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[Joel Was Right]

Again, people arguing about this are projecting the status quo onto this older Batman. When Affleck was approached, he rejected the chance to play Batman - he didn't think the character was for him. But Snyder pitched a different character - a changed one, that had lost his "moral compass."

So whilst people debate whether or not Snyder understands the character, you should at least acknowledge that is by design an inherently different person.

The question therefore is can there be any situation/context whereby Batman kills or doesn't care about the loss of life of villains. The nightmare sequence - of which some have used as an example - is a situation that gives rationale to such a change. The warehouse scene is also, in my opinion, one that does purely because we see a man point a weapon at Martha, evoking Bruce's own nightmare of his slain mother named Martha.

The most shocking element of the film in this regard was when Superman himself concede that he would kill Batman to save his own mother. Who would have thought Superman would ever utter those words? But when Zod forced him to choose between the guilty or innocent, he chose.

This is the world these heroes are in - this is what the DCU will be like; heroes are capable of killing when forced to.

 

[Triggerhappytel]

I think people were expecting a Marvel movie that is more action oriented and filled with cheesy jokes, and I'm happy we didn't get that.

Who was honestly expecting that? Based on the director, the trailers and its predecessor there was zero reason to think it would be anything like a Marvel movie in tone or dialogue.

 

[crazyrabbits]

This is the world these heroes are in - this is what the DCU will be like; heroes are capable of killing when forced to.

Bruce didn't have to liquefy that guy in the back of the car shooting a minigun at him - the Batmobile had armor plating and that weapon wasn't doing any visible damage.

No, he just did it for the hell of it. He's not even going to rescue someone - he's just chasing a group of criminals. He's indiscriminate.

 

[Fraxin]

I've read some of the reviews and honestly, while I always believed that DC to be more serious cape books, I can understand why some people are turned off by it's grim tones. I don't think they're expecting jokes and quips, but cracking a smile (the characters are unable to be happy) seems to be an enormous chore for these characters.

Well wasn't The Dark Knight trilogy the same?

 

[Alienous]

Also Snyder misunderstands The Dark Knight Returns really badly.

Moments like Batman with the sniper rifle work because he doesn't kill. You're supposed to think "Is that a sniper rifle? Is he going to break his rule", them it's revealed as a sniper that shoots a long-range projectile. If he kills the bait & switch is rendered meaningless, and he kills just after that moment in the same scene.

And the Batman/Superman fight was to teach Superman what pain is. If Batman wanted to kill Superman in TDKR he would have, but that wasn't the point. But in this film Batman intends to kill, so he's basically a sadist who wants Superman to feel pain then be put out of his misery.

The "I believe you" scene was Batman jumping to using a gun, not killing. One step closer to doing it, as the story builds up to him breaking his rule for the Joker (which even then he doesn't quite do). You can interpret it as him shooting the hostage taking mutant gang member in the head, but there's no bullet would in the head, and the rest of the story doesn't acknowledge this murder or manslaughter (the police charge Batman with everything they can, and those charges aren't included).

"Rubber bullets" Snyder.

The problem is he thinks he understands it. It's like Chinese whispers for him.

 

[Jonbo298]

Metropolis is based on New York City.

The naming just bugs me then. I can better connect Gotham City to NYC than Metropolis since it's not "Metropolis City".

 

[Spehornoob]

Saw it last night.

I honestly think that I disliked this movie more than any other superhero movie I've seen.

Movies like Batman And Robin/Batman Forever/The Fantastic Four aren't good movies, but they at least try to have a little fun. This movie was dour and joyless, and lacked any character depth or thematic exploration to make it interesting otherwise.

Character motivations are either one dimensional (Bats) or nonexistent (Luthor, who is also grating and irritating every moment he's on screen). We rarely, if ever, see Superman actually doing anything heroic. There's the "saving people" montage (which feels forced and fell flat to me), and the Doomsday sacrifice (which was the highlight of the movie for his character, if only it had been earned otherwise), and that's it. Otherwise he just broods, he threatens people with death, he intimidates. I can't really understand why anyone sees him as heroic in the first place, so I can't sympathize with him he gets the sads that some people don't like him.

