Nintendo Removes Controversial Fire Emblem Fates Conversation
- Thread starter Tom Nook Sawyer
- Start date
vainglorious
Member
It's not the responsibility of posters in this thread to walk on egg shells so that some can continue to feel comfortable in their privileged bubbles.
Oh wow really? That's good I hope that gets axed in the next game. Do you have a link to the poll results?
Are you forgetting about the replacement characters? There are only two required pairs (and they're set to be the same pairs every time anyway), then :B Everyone else can just not reproduce.
Really, huh. I hadn't heard that. TBH, even if I was into such a feature, I still think touching is, for the type of feature it is, not fleshed out at all. >.> I could imagine people who like that kinda thing being disappointed. Though I don't know the standards for such a minigame lol
DecoReturns
Member
If your gonna have children. Make it like FE 4 or like FE 7 was to 6.
In fact I was actually hoping that awakening had a game based off the horrible world the kids were in. But that was DLC and of course fans would go crazy for whos really the kids dad.
I'm not, but then again technically Chrom doesn't have to be married to any character and all and a just generic maiden. You're gimping yourself in both cases (well except for one replacement character who might be better than the real character but I forgot who off the top of my head). It's not like In awakening as well, where you can actually still use the first gen.
And I"m with you on hte face rubbing ... it's really really boring.
To be fair to Tharja2, that was a character poll IIRC so she was brought back on fan request. Same for a few others with white hair too, I think.
KirbYuuYuu
Member
Famitsu results I will add.
https://kantopia.wordpress.com/2015/09/09/fire-emblem-fates-famitsu-survey-results-translated/
There is other things of note in the poll.
A Link to the Past
Banned
Tomodachi Life?
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Unfortunately I cannot bear to play on handhelds. The 3DS is even worse than the PSP because it starts really hurting my hands after a while (even with the plastic add-on grip). I couldn't even finish Tactics Ogre on the PSP, though I loved it.I'm playing Tactics Ogre on GBA, it truly feels like the product of an era that's long goneA top notch SRPG without shitty dating sim elements and awful pandering character designs is not something we'll see happening a lot these days.
If you want a recent recommendation, try Mercenaries Saga 2 on 3DS. It's kind of a miracle that something like it exists, and apparently it was very successful for Circle Entertainment.
If you think it hurts to see Fire Emblem becomes what it has become, imagine being a Shining Force fan. Not only do you get shitty art full of shitty fanservice done by a hentai artist instead of the cool classic art of before, but you don't even get any cool SRPG gameplay because it's all terrible action games now. ;_;
Yup.
Probably should note there are some spoilers in there
One of the answers mentions something that happens in the
third route
Jeez, I feel for you. Both because of the fate of Shining Force and because of your issue with handhelds - I'm playing on a GB Micro of all handhelds!
Weltall Zero
Member
I have a feeling homosexuals aren't as tiny a minority as made out ot be. According to several studies they seem to make up about 5% of population, and it doesn't seem to me that 5% of all fictional romance in things such as mainstream movies is gay.
Still, I never said this was caused by homophobia; more likely ignorance, lack of perspective, misconceptions about what the general public wants, and so on. But whatever the reasons, I see no damage in trying to change the status quo.
But again that's precisely the issue. The few ones that are made are so rare that the one big thing setting them apart is that they are gay romances, plus often those making them feel an obligation to be militant in their once in a blue moon chance to enlighten the general public. If gay romances were more common, that in itself would organically make (force, even) to lend more nuance and depth other than "this is gay romance".
Take it another way. If as per Sturgeon's Law 90% of everything is crap, you need to have those ninety crappy works to get the ten good ones, right?
The question is why should you? Is it morally wrong for a gay person to consider romance less universal than you do, and to want something that, in their view, better represents them? Is it wrong for them to want the world to acknowledge their existence?
Let's invert the situation. If 99.9% of all romance fiction was based on gay relationships, do you honestly believe that no heterosexual person would ever object?
It's neither of these; it's simply the default, which is, in a way, worse. The solution isn't to condemn authors but to let them know of alternatives, often by exposing them to examples. For as much (unwarranted) vitriol that feminist comentators on videogames' sexism has garnered, many developers have also reported being made to think about those issues and deciding to voluntarily change the way they do things, including more, better balanced female characters.
