't plan on it being there. problem solved.
Topher
Identifies as young
Not sure if they are clueless or just don't give a shit. Not sure which is worse either.
Bitstream
Member
Seeing Shaki's heel turn over this VRR mess has been a treasure to watch unfold.
As someone on the fence for the Switch2, I've been riding this rollercoaster with him step by step.
Why is it that every time we here more about the console, it's somehow gotten worse?
Its got DLSS > It's coming at a future SDK, can't verify it
It does Ray Tracing > 0 actual proof of this so far
Its got VRR > Handheld mode only?
As someone on the fence for the Switch2, I've been riding this rollercoaster with him step by step.
Why is it that every time we here more about the console, it's somehow gotten worse?
Its got DLSS > It's coming at a future SDK, can't verify it
It does Ray Tracing > 0 actual proof of this so far
Its got VRR > Handheld mode only?
Shaki12345
Member
Like I said before:
Switch 2 is the dude on Tinder promising a nice dick which eventually ends up below average.
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StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Given Nintendo's preference to be last gen since Wii, I think it's safe to say unique controls like Wii waggling, Switch hybrid and Switch 2 mouse controls (anything that is physical and can be seen) hold true. Anything spec related, everyone shouldnt hold their breath on great specs and features unless proven true. Look how archaic their online is.
Leave it to Nintendo to repackage old specs into a new twist. Might be cool, but the core specs will likely be nothing special at all especially if someone has been gaming on PC, PS, Xbox the past 5-10 years.
A shame since back in the day, their older consoles always tried to be contending for top specs at a good price of $199.
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PaintTinJr
Gold Member
Pretty sure the console's custom (nerfed) RTX 3050 mobile has frame-gen with its ML AI hardware, so Nintendo offering VRR support makes little sense if a dev can either FG from 24fps to 30fps or FG from 40fps to 60fps.
It is a much simpler solution for Nintendo with least support work - for their hardware - and compatibility testing for Mario club to still work with any TV that at least supports HD ready(720p@60hz/1080i@60hz) and have games be 30Hz or 60Hz IMO.
It is a much simpler solution for Nintendo with least support work - for their hardware - and compatibility testing for Mario club to still work with any TV that at least supports HD ready(720p@60hz/1080i@60hz) and have games be 30Hz or 60Hz IMO.
Guardian Monkey
Member
I thought it didn't run that well, due to tensor? cores being too low on the 30 rtx series. Of course this is custom hardware so who knows how this is implemented differently as this is the first nvidia console since this came about.
Bitstream
Member
This is a gaming enthusiasts forum, and despite your inability to accept it, VRR actually matters a great deal.
I don't give a shit if the console does well financially, and I'm not quite sure why you do.
Shaki12345
Member
You think like a Nintendo CEO. Not as a gamer.
I got this baby pre-orderer. I was extremely positive during Direct. But Nintendo being Nintendo, every day more bad news started coming in.
- It started with the horrible game pricing.
- Soon after the "Pro" Controller is confirmed as not having HAL.
- Then it turns out it also doesn't have analogue triggers so we can't even play racing games or drive normally in a open world game.
- Then it seems to lose VRR.
As a gamer these things are important to me. Especially when a damn controller is more expensive than the competition and has less options.
As a gamer and longtime day 1 Nintendo fan, I'm really thinking hard about cancelling the preorder since these practices are beyond what I deem acceptable as a fan and a consumer and I only play Mario Kart at launch anyways.
I want to be respected. To be honest, I only feel respected by Xbox and that says a lot doesn't it?
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matters so much the Switch 2 will sell out. must not be gaming enthusiasts buying it.
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Who's making sure the Switch 2 launch is sold out except for gamers?
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