I don't like the changes to the characters, such as Bats and Superman clearly using lethal force, but I could at least forgive or look past that if what we got was interesting or fun. It was neither to me.

There are a couple positives. For all the disservice the writing does for him, Affleck tries so hard to save Batman in this movie. He really does a nice job and I hope the Batman movie he gets is a better representation of the character, because I think he'll nail it. The first 30 minutes are legit good and made me think this would be a good flick. Lawrence Fishburne was fun whenever he was on screen. Wonder Woman doesn't get a lot to do throughout, but she shines in the fight against Doomsday, being the only one seeming to have fun playing the role.

I dunno, I hope some people enjoy it, but I, personally, just had no fun. And even among some of the infamously bad superhero movies, I could always have some fun.

EDIT: I realized that I used "fun" a lot in this. When I say that, I don't just mean colorful happy fun times, or sarcastic quips everywhere like the Marvel movies. I just mean doing something interesting, seeing the actors enjoying or honestly playing to their character's strengths. When Supes is saving people, I should be happy, even if the movie overall has a dark tone. I never got any of that out of this.

 

[Lord_Santa]

The movie isn't terrible, but it could have been much better. A missed opportunity if you ask me. If they had made it more focussed like Man of Steel and didn't try to cram too many narratives and plot threads into the film it would have been great. The first half showed a lot of potential (besides the bad editing and cuts, again, a symptom of trying to handle to many arcs), loved the"Granny's Iced Tea" scene and the first encounter with Batman with the two police officers, quality quality stuff.

This is what angers me a little, there was a great superhero movie somewhere in there, but they felt the need to include lots of Justice League references and give Lois a bigger role than she deserved. I didn't mind Wonderwoman, she was great, but I still don't know why she was hanging around Metropolis\Gotham (Maybe I missed something?). Overall, a missed opportunity to tell a good story.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I'ma just post my impression from the other thread, a total waste of a movie. A absolute mess.

Alright, time for to post my full non-spoiler thoughts on the film. It's horrendous.

As I said before, I expected nothing but a trainwreck but figured it'd still be somewhat fun like Spider-Man 3 or the Transformers sequels. You know something which we can all agree is awful but you can still sit back and laugh at how horrible it is. I was not laughing at any point of BvS. No, instead my mouth was agape at several moments in the film as I tried to understand and process just what I was seeing on screen. Snyder utterly destroys the concept of both Batman and Superman and proves he never understood the characters.

So, where to start? Well, the movie is a bloated mess with some of the worst editing and pacing I've seen in a while. Whoever said that the movie picks up after the first half or is more coherent afterwards is a liar. The entire movie is a gigantic clusterfuck. Entirely different scenes just happen one after another without any setup and sequences which should be one continuous sequence are chopped up as the movie cuts away to other events. Oh and the soundtrack is pretty goddamn horrendous. I don't know, maybe if you are a child like Zack Snyder you appreciate heavy metal rock music blaring at maximum volume at even the smallest things but I do not. What else? Well, Eisenberg is as terrible as he seems in those trailers. I guess if you liked what you saw in those trailers then you'll "enjoy" his weird, quirky portrayal of Lex Luthor but I literally wanted to pull my eye balls out every time he was on screen.

And then there is the god awful third act, like something ripped straight out of a terrible video game. Oh and the setup for the JL is just shoved in with as much elegance as you would expect from Snyder. This movie seems to basically violate all aspects of basic film making and then deign to present itself as some higher form of art immune to criticism. I don't even know how the DCU can recover from this. I honestly would prefer if they entirely reboot everything again because I don't want to watch any franchise with the incarnations of these characters.