Basically, let's assume misinformation rather than malice, but let's also push for more visibility.
Preach
I was kinda hoping Priam would get his spinoff ... without the awful hero design from Awakening.
But after Fates, i kinda don't want any callbacks to older games now. I want each game to stand on their own legs.
I agree, going from the worst entry in the series to a more recent one would be quite shocking in terms of the jump in quality.
EDIT: On a related note to Fates, there's a website dissecting the problems with how Intelligent Systems/Shin Kibayashi handled the depiction of its gay characters, including Soleil (it's in Japanese but going through it briefly via Google Translate would suggest that said depictions weren't very well-received by the LGBTQ community in Japan.)
DecoReturns
Member
I kinda hated his design, but
I still don't know why he existed. To disprove that strange Ike conspiracy of him being in love with Soren?
To show some FE 9/10 love?
I rather they made a game showing where the hell Ike went.
I'll never understand the love from Radiant Dawn. All that game did was pretty much take everything good about Path of Radiance and crap on it. Unbalanced difficulty, tons of useless characters, half-assed supports which meant no one aside from the protagonists had any sort of characterization. Look at Soren for the perfect example: he had a grand total of 3 lines of dialogue despite being a major character in PoR. RD also holds the distinction of killing FE games on consoles forever.
The only reason it wasn't the worst for me is because the gameplay itself was still strong despite their best attempts to sabotage it.
DecoReturns
Member
Soren was a major part of the story during part 3. Also it's unfair to blame this game for its franchise dying, Awakeing had some of the worst and easiest gameplay, yet it's most successful.
When did we start talking about Shadow Dragon?
They show FE 9/10 alot of love unlike 6/7/8.
And they pretend 4/5 never existed. 8 might be on this tier instead of 6/7.
I unironically love Radiant Dawn.
Yes it has issues, but I love its cast so much. I probably beat it 6 or 7 times.
DecoReturns
Member
One of the supports mention FE 4 no?
Sumia was reading a book or something like that or was it only in the English Translation.
In Japanese, she reads a book called FE4's Japanese subtitle, the English game changed the title to "Ribald Tales of the Faith War" It's still a reference.... but they certainly.... did something. lol
DecoReturns
Member
Hm? The bonus box calls FE4 Geneaology of the Holy War in the english version. (Albeit abbreviated due to space)
I don't think they should remake 4/5 without Kaga involved , would seem inauthentic to me.
Would just rather have new games.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
I think unbalanced difficulty means "too hard and I'm too proud to play on easy", if anything it's a nice step up from PoR being the easiest game in the series.
I thibk useless characters as a complaint is sort of valid but the gulf between Fiona and Haar is as big as the gulf between Titania and Rolf, Rolf is just in an easier game so it's less noticeable.
I have mixed feelings on Radiant Dawn but I'm also in the middle of replaying it.
DecoReturns
Member
Thing is, isn't Fiona not able to fight much in the first place due to chapter availability? It's been forever since I've played RD though
Subjective.
If they replace it, then we'll see what they come up with. What we had works if the MC explains his plan before Soleil takes the potion.
DecoReturns
Member
True, I just want a fire emblem game where story occurres during gameplay. FE 4 was a unique experience, should still try and play 5 one of these days.
Bonen no Max'd
Banned
Triforce141
Member
Slightly off topic, but wasn't there going to be a revised fan translation of Genealogy and Thracia? Translate the game to look more official and use the updated names from Awakening, like how there was a revised fan translation of the Binding Blade?
Didn't it get cancelled because lack of interest?
Didn't it get cancelled because lack of interest?
Yes... but getting 2 exp from chip damage is kinda huge compared to not being available at all. Of course, there's always bonus exp.
Last I checked, the FE4 retranslation is done, and in editing. They're looking for someone to help with text insertion for FE5 and haven't started working on a script for that yet due to FE4 not being done yet, apparently the original text insertion tools for FE5 were lost. (and the current FE5 translation is buggy/garbled as heck so I doubt the original tools were that finished lol)
I think "unbalanced" is a fair criticism, at least, if you angle it as an unbalanced difficulty curve.
Having recently played RD on hard, I found that a handful of (if not the hardest) the trickiest maps were in Part 1. Though, that might've just been me since I refused to let my units die.
