That won't satisfy them, they'll undoubtedly find something else to complain about. This game's public image is still suffering from being perceived as directionless, taking the time to censor a very tame piece of armour because of a handful of internet comments wouldn't be the best decision - they literally have nothing to gain from it.
FINAL FANTASY XV - Niflheim Base Battle Footage
- Thread starter The Last One
- Start date
- Status
That won't satisfy them, they'll undoubtedly find something else to complain about. This game's public image is still suffering from being perceived as directionless, taking the time to censor a very tame piece of armour because of a handful of internet comments wouldn't be the best decision - they literally have nothing to gain from it.
She isn't saying she's going to boycott the game or trying to start anything. She's saying the design breaks her suspension of disbelief. That's not something she should be panned for saying. It's a valid criticism. She's clearly hyped for the game.
EDIT: @Golnei - it's probably best not to make assumptions about 'the other' side or whatever it is. There is really no 'other' side here, there need not be and it's rather disconcerting that I'm seeing this wall of defensiveness forming in the thread.
EDIT: @Golnei - it's probably best not to make assumptions about 'the other' side or whatever it is. There is really no 'other' side here, there need not be and it's rather disconcerting that I'm seeing this wall of defensiveness forming in the thread.
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
No, every FF is a self-contained story with few exceptions below:
FFX-2, FFXIII-2, Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, but also stuff like Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII or FFXII: Revenant Wings, which you certainly don't need to (shouldn't) play first.
Only basic elements like chocobos and magic names carry over installment to installment. Every numbered game is completely separate.
LowParry
Member
No. All Final Fantasies are independent of their stories. You'll see familiar monsters and summons and a traditional theme of the sorts. But entirely different cast, characters, story, etc.
plasmawave
Banned
This is what breaks her suspension of disbelief?
Nightengale
Member
It's tone deaf to an extent, sure.
But for that to be strange? I don't know if I agree. This is obviously my perception talking, but I don't think a lot of designers, especially those rooted in fantasy or sci-fi stuff overthink sensibilities and whether or not their design is perfectly logical within the context of the broader world, and instead just stretch themselves a lot.
This is true for western designers as well. Bioware & the Mass Effect team are a good example. Miranda & Samara are far from exemplary designs and in Samara's case, she's worse than Dragoon Lady here in terms of cleavage.
And I don't think I need to say too much about Chinese or Korean character designers. Just have a look at any of their MMOs, and one can tell the design stretches for females.
Given the proliferation of such design in many, many games today and the past 10 years, what it means is that it's 'normal' and only recently has that "normalcy" in design being challenged. I think that there's still not a very strong movement in character and art design to be more conservative about stuff like that. It's gotten much much stronger in recent years, sure, but I think it's really only started to reflect itself in the past 1-2 years, and mainly in the western scene.
It'll be another 4-5 years, imo, for the Asian scene, given that the cultural nuance of such stuff isn't recieved negatively for their respective regions... yet.
For it to be reflected in FFXV takes a leadership that has a very firm stance against stuff like that from day-one, and is Tabata that leader? I don't think so.
She said it does, so let's take her word for it. Who are we to say what is or isn't a valid statement on behalf of our feelings or perceptions?
The ignorant attitudes of two of the developers showed themselves when they were discussing the feedback on Cid back in April last year.
Like Nirolak posted back then:
One could probably assume that the same design thinking is applied to the disappointing dragoon lady.
It's a little disturbing that you regard this as a linear progression of primitive to progressive, completely ignoring the complexity of the cultural differences involved. Non-western cultures aren't 'less evolved' than the US merely by holding different values.
MissDeviling
Member
Not sure why it can't? It's not like I'm saying it's the only thing to do so.
Crash Station
Member
That's where I stand. Never would have expected or hoped Final Fantasy would be this.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
Well that surpassed my every expectation and moves way up my most anticipated 2016 list.
Dangansona
Member
God I hope this game is good. Development tome alone has got me scared, not the recent games in the series since I really like XIII, XIV, and especially XIII-2. The gameplay looks really nice though besides the fact it seems a little dark to see where you are warping to.
Dark_castle
Junior Member
Yep. I don't mind some fan-service, but if it comes at the expense of functionality, it disappoints me a little. This is worse than Cidney in this regards because Cidney don't really participate in combat, her wearing skimpy outfit doesn't expose her to danger aside from occasional, avoidable bruises to her exposed region from work. On the other hand, Aranea is a fighter. She could REALLY use that extra protection on the chest area, yet they're exposed because god knows why. She breathes through her breast skin?
Then again, I'm talking about a game where you have a guy exposing his entire front rear with unzipped jacket, because it's his apparent "battle armor".
FF Seraphim
Member
Holy shit just saw this, hype levels are through the roof just by the music alone. The knight woman looks pretty cool, I am assuming she is a loose form of a dragoon. Combat looks like Kingdom Hearts.