SPOILER STUFF:

-WHY THE FUCK IS BATMAN MURDERING PEOPLE!? He's literally killing people without any remorse and seems to enjoy doing so.
-What was up with those Knightmare sequences? Why did Bruce know things in the dream sequences that he couldn't possibly have known in real life yet? Is he a goddamn Oracle?
-Why was some chic just laying in Bruce's bed, presumably him having just slept with her? Does Snyder not know that playboy Bruce Wayne IS JUST AN ACT!?
-Why in FUCK'S name is Batman USING A GUN!?
-Did we need to see the death of Bruce's parents again in gruesome detail? Why does even Thomas Wayne have to be a fighter?
-More destruction! MORE! I's okay the streets are clear this time everyone goes home at night, no one ever works late in Gotham or Metropolis.
-Superman is dead!? Superman is dead? What do we do now?


Pros:
-Lawrence Fishbourne as Perry White.
-Um, what else? Batfleck is okay despite being written horribly and stupid.
-Gal Gadot I guess is a decent WW, she doesn't really do anything in the movie except for showing up at the third act.
-That's all I can think of.

Cons:
-Everything else.

 

[FunnyBunny]

But Snyder pitched a different character - a changed one, that had lost his "moral compass."

So whilst people debate whether or not Snyder understands the character, you should at least acknowledge that is by design an inherently different person.

Here's the issue, for me at least: the movie does a poor job constructing a world where everybody acknowledges Batman has lost his moral compass.

I also think there are some elements of a character you shouldn't mess with, namely their top rule. It's a core value.

Batman would rather the Joker live to kill again rather than take his life. He doesn't kill, some would say to a fault. So breaking that rule for a half-baked plot device is disappointing.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I think people were expecting a Marvel movie that is more action oriented and filled with cheesy jokes, and I'm happy we didn't get that.

Don't be reductionist about this. I hated this steaming pile.

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

But he didn't kill Clark once he was humanized to him, that's the point. He didn't think of Superman as a person before that, rather a creature or monster ("you aren't a god and you were never a man!").

What if his mom had been called some other 1930s mom name though. If there was an Ethel Wayne Superman would have been fucked.

 

[killu4what]

Has this been mentioned. What about the other metahumans like the Enchantress, killer Croc, and el diablo. Why doesn't lex have files on those guys?


Edit

Because they're not in the Justice League.

Oh shit!!!

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

I'm reading everywhere how the action is incredible, that it is a beautiful shot but big dumb movie, etc.
But that it is dark, gloomy, strange, the characters do things they don't usually do (batman killing, etc.).
Looks like people didn't like the general way this was written. So does this mean people don't like Chris Terrio's work since he's rewritten this thing?

It's kind of interesting how everyone blames Snyder for the story. He doesn't even get writer's credit in the movie opening credits as far as I recall.

Some people were implying everyone would praise Terrio if the movie turned out great, but would blame Snyder if it didn't, I dismissed them at first, but it is eery.
Bronson Lee may in fact be right, critics hate Snyder no matter what he does. lol

 

[peanutbutterlatte]

Has this been mentioned. What about the other metahumans like the Enchantress, killer Croc, and el diablo. Why doesn't lex have files on those guys?

Because they're not in the Justice League.

 

[Plasticine]

does anyone else feel like having the Batman v Superman angle kind of ruined what this film could have been? how good would it have been to have something like this?

you could still have some suspicion between the two but instead of Batman basically hating Superman for 2/3's of the film and then suddenly have the conflict resolved in 10 mins....maybe have them work together to take down Lex

they could be saving that for the Justice League i hope

It's more like the Batman v Superman angle was ruined by everything else. They really should have made the movie about that. You could have had Bruce figure out Superman is Clark Kent. Threaten to expose him, reveal him to the government. Maybe even have Bruce Wayne get between Clark and Lois, like that cartoon you linked to. Really make them enemies until something happens that makes them team up and results in them respecting each other. Instead, the vs thing is squandered and becomes a cheap Luthor plot that Batman and Superman in any other medium would have seen through immediately. Whoever these meatheads Snyder and Terrio put on screen are, they aren't Batman and Superman.

 

[Ominym]

I'm sure every plot point has been discussed at this point. But I really liked the Batman in the human-trafficker's house scene. It was great to see that shot like a horror movie and it became one of the best Batman scenes I can think of.

