Should Rockstar's Next Game Have a Female Main Protagonist
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Messofanego
Banned
They already are plenty influenced by Tarantino and he's done badass women on film. Natural Born Killers, Kill Bill, Inglorious Basterds, The Hateful Eight. So not exactly hard to find a template to be inspired from.
How come we never see this arguement when they have a male character? Why must it only be justified if it is a female character? No one ever wonders if the male character was justified being male. I mean for all you know many games have a male character because the marketers feel it sells better (and I'm willing to bet at least some are. We already know marketers have pushed before for a male to be first on the cover and we even recently had a story where they insisted the character be a white male cause it sold better). In fact that is another argument for why have male characters, they sell better and that's just the way it is. So why is it ok that they make it male cause it sells better but it's not ok to make it female because they want to be more inclusive to females?
Manabanana
Member
The wording is fairly important, as "should" isn't gauging interest as much as it's polling people on whether they agree with an idea you had.
Rockstar like variety, it's probably a natural step for them to continue branching out in their future projects. I'm indifferent, but they tend to make good decisions for their projects, so whatever direction they follow, it'll probably be worth checking out.
i'm not going to like or dislike a Rockstar made game more or less because they have a female or male protagonist. that's a stupid question. i will like it if it is a good game, if it's bad i will dislike it.
the better question is would having a female protagonist affect your opinion towards a well made rockstar game - the answer for anyone who isn't a fool is no, it won't. yeah, it'd be cool as fuck to have a game with a female lead developed by someone like rockstar because of the quality of game they make. why? because there really aren't enough female leads in games. but i'm not just going to like and buy a rockstar game just because of a female protagonist
the better question is would having a female protagonist affect your opinion towards a well made rockstar game - the answer for anyone who isn't a fool is no, it won't. yeah, it'd be cool as fuck to have a game with a female lead developed by someone like rockstar because of the quality of game they make. why? because there really aren't enough female leads in games. but i'm not just going to like and buy a rockstar game just because of a female protagonist
Yabberwocky
Member
It's great to see all the awesome comments in this thread. (Female Trevor-esque character when, Rockstar.) On the other hand, I always find it extremely baffling when people are concerned about adding POC/LGBTA/ women into games being 'pandering'. Oh-no, what happens if they're making a game in a magical backwards universe where women can't possibly have a role that make sense? Heaven forbid creators have to make changes!
Congratulations, welcome to the entertainment industry, where it's rare that creators get to make content 100% the way they want. When you have to answer to someone, there is no true creative freedom, and it's probably been that way since Krog 1 punched Krog 2 over a rock painting. The perpetual concern re: female protagonists is insanely ironic, I've never heard of an example of 'oh, well, we wanted to make the lead a male, but they forced us, kicking and screaming, to change it to female character against our own will'. In comparison, the magnitude of examples of protagonists/supporting characters changed to be generic heterosexual male in film/television/video games is incredibly depressing. So, if you're so worried about pandering and creators losing their freedom... too late, that's how it already works. It's not always fair. It's amazing how concerned everyone suddenly becomes about creative freedom when it comes to the possibility of a more diverse lead, or having less sexualised female characters!
Anyway, getting pushed out of your creative comfort zone can end up having extremely beneficial results. Anthony Burch tells a great example of this, where Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel was originally going to have three male playable characters and one female character. They thought it might be cool to have two men* and two women, and landed on Athena, from the original Borderlands' DLC. In choosing Athena, it then lead to them having a framing device for TPS, and it brought the game's story together. In turn, this ended up being set-up for BL3, and gave Athena a huge part to play in Tales from the Borderlands. All of this was just from deciding to have equal gender balance in player choices. On a side-note, after much back and forth, they chose to make Athena the automatic default character choice in character selection in TPS. She's the most played TPS character, and one that nearly didn't get used to begin with.
So, yes, pandering with a female protagonist? We should be so lucky! (Also, if I ever type the word 'pandering' again, I think my fingers will fall off my hand in protest.)
*Well, a man and Claptrap.
Exactly, thank you!
Congratulations, welcome to the entertainment industry, where it's rare that creators get to make content 100% the way they want. When you have to answer to someone, there is no true creative freedom, and it's probably been that way since Krog 1 punched Krog 2 over a rock painting. The perpetual concern re: female protagonists is insanely ironic, I've never heard of an example of 'oh, well, we wanted to make the lead a male, but they forced us, kicking and screaming, to change it to female character against our own will'. In comparison, the magnitude of examples of protagonists/supporting characters changed to be generic heterosexual male in film/television/video games is incredibly depressing. So, if you're so worried about pandering and creators losing their freedom... too late, that's how it already works. It's not always fair. It's amazing how concerned everyone suddenly becomes about creative freedom when it comes to the possibility of a more diverse lead, or having less sexualised female characters!