Nightengale
Member
I apologise if I come across this way. I'm Chinese/Asian living in a multicultural country, so I speak from some amount of experience and self-reflection of how my culture is.
With that being said, I don't invoke that statement to pull the "black friend" card. In a global society, even Asian culture is influenced by western developments, especially since consumption of western media is common in many Asian regions, in the Asian scene, there are a lot of learnings adopted from western cultures. HR practices are evolving for equality, improvement in education, etc.
It's a complex issue that is rooted in cultural norms and tolerances/acceptance of many different things. However, I do see changes happening on that end, and that is my opinion of the matter. I for one don't really care one way or another, since I like both ways just fine.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
is this real ? oh god.
She's the commander (or whatever the correct military term is) of the(/an?) aerial unit in Niflheim's army.
This is what FF has been teasing players with since at least VII. The numerous CGs showing the characters performing acts that we as players could only be passive observers to have now become a part of the gameplay. If you mean the tone and atmosphere of the game, the game is based off a more present-day alternate reality, and the footage here is mostly of a military complex. There are many locales that have been shown previously that look much more fantastical than what was displayed in today's ATR.
The real marketing campaign for XV starts with its official release date announcement in March. They still have yet to reveal the other combat option that is more reminiscent of past FFs, though we know nothing about it presently.
FF Seraphim
Member
Oh man... is there sky combat in this game? The warping around would be crazy if they do an aerial battle.
Yabberwocky
Member
Oh, that gorgeous attention to detail. Sorry, Prompto, you're getting lit on fire a lot.
Yeah, that's what annoys me about it, too. Noctis and co fall have practically designed clothes in an unrealistic situation - as in, dudes in shirts and sneakers that fight summon beats, get caught on fire, and hopefully get turned into toads-that-look-like-frogs. (I was so excited about that frog's jump cycle, I can't even tell you.) On the other hand, Cindy/Aranea are extremely (extremely) impractical + sexualised designs in that same unrealistic situation. In a positive comparison, and whilst we haven't seen Luna's non-formal dress design, I would say both her and Gentiana's designs are practical clothes in an unrealistic situation.
Fang in FFXIII is a great dragoon design, and she's incredibly exposed. Her outfit is my favourite out of FFXIII, and manages the 'believable practical design in an unrealistic situation' sensibility really well. Aranea's armor with a giant cleavage window... eh... not so much. Judging by Cindy's design, I'm assuming Aranea would have high-heeled boots, too, where Fang had flat sandals.
On a less-depressing-when-will-Square-get-their-act-together topic, Cidney/Cindy's grandfather is surely Cid, so they'd all be Highwind(s)...? I wonder if Aranea is related to them?
AmaterasuOni
Banned
They actually don't need to try to suspend your disbelief. They know what is their demography and they sell the game to them. Unlucky for you if you're not within that population. If they change the appeal, they change the demography as well. They probably know their tropes and selling points.
Yeah, I know feminists are fighting against this. That's why I said I hope it's not getting popular as I (and I guess majority of gamers) like the stereotypical characters. I love women. I'm 38, white, male and I always choose female character if possible. I don't see sexism there, I adore woman beauty. There shouldn't be anything wrong in that. I like scantly clad women and I have nothing against scantly clad men either - something for the women to look at as well.
There's absolutely nothing wrong in nudity, it's the most normal thing in humanity. Nudity sells, that is actually the main point in the whole discussion. Nude men, nude women, no matter what your choice is, I just hope they will still exist in the future. I like 'em, many like 'em, we should just worship their beauty.
is this real ? oh god.
It is, but old? i remember it from 2015.
The stealth sections in past FF games weren't like the one shown in this FF15 gameplay clip, which doesn't feel like a natural progression of those isolated events in those old games. This feels like a reaction to the inclusion of the modern stealth mechanic that appears in numerous games today. I think rationalizing the stealth sections shown in the footage today as anything otherwise, or trying to connect it to the series history is being disingenuous.
Hopefully these sequences will be kept to a minimum.
Gladio waltzes into battle with his whole damn chest exposed. Only protected by a shirt/jacket.
I don't think it matters.
I think people overthink things too damn much. Not every design or costume needs to be taken in a real world context. Generally despite what they say most designers make shit the way they are because they think it looks cool. This is Nomura...King of beltz and zipperz and other random shit,...because he thinks it looks cool. Realistically , Noctis and bros even if magic powers and shit was real would probably die unless they dodge every single attack throughout their adventures.
stop placing real world values on things.
That is THE worst criticism around these parts man....unless the game prides itself on being 100% lifelike...I think some liberties should be allowed.
Lighten up and stop taking everything so serious, Internet.
Nightengale
Member
That's your opinion of the inclusion. Fair enough.
I have mine. I'm a little bit sad you feel I'm being disingenuous, but I stand with my opinion.