To counter that, am I the only one who thought it was real dumb Gotham was approximately the New Jersey of Metropolis but Lex Luthor made it seem like Bruce Wayne never visits? Not to mention the fact Batman has been operating for 20+ years and somehow Superman (even pre-Metropolis) hasn't heard of him let alone maybe seen the Bat-Signal from across the way in the past 18-ish months?

Oh well, I didn't hate the movie. Thought Batman was great, divisive choices and all. Editing was outright obtrusive and the movie screamed DC attempting to speed through what it took Marvel years to build in film. Nonetheless, I didn't hate it, but I don't think I'd go see it or watch it again.

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

But he didn't kill Clark once he was humanized to him, that's the point. He didn't think of Superman as a person before that, rather a creature or monster ("you aren't a god and you were never a man!").

Yup.

Batman killing monstrous beings or robots (that may or may not be artificially intelligent) isn't that abnormal. Nobody gives a second thought to killing Doomsday. Superman was the enemy to be feared, an alien and a threat. Seeing the love he has for his adopted human mother is what tips him over the edge.

But oof probably could have written and filmed that scene better. The way it was written the only reason he paid attention to Superman was because of the name coincidence.

 

[Alienous]

Alandrus' impressions just reminded me of a few more things.

Bruce Wayne isn't really a playboy, Snyder. It's an act. He doesn't go to parties and chase women around.

Now you can do that, but explain. In The Dark Knight Returns Batman retires. He starts drinking. He probably leans into being a playboy. But that's because he's no longer Batman.

You can't be Batman with a hangover. What happened to this Batman? He's been active for 20 years but is the 'bat-vigilante' with a Bat-Signal? Batman's like an athlete where every night is a match; how is he bedding women and going out every night to fight crime? Is he going out every night? Semi-retired?

I don't know what the fuck is going on with that character. It's acted well, but I don't know who he is.

 

[munchie64]

Has this been mentioned. What about the other metahumans like the Enchantress, killer Croc, and el diablo. Why doesn't lex have files on those guys?

Cause that entire thing was dumb.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I think people were expecting a Marvel movie that is more action oriented and filled with cheesy jokes, and I'm happy we didn't get that.

Of course, how could anyone like anything except a Marvel type of superhero movie. It's not like we had an entire trilogy of Batman movies by a visionary director that was grounded, "dark," with serious themes which also happened to be critically and commercially acceptable.

BvS was utter shit. Again, I find it hard to even call the movie a film because of how much of a mess it is. It's a series of sequences played together on a screen, that is about as much praise as a film I can give it. It violates damn near every tenet of basic film making to create this garbage of a movie. Snyder is Dr. Frankenstein and BvS is his monster.

I'm reading everywhere how the action is incredible, that it is a beautiful shot but big dumb movie, etc.
But that it is dark, gloomy, strange, the character's do things they don't usually do (batman killing, etc.).
Looks like people didn't like the general way this was written. So does this mean people don't like Chris Terrio's work since he's rewritten this thing?

It's kind of interesting how everyone blames Snyder for the story. He doesn't even get writer's credit in the movie opening credits as far as I recall.

Some people were implying everyone would praise Terrio if the movie turned out great, but would blame Snyder if it didn't, I dismissed them at first, but it is eery.
Bronson Lee may in fact be right, critics hate Snyder no matter what he does. lol

The director is the person responsible for the overall end product, no matter what. Also, if you've seen any Snyder film then you know that this film has 100% Snyder written all over it. I also disagree with the notion that it was beautifully shot, even the cinematography is a mess. This was especially jarring to me since Snyder, despite his criticisms, usually has a unique and often times interesting visual take on his films. With BvS it's just boring, even the action scenes are shot and edited in the most confusing and uninspiring ways imaginable. I think the only good action sequence is the one they spoil in one of the latest trailers with Batman taking on those thugs.

 

[Timbuktu]

I think people were expecting a Marvel movie that is more action oriented and filled with cheesy jokes, and I'm happy we didn't get that.