Anyway, getting pushed out of your creative comfort zone can end up having extremely beneficial results. Anthony Burch tells a great example of this, where Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel was originally going to have three male playable characters and one female character. They thought it might be cool to have two men* and two women, and landed on Athena, from the original Borderlands' DLC. In choosing Athena, it then lead to them having a framing device for TPS, and it brought the game's story together. In turn, this ended up being set-up for BL3, and gave Athena a huge part to play in Tales from the Borderlands. All of this was just from deciding to have equal gender balance in player choices. On a side-note, after much back and forth, they chose to make Athena the automatic default character choice in character selection in TPS. She's the most played TPS character, and one that nearly didn't get used to begin with.
So, yes, pandering with a female protagonist? We should be so lucky! (Also, if I ever type the word 'pandering' again, I think my fingers will fall off my hand in protest.)
*Well, a man and Claptrap.
Exactly, thank you!
GTA not so much but you hit it. Red Dead would be perfect. Characters based on Pearl Hart https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4ByFa9WXQo or Annie Oakley or Etta or some hybrid would be great.
A lot of people seem to be getting needlessly hung up on the OP's use of the word "should", as they appeared to be presenting a hypothetical, rather than suggesting that they were in any way obligated to comply.
Speaking to the subject in general, not Rockstar specifically (I have no real attachment to their work in particular), I find it strange how female characters in games, especially leads, need to "make sense" when no such second-guessing is applied to going with male characters. It's also odd that having a female protagonist is viewed as something that necessarily has to be the result of being politically motivated, rather than just a creative decision the same as anything else that goes into a story.
At the same time, however, I'm also not oblivious to the industry being largely risk averse in respect to the sorts of characters they prefer to make front and center, and certain segments of consumers can be just as close-minded about what they're willing to accept. No amount of justifying less conventional choices is likely to get people set in their ways to step out of their comfort zones, yet that doesn't mean that developers shouldn't be free to make their games as they envision them when possible (ideally, anyway).
Speaking to the subject in general, not Rockstar specifically (I have no real attachment to their work in particular), I find it strange how female characters in games, especially leads, need to "make sense" when no such second-guessing is applied to going with male characters. It's also odd that having a female protagonist is viewed as something that necessarily has to be the result of being politically motivated, rather than just a creative decision the same as anything else that goes into a story.
At the same time, however, I'm also not oblivious to the industry being largely risk averse in respect to the sorts of characters they prefer to make front and center, and certain segments of consumers can be just as close-minded about what they're willing to accept. No amount of justifying less conventional choices is likely to get people set in their ways to step out of their comfort zones, yet that doesn't mean that developers shouldn't be free to make their games as they envision them when possible (ideally, anyway).
Indeed. By comparison, no one ever concludes that focusing on male characters comes across as "forced".
AzureFlame
Member
Not in GTA, definitely not in GTA.
Messofanego
Banned
Not sales, but reactions will still be a thing. Oh man it was fun seeing GAF's reaction to San Andreas having a black protagonist when it was announced!
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=820 "can't relate" XD
Oh wait, times haven't changed. Some GAFers were having a fit over Mafia 3 not having Italian Americans and "not Mafia"
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=174248058#post174248058 (start from here)
They even start referencing that the thread reminding them of the GTA SA reveal thread XD
I didn't know I wanted this until now, would make for some interesting scenarios.
I think it'd be cool to have a Snoop-eque (as in from the Wire) character. I think they did a pretty good non player female character in 5, and I wouldn't mind at all if that was the protagonist. Regardless, they should have multiple characters as in 5 and some being female would not be a horrible idea at all.
Peotical Injection
Member
Don't care if its male or female, as long as the character is good.
the_batman
Banned
only if we still get to change and try on a ton of outfits :3
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I'd rather the game be about Trevor, Michael, and Franklin again and try to build a series arc for a first time in the series.
But really, whatever sparks the Rockstar creative vision and motivates the team to make a great game is really what I'd say should be the case.
That said, yeah, sure I have my preferences... Trevor Philips a la Heat's Waingro meets the drug kingpin from Miami Vice.