Changing the target demographic by patching up some exposed skin isn't necessarily a bad thing. Selling her character on her character, not her lady bits, would widen the audience, even.
Can we stop with this exclusionary attitude? MissDeviling seems to be as hyped as the rest of us, or was until she started getting hammered for disagreeing with Aranea's armor design.
The problem is with objectifying women, not just about unrealistic designs. And objectifying women is still a pretty big problem even in the most civilized, progressed parts of the world.
Crash Station
Member
A passive observer is what I want to be. I don't want to be controlling a friggin turret or interacting with the environment at all unless it's outside of battle. I went to the series to satisfy my cinematic strategy fix, not my action fix.
I know I'm kind of just yelling into the void here and probably about a year or so late even though I always knew it was an ARPG, but damn is this and FF7R's battle system a one-two punch to the gut. The aspects that made me fall in love with the series are nowhere to be found. Oh well, Square has a new type of fanbase to cater to I suppose.
I'll be genuinely shocked if the second combat option is more in line with what I want, but here's hoping I guess.
plasmawave
Banned
Ironically you are the one who's judging her character based on her lady bits right now.
Kenzodielocke
Banned
Oh, okay. Doesn't make it less stupid.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
I thought this looked okay. It didn't particularly capture my imagination. "Major AAA game has stealth action set piece". I guess I've seen it all before.
I wish Square announced games like Bethesda announced Fallout 4, mere months before its release. Then we wouldn't have to dole out nuggets, of what will turn out to be mere levels in a videogame, as if it were mana from heaven.
I wish Square announced games like Bethesda announced Fallout 4, mere months before its release. Then we wouldn't have to dole out nuggets, of what will turn out to be mere levels in a videogame, as if it were mana from heaven.
yea smart move.
It was an inevitable split, I empathize with you. At the same time, I feel those elements would have chained this franchise to the past and doomed it. A lot of people feel like that's what should have happened, and that's a respectable stance.
Cool. Disingenuous most likely not. I should've reconsidered that usage, you're right.
Oh, I didn't get to respond to the other part of your previous post. When I said that Final Fantasy has been around long enough to mean different things to different people, I said so well aware of the constants that exist from a lore/setting perspective. I was talking about the gameplay. The FF franchise at large has been a third-person shooter, a tactical/strategy RPG, a multiplayer dungeon crawler, an "almost" action game (Crisis Core), etc etc.
But mainline/numbered FF has stood separate from all of that, gameplay-wise. As far as I see it, FF15 is still a spin-off wearing mainline's expensive clothes (so to speak). It's a Crisis Core or Type Zero that was pushed to the stage of prestige because of changing market realities and corporate expectations. A reaction.
But, Fallout 3 is still a Fallout, and JJ Abrams Star Trek is a Star Trek. I'm not so brash as to claim whether something is worthy of a name or number before it comes out.
Oh? If you could just point to where I passed said judgment upon her, that would be great.
They weren't like this because they couldn't implement stealth like this in the old FF games. If they could've, in the context/technical limitations/structure of their older FF games, they would have. But pre-rendered backgrounds don't lend themselves well for proper stealth.
The reason there is stealth is because the situation asks for stealth. It makes sense that the dudes wouldn't go in guns blazing to an enemy base. It's not just "hey, let's add stealth because everyone else has stealth." This game has its main characters on the run/occasionally hiding from an enemy military, creating some stealth sections/mechanics makes sense in the context of the game, even if we didn't infiltrate enemy bases.
There's World of Final Fantasy for you... I fear people are forgetting about that game.
AmaterasuOni
Banned
Not pointing out anything towards her. Just saying that if you're not in a game's selling demography, then the game is not for you. To me it's that simple. There's no need for anyone to start a campaign against a game because of that. I find it utterly ridiculous to whine about things you don't like and try to change it because of that. Would you even buy that game after the changes? Would anyone buy that game after the changes? And again, I'm not pointing out anyone, just talking about the ongoing trend.
I see where the critic comes from, and I have my right to have a different opinion on the subject as well. I just don't buy a game which I don't like and let other people enjoy it.
I mean it's 2016 and mainline FF is supposed to be cutting edge. Gameplay evolves with the times and tech. It's still an RPG but going action based and including some elements like stealth (which has been around a long time; and in an action game you want to typically want dispatch enemies with the least amount of resistance) or turrets (which is a remnant of Versus XIII and it makes sense to use them in a militarized setting) works best for a mainstream audience.
Looks nice and all but ironically the only thing that seems "final-fantasy-esque" to me in this trailer is Aranea. Guess I'm part of their "target demographic" or whatever since I rather like what I've seen of her design... To be fair Kain is my fav FF character ever so I think I'm biased towards Dragooners anyway.
Citizen_Insane
Member
Looks great, but hate how the new health bars look. Too bland.
- Status