I really don't think it's that. There is so much potential in there, even within the concept of where the movie wanted to explore, but the execution lets it down horribly. People were happy with the best of Marvel movies, they were happy with Deadpool, with Nolan's batman movies, they can like a big a hero Six and the Incredibles, they can even be happy with Trank when he did something decent like Chronicles. I don't think people in general have a closed mindset when it comes to superhero movies, people just want them to be done well.

I think the low RT score also reflect the level of disappointment rather than just its absolute quality, just considering what an opportunity this movie had.

 

[kswiston]

Because they're not in the Justice League.

Batman's Email to Wonder Woman should have been titled "Justice League in 2017. Let's do this!"

 

[exmachina64]

'Twas Granny Goodness that made him insane methinks.

That would be awesome if that was the case.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I'm reading everywhere how the action is incredible, that it is a beautiful shot but big dumb movie, etc.
But that it is dark, gloomy, strange, the character's do things they don't usually do (batman killing, etc.).
Looks like people didn't like the general way this was written. So does this mean people don't like Chris Terrio's work since he's rewritten this thing?

It's kind of interesting how everyone blames Snyder for the story. He doesn't even get writer's credit in the movie opening credits as far as I recall.

Some people were implying everyone would praise Terrio if the movie turned out great, but would blame Snyder if it didn't, I dismissed them at first, but it is eery.
Bronson Lee may in fact be right, critics hate Snyder no matter what he does. lol

If Snyder had a had in greenlighting which scenes go where, what plot points stayed and were cut, then I absolutely place the blame on him.

 

[Alienous]

Just considering the Dark Knight Returns references, this is Snyder's vision for the movie. He didn't just direct a script he was given.

 

[kyser73]

But he didn't kill Clark once he was humanized to him, that's the point. He didn't think of Superman as a person before that, rather a creature or monster ("you aren't a god and you were never a man!").

It's also the idea that it is two humans who ultimately decided Supes' fate. Here's this god-like being bought low by one human and saved by the intervention of another about something as simple as parentage.

I really enjoyed BvS.

 

[duckroll]

Batman's Email to Wonder Woman should have been titled "Justice League in 2017. Let's do this!"

"Who are you?"

"Let's meet @ our special place."

"Justice + League = ?"

 

[FunnyBunny]

Question: the bat symbol brand is stupid, but why is it a "death sentence" for captured criminals?

Wouldn't surviving a savage takedown by the Bat be a mark of honor for criminals? The film never establishes why the brand is a bad thing for inmates.

 

[WrenchNinja]

Again, people arguing about this are projecting the status quo onto this older Batman. When Affleck was approached, he rejected the chance to play Batman - he didn't think the character was for him. But Snyder pitched a different character - a changed one, that had lost his "moral compass."

Batman loses his moral compass all the time in comics. That doesn't turn him into a complete killer. It makes him more paranoid and violent but never enough to break his vows. Snyder would know this if he actually read a comic in his life instead of looking at the pretty pictures.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

Question: the bat symbol brand is stupid, but why is it a "death sentence" for captured criminals?

Wouldn't surviving a savage takedown by the Bat be a mark of honor for criminals? The film never establishes why the brand is a bad thing for inmates.

It's assumed that the brand goes on rapists and sex traffickers, who are assumed to be frowned upon.

 

[Sadist]

Well wasn't The Dark Knight trilogy the same?

Not in the slightest.

Felt like the actors were having fun in the Nolan trilogy. BvS? Not really.

 

[kswiston]

Question: the bat symbol brand is stupid, but why is it a "death sentence" for captured criminals?

Wouldn't surviving a savage takedown by the Bat be a mark of honor for criminals? The film never establishes why the brand is a bad thing for inmates.

I think the insinuation is that he only brands the worst people. Like, the dudes from the beginning were sex traffickers. Criminals try to kill more vile criminals in jail in reality, so that part didn't seem super far fetched.