But really, whatever sparks the Rockstar creative vision and motivates the team to make a great game is really what I'd say should be the case.
That said, yeah, sure I have my preferences... Trevor Philips a la Heat's Waingro meets the drug kingpin from Miami Vice.
Langdon Alger
Banned
There's no doubt in my mind that their next game will have multiple protagonists and that one of them will be a woman.
Screaming Meat
Unconfirmed Member
Yes, they should. Her name is Mona Sax.
Gnome Scat
Member
Sold.
family_guy
Member
I want Bully 2 aka Mean Girls: The Video Game 110% more, but fine, I'll go with the flow (because Red Dead is what my sad, dumbass is getting).
This should be the protagonist of Red Dead 3.
Let me be a lady desperado and hog-tie motherfuckers with my whip.
Red Dead 2 should make you a female Zorro.
Doctor Rover
Member
I got an idea to go along with this,
Grandmother steals automobile to gun down local mafia in London.
What do you think we need to do to get a Grandma Protagonist?
Grandmother steals automobile to gun down local mafia in London.
What do you think we need to do to get a Grandma Protagonist?
This. The idea is nice until you realize the execution would be terrible.
brokenbeans
Banned
I do, a crazy Hispanic girl would fit.
You just gave me a great idea for the next Red Dead protagonist.
- The physicality and demeanor of the Boss from Metal Gear
+
- The ethnicity, wit, and equipment of Zorro
BAM. Fucking make it happen, Rockstar.
Flintty
Member
I think they should go crazy and have...
1) Female lead character
2) GTA type game but you're a rookie cop
3) Progression through the ranks based on your point scoring from banging up bad guys, solving crimes (Captain, Detective, maybe working up to FBI or preferably based in UK and going to New Scotland Yard). Or if it suits you...
4) Progression through corruption, working with criminals, taking bribes, killing off witnesses as part of an underground crime syndicate where half the police are bought off (Person of Interest or Daredevil style).
I'd play the shit out of this.
1) Female lead character
2) GTA type game but you're a rookie cop
3) Progression through the ranks based on your point scoring from banging up bad guys, solving crimes (Captain, Detective, maybe working up to FBI or preferably based in UK and going to New Scotland Yard). Or if it suits you...
4) Progression through corruption, working with criminals, taking bribes, killing off witnesses as part of an underground crime syndicate where half the police are bought off (Person of Interest or Daredevil style).
I'd play the shit out of this.
tintin1029
Member
As a straight white male, this is what I want.
OfficerZap
Neo Member
If they can make a great story? Sure.
Are they capable of making a great story? Can't see why not.
Are they capable of making a great story? Can't see why not.
The Horror the horror
Banned
Nostalgia and familiarity sell more. GTA isn't leaving America.
tintin1029
Member
Being a criminal psycopath that murders hundreds of prostitutes a day, sure I can relate to that. But I'm a women?! Fuck that, I can't relate.
For real though.
The idea that "I can't relate to a character" because of their race, gender, sexuality, age, or whatever is the absolute shallowest/dumbest argument.
johnnydrama
Banned
Sure. I love a good female protagonist.
tintin1029
Member
It needs to stay in America, though. 90% of it's narrative is based around how dumb Americans are.
It'd be like having a Fallout game take place somewhere else, it might as well not be Fallout.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
But it's totally OK to write a male character just for the sake of a male character, or for any reason, right?
Women have to earn their spot!
The Cretan
Member
That's not what he said.
edti: I want a female protagonist, along with a dirty cop and maybe another criminal.
People didn't buy W101, Bayonetta, Nier, etc.
tintin1029
Member
But they're not there just for the sake of it, though.
There uhhhh. There uhhhhhhmmmm..... Shit.
How would a main female protaganist not "make sense" for a story?
BumblebeeCody
Member
Pretty much this. I wouldn't care if it made sense for the story rather than having a female protagonist.....though we aren't mature enough yet to handle a female lead in GTA.
True but there are other points to factor in. All 3 of them are of the hack 'n' slash/spectacle fighter genre and that is a small player base within gaming.
Ascenion
Member
Twisting words a bit here aren't we? I'd like to think most characters start as a faceless, sexless idea. What the character does and how they function are first. How does this character need to act? How will they handle certain circumstances? After you have that I imagine you run through concept art or tell these ideas to an artist and see what they come up with. Kinda like Nadine in UC4. I don't think anyone says straight up this character has to be male or female.
tintin1029
Member
You'd be surprised.