Well, there are several things going. First, video games aren't the only media that get localized from Japan. A lot of the people who are particularly passionate on this position likely come from seeing what anime and manga which had do deal with visual edits more often than video games post 2000 or so. And those were often things like less-graphically violent TV versions of anime instead of the home video release or editting out a cross in the Fullmetal Alchemist manga.
Tons of things got visually censored in the early eras of video games but less so recently. However, Xenosaga Episode 3 had /all/ of the blood removed from the game, in addition to a few other alterations, which actually had a pretty big negative impact on at least one scene. This was definitely a thing some people were pretty upset about (and some of the same arguments were made supporting the censorship).
Then there's the issue of localizations seemingly regularly altering characterization and plot points but that pretty much never gets reported on or talked about and as we've seen in this thread, a lot of people just don't care. A lot of it comes down to how people see the works and the localization process. Clearly a lot of people in video games see the English release as something completely separate from the original release and the job of localization to fix and improve it and otherwise make it more appealing to them and audiences in general. On the other hand, you have people who see the different region releases as more of a single work that by necessity has changes in language but the job the localizer to as accurately reflect the original dialogue/text as possible but nothing more. For that latter camp, the "artistic value" os entirely irrelevant. (There are also problems if you want to use that as a factor.)
I'm in the latter camp myself, though I find the scene in this game to be gross. When I learned of the scene months ago I decided I wouldn't buy this regardless of what the U.S. release did about it. I'm still against altering it in principle but I cannot begin to be upset about it here. I am concerned about it for other reasons. First, one of the tactics used to downplay and defend the scene is to claim it's because of an "inaccurate" translation so this just helps them. Second.... let's be honest, this is not happening because anyone that made the game realized it was shitty. Changing this just further insulates them from what little criticism they might have seen.
That statement smacks of lip service to me, I'll believe it when I see it. It could very well be something very half-assed.
There's already no reason not to allow same-sex pairings. If King Aurthur could make herself a magic penis to impregnate someone else, I don't see what's stopping anyone in Fire Emblem.
Crash Station
Member
It's not. Nor is it the responsibility of those being attacked to change their viewpoints through insults and ad-hominems rather than doubling down on their beliefs (which is generally what happens).
Plenty of civil discourse in here on both sides that doesn't resort to personal attacks or outrage.
Triforce141
Member
Crash Station
Member
If things were unarguably good or bad, there wouldn't be an argument at all.
The stuff with Fatal Frame V for example had people on both sides of the fence, and not for the "hating changes on principle" reason.
That being said, I see nothing wrong with the "hating changes on principle" argument either, especially when it's removing content and not replacing it in the case of XCX's swimsuit. Don't have to understand or even support the original authorial intent to not want it gone. I think those people would just rather it see the light of day and get properly criticized.
This character's plotline is homophobic.
It was not written with the intent of "AHAHAHAA I HATE LESBIANS *EVIL CACKLE" but the mindset that wrote it is one that never even considered that this was a problem, that this scenario would come off as insulting and offensive to people.
That's homophobia. Just like sexism and racism, much of it is not overt an intentional, but societal and unconscious. Calling people out on this is important, because too often people go "I can't be racist! Look at my black friends!" or "How could I be misogynistic? I love women!"
Many posters in this thread don't understand why this scene, and this character, are a problem. That is a result, in many cases, of completely unconscious homophobia. They don't even bother to consider why its a problem.
If this statement makes people mad? Well, I'm sorry. But I don't think people should get to skate on these sorts of things, and the only way to ever really resolve them is to confront it and make people consider what their actions and even thoughts really mean.
And that's why we should judge on a case by case basis, I don't understand why people refuse to do that. Regardless, this is not the thread for discussing Xenoblade and Fatal Frame localization changes, I'll just say those changes were more than justified IMHO. Didn't that underage girl get some shorts in exchange, by the way?
See, I think you're using sound reasoning in this case. Even if you generally dislike localization changes, you believe this stuff was pretty freaking crappy, and defending every terrible element that gets altered during localization is a pretty weird stance to take. We're getting a better product as a result of removing something that was bad, what's exactly the downside for that?
That's fine. Maybe someone who didn't know will see my post and realize they're two different things.