 

[duckroll]

I want to point out something really funny about Snyder's vision of parenting in the DC films. It was something I mentioned in the DC Community Thread the other day about how Pa Kent's "maybe" response to "what should I have done, just let them die?" in Man of Steel. It bothered me because while it might have been a human moment of weakness for Pa Kent, just having that in the movie says something, and it's not positive.

Now in BvS, we have Batman saying some pretty amazing shit about HIS parents. First, to justify his suicidal crusade against Superman, he reminds Alfred that his father taught him that the first generation of Waynes weren't industrialists, they were HUNTERS. Okay, that's actually a pretty good scene on its own, but the funny part is how it leads into what he says later when he's really fucking Superman up. YOU KNOW WHAT MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME? DIE IN A GUTTER FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT TO. He might just be saying this out of a moment of rage, but to say that about his parents who he loved so much, that they taught him nothing positive about self worth... that's pretty amazing.

 

[FunnyBunny]

It's assumed that the brand goes on rapists and sex traffickers, who are assumed to be frowned upon.

That's plausible. Thanks!

Another observation: how a Senate hearing takes place about the mess in Africa takes place BEFORE Lois gets home is beyond me. But lost in the conversation of the witness — "There were so many bodies" — is the fact that Lois was there to interview a warlord. A terrorist.

These were not innocent villagers taken out by Luthor's men. But the Senate reacts as if Superman murdered a village of peace loving people.

So why did they care so much?

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

Has this been mentioned. What about the other metahumans like the Enchantress, killer Croc, and el diablo. Why doesn't lex have files on those guys?


Edit


Oh shit!!!

He has files on them, he just hasn't created cool logos for them yet.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

I want to point out something really funny about Snyder's vision of parenting in the DC films. It was something I mentioned in the DC Community Thread the other day about how Pa Kent's "maybe" response to "what should I have done, just let them die?" in Man of Steel. It bothered me because while it might have been a human moment of weakness for Pa Kent, just having that in the movie says something, and it's not positive.

Now in BvS, we have Batman saying some pretty amazing shit about HIS parents. First, to justify his suicidal crusade against Superman, he reminds Alfred that his father taught him that the first generation of Waynes weren't industrialists, they were HUNTERS. Okay, that's actually a pretty good scene on its own, but the funny part is how it leads into what he says later when he's really fucking Superman up. YOU KNOW WHAT MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME? DIE IN A GUTTER FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT TO. He might just be saying this out of a moment of rage, but to say that about his parents who he loved so much, that they taught him nothing positive about self worth... that's pretty amazing.

Glad I wasn't the only one baffled by both of those scenes, it also ties into the opening of the movie where Thomas Wayne makes a fist preparing to beat the gunner to death before being shot. This version of the Waynes makes them out to be super rich assholes. Thomas Wayne shouldn't be trying to beat a man to death, he should be trying to talk him down and deescalate the situation. And, if you point me to that stupid Flash story where Thomas Wayne survives and does beat Joe Chill to death I'll tell you to sit down and remember that it was a fucking "what if" story, not the reality of who the Waynes should be. The Waynes should be loving, kind people that cared deeply about the people of Gotham and tried to make it better. They should not be bitter assholes.

 

[FunnyBunny]

I want to point out something really funny about Snyder's vision of parenting in the DC films. It was something I mentioned in the DC Community Thread the other day about how Pa Kent's "maybe" response to "what should I have done, just let them die?" in Man of Steel. It bothered me because while it might have been a human moment of weakness for Pa Kent, just having that in the movie says something, and it's not positive.

Now in BvS, we have Batman saying some pretty amazing shit about HIS parents. First, to justify his suicidal crusade against Superman, he reminds Alfred that his father taught him that the first generation of Waynes weren't industrialists, they were HUNTERS. Okay, that's actually a pretty good scene on its own, but the funny part is how it leads into what he says later when he's really fucking Superman up. YOU KNOW WHAT MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME? DIE IN A GUTTER FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT TO. He might just be saying this out of a moment of rage, but to say that about his parents who he loved so much, that they taught him nothing positive about self worth... that's pretty amazing.

