It's not even really average, it's well below that. Average is more like between 70-80. Look how rare it is for a game to score between 1 and 5. Nothing about "Bottom 13%" says "average".
Mighty No. 9 review thread
- Thread starter Enter the Dragon Punch
- Start date
It's not even really average, it's well below that. Average is more like between 70-80. Look how rare it is for a game to score between 1 and 5. Nothing about "Bottom 13%" says "average".
ShockingAlberto
Member
It's especially weird because that's not a problem Inti-Creates has had in the past. I wonder if there has been staff turnover or, more likely, they just had insane constraints/too much on their plate due to (I sound like a broken record now) poor management.
Jacksinthe
Banned
Don't confuse the crowdfunding campaign with what was promised for the price. Running a KS campaign isn't making a video game. Not even remotely comparable.
The red flags were there day 1.
I literally just explained this in the post you quoted :|
POST OF THE YEAR
I like how it's now a foregone conclusion in this thread that the platform stretch goals (and especially the 3DS goal) are at least partly to blame for this falling short of expectations. Not that I disagree, I fully agree.
But when I posted about not really being all that excited for the Bloodstained Vita stretch goal to be reached quite a few posters were very angry -- and seemed to assume it's because I hate their platform (the only handheld I bought at launch!) and not because I want the best possible game to be made.
But when I posted about not really being all that excited for the Bloodstained Vita stretch goal to be reached quite a few posters were very angry -- and seemed to assume it's because I hate their platform (the only handheld I bought at launch!) and not because I want the best possible game to be made.
I believe 8-4 play was running the KS campaign.
brandonh83
Banned
People are so weird.
Some people have no idea of software development, or project scope and feature creep definitions. It's normal that they hate people that go against what, sounds a magnificent goal on paper.
The fan comics are killing me LOL
Eh I'm not a fan of this image. There are a lot of hidden costs that aren't present in this image - basically all those games cost more than those listed prices. For example it doesn't account for the fact that Yacht Club games had work for 5 months sans pay to finish the initial release because they ran out of KS money.
????
The transformations are in the game. They are what Beck transforms into when he uses the bosses special powers. Is there something else, some other transformations, you're talking about or are you talking out of your bum?
Eh I'm not a fan of this image. There are a lot of hidden costs that aren't present in this image - basically all those games cost more than those listed prices. For example it doesn't account for the fact that Yacht Club games had work for 5 months sans pay to finish the initial release because they ran out of KS money.
????
The transformations are in the game. They are what Beck transforms into when he uses the bosses special powers. Is there something else, some other transformations, you're talking about or are you talking out of your bum?
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
Fuckkkkkkkk
RedAssedApe
Banned
Ouch
3D has nothing to do with how this game looks.
This is 3D in 2016.....
GGXrd also has a way bigger budget than MN9 and every frame of animation is tweaked by hand which is far from the norm.
A better comparison would be Bloodstained, which still looks leagues better than MN9 despite having a similar budget and 3D visuals.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lAL07Pbqx3c
OmegaDL50
Member
There is a difference between a separate studio handling porting duties and the main development studio using the lowest specced hardware platform as a baseline to work around however.
It's been stated since day one that Iga specific wants to focus strictly on the PC / PS4 / and XB1 versions of the game and it's up to Armature to do whatever for the Wii U and Vita versions.
The playable build at E3 was solid, a far cry beyond what the final result that Mn9 turned into.
This is weird for me to ask but..people that played the Bloodstained demo at E3 says it's similar to SOTN. Does Mn9 resemble any of the previous Mega Man games is there a stark difference here?
Reposting from previous page.
Xrd actually had a relatively small budget. Even crazier it was from a staff of 25 members.
http://www.siliconera.com/2014/08/18/discussing-guilty-gear-xrd-signs-tech-daisuke-ishiwatari/
Pureauthor
Member
The initial pitch was that Beck would gain transformations from every (or almost every) enemy in the game, not just bosses.
3D has nothing to do with how this game looks.
This is 3D in 2016.....
What could have been...
Father_Brain
Banned
I'm talking about Beck's body changing shape into tank treads, a giant hammer, etc., per the original concept art.
The final game does have a mechanic called "transformation," but AFAIK, Beck's body stays the same shape and it doesn't function very differently from the weapon selection in Mega Man. Someone correct me if I'm wrong,
A lot of people really have no idea how game development works and how much it really costs.
Thankfully Iga's team has the right idea by having Armature focus on Wii U/Vita while the main team focuses on PC/PS4/XBO as the target platforms.
With MN9 you have PC, Mac, Linux, 360, PS3, Wii U, PS4 and XBO all getting the same game. That's not going to happen without sacrifices.
A "limited budget" could mean anything, though. Are there actual numbers anywhere?
Still, my point is that you can't expect all 3d visuals to look as good as GGXrd. The dudes are Arc are magicians.
SargerusBR
I love Pokken!
JESUS
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
I have zero experience developing games so perhaps what was initially promised for the price was unreasonable and I didn't see it. I remember the biggest concern to me at the time was the number of platforms. Online play may have been a red flag as well but I took the developers' word that this was feasible. As far as the other stretch goals most of them were along the lines of an additional level, boss or playable character, nothing out of the ordinary for this kind of Kickstarter.