Wow.

That's insightful, and I hadn't thought of it. Thank you!

 

[duckroll]

That's plausible. Thanks!

Another observation: how a Senate hearing takes place about the mess in Africa takes place BEFORE Lois gets home is beyond me. But lost in the conversation of the witness — "There were so many bodies" — is the fact that Lois was there to interview a warlord. A terrorist.

These were not innocent villagers taken out by Luthor's men. But the Senate reacts as if Superman murdered a village of peace loving people.

So why did they care so much?

No, I think what happened was Superman flew in, took out the warlord, rescued Lois. When the reinforcements arrived and saw the warlord presumably dead or crippled or whatever, and all his men dead, they cleansed the nearby village in retaliation.

 

[Sibersk Esto]

I want to point out something really funny about Snyder's vision of parenting in the DC films. It was something I mentioned in the DC Community Thread the other day about how Pa Kent's "maybe" response to "what should I have done, just let them die?" in Man of Steel. It bothered me because while it might have been a human moment of weakness for Pa Kent, just having that in the movie says something, and it's not positive.

Now in BvS, we have Batman saying some pretty amazing shit about HIS parents. First, to justify his suicidal crusade against Superman, he reminds Alfred that his father taught him that the first generation of Waynes weren't industrialists, they were HUNTERS. Okay, that's actually a pretty good scene on its own, but the funny part is how it leads into what he says later when he's really fucking Superman up. YOU KNOW WHAT MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME? DIE IN A GUTTER FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT TO. He might just be saying this out of a moment of rage, but to say that about his parents who he loved so much, that they taught him nothing positive about self worth... that's pretty amazing.

MY PARENTS

ARE

DEADDDDDDDDDD

 

[TheSlySoul]

Glad I wasn't the only one baffled by both of those scenes, it also ties into the opening of the movie where Thomas Wayne makes a fist preparing to beat the gunner to death before being shot. This version of the Waynes makes them out to be super rich assholes.

Most likely, seems like Alfred is more of a parent than his actual parents.
It is an interesting take on the family heir.

 

[Haloid1177]

Now in BvS, we have Batman saying some pretty amazing shit about HIS parents. First, to justify his suicidal crusade against Superman, he reminds Alfred that his father taught him that the first generation of Waynes weren't industrialists, they were HUNTERS. Okay, that's actually a pretty good scene on its own, but the funny part is how it leads into what he says later when he's really fucking Superman up. YOU KNOW WHAT MY PARENTS TAUGHT ME? DIE IN A GUTTER FOR NO REASON AT ALL. IF YOU WANT TO MAKE SENSE OF THE WORLD, YOU HAVE TO FORCE IT TO. He might just be saying this out of a moment of rage, but to say that about his parents who he loved so much, that they taught him nothing positive about self worth... that's pretty amazing.

I took that as what Bruce learned from their death and how pointless it was, not that his parents actually told him that.

I'm seeing it again now. I liked and another friend wanted to see it so I'm excited to see if it holds up.

 

[JB1981]

I don't read that scene that way at all. He's talking about how his parents death shaped his view of the world and that if you want to survive, if you want to make things right you have to take things into your own hands and bend the world to your will. I think he's very clearly talking about their senseless n random death, not a value system they personally instilled in him

 

[Firemind]

The "I believe you" scene was Batman jumping to using a gun, not killing. One step closer to doing it, as the story builds up to him breaking his rule for the Joker (which even then he doesn't quite do). You can interpret it as him shooting the hostage taking mutant gang member in the head, but there's no bullet would in the head, and the rest of the story doesn't acknowledge this murder or manslaughter (the police charge Batman with everything they can, and those charges aren't included).

He basically kills the Joker by twisting his neck. I don't see how much different it is in the movie where he shoots the gas container and shields Martha from the impending explosion. It's not like he shoots the Russian in his head.

Bruce Wayne isn't really a playboy, Snyder. It's an act. He doesn't go to parties and chase women around.