Edit: I re read your last post, and I think it would be very educating if you could go into some more detail about what these red flags where that are too many to mention and were obvious from the very start. What was it that made this game stand out to you as a bad investment compared to projects like Bloodstained or Yuka Laylee etc?
Remember that most of us are not developers so perhaps things that are obvious to you aren't to us.
Yea with 25 people and a 2 year dev time XRD probably cost about 6 million or so, pretty damn reasonable given the quality of the game.
literally spilt my drink on myself, brutal
I do agree with the point you're making about more systems stretching the budget out, but the 3DS is significantly weaker than the Vita, right?
Probably lower then 6 million, i don't think everybody at team gain 100k per year.
Magnificent goals are also likely ones that require far more effort. A, say, PC stretch goal seems fairly mundane, while PS4/XB1 is more "well, wasn't it being developed with PC hardware in mind anyway? And those systems are just the same as low-mid range? For a game that isn't expected to be a graphical power house?" But Vita and 3DS are such dramatic downscalings that it really calls into question how worthwhile it is if you stop to think about it.
Probably also why it's good to have it outsourced because that's less time and effort on the main developers part to be worrying about that crap. Too bad MN9 may've figured that out too late.
I don't remember this but if someone has an official link with that info I'll eat crow. I mean the treads thing for example got incorporated into Beck's Mighty No. 4 transformation so maybe that earlier concept you were referring to was always a WIP idea?
I'd argue its more a strong hypothesis that's difficult to falsify given the info we have rather than a foregone conclusion. At the same time I'd also argue there are enough differences between what's going on with BS and what went on with MN9 (to say nothing of the fact that plenty games have been released for weaker platforms that have had no demonstrable negative effect on the high power platform versions) that I'm inclined to have cause for alarm at this time.
Nintendoga
Member
I honestly don't buy that's the reason why this game turned out badly. It doesn't make a lot of sense to develop a game that way and if they did do that it's a piss poor management decision.
Having said that the amount of hate you got and the jumps to conclusions in that thread were ridiculous (and honestly I think it was amplified because of who you are as well). I personally don't think it's an issue, or more accurately it really shouldn't be, but the concern was certainly legitimate enough to warrant civil discussion.
i wonder when i will get my backer code. forget the quality of the game, thats a risk i have to take when i support a kickstarter project.
but the real fuck-up during this ks campaign/project, is the absolute lack of communication with the backers. everytime the game was delayed, backers found out last. when will backers get their dl codes? nope, nothing. and god knows when my physical rewards will show up (if ever...).
but the real fuck-up during this ks campaign/project, is the absolute lack of communication with the backers. everytime the game was delayed, backers found out last. when will backers get their dl codes? nope, nothing. and god knows when my physical rewards will show up (if ever...).
It's not even the concept art, look at this demo video released by Inti Creates during the Kickstarter. It took them seven days to complete.
I have a feeling Inti Creates wanted to stick close to the gameplay present in the above .gif, but Inafune wanted to mix things about (with the dashing, score system, etc.), hence the monstrosity we received. Of course we'll likely never know exactly what went wrong with MN9...
I'm curious. is this level and enemies are still in the final build of the game?
Well I was going off $10k per month per employee which covers salary, benefits, and other random office costs (coffee, utilities, etc).
Robert at Zeboyd Games
Banned
3DS is significantly weaker than the Vita and the Vita is significantly weaker than every other modern platform.
Ludger Kresnik
Member
As a game, Nier is actually pretty busted. It's the experience it provides that's one of a kind, and it'll take more than the average reviewer's single playthrough to understand why.
MN9 just seems bland and forgettable.
SAVAGE
FleetingFlowAir
Member
Yikes. That's even worse, then. I usually consider 50-60 scores as average.
This is fucking great!
Kurt Russell
Member
Average would be 50-60%. Saying that average is 70-80% makes no sense to me.
There's a crapton of great games that got 70-80 metascore (Wolf TNO comes to mind, for example)
Crimsonclaw111
Member
50-60 would be the average if reviewers used the whole point system. They seem to exclusively use the American system where a 70 percent is an average and anything at 60 is below average, and 59 percent or lower is failing.
oneofthose
Banned
I knew this game as soon as i saw it being aimed at western audiences was going to be trash. Inafune has such a boner for western development, he was the main reason capcom turned crap last gen with his vision of getting outsourced and have western guys take on their big franchises. But people blamed Capcom and saw Inafune as a victim when he left.
Solrac
Member
well that looks pretty much like castlevania psp which i dont like it one bit...
What would have even been the budget for GGXrd?
It is. If they had announced a 3DS port of Bloodstained I'd probably have pulled my pledge. I also agree that it's better to have an external, separate porting project than handling a huge number of platforms in house.
My point was simply that the idea of additional ports -- most crucially, additional ports to relatively limited platforms -- seems to be viewed with a far more balanced perspective in this thread than back during that other discussion. And maybe we can learn something from that for future discussions.
diffusionx
Gold Member
Well, this thread is burying the game, whereas the Bloodstained one was just hype. I know I've expressed doubts at platform stretch goals with Bloodstained. The fact that a Wii U Bloodstained is coming out next year is nuts.
If I had to guess I would say it would go exactly the same as it did before.
He recovered from Yaiba, he can recover from anything.