Now you can do that, but explain. In The Dark Knight Returns Batman retires. He starts drinking. He probably leans into being a playboy. But that's because he's no longer Batman.

You can't be Batman with a hangover. What happened to this Batman? He's been active for 20 years but is the 'bat-vigilante' with a Bat-Signal? Batman's like an athlete where every night is a match; how is he bedding women and going out every night to fight crime? Is he going out every night? Semi-retired?

I don't know what the fuck is going on with that character. It's acted well, but I don't know who he is.

You're really starting to reach here. He goes to parties as Bruce to investigate. He and Alfred even had a conversation about it. Alfred's wine comment should be taken as a joke; Bruce isn't actually drinking his entire wine cellar, which by the way is another TDRK reference. Where is he bedding women? I like that he isn't Batman every night prowling the rooftops for criminals. That is just stupid. He sometimes chills in his cave, doing computer work, working on his inventions or just plain working out.

Question: the bat symbol brand is stupid, but why is it a "death sentence" for captured criminals?

Wouldn't surviving a savage takedown by the Bat be a mark of honor for criminals? The film never establishes why the brand is a bad thing for inmates.

omglol

 

[ghostwritingduck]

Can someone explain to me why Superman fought Batman instead of just saving his mom?

 

[Alienous]

How dare Snyder use the Death of Superman.

Not only does he fuck up Batman but he wastes one of the most significant comic book stories of all time. Fuck it I guess, just another toy in the toy box to play with. Have to get that casket on screen, I haven't appropriated enough iconic comic imagery yet for my one clusterfuck film.

Take a story line about the world reacting to the death of someone they collectively view as the superhero, and place it in a story about the world being generally weary of Superman.

Stop it, Snyder.

 

[Rastafarian42]

Alright after thinking about the film for some time here are my thoughts. Batman in this flick brehs :lawd: I need that Red Hood adaptation with Ben writing and directing ASAP. I enjoyed Lex quite a bit even though it is a bit off a departure from classic interpretations until the end. Superman was solid even though his dialogue was questionable at points. Wonder Woman ehhh she looked great but some of her line delivery was off but I look forward to her movie. I also agree with a poster sentiments about the way the knightmare scene was implemented was very poor . I will say even though weird and jarring the flash appearance after the nightmare was great IMO something that'd shock the shit outta of me in a comic. All in all, I'd give it a 7/10 I appreciate the ambitious scale of it and the dark tone it maintained. People seem to knock the DC films so far for their tone but me personally I appreciate the different palate in comparison to Marvel DC brings to the table. My biggest problems with it included the amount of content crammed into it specifically the Justice League stuff was a bit on the nose and a bit uneccesary (the folders with the logos) and The editing and pacing were inconsistent at times which broke up the flow of the film at times.

 

[duckroll]

I took that as what Bruce learned from their death and how pointless it was, not that his parents actually told him that.

I'm seeing it again now. I liked and another friend wanted to see it so I'm excited to see if it holds up.

Yes but he's contrasting it with his assumption that Superman's parents taught him that he was special and that he was here for a reason. It was about upbringing. So what he could essentially be saying is that by dying early, he feels his parents taught him nothing at all. Which is just as cynical.

 

[Sgt. Kabukiman]

He basically kills the Joker by twisting his neck. I don't see how much different it is in the movie where he shoots the gas container and shields Matha from the impending explosion. It's not like he shoots the Russian in his head.

The entire point of the scene in TDKR is that Batman stops himself from killing at the last second and the Joker is disappointed that he couldn't make him break his no-kill rule.

 

[Alandrus Sun]

He basically kills the Joker by twisting his neck. I don't see how much different it is in the movie where he shoots the gas container and shields Matha from the impending explosion. It's not like he shoots the Russian in his head.

Maybe I'm remembering that overrated Miller comic but from what I recall he snaps the Joker spine, paralyzing him. Even at the brink he refuses to break his one rule but goes up right to the edge to ensure the Joker can't harm anyone ever again. It's the Joker that snaps his own neck to frame Batman with his murder.